Bulgaria V Republic of Ireland - Thursday, 3rd September 2020 - UEFA Nations League

[Bielsa´s irish]

I agree. Hendrick for me is a superior player to McCarthy.

i disagree. Hendrick is a lapse player. McCarthy is our main midfielder and football brain, I agree with SK

[DeLorean]

I agree. Hendrick for me is a superior player to McCarthy.

Even though some guys on a Burnley forum didn't care that their record signing (at the time) went on a free?

[youngirish]

Even though some guys on a Burnley forum didn't care that their record signing (at the time) went on a free?

Yes because I never said he was a world beater like some on here go on about McCarthy. Add to that Burnley are a better team than Crystal Palace. I can see you are struggling with the finer points of these comparisons but even you must see the difference here.

Also did most of the Burnley fans think he wasn't good enough to start in their team whilst there?

[pineapple stu]

I can see you are struggling with the finer points of these comparisons but even you must see the difference here.
Jesus YI - this isn't boards here. Would you relax. You can make a point without coming across so aggressive.

[Bielsa´s irish]

Yes because I never said he was a world beater like some on here go on about McCarthy. Add to that Burnley are a better team than Crystal Palace. I can see you are struggling with the finer points of these comparisons but even you must see the difference here.

Also did most of the Burnley fans think he wasn't good enough to start in their team whilst there?
Crystal Palace lost like 7 game in a row, but they were a better side before that hiatus


I watched a Matty Holland interview where he stated something similar about what i said.

sit hourihane as a cover of the back 4 as a central mid. and free Jimbo McCarthy's energy, and assets in a more advanced role.

[tetsujin1979]

i disagree. Hendrick is a lapse player. McCarthy is our main midfielder and football brain, I agree with SK
Kenny picked both players

[Bielsa´s irish]

Kenny picked both players

Check a Matty Holland interview where he stated something similar about what i said.

Sit hourihane as a cover of the back 4 as a central mid. and free Jimbo McCarthy's energy, and assets in a more advanced role.

Take the game by the scruff of the neck.

[Diggs246]

I think Hendrick is getting Whelan-like flak- some will have a pop regardless of the performance. I thought he was really good Thursday. He was really good especially when you consider his midfield partners didn't make much impact on the game whilst he tried really hard and showed flashes of quality.
Ah jayus ole ole, Hendricks was a 6 out of 10 at best. McCarthy was a 5 and conor wasn't involved enough to rate

[DeLorean]

Yes because I never said he was a world beater like some on here go on about McCarthy. Add to that Burnley are a better team than Crystal Palace. I can see you are struggling with the finer points of these comparisons but even you must see the difference here.

You overestimate me, I think you're splitting hairs to be honest re: Burnley/Palace. Neither did I see anybody putting McCarthy forward as a "world beater". I'm sure any comments were in the context of our own situation, where the return of an established PL midfielder may be seen in a positive light.


Also did most of the Burnley fans think he wasn't good enough to start in their team whilst there?

I didn't scroll their message boards to know for sure, but I'm sure you'll find whatever you need to prove me wrong (or right).

[brine3]

If ya want to play international football ya have to be prepared to take the potential hits that go with it. Perhaps he would be better concentrating on his club career. International football has not worked out for him so far anyway.

Really, it has not worked out for him? I must have imagined him anchoring the midfield that got us all the way to the knockout phases of Euro 2016.

[seanfhear]

Really, it has not worked out for him? I must have imagined him anchoring the midfield that got us all the way to the knockout phases of Euro 2016.
If you erased all James McCarthy’s efforts for Ireland very few Irish fans would notice much / anything gone. He obviously had ability /potential when he was a young player. Did well for wigan, Ok for Everton for Awhile. Probably due to injury and perhaps even being over played as a young player he has never fulfilled what some people thought he could be. It happens to lost of players for all sorts of reasons.

At this stage of his career he is lower to bottom of the Premier League Player. He certainly has not performed for Ireland as some have hoped he would. He couldn’t force Glenn Whelan ( Glenn was what he was, but nobody would say he was a world Beater ) out of the Irish team for his supposed best position.

Some Irish Fans are always on about a Messiah ( usually the fella that is not there ). Sometimes the “ Messiah “ is not the Messiah.

[brine3]

Have a look at the buildup to Wes Hoolahan's goal against Sweden. We attack, and the Swedes clear the ball. McCarthy anticipates exactly where the Swedes are going to clear the ball to, and intercepts it before the Swedish midfielder can even get there.McCarthy doesn't dwell on the ball either, he knows exactly what he is going to do with the ball before he even gets to it, he is going to play it out to Coleman.

It's an exact example of tidy midfield work that doesn't get noticed. No booming thundering tackle, no defence splitting pass. Just knowing exactly where to stand and exactly what to do. Doing the small things right. Stuff like that is rarer than you'd think in a player.

I remember when I was playing football. I was a right back. One season we had a dimwit coach who criticised me for not making enough tackles and not imposing myself on the game. He dropped me. In the next match, we were hammered, with the other team's assists coming down our right. Turns out I never had to tackle as a right back, because I knew where to stand.

[Briuk]

Have a look at the buildup to Wes Hoolahan's goal against Sweden. We attack, and the Swedes clear the ball. McCarthy anticipates exactly where the Swedes are going to clear the ball to, and intercepts it before the Swedish midfielder can even get there.McCarthy doesn't dwell on the ball either, he knows exactly what he is going to do with the ball before he even gets to it, he is going to play it out to Coleman.

It's an exact example of tidy midfield work that doesn't get noticed. No booming thundering tackle, no defence splitting pass. Just knowing exactly where to stand and exactly what to do. Doing the small things right. Stuff like that is rarer than you'd think in a player.

I remember when I was playing football. I was a right back. One season we had a dimwit coach who criticised me for not making enough tackles and not imposing myself on the game. He dropped me. In the next match, we were hammered, with the other team's assists coming down our right. Turns out I never had to tackle as a right back, because I knew where to stand.

When talking about tackling I always remember this piece from Xabi Alonso

One of the Premier League’s most successful imports, Xabi Alonso, perhaps gave the most damning testimony as to why England can’t crack it at international level. “I don’t think tackling is a quality,” he said. “At Liverpool I used to read the matchday programme and you’d read an interview with a lad from the youth team. They’d ask: age, heroes, strong points, etc. He’d reply: ‘Shooting and tackling’. I can’t get into my head that football development would educate tackling as a quality, something to learn, to teach, a characteristic of your play. How can that be a way of seeing the game? I just don’t understand football in those terms. Tackling is a [last] resort and you will need it, but it isn’t a quality to aspire to, a definition.”
He ends by touching on the biggest problem facing the next generation of England players. “It’s hard to change because it’s so rooted in the English football culture.” During our games it is noticeable that every 50-50 challenge is met with a roar of approval from the crowd and even if you don’t win the ball, often there is a ripple of applause. For some players it is how they’re accepted and how they judge whether they’ve had a good or bad game.

[paul_oshea]

Yes because I never said he was a world beater like some on here go on about McCarthy. Add to that Burnley are a better team than Crystal Palace. I can see you are struggling with the finer points of these comparisons but even you must see the difference here.

Also did most of the Burnley fans think he wasn't good enough to start in their team whilst there?

You need to speak slowly and clearly for del. He'll pick the 3% argument of a point made and use that as a battering ram.

Personally I thought Hendrick did well Thursday. The best of a poor lot but no one else seems to agree because they're clouded by a 45 min showing from one or two others.

[Stuttgart88]

You need to speak slowly and clearly for del. He'll pick the 3% argument of a point made and use that as a battering ram.
i think you’re talking about yourself there Paul. Give it a rest. Tedious beyond belief.

[seanfhear]

It would have been handy if James McCarthy had got a tackle of a block on the Bulgarian Fella the other night all the same.

[DeLorean]

You need to speak slowly and clearly for del. He'll pick the 3% argument of a point made and use that as a battering ram.

Personally I thought Hendrick did well Thursday. The best of a poor lot but no one else seems to agree because they're clouded by a 45 min showing from one or two others.

Always rated Hendrick myself.

[paul_oshea]

You did! I didn't and haven't but I can acknowledge when I see a decent performance. Still though 1 summer doesn't make a swallow

[Olé Olé]

The Welsh are struggling to break down Bulgaria at home. 0-0 after 65 mins. The share of the ball has been pretty even. This would be a great result for us if we can win today ourselves.

[Bielsa´s irish]

The Welsh are struggling to break down Bulgaria at home. 0-0 after 65 mins. The share of the ball has been pretty even. This would be a great result for us if we can win today ourselves.

the welsh just scored in injury time.. Neco Williams. Neco!!! im not afraid of the welsh team, beatable

[DeLorean]

You did! I didn't and haven't but I can acknowledge when I see a decent performance. Still though 1 summer doesn't make a swallow

Big of you, he'll be thrilled.

[pineapple stu]

I don't get Wales at all.

Are they any good or what?

European semi-finalists - and it wasn't entirely unexpected - and yet very ordinary results other than that

[youngirish]

You need to speak slowly and clearly for del. He'll pick the 3% argument of a point made and use that as a battering ram.

Personally I thought Hendrick did well Thursday. The best of a poor lot but no one else seems to agree because they're clouded by a 45 min showing from one or two others.
There's a lot of that on here and has been for years. James 'Iniesta' McCarthy the world class Crystal Palace bench warmer has been dropped tonight so we'll see how the new midfield does.

Even if its a brilliant performance you'll see the usual come out of the woodwork to say that's because Hourihane or Hendrick have been dropped even though they were both better than McCarthy on Thursday.

And DeLorean I'm not talking about you before you reply saying you never said he was excellent I'm talking about the comments regarding McCarthy being our best midfielder by far, irreplaceable and we don't deserve him.

[BonnieShels]

Great to see you back, chief. You didn't even gloat on the 5.
much respect.

You don't need to gloat when ye're the GOAT.

Also I'll wait for the sixth to do that. :)

[Bielsa´s irish]

There's a lot of that on here and has been for years. James 'Iniesta' McCarthy the world class Crystal Palace bench warmer has been dropped tonight so we'll see how the new midfield does.

Even if its a brilliant performance you'll see the usual come out of the woodwork to say that's because Hourihane or Hendrick have been dropped even though they were both better than McCarthy on Thursday.

And DeLorean I'm not talking about you before you reply sayign you never said he was excellent I'm talking about the comments regarding McCarthy being our best midfielder by far, irreplaceable and we don't deserve him.

hey kid it was shown today. If fit Jimbo McCarthy is irreplaceable.

The question mark is...according to Matty Holland..where.to.place.JImbo? for me further on the pitch to dictate the tempo of the match.

[tetsujin1979]

We don't use nicknames here.

[Eirambler]

I don't get Wales at all.

Are they any good or what?

European semi-finalists - and it wasn't entirely unexpected - and yet very ordinary results other than that

The Euro semi final was a bit of an outlier - they are in no way one of the top four teams in Europe.

However, they have a small number of exceptional players at the moment, Bale and Ramsey particularly of course, that gives them an edge on the other middle of the road European teams, such as ourselves. That really does make a huge difference - I've seen Bale pretty much single handedly drag them out of a potentially embarrassing situation against Andorra a few years ago and Ramsey was crucial towards the end of the Euro campaign in terms of their late run to qualification.

I think Giggs is more of a handicap to them than a help and when you take either of the two lads out of the team they look very ordinary. But for the next couple of campaigns they'll still have them available so will still have that advantage for now. 2022 is huge for Wales, if those two retire without Wales reaching a World Cup it will be hugely disappointing for them and the "country" (or whatever Wales is, I'm not sure), they blew it against us in 2017 and after 2022 they will probably never have as good a chance to qualify again.

[paul_oshea]

There's a lot of that on here and has been for years. James 'Iniesta' McCarthy the world class Crystal Palace bench warmer has been dropped tonight so we'll see how the new midfield does.

Even if its a brilliant performance you'll see the usual come out of the woodwork to say that's because Hourihane or Hendrick have been dropped even though they were both better than McCarthy on Thursday.

And DeLorean I'm not talking about you before you reply saying you never said he was excellent I'm talking about the comments regarding McCarthy being our best midfielder by far, irreplaceable and we don't deserve him.

I know, the thanks brigade as I christened them. Its mainly why I stopped posting on here for a long while. But now we have got some of the good, old, sensible and most importantly reality biting posters back, i'm frequenting foot.ie again more often.

[Stuttgart88]

Hang on, so the "thanks brigade" are the same people who are the most positive about McCarthy? I'd be curious to know who you consider to be a member of your "thanks brigade" and then to see what their views on McCarthy have been.

And generally, we all have opinions. None is more grounded in reality than any others. An opinion that coincides with yours is no less real than any other opinion. You should really get over yourself.

But I'm glad that you included "old" posters as reason for your increased output here.

[youngirish]

Hang on, so the "thanks brigade" are the same people who are the most positive about McCarthy? I'd be curious to know who you consider to be a member of your "thanks brigade" and then to see what their views on McCarthy have been.

C'mon Stutts you have to admit that some of the posts on here about a very average Premiership midfielder being a far superior player to other admittedly quite average Premiership midfielders have been ridiculous.

Look through some of the previous posts about James McCarthy on this and his own thread. There are mentions of us not losing when he plays which was shown to be nonsense, he being irreplaceable (I would say he is replaceable to the extent you wouldn't even notice) and us not deserving of a player of his quality because we criticised him for being poor against Bulgaria as if he was a modern day Keane or Viera.

These opinions are not grounded in reality. Not any reality I exist in since giving up LSD anyway.

[irishfan86]

For me, there’s a group of people who believe McCarthy, despite being unable to fill his potential due to injuries, is still worth starting.

At worst, he’s a deluxe version of Glenn Whelan. That’s not an insult. McCarthy’s reading of the game and positioning are key to protecting our back four.

Where I think McCarthy is better than Whelan is on the ball. Ideally he will be fitter and more engaged next month in driving the team forward. I think a month of matches will make a real difference for him and our other midfielders.

Much of the criticism directed to McCarthy here is straw man stuff. The only people suggesting a comparison to former Barcelona players are his critics, not those advocating for his inclusion.

[paul_oshea]

The question is a new era a new start, realistically are we going to get even 2 more years out of him? I'd say we will be lucky to be honest, certainly not two more(consecutive) years injury free and fully fit.

But its also not like we have any other options.

[Stuttgart88]

C'mon Stutts you have to admit that some of the posts on here about a very average Premiership midfielder being a far superior player to other admittedly quite average Premiership midfielders have been ridiculous

Look through some of the previous posts about James McCarthy on this and his own thread. There are mentions of us not losing when he plays which was shown to be nonsense, he being irreplaceable (I would say he is replaceable to the extent you wouldn't even notice) and us not deserving of a player of his quality because we criticised him for being poor against Bulgaria as if he was a modern day Keane or Viera/

These opinions are not grounded in reality. Not any reality I exist in since giving up LSD anyway.

I'm actually a McCarthy-sceptic myself. I think he's OK but I really want to see more from him. Trap's "shy personalitee" criticism is still true. But I'd have him close or in my XI right now simply because I can see no real other alternative other than Cullen, who I think you and I both like. I tend to pretty much forget about McCarthy anyway because he is so rarely fit youd be mad to base your plans on him. Remember when Stan & Robson stated early that Steven Reid was their main man in CM? I think he played about twice thereafter!

My gripe is really in Paul's post which to me read like "you and me YI, we're the only realistc ones here in general, and it's kind of why I came back. I came up with a funny nickname for all the others who are the ones who are OTT in their appreciation of McCarthy" even though there's no clear link (to me) between this so-called Thanks Brigade and their McCarthy opinions.

So I'm really just asking Paul who are these Thanks Brigade and show me the link to their McCarthy opinions.

[youngirish]

Much of the criticism directed to McCarthy here is straw man stuff. The only people suggesting a comparison to former Barcelona players are his critics, not those advocating for his inclusion.
Not true. Describing someone as irreplaceable, saying we don't lose when they are in the team, saying we don't deserve them because we criticised them slightly due to another abject performance in an Irish shirt are all indications that the player is put on a pedestal above similarly talented midfielders like Hendrick and Hourihane who seem fair game for criticism from the same posters singing McCarthy's praises. To dismiss this fact and say we are criticising him unfairly is nonsense and ignoring the evidence.

[irishfan86]

The point is that McCarthy is available and fit now, and he proved last year, certainly before the COVID restart, that he can be a competent defensive central midfielder in the Premier League. I acknowledge he didn’t look particularly good after the restart but Palace as a whole looked terrible and I don’t attribute the struggles specifically to James or any one player.

We have nobody else available who can play that specific role as the deepest lying central midfielder. I think Cullen COULD play there but is untested — I’d like to see him tried there potentially in a Nations League game next month.

Arter has played there for us but honestly it’s not his best position. A box to box role where we can take advantage of his energy, without being shackled to a holding role is where we’ll get the best out of him.

If we get two years out of McCarthy and that’s it, and it means we get to two major tournaments, that will be a job well done and a nice reward for a player who has missed so much time through no fault of his own, also showing tremendous determination to make comeback after comeback.

[irishfan86]

Not true. Describing someone as irreplaceable, saying we don't lose when they are in the team, saying we don't deserve them because we criticised them slightly due to another abject performance in an Irish shirt are all indications that the player is put on a pedestal above similarly talented midfielders like Hendrick and Hourihane who seem fair game for criticism from the same posters singing McCarthy's praises. To dismiss this fact and say we are criticising him unfairly is nonsense and ignoring the evidence.

Here’s the deal. McCarthy is our only holding/defensive midfielder. Maybe Cullen can usurp him. Hourihane and Hendrick have played that role for us but it’s simply not their role and they rarely do it at club level.

In that sense McCarthy is irreplaceable. We have nobody proven to replace him with, it’s not to suggest a better player doesn’t exist in the world or in our past or future.

In this moment in time, he’s irreplaceable.

[youngirish]

I'm actually a McCarthy-sceptic myself. I think he's OK but I really want to see more from him. Trap's "shy personalitee" criticism is still true. But I'd have him close or in my XI right now simply because I can see no real other alternative other than Cullen, who I think you and I both like. I tend to pretty much forget about McCarthy anyway because he is so rarely fit youd be mad to base your plans on him. Remember when Stan & Robson stated early that Steven Reid was their main man in CM? I think he played about twice thereafter!

My gripe is really in Paul's post which to me read like "you and me YI, we're the only realistc ones here in general, and it's kind of why I came back. I came up with a funny nickname for all the others who are the ones who are OTT in their appreciation of McCarthy" even though there's no clear link (to me) between this so-called Thanks Brigade and their McCarthy opinions.

So I'm really just asking Paul who are these Thanks Brigade and show me the link to their McCarthy opinions.

A sensible response as always Stutts. I have no gripe with McCarthy I just think he's another in a long line of very similar, very average midfielders that have been the bane of the Irish setup for years.

I personally think they all should start to be phased out and thankfully it looks to me that Kenny will do just that.

Start replacing them with Molumby, Cullen, Browne, Smallbone, Coventry, Taylor and Shipley provided these guys can get regular football this season at Championship level or higher and we may have a team in 3 or 4 years that can challenge for qualification. With these old journeymen in the team we won't qualify for the next World Cup anyway so let's roll the dice, take the risk and see what falls out. It couldn't be much worse than what we've had to endure over the past few seasons..

[paul_oshea]

I'm actually a McCarthy-sceptic myself. I think he's OK but I really want to see more from him. Trap's "shy personalitee" criticism is still true. But I'd have him close or in my XI right now simply because I can see no real other alternative other than Cullen, who I think you and I both like. I tend to pretty much forget about McCarthy anyway because he is so rarely fit youd be mad to base your plans on him. Remember when Stan & Robson stated early that Steven Reid was their main man in CM? I think he played about twice thereafter!

My gripe is really in Paul's post which to me read like "you and me YI, we're the only realistc ones here in general, and it's kind of why I came back. I came up with a funny nickname for all the others who are the ones who are OTT in their appreciation of McCarthy" even though there's no clear link (to me) between this so-called Thanks Brigade and their McCarthy opinions.

So I'm really just asking Paul who are these Thanks Brigade and show me the link to their McCarthy opinions.

I'm happy to do a top ten reveal, when things settle down here. There'll be anticipation no doubt, but rest assured you'll be well in there. You can be sure of that.

[Stuttgart88]

Jeepers, I'm horrified that you've identified me as someone who regularly uses the thanks button for what it's actually meant for, you know for when I agree with most of a post or for showing good manners to appreciate a well made argument even if I don't agree with it.

[SkStu]

We don't use nicknames here.

Well said, Tets.

[Charlie Darwin]

Midfield and holding onto possesion was always our bone of contention and now our salvation is to play with 3 up front :rolleyes:

When Bulgaria scored, most of the focus went on who made the last mistake, who can we blame, the useless so and so.
The first mistake was the suicidal cross field pass, bad mistakes in midfield can happen but then whatshisnameov received the ball in an acre of space and could deliver the peach perfect pass though the gap between the centre halfs, because we had no covering midfielder who would have been in that space ready to put pressure on him.
The midfield 3 were working on different scripts.
iI the 2 or 3 televised games i saw with Jack Byrne, he likes to receive the ball anywhere on the pitch. To claim he's not of the standard to play against Bulgaria or Slovakia for that matter doesn't make sense.
I think he just doesn't fit into this particular vision of 433.
The last line is where I'd disagree with you. Kenny built his first league-winning Dundalk team around Richie Towell doing exactly what Byrne does - basically being the first link with the defence and the last link with the attack. He changed after Towell left not because he'd changed his ideas but because he didn't have anybody as good as Towell.

[tetsujin1979]

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