Games Weekend 25th September

[pineapple stu]

If a cup game were to happen, as mentioned by Ezeikial, it would be a tighter affair.
In fairness, you would hope that if Dundalk took the game seriously, the result would be different!

All Sunday's result really highlighted was the previously-flagged issues Dundalk have been having with player recruitment the past few years, which their (ageing) EL squad is papering over still.

[The Lilywhites]

No, it won't be. There are a few players there who Vinny Perth was right to think have no business being near a Dundalk team.

They were signed under Perth's watch, and even if he didn't want some of them, he still played them (and praised them in the press). Filippo has hardly had them near the team since he came in and left the rubbish at home for the Sheriff trip.

Perth is the reason 2 of our best players left at the end of last season. It's his total mismanagement of the squad that has it in the state it's in. It's a pity he wasn't sacked before the CL game.

[Martinho II]

They were signed under Perth's watch, and even if he didn't want some of them, he still played them (and praised them in the press). Filippo has hardly had them near the team since he came in and left the rubbish at home for the Sheriff trip.

Perth is the reason 2 of our best players left at the end of last season. It's his total mismanagement of the squad that has it in the state it's in. It's a pity he wasn't sacked before the CL game.

As a matter of curiousity who were the two players that left as my mind has frozen? Perth when he was with us I wasnt entirely convinced by him as caretaker mgr.Maybe thats why SK rated RH higher than VP for Ireland scouting job?

[placid casual]

Pretty sure Benson was one. A fine player, now wasted in a pointless pats team.
Good to see the leagues best player getting a call up to the international team. Hopefully he gets on and shows that an Irish midfielder can get on the ball and demand the ball, not hide like the Scottish guy Mccarthy and Hendrick.

[Nesta99]

Jamie McGrath the other player I presume. Did he really just leave due to VP, or that money in Scotland was better?

[oriel]

Benson & McGrath were two vital parts of the DFC mf last year, the former was a perfect link to Shields in MF to push forward / pass / score, the latter was getting stronger by the game, and a great option at 10 or on right side, better in the middle though.

It was clear McGrath wasn't re-signing, options in SPL too good maybe not €€ more so a springboard, for Benson rumours ok he didn't get on with VP, also that he wanted less FT and to gradually return to his day job, whatever the reasons, maybe only two players but two huge losses.

Whats also clear now is the player quality that VP signed, apart from Leahy, does not appear to be anywhere near the standard for Dundalk. Maybe D Kelly is another, Murray also started 2019 well, but drifted, now back in good form so he's actually another good player, but can't think of any others signed for start of 2019 who are worth mentioning. Flores may score great goals, too many injuries and not consistent.

Once Rovers scored on Sunday, it was almost indoor football passing and movement from them. Gaps all over the place from us.

[DCSIL]

Sligo just about the better team tonight getting the late goal. Both sides going out attacking but we can’t score.

[Nah Nah Nah Nah]

You wouldn’t get much argument if you said a draw was a fair result. Shocking miss off the post by ye (at least it sounded like the post even though Stephen Alkin kept saying Teemu cleared)

[Ezeikial]

Benson & McGrath were two vital parts of the DFC mf last year, the former was a perfect link to Shields in MF to push forward / pass / score, the latter was getting stronger by the game, and a great option at 10 or on right side, better in the middle though.

It was clear McGrath wasn't re-signing, options in SPL too good maybe not €€ more so a springboard, for Benson rumours ok he didn't get on with VP, also that he wanted less FT and to gradually return to his day job, whatever the reasons, maybe only two players but two huge losses.

Whats also clear now is the player quality that VP signed, apart from Leahy, does not appear to be anywhere near the standard for Dundalk. Maybe D Kelly is another, Murray also started 2019 well, but drifted, now back in good form so he's actually another good player, but can't think of any others signed for start of 2019 who are worth mentioning. Flores may score great goals, too many injuries and not consistent.

Once Rovers scored on Sunday, it was almost indoor football passing and movement from them. Gaps all over the place from us.

It's an interesting discussion about where the deficiencies in the Dundalk squad lie. Identifying the departures of Robbie Benson and Jamie McGrath points towards the issues. Even though Dundalk won everything bar the FAI Cup last season, it was obvious to most regulars that problems were mounting in midfield with a lack of creativity and penetration from the no 8 and no 10 positions. Quality additions were needed in these positions in the close season, but instead Benson and McGrath departed and were not properly replaced. Sean Murray, Jordan Flores and Patrick McEleney simply continued on their injury-ravaged form and their collective contribution was woefully inadequate.

I agree that Sean Murray is showing some signs of finding form again, but like you looking for yellow JCB's inside Oriel Park, I'll hold off on judgement. Suffice to say at this point, I doubt he will be at Oriel Park next season

[sbgawa]

The dundalk 2nd 11 a couple of years ago were arguably the 2nd or 3rd best team in the league.
In some ways the prospect of 15 or 16 players out of contract at years end may be a blessing in disguise.
Hold onto Duffy, Hoare , mceleney (bound to find fitness) gannon and ditch a lot of the rest.

[joey B]

McEleney (bound to find fitness) .

Is McEleney's fitness trouble's a major issue for Dundalk? He's a great player but has missed an awful lot of football in the last year....

[Charlie Darwin]

Did VP say that? Supporters certainly were thinking so about the odd one.
Not as far as I know, and Vinny would be fairly discreet in what he says, but I think it was obvious about certain players (particularly the lad who went to Athlone) and the open secret of certain players being recommended to start in games.

[Nesta99]

Is McEleney's fitness trouble's a major issue for Dundalk? He's a great player but has missed an awful lot of football in the last year....

His absence is always a loss, but if alluding to his lack of availability so often that we should have a fix for him being out injured with a player to cover well yeah, you are right. A number of signings were made with a view to being able to adapt to the McEleney roll. Arguably Flores, Murray, Sloggett, Colovic are versatile enough to cover. Colovic hasnt been tried but the others have with varying levels of success. I have championed Murray as a top class signing, and I still think he can become one of our key players in a number of roles if he can stay injury free and that is the question over him. Flores also if he finds consistancy and is injury free - my issue there is his stance on contract issues where its reported that he wants terms to be improved. He hasnt shown anything more than glimpses that he should be offered a new and better deal.

McEleney is the fastest player in a straight up sprint in the squad. His gait (biomechanics) when sprinting are all over the place though (if anyone remembers Simon Geoghan in the rugby, also often out with similar type injuries to McEleney) leaning back with head over the heels, arching the back, belly/hips forward, arms everywhere, when at full pelt and very much so from a dead start. Straightening up and getting the head more forward so hips are under or slightly behind shoulders would improve things imo. Some time with a sprinting coach would do no harm, and tidy things up to take the unnecessary stresses off that can keep causing muscle strains. Rogers did it to help prolong his career with success. S+C should be on it if not already. Indeed it could benefit the entire squad as it would inject a bit more in explosive sprint starts, save energy, injury prevention and even add marginally to overall pace.

[sbgawa]

Interesting point on McEleneys Gait,...Trevor Clarke and Grahame Burke both have that shoulders back at full sprint gait.
I always thought Clarke in particular was scary fast while not looking like he was really trying and Burke is amongst the quickest when he goes for it.
Murray was signed as he was in sensational form and i expected him to be at the heart of DFC but he has really disappeared.

[Nesta99]

Yeah, its kinda why I mentioned bringing maybe only marginal improvements in pace as they are already quick in a natural way. But poor technique will eventually take its toll, especially 25/26+. It's basically that poor alignment means the muscles are working hard to compensate and if its not injury causing it certainly burns up energy unnecessarily. Fine margins count these days and I feel it would be a bit like the edge that was created by improving S+C when SK was manager. Now that teams have caught up on S+C this could be the edge for the first club to work on running/sprinting technique. Without being too technical us average joes, or non specialist athletics runners (like footballers) tend to have a rotary type leg movement and the head bobs up and down. It should be more 'piston' like with an up down leg motion and slightly leaning forward to get that maximum drive off the ground, if done right there is no head movement and looks like its gliding along (like they could be on standing still on a moving walkway, not seeing their feet). There is a lot of lateral movement with McEleney and uses the arms as if he is trying to 'swim' and gain speed. Arms should only pump from 'hips to lips. Anyway its an observation and as there isnt consistant surface or contact injuries, then its probably technique - especially if injury prone already.

Murray I thibk needs game time and luck. He was rushed back from injury before too, He is gradually improving now and needs to stop going missing in games, but thats a confidence

[The Lilywhites]

Not as far as I know, and Vinny would be fairly discreet in what he says, but I think it was obvious about certain players (particularly the lad who went to Athlone) and the open secret of certain players being recommended to start in games.

To be fair to Taner, he's only a young lad and maybe it was done with a view to striking up a partnership with Harvard. He seems to have done ok with Athlone (well he's scored some goals anyway). Wouldn't criticise him, he was shipped out to Athlone pretty quickly although he still trains with us.

I'd be more annoyed with the nonsense signing of Gatt, a lad who's played little over 100 senior games in 10 years (and was built up as an ex USA international), and the silly reason he was signed (the chairman basing it on a sob story interview).

As for McEleney, it's time to cut him loose. Brilliant player but he's no use to us if he's only playing a handful of games a season, especially with the money he's on. A total waste on the wage bill. Offer him a pay per play or send him back to Derry.

[MKMK]

Lot of injuries and breaks they got in other games not happening now.

[Sonny]

Interesting point on McEleneys Gait,...Trevor Clarke and Grahame Burke both have that shoulders back at full sprint gait.
I always thought Clarke in particular was scary fast while not looking like he was really trying and Burke is amongst the quickest when he goes for it.
Murray was signed as he was in sensational form and i expected him to be at the heart of DFC but he has really disappeared.

Burkey is in his arse amongst the quickest! ;) I doubt he'd be amongst the quickest in the u11s ffs!

[sbgawa]

Don't agree with you there.
He is deceptive and especially quick over first few yards