Republic of Ireland v Finland - Wednesday, 14th October 2020 - UEFA Nations League

[paul_oshea]

Few players need put out to pasture. Robbie Brady was woeful. Hourihane anonymous yet again.

Randolph with an uncharacteristic howler can be forgiven but the whole defence switched off at the same time.

We're playing some lovely neat football, but there's too many slack passes, lapse in concentration, and not enough support or speed in attack.

It's so frustrating to watch us create chance after chance, but fail to even get shots on target from them, never mind goals.

Such contradictory stuff on here, the last day people were saying brady was great, i thought he was very poor sunday and ok today, very average. But yet the message on here is always aobut the individual playing poor but the performance being good. I am not sure how that works when same players are interchangeable to the side and their poor performances also. At some point you've got to start asking whats the actual performance like?

[Razors left peg]

That result is gutting. We do so much right, but we are so f'ing bad when we get near their box. Stupid goal to give away. I'm so annoyed right now. I still think we are going in right direction and it will eventually come together. Stuff about as bad as Staunton is nonsense.

Of course its results business and he needs to start winning games soon. Made big mistake leaving Horgan and Hendrick on as long as he did. Hendrick playing 10 doesn't work and Horgan just not good enough. I think Kenny made more mistakes tonight than other games but I'm still going to hold on to the fact that we created more than enough chances to win. So so frustrating

[Philly]

I think people really need to relax. Yes, we were poor in the second half, but we had a depleted squad. Horgan started out of a lack of options. He was not even in the original squad so it's hardly favoritism. Same with Curtis. It has been a deflating few games but a lot of the indicators have been positive. We still can't score however, and until we fix that Guardiola could be in charge and we'd struggle.

[zero]

we'd the handy covid excuse vs wales but who were we missing tonight that would have played? browne i guess.

2 more games in november. we'll play the exact same way and maybe we'll even win a game. relegation battle with bulgaria, which we might be better off losing.

[pineapple stu]

Coming up on seven hours without a goal... What's our record?

Go back to the 60s and it's probably quite crap.

Can't see the FAI affording to sack Kenny.

I think though the results so far have to be taken in the context of lots of players missing for covid/injury/suspension, and the general decline in the game here in Delaney's time. Plus here we had a home crowd with no away support at all. All that has to be taken into account.

3 goals against in 5 games is an excellent record, especially when we haven't been playing particularly defensively.

1 goal for in 5 games is awful of course. I'd be interested in seeing our expected goals total though. We're creating more chances than a couple of games ago, and Kenny can't magic a striker up to score them.

[seanfhear]

He’ll be gone within 12 months at this rate.How many more games would we have played in that time.

It’ll have to improve thats for sure.

[Bungle]

People need to stop thinking that trying to play football is costing us results. It isn't. It's sloppiness and under Mick and O'Neill, we were capable of sloppiness and I can count on one hand over the last 10 years that we have tried to play football.

I really don't know what to make of Kenny. He strikes me as naive in his decision making. I think he has been lucky to get 7 games before wc qualifying starts in games that are competitive and against similar quality opposition (Wales without Bale is our level). He really needs to be making the most of that opportunity though. I will say that we should have beaten both Slovakia and Wales so he has been unlucky and if Enda had scored I think today would have been different - thems the breaks. He does need the whole of the campaign though to get an opportunity to turn it around unless we are losing to San Marino at home. It is encouraging to see hoofball has been discarded. Nothing wrong with the odd long ball but us under MON especially was a national embarrassment and horrible to watch.

For me, Kenny has the benefit of our best underage talent coming through in 20 years. His ability as a manager will be judged by whether by the end of the wc campaign, he has made them into a very decent team with great potential for the ec24 campaign. I think only the very hopeful think we can be among the top 13 in europe and qualify for Qatar. Some things are out of his hands. It's not on Stephen's hands if Troy Parrott is making the wrong decisions off the pitch. However, the quality of talent coming through should be turned into a cohesive international team over the coming 18 months.

[paul_oshea]

Connollys interview, now thats a positive! very refreshing to hear ,saying match awareness, selfishness, need to get better at it, all good stuff to hear.

[Trequartista20]

Still; 47.4% possession, guys!

[seanfhear]

The only Irish person enjoying this will be Mick McCarthy, who'll no doubt have a wry smile on his face, just as he did when Ipswich went down.
Roy Keane reckons he ain’t Irish and one way or another he should not be getting enjoyment out of Ireland doing badly. Anyway he had taken the Irish job under certain conditions and its not as if Clubs are chasing Mick to give him a job either for all that !

[John83]

we'll be told now how great Finland are. :rolleyes:
Finland are ranked behind us in both FIFA and elo rankings. They're not a bad team, but we shouldn't be losing to them twice.

There are lots of caveats: we have conceded just 3 times in 5 games. The squad has been massively disrupted by covid-19 and injuries to key players like Coleman, Egan, McCarthy, and McGoldrick. (Take Alexander-Arnold, van Dijk, Henderson, and Firminho out of the Liverpool team, and see how well they play.) The system is new. We've seen young players like Connolly, Idah, Molumby, and O'Shea demonstrate that they're options in the squad or more. McClean has probably dropped down the pecking order.

Those only help take the bad look off it. One goal in 5 games is beyond ****e. Kenny will be feeling the pinch, and rightly so.

[Trequartista20]

I think people really need to relax. Yes, we were poor in the second half, but we had a depleted squad. Horgan started out of a lack of options. He was not even in the original squad so it's hardly favoritism. Same with Curtis. It has been a deflating few games but a lot of the indicators have been positive. We still can't score however, and until we fix that Guardiola could be in charge and we'd struggle.

No other options? Jason Knight was on the bench, and Obafemi was overlooked entirely. Horgan was far from the only problem, but he perhaps acts as an emblem of our latest failure.

[Comic Book Guy]

Some of the comments calling for SK's head are laughable. We are dealing with the fallout of years of wholesale neglect, short term thinking and the cult of JD et al which has brought us to this level. For once there seems to be joined up thinking at underage to senior level.Give it time ffs. We've had over a decade of dross, up at at 'em, plucky, lump it and hope for the best and now there seems to be a sea change. The chances are being created. The finns celebrated like they qualified for the WC at the end. We've had a week of disruption arguably not seen since saipan.
It will turn for us.

[paul_oshea]

Go back to the 60s and it's probably quite crap.

Can't see the FAI affording to sack Kenny.

I think though the results so far have to be taken in the context of lots of players missing for covid/injury/suspension, and the general decline in the game here in Delaney's time. Plus here we had a home crowd with no away support at all. All that has to be taken into account.

3 goals against in 5 games is an excellent record, especially when we haven't been playing particularly defensively.

1 goal for in 5 games is awful of course. I'd be interested in seeing our expected goals total though. We're creating more chances than a couple of games ago, and Kenny can't magic a striker up to score them.

I'm begining to feel having watched these games its more to do with how busy we are and have been to get the ball, we arent actually suited to a proper out and out striker, we require all our players to be busy and running channels and angles, dropping deep and pulling others into the game. What we realistically need is either change to a proper striker who sticks up top, or we need to have 3-4 proper finishers in the side. The current way is we're half a dozen of one etc. I don't see that changing till say robinson and connolly start adding goals and finishing. McG isn't a finisher we know that. Hopefully idah does but i dont see it in him either. Barely noticed him today.

[Olé Olé]

The thing about it is that we saw Curtis with a good chance. Duffy with a good chance. Stevens with a good chance. Connolly getting crowded out. Connolly with poor deliveries. Doherty with poor deliveries. Brady with a couple of good ones and some poor deliveries. These lads are all capable of executing the assists and goals we need.

We actually had 11 shots and 5 on target. Finland had 7 and 2.
I said it before the match that it was brave to play Maguire and Horgan. It now looks closer to stupid. Neither are or will be good enough for this level. It has been made abundantly clear by their travails in the Championship. Horgan had brief flashes in the first half. Maguire with that heavy touch from Connolly's pass was very poor.

I enjoyed the performance tonight but we need to get better at creating attacking opportunities and patterns and breaking down defences that crowd and sit deep like Finland and Bulgaria. Hopefully that will come.

I was happy with O'Shea tonight. Molumby was good too but drifted out of the game. I don't know how many chance Conor Hourihane needs to prove to Kenny he's not to be relied upon.

[paul_oshea]

Still; 47.4% possession, guys!

hahaha

[Trequartista20]

Finland are ranked behind us in both FIFA and elo rankings. They're not a bad team, but we shouldn't be losing to them twice.

There are lots of caveats: we have conceded just 3 times in 5 games. The squad has been massively disrupted by covid-19 and injuries to key players like Coleman, Egan, McCarthy, and McGoldrick. (Take Alexander-Arnold, van Dijk, Henderson, and Firminho out of the Liverpool team, and see how well they play.) The system is new. We've seen young players like Connolly, Idah, Molumby, and O'Shea demonstrate that they're options in the squad or more. McClean has probably dropped down the pecking order.

Those only help take the bad look off it. One goal in 5 games is beyond ****e. Kenny will be feeling the pinch, and rightly so.

The Finnish league is ranked by UEFA at an even lower than the discredited FAI's attempt at a national league (from which they've picked three of their squad) and they have no more than a couple of players playing in one of Europe's major leagues. We, by contrast, van pick an entire team of players playing their football in the Premier League.

Make no mistake, we are underperforming as a nation.

[Eirambler]

Well that brings a sorry week in the history of Irish football to a predictable end. It's very dispiriting watching us passing the ball back and over in the middle of the field with clearly no strategy or gameplan for what we're going to do with it in the final third. And then we resort to hoofball again in the last 10 minutes when we're chasing a game.

Bulgaria, Finland, Slovakia, Wales without Bale, Finland again. Let's be honest here, these teams range from mediocre (Finland) to utter crap (Bulgaria) and still we couldn't beat any of them. I'm all for a rebuild and willing to give it time but I'm not convinced that we've made any progress in the last five games or that we're going to consistently create chances that will give us genuine goalscoring opportunities rather than the half chances we've been missing in the last two games.

I hope it comes good for Kenny, I really do, but you can't help but feel that four or six years from now the likes of Knight and O'Shea will be going into a major finals tournament, talking fondly about him giving them their chance in international football while he's back managing Bohemians or someone in the League of Ireland.

[ontheotherhand]

A lot of ****e posted on here as usual. Lads are forgetting McCarthy's first games in charge. W0 D1 L4 GD -7.

[paul_oshea]

Well that brings a sorry week in the history of Irish football to a predictable end. It's very dispiriting watching us passing the ball back and over in the middle of the field with clearly no strategy or gameplan for what we're going to do with it in the final third. And then we resort to hoofball again in the last 10 minutes when we're chasing a game.

Bulgaria, Finland, Slovakia, Wales without Bale, Finland again. Let's be honest here, these teams range from mediocre (Finland) to utter crap (Bulgaria) and still we couldn't beat any of them. I'm all for a rebuild and willing to give it time but I'm not convinced that we've made any progress in the last five games or that we're going to consistently create chances that will give us genuine goalscoring opportunities rather than the half chances we've been missing in the last two games.

I hope it comes good for Kenny, I really do, but you can't help but feel that four or six years from now the likes of Knight and O'Shea will be going into a major finals tournament, talking fondly about him giving them their chance in international football while he's back managing Bohemians or someone in the League of Ireland.

Couldn't have put this better, we all like the underdog story, the hollywood type movie, we'd all love for kenny to succeed, and its not about that, but you have to weigh up the performances and the overall play and then work against the results and what we've actually achieved thus far. No one remembers the performances, they remember the results. And the performances will soon be forgotten but the results willl still be there. And when Euro 2020 comes around no one will be saying, jees do you remember brownes miss or hourihanes one cleared off the line. And for those with the "give it time rebuild for a few years" in 2022 at what point do we say hold on this isnt working?

[paul_oshea]

A lot of ****e posted on here as usual. Lads are forgetting McCarthy's first games in charge. W0 D1 L4 GD -7.

That one keeps getting brought up, that was a massive overhaul, was it not close to 6 players retiring? Its apples and oranges. And Mick brought us to two play-offs which we lost? It took him 3 attempts and then we got hammered against switzerland. We got to a last 16 of a world cup which was great, but thats all a nation our size can ever really hope for. Are we really saying we're happy to hold off until 2026 before we qualifying for something again(not including this playoff)? We're a small nation, we can't throwaway qualifying campaigns, the performances have to match the results.

[Bielsa´s irish]

Couldn't have put this better, we all like the underdog story, the hollywood type movie, we'd all love for kenny to succeed, and its not about that, but you have to weigh up the performances and the overall play and then work against the results and what we've actually achieved thus far. No one remembers the performances, they remember the results. And the performances will soon be forgotten but the results willl still be there. And when Euro 2020 comes around no one will be saying, jees do you remember brownes miss or hourihanes one cleared off the line. And for those with the "give it time rebuild for a few years" in 2022 at what point do we say hold on this isnt working?

how did we play?

[Bielsa´s irish]

we need to get Bamford, Sheridan and more forwards. Maguire only as a winger

[paul_oshea]

Same as the last few games you've seen BI

[Real ale Madrid]

I'm not sure at what point you say it's not working. But it's not after 5 games anyway. Kenny like every manager before him will get a full qualification campaign and there will be an assessment after that.

We have 2 more Nations league games in Nov and then it's 3 WC quals in a week in March so I'm hopeful in he long run the blooding that has gone on this week will pay dividends then.

[Razors left peg]

I asked before and never got an answer... those that think this is terrible and we shouldn't be trying to build this kind of passing game plan, what would you rather us do? Should we go back to the 11 behind the ball in every game? Do we forget how bad things really were under MON and Mccarthy. Gibraltar away, Georgia away when we needed the win.

Its been a bad start for Kenny with results but at least we can all see he's trying to build something.

[Trequartista20]

A lot of ****e posted on here as usual. Lads are forgetting McCarthy's first games in charge. W0 D1 L4 GD -7.

We've just replaced McCarthy with Kenny, so that slightly undermines your presumed point. But whatever..

Mick won one of his first eight. But those were friendlies, and against some of the best teams in the world at the time: Russia, Czech Republic, Portugal, the Netherlands and Mexico amongst them. So that's not really an entirely direct nor particularly useful comparison.

[Bielsa´s irish]

I read Roy Keane comments,, he said we are toothless up front. I only excuse Kenny if he uses this games as a try out, i guessed Horgan can be useful as an impact player, Maguire never as a main forward, Connolly with all this turnaround did what he could.
I dont have problems with conceding, we have to scored dont think is sensible to play England now, cant we play a minnow just to get some things in shape instead of Bosnia away?

[seanfhear]

We have big heap many average players ! !

[jbyrne]

A lot of ****e posted on here as usual. Lads are forgetting McCarthy's first games in charge. W0 D1 L4 GD -7.

and mon with the north. dreadful run of results then they became a decent side. so decent that many on this forum held them up as an example of what we should be like.

those giving out are failing to give any allowance for the dreadful hand kenny has been dealt with the covid situation.

we have only 1 goal in 5 but could just of easily been 5 or 6

[backstothewall]

I came here thinking the game was starting at 8.

Lucky me by the sounds of it.

[pineapple stu]

Coming up on seven hours without a goal... What's our record?
We're four matches without a goal at the moment; we scored in injury time in Bulgaria, so that's 360 minutes - 6 hours - without scoring.

Our record is actually the transition between Jack and Mick which has been referenced here - 5 full games and 500 minutes between John Aldridge scoring in a 2-1 win over Latvia and Keith O'Neill scoring in a 2-2 draw against Croatia.

Then four games without a goal in 2018, or 462 minutes between Aiden O'Brien scoring in a 1-1 friendly draw in Poland and Jeff Hendrick's winner in Gibraltar.

[ontheotherhand]

Massive overhaul? You mean like we are going through right now? Apples and oranges I'd agree with in a sense as Mick wasn't dealing with covid disruptions and had Keane, Staunton, McGrath, Aldridge etc, i.e, some of the best we've had in their positions.

I'm not quite sure what point you're making overall Paul. Mick started poorly and ended poorly with a few bright spots? He punched above our weight for a time? Mick did well to get us to playoffs but we must qualify for tournaments now as a bare minimum?

We have the players we have. At least we are seeing some new blood come through and we are trying to play instead of just holding on in the hopes we nick a corner in the last 3 minutes and Duffy can get his head on it. Saying the performances have to match the results is an odd cliche. If you play ****e in a game but manage to rob 3 points does it set you up better in the long run? Would you rather be lucky for a few games in a row or build a platform where luck isn't as necessary?

[Closed Account 2]

I think we should get rid of Stephen Kenny now. I felt the same out in Nicosia years ago when we took a hammering out there, sometimes you just know it’s not only not working, but failing spectacularly even this early. We have been on the slide for a while, arguably since the Danish playoff defeat at home. Mick steadied the ship and got us within touching distance of Euro 2020/2021 the wheels have come off now. I know he’s got the team playing a sort of tiki-lacka where we play aimless short passes, and have a complete reluctance to get the ball quickly into the opposition box, and I know this will please a small but highly vocal element of our support irrespective of quickly the losses start racking up. But there is absolutely zero cutting-edge, we just do not look like scoring and it’s not as if we’ve been facing teams rammed with world class defenders. We look like a pot E team and all of Europe would be rubbing their hands at the prospect of playing us, even minnows like Luxembourg and Litchenstein would fancy their chances of beating us home and away. It doesn’t have to be this way, we need to make the change, there are better options we need to take them.

[ontheotherhand]

I only wish we'd gotten that MON instead of the MON we got.

[brine3]

I asked before and never got an answer... those that think this is terrible and we shouldn't be trying to build this kind of passing game plan, what would you rather us do? Should we go back to the 11 behind the ball in every game? Do we forget how bad things really were under MON and Mccarthy. Gibraltar away, Georgia away when we needed the win.

Its been a bad start for Kenny with results but at least we can all see he's trying to build something.

Maybe they want us to go back to being the keep it tight, hard to beat team that got trashed by Denmark in the playoffs.

Or maybe it is the free-scoring displays of swashbuckling football that Mick served up in his most recent reign. Where we scored hardly any goals and finished third in the group.

I dunno. I think Kenny is trying to do something new. He's missing loads of players and we are in the middle of a pandemic. Frankly I couldn't care less about the Nations League. I still don't even know how it works. So let him experiment. Against Slovakia we looked good and had the penalties gone the other way we'd be 90 mins away from the Euros.

But please let us not go back to the paddywhackery put em under pressure passion stuff.

[seanfhear]

I came here thinking the game was starting at 8.

Lucky me by the sounds of it.
It was not far off cruel and unusual punishment = = Standard enough Irish fare !

Is there anything that FIFA can do to put an end to such savagely bad football ? A lot of international football at this level is awful !

[seanfhear]

I only wish we'd gotten that MON instead of the MON we got.
I’d keep his number handy. I wonder would he take the job. I suppose it depends on how the Club Management is going for him.

[tetsujin1979]

I only wish we'd gotten that MON instead of the MON we got.
That MON lost to Azerbaijan and Luxembourg. Any other international association would have sacked him after that

[pineapple stu]

We have been on the slide for a while, arguably since the Danish playoff defeat at home.
We've been on the slide a long way before that.

Did Mick get to touching distance of the Euros? Realistically we were a distant third; a draw in Georgia, scraping past Gibraltar twice, and easily beaten in Switzerland when it mattered. So touching distance then becomes having to win two matches in a play-off? I don't know; it's a bit of a stretch. (I still think Delaney was a fool for sacking Mick as soon as he'd started btw)

I don't think I could go back to watching the ****e we played under Mick pt 2 (Mick pt 1 was fantastic), O'Neill and Trap though.

Bottom line though for me though is we don't have the players, especially up front, and that's the key worry. There's some players coming through but there's a lot of kids and like when Mick did the same thing in 96, that transition takes time. Kenny is giving them a chance though, which is exactly what's needed.

[shakermaker1982]

Listening to Mick repeatedly say how brilliant Hourihane and Brady are with set piece deliveries every game is driving me nuts already. 5 seconds later the balls hits the first man or floats into the opposition keepers arms.

Kenny is under pressure already, bonkers but he is. Harsh but that is how the crazy world of football works.

Senior international football is a big step up for most youngsters, it takes time for them to find their feet. This is why SK will need to persevere with Hourihane (woeful again) and Brady.

Going through the team:

The back 5 is solid. Happy enough with the depth there.

Central Midfield - always a problem area for us. I like Molumby but the other 2 spots are up for grabs.

Out wide - lack quality and other than McClean the rest do not chip in with goals

Up top - no goals whatsoever. McGoldrick is a good link up man but needs a 9 next to him. That would require a change in the 433. McGoldrick was playing CM at times against Wales which is a bloody waste of time.

Maguire will never be a decent international player. That first touch in the box in the 1st half is just not acceptable at this level.

I really hope I’m wrong but I think we are in for a horrendous 12 months. I just cannot see us scoring many goals.

[pineapple stu]

I really hope I’m wrong but I think we are in for a horrendous 12 months. I just cannot see us scoring many goals.
While this may well be true, it's worth noting that it's just an extension of the last three years really.

Four goals in nine games in 2018, one of those in a 4-1 defeat.

Seven goals in eight games in Euro 2020 qualifying in a group where we played Gibraltar twice.

Now this. It's a serious problem, but let's be clear that Martin O'Neill and Mick both had the exact same problems, so it's hardly a Kenny issue.

[paul_oshea]

Its funny i was trying to find on the slovakia thread about saying we could go 480 mins and only having scored one goal. Thats exactly whats happened.

I wont take anymore educated guesses, for the health and wellbeing of us all. :

[Trequartista20]

He was vilified by some, but Jason McAteer's point has only intensified in relevance. And let us not forget that McAteer played under Kerr.

Kenny really needed to get off to a half-decent start - and he hasn't....

[osarusan]

We already know we don't have the players to play defensive hoofball all that effectively. Not to the point of reaching a finals anyway.

Kenny is trying something new, but it's looking like we don't have the players to play a more patient passing game effectively either.

More than anything, lack of any kind of threat at all in the final third is killing us. And the more obvious it becomes as to just how unlikely we are to score goals, the more teams will be willing to attack us.

[Razors left peg]

Id be much more worried if we weren't creating any chances. We are so it makes me think we are right track

[Paddy Garcia]

Definitely right not to play Cullen.

He would have exposed his poor delection in the play off game.

[ontheotherhand]

We've just replaced McCarthy with Kenny, so that slightly undermines your presumed point. But whatever..

Mick won one of his first eight. But those were friendlies, and against some of the best teams in the world at the time: Russia, Czech Republic, Portugal, the Netherlands and Mexico amongst them. So that's not really an entirely direct nor particularly useful comparison.

Not sure you understood the fairly simple point so here you go - managers sometimes start poorly as they try out players etc. Cant judge anyone until theyve had time to build. Lads are on here doing the usual pining for managers of times gone by. Mick had it far easier with friendlies and world class players in his team. Kenny was dropped into a ****storm of pressure and it only got worse with half the squad decimated over 3 games. Im not a fan of kenny but he needs time like any manager.

I see you referenced McAteer later on...christ....ill leave you to it so.

[jbyrne]

I only wish we'd gotten that MON instead of the MON we got.

bet you werent saying that until denmark did us 5 1. the italy, germany, bosnia, wales and austria results in his first three years cant just be ignored

[ontheotherhand]

I was actually. I'm a Rovers fan. I knew full well how good Michael was and wasn't keen on Martin at all. I might have a few whatsapp agurments with the mates from back then to prove it to you!