Missing the bigger picture - is Kerr to blame?

[Fergie's Son]

It's not even six am but the jetlag has me up. What I witness last night was an utter disgrace and I place the blame squarely at Kerr's feet. Forget about the ref or the Israeli 'keeper. They just deflect from the deeper cancer within that team. Here's an email I sent on the 28th minute from the North Touchline:

....we're doing well though. Concerned that Kerr has brought on Kavanagh for an injured Keane. Very defensive, are we going to sit back and let them attack now after 27 mins? I'm worried.


I'm not posting this to show how I predicted something because that's nonsense but to highlight Kerr's lack of tactical nous.

He takes of a small, quick striker and replaces him with a defensive midfielder. What sort of message do you think that sends? Instead of continuing to harass the large Israeli centre backs with a quick player he decides to concede the momentum. He then puts one of the worlds best wingers with his back to the goal. So instead of running at the Israeli's our best player has to come for the ball and then turn and run.

Kerr then removes Andy Reid and goes for direct, route-one football.

The Israeli's are a weak team who will not qualify so they really aren't the issue. Kerr gave up the momentum and then played a defender who can't get a game for his relegated team instead of a speedy striker in Elliot.

I was all for Kerr in the beginning but now I want him out. This result was his fault and nothing should deflect from that.

[Saint Tom]

excellent post. I am a pats fans so I will always respect Brian. BUT, he is out of his depth.

his tactical inability cost us dearly last night and in Tel aviv, and in Basel. He simply can not defend a lead. Last night was a gut wrenching disgrace. John O shea should be lined against a wall and shot.

[tonycuna]

I listened to the match on radio RTE, so I don't know how O'Shea played yesterday :o

I can say that I was really surprised by the change -Kavanagh for Keane-, it's a type of change that you can do at the half time, if you really want to do it, but surely not in the middle of the first time..

But I believe that BK can bring us to Germany :)

I'm really happy for Ian Harte's goal! This is the best thing I took from yesterday, apart from the very good performance of the team..

Good job Ian! You showed you deserve a place in this team! ;)

[Plastic Paddy]

This is what I wrote last night and I'm sticking to it:

:ball: PP

---

Denied by a combination of blatant cheating, refereeing bias and tactical incompetence. We should at the very least:

i) appeal to UEFA to have Andy O'Brien's red card overturned. It should be upheld, no question.
ii) petition UEFA to have that clown transferred forthwith to JP Barnum's circus in the expectation that he'd be much better with the other clowns, and;
iii) look very, very seriously at the position of manager should we fail to qualify from what is, with France's very ordinary form, in essence a very ordinary group.

I expect pelters for point iii) especially from some quarters of the eL brigade. I don't care. Kerr's tactics seem muddled at the best of times. Damien Duff played in three different set positions at different times ffs! Where's the continuity? It's all panic stuff, no fluidity. No wonder they found it so easy to undermine us. Lads and lasses, I see a silk purse being made into a sow's ear, and it's just not good enough. The bar was raised a generation ago when we beat England in Euro 88 and then got to the World Cup quarter-finals. These players need to be made to deliver, and at the moment it just doesn't seem to be there when it's really necessary. Like I said, it's just not good enough.

[liam88]

Denied by a combination of blatant cheating, refereeing bias

That's enough-I think Kerr did well-the fact of the matter is if the referee had been consistant in his penalties we would have won that match 2-1 or 5-2.....end of.......we'reoff to Germany :D

[Plastic Paddy]

Liam, take off the blinkers. Kerr's "tactics" were wholly inappropriate. He made a defensive switch when we were 2-0 up at home against a team we had hitherto played off the park. He moved our best player around into different positions not once, but twice. He has hardly been a model of consistency in his approach to the game, has he? And - if he doesn't get us to the World Cup (and I hate to tell you this, but no amount of praying and "faith" will help) - he should go and make way for a manager that can.

:ball: PP

[liam88]

I hate to tell you this, but no amount of praying and "faith" will help

We're two different people and we believe to very different things.......and that's fine; just glad a lot of people shre my view :D

[Plastic Paddy]

We're two different people and we believe to very different things.......

Not so. We may well believe very similar things, but my advanced years grant me a perspective that you may not yet have. Still, that's life


and that's fine; just glad a lot of people shre my view :D

Good. A lot of people don't though. And some couldn't care less either way. Life isn't all black-and-white absolutism. But we can have this discussion the next time you "buy" me a pint...


and that would be?

If he has to be Irish, what about David O'Leary? He may be a gob****e, but his teams are noted for their attacking football and he has experience of managing in one of the world's top leagues and all that goes with it. Tactical variations and nous. Top-level man-management skills. And an ego to match that of any he'll come across in the dressing room. All essential to manage at the highest level.

If the coach's origins don't matter so much, then it's all down to the FAI's ambitions, isn't it? What about Guus Hiddink? Paul le Guen? Both available right now and probably for not much more than Kerr's getting.

Either way, on the evidence currently, Kerr just doesn't seem up to the task. Nice guy and all that, but not an international manager. Still, twelver points between now and October and I'll happily change my tune. I'll not hold my breath in anticipation though.

:ball: PP

[thejollyrodger]

i agree.. its about time the FAI started to look for a new manager !!!


Kerr out !! Im sick of these WCQ battles.. why cant we qualify like other top teams

[Plastic Paddy]

O'Leary didn't want the job the last time that it was available, and that was two years ago. In the time frame I'm talking about, it'll be at least another twelve months before we look to any changes. And I'm sure you'll agree that three years is time enough for anyone to change their mind.

On your second point, don't make presumptions on my behalf. We don't agree as it happens. I've seen enough to know that "Brian Kerr" and "attacking football" are mutually exclusive constructs. Look, I'm Irish and I'd love to manage my country, but that in itself doesn't mean I should have the job. And I can also accept that, if none of our own are available or up to the task, then we should look for the best alternative available globally. It's got nothing to do with confidence and everything to do with being objective (a most un-Irish trait) and wanting the best for my team. And if the best happens to be from a land "beyond the wave", then I'll take him.

:ball: PP

[brine3]

come on lads, not long ago we were playing for draws and getting beaten, now wea are playing for wins and getting draws

this is a massive paradigm shift in the irish football psyche and it will take time (possibly a generation) to adapt

[sonofstan]

come on lads, not long ago we were playing for draws and getting beaten, now wea are playing for wins and getting draws

this is a massive paradigm shift in the irish football psyche and it will take time (possibly a generation) to adapt

what? ? ... 4 or 5 of the best players to ever play in an ireland shirt are in Kerr's first XI - Duff, Roy Keane, Given, Kilbane and maybe Robbie - all in all a much better cohort than Jack had at his disposal. Put it this way, at least 2 of those would walk into any european club team; yet we continue to run out of ideas. chase games against minnows ..... Jack's teams pulled off some great results against the odds, but the talent base was much less impressive; this team is capable of beating anyone, and too frequently we give away games by pretending to be St. Pats in mid winter in Ballybofey sometime in the 90s

[jimbob117]

i agree.. its about time the FAI started to look for a new manager !!!


Kerr out !! Im sick of these WCQ battles.. why cant we qualify like other top teams


Have a day off will ya. We still have our future in our own hands, give kerr until the 12th of october before you start saying that.If we are top then, im sure people like yourself will be saying what a great coach he is.

[jimbob117]

what? ? ... 4 or 5 of the best players to ever play in an ireland shirt are in Kerr's first XI - Duff, Roy Keane, Given, Kilbane and maybe Robbie - all in all a much better cohort than Jack had at his disposal. Put it this way, at least 2 of those would walk into any european club team;

mcgrath, brady, moran, stapleton,irwin and aldridge would be as good as the above named if not better, and roy was there for jack aswell.

[monutdfc]

I've just watched the highlights on Sky Sports, and my considered response is that it was not Kerr's fault. The result last night was not down to tactics, it was down to Israel scoring from 2 set pieces (the only way they were going to score) as a result of individual errors. The first was a freak header from 18 yards - Cunningham and O'Brian could have done better, but teams score those goals once every couple of seasons. Kerr cannot be blamed for Andy O'Brien not heading a nothing ball ball back to Shay Given, Shay Given slicing it, John O'Shea trapping it further than I could kick it and then manhandling his man in the box.
Kerr cannot be blamed for us losing our star striker through injury.

We shot into a 2 goal lead. Robbie Keane was injured in an incident that was an absolutely definite penalty - no question, having seen the replay. The only decision of Kerr's I would question was not bringing on Elliot instead. He presumably felt Elliot wasn't ready for it, or - admittedly more likely - thought bringing on Kavanagh would consolidate our lead. But we stuck with 4-4-2 and did not hand the initiative back to the Israeli's - they scored one freak (in its rarity) goal and a penalty that was 100% the fault of our defenders. Apart from that, I can recall one other shot they had, on 30 minutes that went well over.

The second half we pummelled them. Kerr cannot be blamed for us not scoring. It was just one of those nights that happen in football from time to time. We at least had more inventiveness than in Charlton's day, against Egypt for example. Or versus Andorra in McCarthy's era. I questioned the decision to bring Doherty on, but he was magnificent.

Charlton had Brady, Lawrenson, McGrath, Stapleton, Sheedy, Houghton and Whelan, and more available to him. No more or less top class players on the scene today. (BTW, while I'm not in the Kilbane knockers camp, he's not in the top 20 Ireland players ever, never mind the top 4)

My opinion. Kerr was rightly criticised after Tel Aviv, but I wouldn't blame last night on him. Some people will want to do so anyway - and they are entitled to their opinion. Some, I think, are just looking for the opportunity to have a go at Kerr.

[jimbob117]

well said monutd fc, agree with everything ya said

[brine3]

what? ? ... 4 or 5 of the best players to ever play in an ireland shirt are in Kerr's first XI - Duff, Roy Keane, Given, Kilbane and maybe Robbie - all in all a much better cohort than Jack had at his disposal. Put it this way, at least 2 of those would walk into any european club team; yet we continue to run out of ideas. chase games against minnows ..... Jack's teams pulled off some great results against the odds, but the talent base was much less impressive; this team is capable of beating anyone, and too frequently we give away games by pretending to be St. Pats in mid winter in Ballybofey sometime in the 90

Is this a wind up?

Jack had Ronnie Whelan, Liam Brady, Paul McGrath, Liam Brady, Ray Houghton, Frank Stapleton, Niall Quinn, Kevin Moran, Packie Bonner, Roy Keane, Denis Irwin and John Aldrige at his disposable at one time or another.

As for chasing games against minnows, don't forget that Jack's Ireland once failed to score against the ultimate European minnow.

[niamh]

The thing that disappoints me most about Kerr is the fact he made his name in the eircom League and bringing on young players...now he ignores both because he is so afraid of messing up.
Stephen Elliott was an option yesterday or even Doherty instead of Kavanagh. I think Graham is a very solid player for Ireland but Kerr was wrong to switch Duff. He was killing Israel from out wide but will always find it difficult against centre halves...he is a small fella after all.

[thejollyrodger]

i agree.. its about time the FAI started to look for a new manager !!!


Kerr out !! Im sick of these WCQ battles.. why cant we qualify like other top teams


I dont think Kerr should be out.. but im seriously fustrated with the man

[pete]

I think the only bad decision Kerr made was bringing Reid off. At the time i assumed Reid was injured as seem to be running out of pace.

There was no chance Kerr was going to play Elliot instead of Kavanagh.

I think he should have substituted Holland for Doherty.

I have never seen such a lucky team as Israel at Lansdowne.

[jimbob117]

I think the only bad decision Kerr made was bringing Reid off. At the time i assumed Reid was injured as seem to be running out of pace.

I think he should have substituted Holland for Doherty.


Why?? A Reid didnt play well, and Holland was having a good game. Kilbane and Duff were doing playing down the wings and did a lot more than reid the whole game.

[glasgabhainn]

All this talk of frustration. This is the Irish soccer team we are talking about. Have we ever qualified for a major championship with any breathing space? Have we ever raced through a qualifying group without breaking sweat, casting aside supposedly lesser sides? After all the near misses and late goals and playoff heartbreaks, should we not be used to this kind of "drama"? should we not be accustomed to having to eke out victories in places like Cyprus and perform gallantly every September in Landsdowne? Should it not be second nature at this stage to glance nervously at the remaining fixture lists and start querying such remote possibilities as the Cypriots doing the Swiss?

Last night we were unlucky, refereeing and comical keeping aside (seriously was Awat any worse that Vitor Baia in the UEFA Cup final...), perhaps more attacking gusto after Robbie went off might have led to a third goal.

We'll go to the Faroes and battle for a victory and then recharge all summer for a glorious encounter with the French. Because at the end of the day, it wouldn't be right for us to be comfortable in qualifying.

Here's to the remaining games and the elevated blood pressure which will accompany them.... :rolleyes:

[Don Vito]

I dont think Kerr should be out.. but im seriously fustrated with the man

Fully agreed Jolly, Kerr is the manager and as the manager he has to take responsibility for the results the team produce. I don't care what people say about the terrible refereeing, the headed goal and the penalty, at the end of the day we are two and a half years into Kerr's reign and we are still without a meaningful victory. Quite simply this isn't good enough. As things stand we have to win on of our games against France or Switzerland and draw the other, on our recent record I can't see that happening. Besides if you let a 2-0 lead against a team ranked 50th in the world I'm not sure if you deserve a place in Germany. I think its a little early to be calling for Kerr's head at this stage but if we fail to grab a playoff spot he position will come under serious pressure, during Mick's time we never failed to make the playoffs.

On the plus side I thought some of our play was the best we've played under Kerr. I just wish we had the French or the Swiss on Wednesday to get that result out of our system.

[Curtains]

I just wish we had the French or the Swiss on Wednesday to get that result out of our system.

Thats the best thing ive read today on this board. If we had the swiss or the french on wedensday night we absolutely kill them. We would be so frustrated wed take it out on them!! Now weve just got the faroes instead!! Although lets not get carried away with the whole get rid of brian kerr. Last night was a freak incident!!

[Slash/ED]

what? ? ... 4 or 5 of the best players to ever play in an ireland shirt are in Kerr's first XI - Duff, Roy Keane, Given, Kilbane and maybe Robbie

what the ****? is that some sort of joke?

I also said it at the time, Kavanagh came on for Keane, we could well throw this away now. It was so obvious to everyone in the ground. Look at the first 25 minutes...

We've scored twice, we've had a blatant penalty not given and a goal (rightly) disallowed, after Morrison should have scored. All in 25 minutes. We were destroying them, and the reason is simply, we're a better side. Israel are NOT a good team. We're attacking constantly, and it's a matter of how many at this stage.

Then the Kerr factor kicks in. Keanes injured, he's got strikers on the bench, who does he bring on? Kavanagh. Our record goal scorer is brought off and replaced by a hard working mid fielder. We switch to essentially a 4-5-1 with Duff up front (In reality, a 4-4-1, as Duff is a f'n useless striker and is never, ever effective up there at all, and never, ever, has been), we start to fall back and big suprise, Israel score twice.

Thank you Brian Kerr.

Second half, with around 30 minutes to go, he puts the bleedin' cherry on the cake of incompentency by subbing off our most creative player on the night and bringing on Doherty. That is bloody sunday league stuff. He then misses two sitters, who saw that coming? Did anyone genuinley believe when Doherty came on that he'd get a goal for us, or he'd do something for us? He's a central defender who can't make the Norwich bench, he's not an international forward, the odd goal in Euro 2004 qualifying does not cover that up. Doherty should not have come on and if we were withdrawing a winger, Kilbane should have come off not Reid. We needed quality, not workrate, heart commitment and all of that, that doesn't open defences.

Then we're going all out for a goal (Mainly as Iarael are sitting in their own box) and under no pressure at all, yet for the entire game we keep a back four until the ref, not the manager, deprives us of that. Elliot should have been on for O'Brien long before the sending off (He was set to come on just before the sending off changed Kerrs mind, that was too late anyway).

Kerr has some good qualities. I like his professionalism and he has great knowledge of the game, but his mind numbing negativity is destroying us. If you're too afraid to attack the worst side of the top teams in this group, you've no chance. Four points dropped to bloody Israel? That is a disgrace.

[liam88]

Not so. We may well believe very similar things, but my advanced years grant me a perspective that you may not yet have. Still, that's life



Good. A lot of people don't though. And some couldn't care less either way. Life isn't all black-and-white absolutism. But we can have this discussion the next time you "buy" me a pint...




Do ya have some kind of a problem with me because from all your replies to my posts on here you seemed distincly p*ssed off with me? :confused:

[Plastic Paddy]

No Liam, nothing of the sort. I'm just having one of those days. Our lovely child-substitute cat (sad, I know) has been missing since Friday and what happened last night really didn't help my general state of mind. Your gleaming positivity is either going to inspire me or drive me nuts at a time like this. This morning it drove me nuts. I feel slightly better and more well-intentioned towards you now, you'll be delighted to know. :D

:ball: PP

[liam88]

No Liam, nothing of the sort. I'm just having one of those days. Our lovely child-substitute cat (sad, I know) has been missing since Friday and what happened last night really didn't help my general state of mind. Your gleaming positivity is either going to inspire me or drive me nuts at a time like this. This morning it drove me nuts. I feel slightly better and more well-intentioned towards you now, you'll be delighted to know. :D

:ball: PP

Oh..ok...sorry then.
Hope ya cat turns up mate :)

[Flea]

The thing that disappoints me most about Kerr is the fact he made his name in the eircom League and bringing on young players...now he ignores both because he is so afraid of messing up.
Stephen Elliott was an option yesterday or even Doherty instead of Kavanagh. I think Graham is a very solid player for Ireland but Kerr was wrong to switch Duff. He was killing Israel from out wide but will always find it difficult against centre halves...he is a small fella after all.

Well said, that is it simply. Kerr go rent a soccer tactics book from your local library. ;)


I think the only bad decision Kerr made was bringing Reid off. At the time i assumed Reid was injured as seem to be running out of pace.

There was no chance Kerr was going to play Elliot instead of Kavanagh.

I think he should have substituted Holland for Doherty.

I have never seen such a lucky team as Israel at Lansdowne.

Reid is too overweight!
The Doc won some good balls.
Holland played well for most of the game, far superior to Kavanagh in tidying up. As for Elliot, why didn't he bring him on for Robbie?

If you want a player to blame don't blame Holland, blame it on the Man Utd wonderkid John O'Shea. Terrible :mad:

[Stuttgart88]

Inept refereeing, cheating Israelis, woeful finishing / good goalkeeping and bad luck were all big factors last night.

But, the biggest factor of all was our manager.

Duff has now played upfront on about a dozen occasions for Ireland and has been a waste of space on almost every occasion. The dogs on the street know this by now.

Early in the game Kilbane & Holland were doing very well. I thought Holland in particular was excellent early on.

Duff & Reid were both doing well on the flanks. Although neither had been causing huge damage (even allowing for Reid's pass for the second goal) Duff in particular was taking 2 or 3 Israelis with him everywhere he went.

We're 2 up and cruising. Isreal were crap.

Then Robbie "has" to go off (more on this later).

So what does Kerr do?

He takes our most dangerous & effective player from his best position and moves him up to where he has proven to be crap. Not only is his finishing unreliable - two misses from within a few feet in the second half were classic examples - but more importantly we took away our most potent threat. By taking him off the wings we were almost giving the Israelis a man back because he was being double and triple marked every time.

Not only that, he broke up a midfield pairing that was working perfectly well. I was disappointed to see Kav start on the bench but I bowed to Kerr's judgment. I thought KK & Holland were great. Then Kav comes on and takes 15 mins to get into the game. What a costly 15 minutes.

Then in order to rectify his obvious error Kerr had to take Reid off. As this game went on we really could have used Reid on the pitch.

If he had just replaced Keane with Elliott he'd have been changing like for like. Both play a similar game. I know Kerr doesn't like blooding young players in big games, but we were 2 up and coasting. When will Elliott get a better chance?

Even if he had brought on Doc then fine: I actually thought he played well. Duff could have stayed dangerous and kept the Isrealis concentrating on marking him rather than getting forward. Central midfield wouldn't have had to be changed and Andy Reid could have stayed on for longer.


I don't think it was a defensive substitution as some have suggested - it was just a stupid one. When will the fcuking penny drop with this guy that Duff is a fcuking winger? One of the best in the world. Stephen Elliott is already a better striker than Duff.

Once Kerr moved Duff back out wide we actually played really well. If that game had finished 0-0 I couldn't have faulted Kerr. How we didn't score in the last 30 minutes wasn't his fault. But what happened before half-time - even allowing for the soft penalty, a bad headed goal given away from a marginal free kick decision, a terrible kick by Shay & even worse control by O'Shea - was 100% Kerr's fault.

I'm not calling for his head by any means but I'm totally livid with the guy. He did something similar in Tel Aviv. I actually thought taking Morrisson off and replacing him with Holland made sense. 4-5-1 would have been stronger defensively, on paper anyway. But, what he admitted afterwards was that he brought on Holland and moved Duff upfront. Yes, so far away from the play that we might as well have taken him off. That was bad enough - but doing it again is inexcusable. Cop on Brian, and Chris Hughton too let's not forget. He's the guy with some of the best official coaching qualifications in european football.

Did Robbie have to go off or was it "precautionary"?

[wallis]

In my opinion Brian Kerr should take most of the blame for what happened (not the playacting obviously).We had everything under control. Kilbane was bullying the midfield,supporting Holland, and Duff and Reid were giving us easy passing options. I thought Harte and Duff were having loads of possession and causing the Isrealis all sorts of problems. When RK went off he should have made a straight swop with Elliot, not bring on Kav , move KK to the left and Duff up front. When are we going to realise that Duff is not a centre forward. When you move him to that position there are too many defenders round him for him to find space. He is better picking up the ball in deep positions and attacking the fullback. Once we changed it, we lost the shape and had 15 mins where Israel took the game to us.

Even in the second half, pushing Duff wide and moving KK forward to support morrison would have been a better idea. I lost count of the number of times KK was out on the touchline crossing a ball when he should have been in the box as he was winning almost every header he challenged for.

It was a bad tactical decision but at least we are still in it. Lets make sure we learn some lessons for the France/Swiss games and someone teaches John 'all day' O'Shea that smacking a ball into row Z first time is not a bad idea !

[livehead1]

f*ck this....its ridiculous. people simply reguritate the same slander and stupid remarks in every post on different threads regarding the national team...always something along the line of kerr's negativity (we were still attacking them when they scored their 2 goals, morrisons missed chance is testament to this) and the reid's overweight...please god shut the f*ck up..the man is a good player in is well built, simple as. kerr does have weaknesses, as does every single human being but at the end of the day the same people slating him now are probably the same ones praising him when we beat the czech republic and drew with brazil and france.

[Stuttgart88]

So Livehead, you don't think it was a bad idea to move Duff upfront to where he can cause least damage?

[brine3]

Holland was having a good game.

Yeah, that's right, they beat Romania 2-0 at home.

[thejollyrodger]

Kerr is to blame cos he is the manager... it is as simple as that.

If we won he is god, if not he is a fool.

He made a bad substituion and we were unlucky the way the game went..

We can still do it.. none of the other four teams are really top class tbf

[tonycuna]

Kerr is to blame cos he is the manager... it is as simple as that.
If we won he is god, if not he is a fool.
He made a bad substitution and we were unlucky the way the game went..
We can still do it.. none of the other four teams are really top class tbf

I believe the same thing. I don't want to put blame over BK. When he made the change Kavanagh for Robbie, I said:"ok, it can be a solution".. Then, obviously, after one-two from them, I said:"And now without that forward instead Kav?", but at that moment, with 2-0 up and no one in front of us, it could be ok. They made two shoots-->two goals, c'mon, it's a not a prior matter of BK's decisions. I think, first of all, it's a matter of unluck

[sonofstan]

[QUOTE=Slash/ED]what the ****? is that some sort of joke?

well .... posted my original message after working all night from straight after the game - on reflection - and after some sleep - it was a little wild. Still rate Kilbane though... the jibe about Kerr I take back

I

[Irish Pride]

For the first 27minutes, Kerr got it spot on in the tactics department. We were 3-0 up and hammering them only for Robbies goal to be off-side and for him to go off. So Kerr had a choice to make.......go for striker/striker or go for striker/midfeilder and chance the shape of the team. kerr went for the second and moved the whole team around. Which is when Israel took full advantage and scored from 2 set peices.

Second half we are trying everything to score and israel are trying every trick in the book to time waste. But Kerr takes off Reid for Doc.......Now Kerr has said Ireland cant play the long ball game anymore, we dont have the players........so why bring on Doc to do that?

So Kerr had a choice to make and he made the wrong one but i believe it was a fluke result for israel, they had 2 chances....and scored. Kerr should not be sacked. He is only in the job 2 years and needs time. Everyone was saying He was brilliant when he got us back in the mix for Euro 2004 and brilliant when we had all those friendlys in 2004. We are still undefected, and it is still in our hands. But if we fail to go to Germany......it will be down to the 2 Israel games because we have droped 4 points against them.

Morrison missed sitters and how Duff didnt score with that header was amazing.

And as for O'Shea...........My god was he bad. not just the peno but he passing was horrible. I think he should be droped after that and the defence should be Harte....Cunninghan....O'Brian....Carr/Finnan cause O'Shea needs to kop on to himself and wake up.

I was delighted for Harte,(and for me. i had him to score first at 20/1) he had a good game and i hope that is him back in the squad.

But its still all to play for. If we win the rest of out games we will be going to Germany. Oh, and well done to the fans who sang "Were going to Germany when we went 1-0" i new that would jinx us. :rolleyes:

[Xlex]

I was really annoyed that Kerr brought Kavanagh on for Keane, It wasn't about changing the shape of the team, I hoped that that the reason he was doing this was simply to stich Duff up front. I know he's sub-standard there but I thought it retained the shape.

Kav is a decent championship standard player and for all the talk of him captaining Wigan in the premiership I think that all he amounts to is a begger mans Roy Keane.

I'm sitting in the 'brutal defending cost us this game' camp and need not follow up what others have said on this thread. Management cannot be blamed for that...

Judgement on management should always be at the end of the qualifying. No doubt failure will point at the Isreali games and the point in Basle, so far... Success will be despite being unlucky to have such poor luck yesterday...

[zinedineontour]

I was really annoyed that Kerr brought Kavanagh on for Keane, It wasn't about changing the shape of the team, I hoped that that the reason he was doing this was simply to stich Duff up front. I know he's sub-standard there but I thought it retained the shape.

Kav is a decent championship standard player and for all the talk of him captaining Wigan in the premiership I think that all he amounts to is a begger mans Roy Keane.

I'm sitting in the 'brutal defending cost us this game' camp and need not follow up what others have said on this thread. Management cannot be blamed for that...

Judgement on management should always be at the end of the qualifying. No doubt failure will point at the Isreali games and the point in Basle, so far... Success will be despite being unlucky to have such poor luck yesterday...

kavanagh for keane was the only suitable substitution ffs.. so kerr is to blame for the lads missing easy chances, the keeper getting obrien sent off , them getting a free that wasnt for first goal a peno that wasnt for second goal and not giving us three clear pens.. all brians fault .. get a grip you mupppets .. we will win our next four games and top the group

[jimbob117]

kavanagh for keane was the only suitable substitution ffs..

Was it really? was elliot not an option? silly comment.

[onenilgameover]

kavanagh for keane was the only suitable substitution ffs.. so kerr is to blame for the lads missing easy chances, the keeper getting obrien sent off , them getting a free that wasnt for first goal a peno that wasnt for second goal and not giving us three clear pens.. all brians fault .. get a grip you mupppets .. we will win our next four games and top the group


How can you think Kavanagh for Keane was the right decision?????????Thats insane....2 nil up after eleven minutes...bring on a holding midfielder....nice one lads this ones sown up...lets just kick it about for awhile. I don't want to be bad mouthing Kerr too much. Not sure I believe in luck but something funny happened so **** it I'ill blame the gods. Anyhoo if Kerr doesn't take us Germany from the position we were in not even the Gods will save him.

Brian Robson seem like a good idea now? Has Kerr won an important match? He wanna feckin start :confused: :confused:

[mypost]

How can you think Kavanagh for Keane was the right decision?????????Thats insane....2 nil up after eleven minutes...bring on a holding midfielder....nice one lads this ones sown up...lets just kick it about for awhile. I don't want to be bad mouthing Kerr too much. Anyhoo if Kerr doesn't take us Germany from the position we were in not even the Gods will save him.

Has Kerr won an important match? He wanna fecking start :confused: :confused:

Brian Kerr has had 5 big qualifying games in charge, Russia, 2 in Switzerland, and 2 against Israel, taken leads in 4 of them, and couldn't defend any of them. The team appears to have no gameplan when we go in front, so we invite pressure onto us, and teams score against us at will. Personally, I like being favourites for games, it means you have reached a standard that is better than your opponents, which in theory means that you should win. But because of our reputation as no-hope underdogs, we only like to chase games, not win them. We were coasting 2-0 up against Israel, and like in Tel Aviv, we let it slip again. In the World Cup, to lose a lead once is bad luck, to do it again against the same team, is careless, and catastrophic. In both games against Israel, bad substitutions were made, bad tactics were chosen by the coach, and we dropped 4 points to a side we should be able to brush aside easily.

Irish people don't want to be plucky underdogs anymore. We demand success. We are capable of it, and these days we should be able to qualify for tournaments without breaking sweat. The Israel game may have finished 2-2, but to me, it feels like we lost 4-0. It's a truly devastating result to digest over the summer, which a win in the Faroe Islands won't ease the pain of. You get no prizes for beating them or Cyprus. I'm a fan of Kerr, but unfortunately, it appears that he's only capable of beating part-time teams who don't give a monkeys against us. As we are unlikely to qualify now, our exit from the World Cup will promptly lead to his instant dismissal as Irish coach, and he'll only have himself to blame.

[concanta]

I think we are no longer the favourites to qualify but to say that we probably will not qualify is a bit harsh - its all in the balance and I really think that this group is very unpredicatable....I truly beleive if we have ALL and I mean all players - ie this team

Given

Carr
Cunningham
Dunne
O'Shea

Reid
Kilbane
Keane
Duff

Morrison
Keane

against France then we can definitely win......someone needs to get a victory against eachother outta us, isr, france and swiss - that will eliminate the loser from the equation....

First thigns first concentrate on the faroes and get a win - all i ask for is a 2 goal win and no injuries or suspensions...that will be job done
As I said in earlier post I would not be surprised if Israel struggle against the Faroes....they are like the 'old' us they are good at chasing games and fighting back - they will be expected to win easily against the faroes and the away game will not be easy...... if we beat France I think the group is ours but I know that is a massive if.... saw france paly last week and they were impressive but lets consider who they were palying ..... a sh*t hungarian team......we have been impressive in friendlies but its competitive games that count ( as we know to our cost) I still think they have massive issues and it is possible for us to turn them over - we need the crowd 100% behind them and create an occasion like the dutch one in 2001

[tonycuna]

Was it really? was elliot not an option? silly comment.

Elliott for sure..
And what do u think about an other option? Doherty for Keane?
He can do defence and/or attack, so if BK would defend @that moment, he could do it with Doherty, that can play at front at the same way

In my opinion the right options were Elliot or Doherty.. Kav was the very last option at that stage of the match

[drinkfeckarse]

Have to agree with some in that I was worried when he brought Kavanagh in for Robbie. Nothing against Kavanagh at all, he did well enough I felt but Brian Kerr failed his first major test at home with that one decision.

Straight away it handed the Israeli's a boost and gave them the psychological edge. That was it, Brian was happy with 2 nil and felt we could "hold out", play it safe and maybe just maybe, catch them on the break again. It handed the initiative to attack back to them.

The fact he didn't bring Elliott on is another failure on his part. There was never going to be a better oportunity to bring the lad into a competitive fixture rather than a friendly. A like for like swap would've been just the ticket as Robbie was causing a lot of problems.

But no, Brian "played it safe" and when safe fails he resorts to bringing the Doc on (who did well btw) and hoofing it up the park route one style looking for a lucky second ball. An amateur tactic.

Had we got the goal we fully deserved this would've glossed over all this for the vast majority of fans but not me. I still believe we've a great chance of qualifying but Brian Kerr failed dismally when it came to having the courage of his previous convictions and I've a feeling we should get used to this.

[Stuttgart88]

Agree with all of drinkfeckarse, and more. Duff just isn't an option upfront. Proven, proven, proven.

Can I just ask though: was Elliott definitely one of the named subs? I think he was.

[mjpcc]

Elliott for sure..
And what do u think about an other option? Doherty for Keane?
He can do defence and/or attack, so if BK would defend @that moment, he could do it with Doherty, that can play at front at the same way

In my opinion the right options were Elliot or Doherty.. Kav was the very last option at that stage of the match


I agree it was wrong to move Duff. But Elliott for Keane was not an option. If you look back at the posts concerning Eliott before this game most people would agree he has not shown himself ready for the big stage yet. To bring him on after 25 minutes would have been a huge gamble on Kerr's part.

The real problem is we do not have many striker options and Kerr had very limited choices.

It is definitely a worry that we can not defend a lead and I have my doubts about us qualifying now.

[zinedineontour]

we had no option but to put duff up front .. doherty would not have lasted all game .. i dont want to see us booting the ball up in the air every attack but was effective with doc for the last half hour as an impact sub ..elliott is not ready for game of that level yet but with time and games in the prem he will be ... but for the ref and goalie we would be not having this conversation and not due to brian kerr ... you would swear we are world beaters judging by the comments .. we are not ..

[rodoman]

How times have changed about cutting the back off Irish Players. I've seen posts here praising Ian Harte for his goal, BIG DEAL, he did the only thing he can do on a soccer pitch, a free kick, after that he's useless, he played with Levante in Spain last season where are they now, in the second division after relegation. He was woeful in WC 2002, Iremember walking out of the room when he stood up to take the penalty against the Spanish.
I'll be the first to admit that John O'Shea is prone to a few booboos, christ we know that but I feel a lot more comfortable him playing than Harte. As for us to start looking for a new manager I don't think we should start looking yet, and not to start the Irish Press taking the same vein as the English press, blow the team up to be WC winners then kick 'em between the legs when they make errors. Let them have the monopoly on that discracful aspect of journalism, the Irish press have more class than that, except for one malignent little b****x who we have to put up with on RTE everytime the BIG play.