Treaty United

[Lim till i die]

That's the same company that was involved with the takeover talks at Cabinteely a few months ago.

They actually tried Limerick first but couldn't come to an agreement on the valuation (presumably paud for some reason thought it was greater than zero)

The coach at the head of it basically comes across as a bit of a head the ball who buys clubs so he can manage them.

Which brings me to a curious detail.

The company is apparently registered in cork.

The homebase of beloved ex Limerick owner and sometimes manager Daniel Drew.

The same Daniel Drew who has been helping paud with his underage team expenses this year.

And now we have apparent word of two expressions of interest in the first division from Limerick

The thick plottens.

[GUFCghost]

Let's face it. There's nowhere that isn't currently in the league that's going to have decent support. These teams be no worse supported than some of the teams already there. Some of the teams in the NI Championship have little support but their league is improving. Good to see St Francis looking to get back in. Until there is a proper pyramid structure this is as good as we're going to get

That's just straight pessimism.
The league has been neglected for years now. With a bit of planning and consideration there's no reason we can't have a strong first division. The long term aim should be a division with no amateur teams

[thebronze14]

That's just straight pessimism.
The league has been neglected for years now. With a bit of planning and consideration there's no reason we can't have a strong first division. The long term aim should be a division with no amateur teams
That would be brilliant but you're right I am pessimistic. Sadly Irish people seem to just jump aboard the bandwagon and without future attitudal shifts sadly this will prevail. Letting a couple of extra teams with little fanbase in isn't going to harm the league longterm I'd say as long as they are sustainable in whatever model they go with

[Dr. football]

Its not that a fan base matters as such in the short term, but long term survival definitely yes.

Plus its fans that make the league the league, so anyways to add a new group is always welcomed. If they have no fan base, it's much more like a junior team playing LOI.

Of course you cant expect any team to start in LOI to suddenly have fans. Its a long game, over generation or so. Hopefully clubs get tsupport to develop a fan base.


That’s may point really, let them try start if it don’t work out noting lost!

[da bishop]

Whats with the names ,Yola fc,Treaty utd more like a gymnastic and basketball teams .are supporters going to identify with those names ,dont think so.

[Eminence Grise]

YOLA.

You Only Live ... Again?

Perfect name for half the clubs in the league, in fairness.

(And yes, I know Yola's a dialect. Can't throw a stone over a wall in some parts of Wexford without hitting a distant cousin.)

[nigel-harps1954]

These Irish Sea FC lads are involved in Dublin anyway, and are going to be revealing their club crest in the next couple of days..with a Dublin landmark.

What's the bets we see a Dublin City FC again out of Home Farm?

They're the same folks who own NJ Teamsters in the states, starting out in the third tier of American football next year.

[Nesta99]

These Irish Sea FC lads are involved in Dublin anyway, and are going to be revealing their club crest in the next couple of days..with a Dublin landmark.

What's the bets we see a Dublin City FC again out of Home Farm?

They're the same folks who own NJ Teamsters in the states, starting out in the third tier of American football next year.

Molly Malone statue?!

[EatYerGreens]

That would be brilliant but you're right I am pessimistic. Sadly Irish people seem to just jump aboard the bandwagon and without future attitudal shifts sadly this will prevail. Letting a couple of extra teams with little fanbase in isn't going to harm the league longterm I'd say as long as they are sustainable in whatever model they go with

But the point is - they never are sustainable. Kildare County, Sporting Fingal, St Francis, St James's Gate, Monaghan Town, Kilkenny City, NewcastleWest, Thurles Town, Home Farm, Mervue United, Salthill Devon etc etc etc. All joined the league, all had very limited support, and all ended up being unsustainable. The only clubs to join in the last 40 years that have remained in existence consistently are Derry, Cork, Bray and Longford. The first 3 all have large populations. And all 4 had a certain level of actual or potential support from within their community from before they joined to tap into (Longford had cup runs in the 1960s etc). Cobh is a great wee football town - but even they crashed out of the league for a few years because things just weren't working out.

And it's wrong to say that it doesn't harm the league when clubs join and fold, as it really does. It makes us look like a joke shop of a league and a financial mess. And it doubtless deters other clubs from joining when they see what a revolving door of failure the LOI is.

[passinginterest]

YOLA.

You Only Live ... Again?

Perfect name for half the clubs in the league, in fairness.

(And yes, I know Yola's a dialect. Can't throw a stone over a wall in some parts of Wexford without hitting a distant cousin.)

Haha, this is very true. As an example, I have a common south Wexford surname, in my primary school class of, I think, 22 students, 4 of us had the same surname, but I wasn't directly related to any of the other 3!

Going further off topic, I grew up in Yola country (even spent a childhood summer working in the Yola farmstead cafe), there's a lot of colloquialisms in South Wexford that come directly from the Yola dialect, I remember by Grandad and Great Grandad using a lot of them and some are still in common use today (quare being the most obvious example). South Wexford accent is still quite distinctive, closer to norther Irish than most other Southern accents, when we were away with the Youth Club at events wed regularly be asked what part of the north we were from.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yola_people
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forth_and_Bargy_dialect

Anyway, terrible name for a football club and will draw in zero extra support.

[redobit]

Kind of like the names Treaty and Yola. In fairness they aren't much worse than the Irish clichés like Shamrock and St. Patrick's.

[Mr A]

(And yes, I know Yola's a dialect. Can't throw a stone over a wall in some parts of Wexford without hitting a distant cousin.)

Then stop throwing the stones you mentalist!

[Dr. football]

But the point is - they never are sustainable. Kildare County, Sporting Fingal, St Francis, St James's Gate, Monaghan Town, Kilkenny City, NewcastleWest, Thurles Town, Home Farm, Mervue United, Salthill Devon etc etc etc. All joined the league, all had very limited support, and all ended up being unsustainable. The only clubs to join in the last 40 years that have remained in existence consistently are Derry, Cork, Bray and Longford. The first 3 all have large populations. And all 4 had a certain level of actual or potential support from within their community from before they joined to tap into (Longford had cup runs in the 1960s etc). Cobh is a great wee football town - but even they crashed out of the league for a few years because things just weren't working out.

And it's wrong to say that it doesn't harm the league when clubs join and fold, as it really does. It makes us look like a joke shop of a league and a financial mess. And it doubtless deters other clubs from joining when they see what a revolving door of failure the LOI is.

Cobh a small town with limited support, and this year with no fans at all has turned a profit!

It’s about how clubs are managed off the field if they fail or succeed! Cork city had min 2000 fans and high transfer fees received and still ran in to financial troubles!

Should be no reason a club can’t be a part time club in the 1st division playing games on a Saturday evening can’t break even every year.

[John83]

Can't throw a stone over a wall in some parts of Wexford without hitting a distant cousin.)
We get it, Wexfordians are inbred as hell.

[pineapple stu]

And that's before you consider the implications of Bástardstown and Horetown.

[sadloserkid]

To veer dangerously close to the original topic, I wouldn't be alone I'd say in having absolutely zero interest in supporting anything involving the ammoral, blithering POS who ran the previous iteration of the club into the ground.

It really is Treaty or bust for senior football in Limerick at the moment, the stench off the corpse of Limerick FC is gone beyond hiding.

[Kiki Balboa]

To veer dangerously close to the original topic, I wouldn't be alone I'd say in having absolutely zero interest in supporting anything involving the ammoral, blithering POS who ran the previous iteration of the club into the ground.

It really is Treaty or bust for senior football in Limerick at the moment, the stench off the corpse of Limerick FC is gone beyond hiding.

Who are the people behind Treaty United? Is it fans of the previous Limerick club, new investors or peple from a junior club looking to step up?

My guess is since Treaty United have a team in WNL (and a bit of buzz around them) they are in a prime position to enter the league.

[EatYerGreens]

Kind of like the names Treaty and Yola. In fairness they aren't much worse than the Irish clichés like Shamrock and St. Patrick's.

I've personally been surprised for years that there aren't major clubs in England named 'St George's Dragons' and 'Red Rose Rovers'.

[EatYerGreens]

Cobh a small town with limited support, and this year with no fans at all has turned a profit!

It’s about how clubs are managed off the field if they fail or succeed! Cork city had min 2000 fans and high transfer fees received and still ran in to financial troubles!

Should be no reason a club can’t be a part time club in the 1st division playing games on a Saturday evening can’t break even every year.

Have Cobh really completed their annual accounts already ? What sort of financial year do they run on ?

[Nesta99]

I've personally been surprised for years that there aren't major clubs in England named 'St George's Dragons' and 'Red Rose Rovers'.

or the Welsh with Leek United or Daffodil FC, Scots have form with Celtic, Hibs and a very slightly dyslexic mixed Irish-Scots effort with Partick Thistle. Dont know what Conn Murray is thinking being involved in this, though his time as County Manager of LouthCoCo and Limerick City wouldnt inspire! The people behind Treaty FC maybe waiting or hoping for Limerick FC to disappear and then rebrand!?

[sadloserkid]

Who are the people behind Treaty United? Is it fans of the previous Limerick club, new investors or peple from a junior club looking to step up?

My guess is since Treaty United have a team in WNL (and a bit of buzz around them) they are in a prime position to enter the league.

I believe (and I'm open to correction) that there's a few different minds behind Treaty United and that at least a couple of them expressed an interest in getting involved in the Limerick FC circus only to be turned off by the... eh... rancid smell of the whole organisation as it wound to collapse.

[El-Pietro]

I've personally been surprised for years that there aren't major clubs in England named 'St George's Dragons' and 'Red Rose Rovers'.

But there are teams like Arsenal, named for a munitions factory in Woolwich in South London and Crystal Palace, named for a giant green house that burned down twice.

[Eminence Grise]

Albion's about it as far as jingoistic names go in England. Hotspur. Plymouth Argyle apparently named for a Scottish regiment stationed there at one point. But, hey, don't go giving them any ideas ... We wouldn't be too far from Brighton Brexiteers, Rorke's Drift Rotherham, Stoke Spitfires...

[NeverFeltBetter]

The people behind Treaty FC maybe waiting or hoping for Limerick FC to disappear and then rebrand!?

I'd say that's exactly it. I see a lot of people getting hung up on the name, but it's not something I'd consider a dealbreaker.

[Lim till i die]

Treaty United were set up as a sort of lifeboat for people that were involved with Limerick FC before pat stopped paying people

The coaching staff from underage up to senior was basically copy pasted across from Limerick FC. Some good people, some people I don't know anything about and some people that I wouldn't have in the way personally.

At board level you've got Con Murray who might suprise me and be good for something but I doubt it, Dave mahedy is knocking around there somewhere which is good as it's a link to ul, a couple of fellas from the trust, various women's football people and a few people that I don't know who they are.

On the name they originally tried to call themselves Limerick United without checking who owned the name (it was Pat O'Sullivan) so in a panic it was changed to treaty United and they've been putting the word around the place that the reason is pat o sullivan owns the word Limerick. Which is of course complete and utter ****** designed to cover day ones mistake.

Which isn't a great start we're a half an hour out of Limerick FC and already the arse covering and spoof spreading begins.

I'm also skeptical enough because of some of the people still involved and the apparent complete lack of anyone with proper money.

But the first division is crap everyone gets a go at the playoffs and there's enough ex Limerick FC players knocking around the league that should come back for cheap.

It's going to be Tommy Barrett managing Tommy Barretts team in the first division.

Vive la revolution!!

[EatYerGreens]

But there are teams like Arsenal, named for a munitions factory in Woolwich in South London and Crystal Palace, named for a giant green house that burned down twice.

Crystal Palace and Arsenal aren't exactly English cultural clichés though. Shelbourne and Bohs have unusual names too, but they haven't been mentioned in this discussion - as neither of them are Irish clichés.

What Ireland really needs in a new club is AFC Leprauchan.

[Scrufil]

Crystal Palace and Arsenal aren't exactly English cultural clichés though. Shelbourne and Bohs have unusual names too, but they haven't been mentioned in this discussion - as neither of them are Irish clichés.

What Ireland really needs in a new club is AFC Leprauchan.

But Micheal D was Galway chairman...

[El-Pietro]

Crystal Palace and Arsenal aren't exactly English cultural clichés though. Shelbourne and Bohs have unusual names too, but they haven't been mentioned in this discussion - as neither of them are Irish clichés.

What Ireland really needs in a new club is AFC Leprauchan.
I dunno, England and war have tended to go hand in hand throughout history. I think extratime beat me to that joke by a couple of weeks though.

I also wish we would spend less time comparing ourselves to England. There are plenty of leagues out there to draw inspiration from, and we can continue to develop our own culture. I see no issue with names like Treaty United, even if it wouldn't be my first choice.

I'll develop an opinion on Irish Sea FC when we learn more about them, for now I am pessimistic about their potential for success.

[EatYerGreens]

I dunno, England and war have tended to go hand in hand throughout history. I think extratime beat me to that joke by a couple of weeks though.

I also wish we would spend less time comparing ourselves to England. There are plenty of leagues out there to draw inspiration from, and we can continue to develop our own culture. I see no issue with names like Treaty United, even if it wouldn't be my first choice.

I'll develop an opinion on Irish Sea FC when we learn more about them, for now I am pessimistic about their potential for success.

Treaty United sounds like the sort of name you'd find in a US Soccer team at the third or fourth tier there.

They will 100% change it to something else including Limerick. Guaranteed. It's just not a good name for Irish football.

[pineapple stu]

Is it really that important?

Dublin City was hardly a good name for Irish football either.

Though I do agree that if they are successful, they will change to Limerick something alright.

[EatYerGreens]

Is it really that important?

Dublin City was hardly a good name for Irish football either.

Though I do agree that if they are successful, they will change to Limerick something alright.

Are you really asking if branding is important ?

[pineapple stu]

Hmm. I mean, put that way, it's a fair point. But it's not as if all the Limerick names have really done the trick either. (Treaty United could always be worse of course)

[Nesta99]

Treaty United were set up as a sort of lifeboat for people that were involved with Limerick FC before pat stopped paying people

The coaching staff from underage up to senior was basically copy pasted across from Limerick FC. Some good people, some people I don't know anything about and some people that I wouldn't have in the way personally.

At board level you've got Con Murray who might suprise me and be good for something but I doubt it, Dave mahedy is knocking around there somewhere which is good as it's a link to ul, a couple of fellas from the trust, various women's football people and a few people that I don't know who they are.

On the name they originally tried to call themselves Limerick United without checking who owned the name (it was Pat O'Sullivan) so in a panic it was changed to treaty United and they've been putting the word around the place that the reason is pat o sullivan owns the word Limerick. Which is of course complete and utter ****** designed to cover day ones mistake.

Which isn't a great start we're a half an hour out of Limerick FC and already the arse covering and spoof spreading begins.

I'm also skeptical enough because of some of the people still involved and the apparent complete lack of anyone with proper money.

But the first division is crap everyone gets a go at the playoffs and there's enough ex Limerick FC players knocking around the league that should come back for cheap.

It's going to be Tommy Barrett managing Tommy Barretts team in the first division.

Vive la revolution!!

Conn Murray would be an accomplished administrator, a safe pair of hands for league applications. More a general secretary type role if needed on a board. But he is deeply rooted in in the older (though maybe not dead) Senior Public Servant ways of diving for cover, deflection, and some spin added without much thought given that people are not stupid and just accept what they are told by a board. LoI fans are particularly tuned in imo, hope for the best but expect the worst. That Murray has already fallen foul of that tactic?! as you say he may surprise. Maybe Limerick football needs the less eccentric or irrational type to rebuild even if potentially frustratingly slow making progress. Other people involved with Treaty may provide decisiveness and temper the spin.

[wonder88]

What do people consider more important, a reasonable support (fans) base or a good number of decent standard players available locally?
Important to remember that gate receipts would rarely cover 50% of the operating cost of even the successful in the league of Ireland.

[Nesta99]

Whatever it covers of operating costs, which will differ for clubs, it may not be too long before the various levels of financial impact attendances (rather than support imo as Irish fans are fickle) has on clubs. Not intending to be evasive but a balance I suppose, at minimum realistic budget if relying more on supporters than an owner who can cover losses. Decent available players and decent local players available is an old Dundalk and probably LoI nugget - a team of locals will get more support?! Not that Ive ever seen really in LoI as a winning team gets more support than an average or worse local team.

[EatYerGreens]

Hmm. I mean, put that way, it's a fair point. But it's not as if all the Limerick names have really done the trick either. (Treaty United could always be worse of course)

That suggests that Limerick fortunes in the LOI to-date have been dependent to some significant degree on naming, when other issues have been the source of their problems.

Treaty United would be a terrible name for the only senior football club in Ireland's fifth largest city. That is all.

[pineapple stu]

It would be a terrible name, I agree.

But I'm suggesting the "other issues" you hint at are much bigger factors than the name.

[El-Pietro]

What do people consider more important, a reasonable support (fans) base or a good number of decent standard players available locally?
Important to remember that gate receipts would rarely cover 50% of the operating cost of even the successful in the league of Ireland.

In the long-term, fanbase. Even if gates are only ~50%, other revenue streams with the exception of prize money and direct investment by an owner or owners are largely based on a teams captive audience. Sponsors are more likely to want to work with a team with a large supporter base all things being equal. Having decent players locally is an advantage but not having it is not a death-knell. The Galway region has produced a lot of quality players over the years without any success for Galway United. Sporting Fingal never had a huge fan base despite their early success and they had some incredible players in a league of Ireland context who went on to achieve great things throughout the league both domestically and in Europe. Some even went on to have careers outside Ireland. However as soon as funding was withdrawn they vanished.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Murray interview: https://www.extratime.com/articles/26109/treaty-united-chairman-conn-murray-we-want-to-build-a-sustainable-club-which-has-a-pathway-for-young-people-to-excel-at-whatever-level-they-can-in-terms-of-the-league-of-ireland/

Nothing much to see, mostly boilerplate. He does talk about the name thing, but not sure it'll assuage people.

[EatYerGreens]

What do people consider more important, a reasonable support (fans) base or a good number of decent standard players available locally?
Important to remember that gate receipts would rarely cover 50% of the operating cost of even the successful in the league of Ireland.

The most important thing for any football club at the top levels anywhere is finance. That is what makes or breaks clubs. And unless you have a wealthy owner happy to burn money (though even that never lasts) then the most essential ingredient influencing your finances will be support. Not just in terms of gate money - but also sponsorship, merchandise, volunteer base, attractiveness to players etc. Support is the bedrock of any successful football team, and without it no team will sustain success.

The standard of players locally will help you at junior and intermediate level, but is broadly irrelevant at a senior level. Because unless you can afford to keep them, those who are any good will invariably join a club who can pay them better. Even if they're technically 'amateurs', and particularly if they're good enough to be semi-pro. That's just the reality of sport.

With most people in Ireland turning their back on domestic football, support is therefore a percentages game - i.e. only a small percentage of your potential support will turn into actual fans. That is why catchment area/population is absolutely key in football generally, and Irish football in particular. There are a few exceptions - Sligo and Finn Harps in particular. But for every other club, if you're not based in a genuinely large town or city, you will struggle in the game. That's the bottom line.

The problem we have that underpins the revolving door of clubs in the LOI is three-fold in my opinion :

1) We have a small population and few genuinely large population centres that don't already have a football team.
2) Within that, we have very few towns or cities where football is genuinely the number one sport - thereby limiting potential appeal further.
3) We have a tendency of admitting to the LOI clubs who are really good at an intermediate level and who have nice facilities - regardless of where they're based. But that is just a recipe for failure IMO. It would be like being the best kid at football in a small town school, and turning up at university expecting to be made captain of the varsity squad. When in reality you find that for once you're actually at a level where you no longer stand out and are barely good enough to make the subs bench. Despite the fact that you have the latest boots, a great haircut and can somersault when you score. This is the approach that gave us the likes of Thurles Town, NewcastleWest, St Francis and Mervue United. Clubs that were great at a junior and intermediate level, but who realistically were always going to struggle to draw a crowd.

The problem with Point 3 above for me is that, if you accept it, it undermines the entire principle of a pyramid system in Irish football. Because it would just result in the league having more Salthill Devons and Merviue Uniteds (as it did the one time we did have more of a pyramid system). Big fish in small ponds who haven't got the where-with-all to survive when placed in the financial ocean that is the LOI.

In the Irish League, tiny clubs like Institute and Warrenpoint get to the top tier by virtue of the fact that the gap between intermediate and senior football there isn't all that big. They then add nothing to the top level in reality (no fans, no appeal etc), and in-effect help limit the top tier's growth and thereby sustain the narrow gap between the levels. It's a recipe for mediocrity and for the dominance of just a few longstanding clubs (who can create their own financial weather).

[pineapple stu]

A pyramid system operates and works in literally every other country in Europe. Why do you think it's not an option in Ireland?

What is the alternative for growing the league? Because dropping in made-up clubs (Dublin City, Kildare County) hasn't worked either.

Stute and Warrenpoint are doing nothing at all to limit the IL. If the likes of Portadown or Distillery - nominally bigger clubs - are a division or two below them, that reflects really badly on them, not on well-run smaller clubs.

[Kiki Balboa]

A pyramid system operates and works in literally every other country in Europe. Why do you think it's not an option in Ireland?

What is the alternative for growing the league? Because dropping in made-up clubs (Dublin City, Kildare County) hasn't worked either.

Stute and Warrenpoint are doing nothing at all to limit the IL. If the likes of Portadown or Distillery - nominally bigger clubs - are a division or two below them, that reflects really badly on them, not on well-run smaller clubs.

Totally agree. There has to be strong incentives and reduced risk for established junior clubs to make the step up. Access to national underage is a big incentive.

[pineapple stu]

There has to be strong incentives and reduced risk for established junior clubs to make the step up.
Yep. And that's something that's effectively never been there before (or even now). The First Division is the Graveyard for a reason.

[Kiki Balboa]

Yep. And that's something that's effectively never been there before (or even now). The First Division is the Graveyard for a reason.

The 'A' league reduced risk, amateur rather than semi professional/regional reduced cost.

To be fair, its the same problem acorss Irish football (and others far and wide), like of investment/capital for long term projects.

[pineapple stu]

It did and it didn't.

The case of Tralee Dynamoes makes that point - they had to leave the Kerry League to join the A Championship which ran on a different season (so a few months without a game), and when they wanted to drop out, they had to return to the foot of the Kerry League pyramid (again with a few months without a game because of the different seasons) and make their way back up.

That's utterly, utterly idiotic and counter-productive.

[EalingGreen]

In the Irish League, tiny clubs like Institute and Warrenpoint get to the top tier by virtue of the fact that the gap between intermediate and senior football there isn't all that big.Afternoon all.

Just idly browsing, but I have to say that that caught my eye.

I mean, isn't that the whole point of a pyramid? That is, you aim to reach the top by being able to climb from each step to the next. While the clubs who are replaced don't have so far to descend.

Contrast that with eg the LOI, where you have a fairly competitive top division (the apex); the next step down has maybe 4 or 5 clubs with realistic aspirations of climbing further and staying there, with the rest just making up the numbers. After that it's like falling off a cliff.

Perhaps that's why there were never any ancient pyramids in Ireland: they didn't realise you build them from the bottom up, not the top down!



They then add nothing to the top level in reality (no fans, no appeal etc), and in-effect help limit the top tier's growth and thereby sustain the narrow gap between the levels. It's a recipe for mediocrity and for the dominance of just a few longstanding clubs (who can create their own financial weather).
Really?

So long as they're not getting humped 6-0 every week, are living within their means and not incurring huge debts/going bust, what harm is there in clubs like that? They add variety to the same old, same old.

Meanwhile, Point kept senior football alive in S.Down after Newry folded and Stute provide the alternative in a proper footballing city which is able to support two senior teams (just). And if both their crowds are very small, fact is, their best crowds are always when the big clubs come from Belfast, meaning away fans at least are interested in a trip out to somewhere different.

Meanwhile, at nearly 40 years old, Point can now claim to be well-established in what is otherwise GAA territory, as well as providing an outlet for players and coaches from South of the border. While Stute are over a century old, having produced many important footballing figures, including eg Darron Gibson, James McClean and Aaron McEneff for ROI alone recently.

Compare that with all the Pop-Up clubs which have have been parachuted into the LOI pyramid in recent years, only to disappear without trace just as quickly. What did they add?

[EalingGreen]

A pyramid system operates and works in literally every other country in Europe. Why do you think it's not an option in Ireland?

What is the alternative for growing the league? Because dropping in made-up clubs (Dublin City, Kildare County) hasn't worked either.

Stute and Warrenpoint are doing nothing at all to limit the IL. If the likes of Portadown or Distillery - nominally bigger clubs - are a division or two below them, that reflects really badly on them, not on well-run smaller clubs.Agree with all of that

Meanwhile, after a period of being very badly run, as you say, Portadown have finally got back to the top division - just in time for Covid!

While Distillery's troubles (literally) all stem from having been caught up in the middle of a war zone at Grosvenor Park. After the ground was fire-bombed, then demolished, it was unrealistic to try to relocate within Belfast (too many clubs already), and while Lisburn might have seemed like a good idea, Ballyskeagh really isn't suitable for football, and has never caught on.

But I'd have loved to have got to a game at Grosvenor, one of the great old Irish football grounds:

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Fpm3ahHthoo/Vm3oO1GupSI/AAAAAAAAI38/-FlGuife3X0/s1600/distillery.jpg

[redobit]

Afternoon all.

So long as they're not getting humped 6-0 every week, are living within their means and not incurring huge debts/going bust, what harm is there in clubs like that? They add variety to the same old, same old.

Meanwhile, Point kept senior football alive in S.Down after Newry folded and Stute provide the alternative in a proper footballing city which is able to support two senior teams (just). And if both their crowds are very small, fact is, their best crowds are always when the big clubs come from Belfast, meaning away fans at least are interested in a trip out to somewhere different.

Meanwhile, at nearly 40 years old, Point can now claim to be well-established in what is otherwise GAA territory, as well as providing an outlet for players and coaches from South of the border. While Stute are over a century old, having produced many important footballing figures, including eg Darron Gibson, James McClean and Aaron McEneff for ROI alone recently.

Compare that with all the Pop-Up clubs which have have been parachuted into the LOI pyramid in recent years, only to disappear without trace just as quickly. What did they add?

Exactly and UCD are the perfect example. Whether you agree or dislike how they are funded doesn't really matter, at the end of the day they are always relatively competitive in whichever division they play and probably more important they will never have an * beside their name.

As much as we'd like to have strong crowds at games, it isn't the end all and be all of a club. Every country will have teams near the bottom of their pyramid system who have small crowds but are financially stable. It just so happens that those type of clubs are closer to the top tier in this country.

[DCSIL]

Meanwhile, Point kept senior football alive in S.Down after Newry folded and Stute provide the alternative in a proper footballing city which is able to support two senior teams (just). And if both their crowds are very small, fact is, their best crowds are always when the big clubs come from Belfast, meaning away fans at least are interested in a trip out to somewhere different.

Meanwhile, at nearly 40 years old, Point can now claim to be well-established in what is otherwise GAA territory, as well as providing an outlet for players and coaches from South of the border. While Stute are over a century old, having produced many important footballing figures, including eg Darron Gibson, James McClean and Aaron McEneff for ROI alone recently.

Compare that with all the Pop-Up clubs which have have been parachuted into the LOI pyramid in recent years, only to disappear without trace just as quickly. What did they add?

Great set up at Warrenpoint(Especially the "Medical Room" :cool:)Usually in the lower half of the Irish League but competitive, and Where they are often pick up players from Mid-Ulster and Louth sides and Develop them. Backed well by local business in recent years.

[Charlie Darwin]

Great set up at Warrenpoint(Especially the "Medical Room" :cool:)Usually in the lower half of the Irish League but competitive, and Where they are often pick up players from Mid-Ulster and Louth sides and Develop them. Backed well by local business in recent years.
Exactly the type of club we need on both sides of the border, as we don't have a lot of large population centres and there are a lot of players who aren't in close proximity to them who could benefit from clubs like that. Not comparing them in terms of being well-run, but the likes of Athlone and Wexford do a similar job here.