Potential Merger of the FAI and The IFA

[student]

I'm currently preparing a thesis as part of my masters course on the possibility of a merger between the FAI and the IFA. I know that this topic has been discussed before so i apologise for bringing it up again. However i would be very interested in hearing people's views on the topic especially on some of the specific aspects of the merger such as:

Would people be supportive of such a merger?
What would the potential benefits of a merger be?
What are the factors mitigating against such a merger?
What are the chances of such a merger occuring?

Obviously having spent some time looking into this myself i have developed views on the matter but i would be very appreciative of anyone who would be willing to share their insights on the topic.

Thanks in advance!!!

[Neish]

Would people be supportive of such a merger?
Yes

What would the potential benefits of a merger be?

More exciting season. With the possibility of 3 or even 4 different leagues.Better for travelling to away games(Clubs like Harps,Derry, Monaghan have round trips ranging from 2 hrs - 15/16hrs whilst geting to away matchs most players in these clubs have other jobs meaning they have to take time off these jobs to play for their club) If we had a FAI and IFA merger such clubs would have away days a lot nearer

What are the factors mitigating against such a merger?
As we seen in recent weeks, there has been trouble caused bu so called supporters of certain clubs in the north(ie Linfeild Glentoran cup final)

What are the chances of such a merger occuring?

[goattail]

1. Yes.

2. More and new clubs to play against and more top quality teams (relativly speaking) in the Premier division. Three divisions, the top two at least being stronger overall.

3. Three less Irish teams in Europe every year. Getting the FAI and IFA officials to co-operate and getting rid of half of them.

4. Eventually it will happen just not anytime soon.

[CollegeTillIDie]

1/ Yes in principle

2/ Jim Boyce replacing John Delaney appeals to some of us down South.
A fully professional League might become possible.

3/ Summer soccer Vs The Marching season could cause a few problems.
A July shut down could address this.

4/The new organisation would be called the IFA after all as they will remind you North of the Border the FAI broke away from them.

[LukeO]

3/ Summer soccer Vs The Marching season could cause a few problems.
A July shut down could address this.



I understand and respect your point, but surely closing down for the month of July would make having a "summer" league totally pointless?

Aside from the obvious potential sectarian fears from clubs from both side of the border that could arise, the time of year that both leagues are held could prove a stumbling block.

Would clubs north of the border be in favour of switching to a summer league?

Personally, although I am strongly in favour of summer soccer, I would be willing to sacrifice this if it meant our league merging with the north's, such are rewards Irish soccer would reap should such an event occur.

[crc]

Would people be supportive of such a merger?
Personally Yes. Most people in the south would also be in favour, but there are a few who wouldn't be. In the north, most Catholics would be in favour, but among Protestants the opinion is more reticent. I get the feeling that those in the north who would oppose a merger would be more against a single national team than a single league.


What would the potential benefits of a merger be?
Apart from the obvious nationalist aspiration of uniting one of the last divided sporting communities in Ireland, there would be clear sporting benefits:

1. The league structure would have greater critical mass. There are some pretty competitive clubs in both the eL and the IL (Linfield, Glentoran, Portadown, Shels, Cork, Derry, Bohs, Drogs, and others down the years), but there are also more than a few light-weights in both; a unified league would be more competitive and more appealing.

2. The national team would have a greater chance of success that two separate ones. Obviously simply asking the question "who out of the current NI team would get into Kerr's squad?" is a false economy. The success would more likely than not be over the longer term. Think of the great players from Ireland who haven't had a chance to play in the world cup because they didn't have enough good team mates to get them there (Best, Giles, Brady, Neil Lennon - I'm not trying to compare NL to the other three, but under a single Ireland team he probably would have played in Japan & Korea). These players would have a much greater chance of representing their country on the world stage. An Irish team has been at five of the last six World Cups, but there was a large barren period during the sixties and seventies.


What are the factors mitigating against such a merger?
Opposition from Unionsists.
Opposition from those within FAI and IFA who would risk losing their jobs.
Technical problems like where would the international team play and what format the leagues would take, but these are by no means insurmountable.
It has also been suggested that crowd trouble might be a potential problem, but I think that the Setanta Cup has shown that it wouldn't be too big of a problem. There were only a few isolated incidents (from yobs mainly, and Linfield's nasty minority) but no major trouble. Its likely that even this will dissipate once the novelty of north-v-south games wears off.

What are the chances of such a merger occuring?
Probably not that great, due to inertia on both sides. I think the two associations should first form an Irish Football Federation (IFF) which would allow both to keep their independence, but would provide an arena to organise north-south matters, and possibly provide a fore-runner to a unified stucture if that was ever wished. In the short-term, the IFF would continue to ensure that a north-south competition continued if Setanta decided to pull out. My personal favourite would be to scrap the league cup and replace it with a regionalised north-south league cup which had an all-Ireland series running from the quarter final stage.

[Macy]

1) A merger of the two leagues would have support I think, national teams/association less so. Obviously amongst nationalists/republicans north and south it would have support, but not amongst unionists I wouldn't think so.

2) More competitive league, with a decent number (16-18 I'd hope) playing home and away once (no more uneven league). Increased media coverage - e.g. Final Score NI, The Soccer Show on UTV Thursday night as well as TV3's sham of a show.

More competition for the national team squad - first team may be dominated by FAI players, but not so convinced the squad would.
Lansdowne already home to an All Ireland team, and due to be redeveloped, and the new stadium at the Maze site would avoid any Windsor Park "issues".

3) Unionist opposition (even if it wasn't opposed by Irish League fans).
Different league calendars (I'd prefer the old winter season tbh - maybe a compromise starting earlier so a few series of matches before Europe).
Blazers voting for merger, would be like turkey's voting for Christmas

4) Can't see a merger of the IFA and FAI in anything other than the very long term. I could, however, see a merger between the Irish League and the League of Ireland.

[Crusader Al]

Could I just add that loads of football will be played in Northern Ireland during this "marching season", ie Champions League / UEFA / Intertoto Cups, UEFA U19 Final Championships, Milk Cup, Foyle Cup, as well as a host of pre-season friendlies many featuring sides from the mainland .......

[drummerboy]

I think fans, players and managers from both sides of the border would welcome one governing body, ie one league on the island. However, the administrators would never heard tell of it. It would be like Turkeys voting for Xmas.

[A face]

Might be an idea to sticky this fella ..... i'll get to it soon !!

[Ronnie]

Yes in principle.

I think the clubs would benefit greatly and soccer on the island should grow as a spectator sport.

Against the merger I think you would need to keep 2 national teams - supporters of Linfield for example support NI, not the Republic, not England.

Clubs access to Europe - how many times over the last 20 years have Linfield and Glentoran qualified for Europe? Maybe 18 times. If they played in one league that would be a lot harder to achieve consistently.

Security issues. This I beleive is the biggest problem, one element is the town or city a game is played, but a far bigger problem might be in the towns supporters stop in on the way or coming home.

Realistically if the Setanta Cup continues to be a success an open cup competition might be a possibility.

[anto eile]

the only people against would be the w*nkers in blazers

the suggestion of 3 divisions is a bad one imo.having 3 or 4 divisions would be disastrous with poor crowds at such a low tier

id prefer 2 divisions of 16 or 18 ,with the first divison containing all the big teams.then the 2nd division with next best teams.
then below that the regional leagues like leinster senior league,connacht/ulster senior league,mid-ulster league(?) and munster senior league,with playoffs from winners of the senior leagues and bottom of 2nd div to compete for a place in the 2nd division.

if the leagues merge but the associations dont then you could have the first division with the big teams and then regionalise the 2nd division along north/south lines-so the fai and ifa could still govern something.

regarding qualifying for europe.no-one has aright to do it,so if its harder for teams because the league is more competitive then thats just tough $hit.

if the fai/ifa dont merge they can still nominate a team- ie linfield finish 4th in the allireland league,but they are the highest of the northern teams,so ifa nominate them for NIs place in champs league. and Rovers finish top so fai nominate them for the FAIs plac ein champs league

basically if the blazers are willing to forward the cause of irish football north and south, then they make an all Ireland league work

[Anto McC]

Would people be supportive of such a merger?
Most people would,I personally wouldn't

What would the potential benefits of a merger be?

It would make the standard of football better and would get rid of the fact that you seem to be playingthe same team every few weeks

What are the factors mitigating against such a merger?

one of the less complicated factors is,Could we really let Shamrock Rovers and Linfield in the same league together without there being crowd trouble

What are the chances of such a merger occuring?

Reasonable at moment,but highly likely in the future if the Setanta cup is a sucsess

[garykelly]

Would people be supportive of such a merger?

Of course, it's the logical move forward to progress football and the quality of it in the north and south

What would the potential benefits of a merger be?

More interest, more sponsors, more passion, more competitiveness, wider appeal for tv, more pressure on clubs to do things right. would be excellent for everyone.

What are the factors mitigating against such a merger?

All politics i'm afraid. would be seen by some as a step towards a unified ireland, which wouldnt go down to well at all. becuase of the political situation and trouble it would cause it prob will not happen.

What are the chances of such a merger occuring?

Not very good in terms of a merger, becuase of what i mentioned above. the way to go is continued expansion to the setanta competition. make it bigger, offer more money for winners, and make it play out on wk'ds instead of week days.

[-lamb-]

a few points

1- i don't think too many here would be prepared to lose our national team. i could envisage our fans feeling disenfranchised due to lack of our players in the team.

2- a) although 1 main league may raise the quality, the added distances would kill off any large away support (and lets face it, good away support is what adds atmosphere to any football match)
b) as well as the point above, i'm not sure how keen fans up here are with playing the majority of their matches away from saturday afternoons. friday night football is a bit hit and miss from what i've seen. 1 match will have a great attendance, another will be awful.

3- IF there was 1 top league would the lower leagues be regionalised or not? attendances for these aren't great as it is and would get worse imo if not regionalised. i'd imagine the bottom teams of our respective div1s wouldn't be happy about being put into a non-regionalised third division.

4- great potential for sponsorship and tv deals

[thejollyrodger]

Yes in principle. I just dont want it to be called the IFA. They have to merge into the FAI.

[crc]

2- a) although 1 main league may raise the quality, the added distances would kill off any large away support (and lets face it, good away support is what adds atmosphere to any football match)The distances in a single league wouldn't be too different from those currently in the eL - after all, Dublin teams currently have to travel to Derry, Donegal, Cork and Waterford. I don't think the atmosphere suffers when away fans don't turn up, it suffers when home fans don't turn up! A couple of trips to Belfast / mid-Ulster wouldn't be too different from the current situation in the eL.


b) as well as the point above, i'm not sure how keen fans up here are with playing the majority of their matches away from saturday afternoons. friday night football is a bit hit and miss from what i've seen. 1 match will have a great attendance, another will be awful.
The clubs alone decide what day of the week the games are played on. Its just by chance that most eL clubs currently play on Friday night. Derry used to play on Thursday nights and Cork used to play on Sunday morning. I do like the idea of having standardised kick-off times, but I don't think there would be a problem if clubs were alowed to play either on Friday at 7.45pm, or Saturday at 3pm.



I just dont want it to be called the IFA. They have to merge into the FAI. Why??? :confused:
I don't think anyone should merge into anybody else. Parity of esteem is what we need in Ireland, not the attitude that "everything should be done our way"!

[Slash/ED]

a few points

1- i don't think too many here would be prepared to lose our national team. i could envisage our fans feeling disenfranchised due to lack of our players in the team.

2- a) although 1 main league may raise the quality, the added distances would kill off any large away support (and lets face it, good away support is what adds atmosphere to any football match)
b) as well as the point above, i'm not sure how keen fans up here are with playing the majority of their matches away from saturday afternoons. friday night football is a bit hit and miss from what i've seen. 1 match will have a great attendance, another will be awful.

3- IF there was 1 top league would the lower leagues be regionalised or not? attendances for these aren't great as it is and would get worse imo if not regionalised. i'd imagine the bottom teams of our respective div1s wouldn't be happy about being put into a non-regionalised third division.

4- great potential for sponsorship and tv deals

1 - I agree, the national teams must stay seperate, but the league is a different story imo.

2 - a) Have you seen the size of this minute little Island we live on? This arugment completley baffles me, we're not talking New York to LA for christ sake.

b) Well they can play their home games on saturday as some teams down here do.

3 - I'd have a united premier divison and regionalised lower than that.

[-lamb-]

The distances in a single league wouldn't be too different from those currently in the eL - after all, Dublin teams currently have to travel to Derry, Donegal, Cork and Waterford.
i was thinking more in terms of us northern fans who don't have to travel more than an hour/hour and a half max as things stand now. institute being the exception now omagh are no more. i think you might find we've just never been used to it and added expense will put a lot of people off.
waterford/cork/sligo/cobh/longford to me are a fair old distance.


I don't think the atmosphere suffers when away fans don't turn up, it suffers when home fans don't turn up! A couple of trips to Belfast / mid-Ulster wouldn't be too different from the current situation in the eL.
not sure if i agree with you. i think a good away crowd really gives things a buzz. plus IF(!) larne made it into any top league i know i'd miss more away games than i'd like to, whereas now i haven't missed any in quite a while.


Why??? :confused:
I don't think anyone should merge into anybody else. Parity of esteem is what we need in Ireland, not the attitude that "everything should be done our way"!
FAIFA anyone? :D (though really it should be IFA since you're the "splitters" ;))

[crc]

i was thinking more in terms of us northern fans who don't have to travel more than an hour/hour and a half max as things stand now. institute being the exception now omagh are no more. i think you might find we've just never been used to it and added expense will put a lot of people off.
waterford/cork/sligo/cobh/longford to me are a fair old distance.
not sure if i agree with you. i think a good away crowd really gives things a buzz. plus IF(!) larne made it into any top league i know i'd miss more away games than i'd like to, whereas now i haven't missed any in quite a while.
If there was a 16 team league, I'd imagine about 6 or 7 would be current IL teams, one more would be Derry City, 4 or 5 would be from the Dublin area, 2 from north Leinster, and 2 max from Munster. Dublin and Louth are well connected to NI (Train and Motorway), which would only leave 2 or 3 games per season farther away than about 2 hours from Belfast (Cork / Waterford / Longford).
I appreciate that it would still be more that IL fans are used to, but it wouldn't be that much.


though really it should be IFA since you're the "splitters" ;)fine :)

[Colie]

We'd have some real rivalries, not just derbies or Dublin Vs Cork games, some good hard rivalries which I'd defo be buzzin for. Imagine the buzz of UCD beatin Linfield, oh yeah, that would be nice, mind you the Celtic jersey brigade might hijack every Linfield or Glens game......

[garykelly]

[QUOTE=-lamb-]i was thinking more in terms of us northern fans who don't have to travel more than an hour/hour and a half max as things stand now. institute being the exception now omagh are no more. i think you might find we've just never been used to it and added expense will put a lot of people off.
waterford/cork/sligo/cobh/longford to me are a fair old distance.
/QUOTE]

distances work both ways. people wont travel a couple of hundred miles to support their team, yet thousands go to england to watch games in a foreign league and think they are supporters. :confused:

[kid_b]

No offence 'Student', but it sounds like you're a bit slow off the mark on this topic. And investigating it now seems like a complete waste of time to me.

Especially since only last year there was quite a hoopla about some DCU thesis project that did this very thing. They made a documentary that I saw on TV one night. Looked like they interviewed all the main players - Fran Rooney, Jim Boyce, Fifa Vice-President. It was pretty conclusive stuff.

It began with some stuff about the All Ireland XI game against Brazil in the 70s. Was really good actually now that I think of it. You should probably track it down and watch it, and then think of an original idea worth doing a masters thesis on. May I ask what college accepted such a proposal?


Oh, that documentary was called 'where is jairzinho?' or something mad like that. I'm sure somebody on here knows about it???

[student]

No offence 'Student', but it sounds like you're a bit slow off the mark on this topic. And investigating it now seems like a complete waste of time to me.


Just to infrom you Kid_b my thesis is going extremely well. Thankfully not everyone shares your opinion on the subject matter. I've been fortunate enough to have had some very interesting interviews about the topic, with some of the major stakeholders in Irish football.

You seem to have a bit of spare time on your hands at the moment Kid_b so please feel free to answer one of the four questions that i outlined at the start of this thread. And also any further information you could provide on the DCU thesis could prove useful.

I would like to take this opportunity to thank all the people who have already made a post about the topic. Thank you for your very insightful views. And I hope that Kid_b's views wont discourage anyone else from making a post.

[kid_b]

I didn't mean to offend you. I don't have the time or knowledge to reply to your questions in a manner that would be of benefit to your thesis.

I think if you were to follow up my information and find that documentary it would be of more use to you than any of the other replies. It sounds exactly like your thesis, and then some.

Shame you didn't post here a few months ago. You could have gotten a hold of that documentary, transcribed it, and voila - a masters thesis.

I do wonder about the education system in this country sometimes.

[deadman]

http://www.whosjairzinho.com/

[dublinred]

Yes in principle. I just dont want it to be called the IFA. They have to merge into the FAI.

How about AFI and just call the national team Ireland like the rugby play Irelands song and rotate the matches between Dublin and Belfast.

One concern would be the how the fans mix at away international matches , on a league level i prefer winter football not the same having no matches at XMAS , I think some Dublin teams attendances are up and Cork but from what I hear most provincal teams crowds are down due to summer football.

[kid_b]

Student - I've had a look at that www.whosjairzinho.com website and it is the same as the dcu programme that I saw on tv. This is all working out very nicely for you, isn't it.

Why don't you try and get in contact with the makers via the contact us link, get a copy, watch it, transcribe it, and volia - a masters thesis!

I can see it now:

"Dear Makers of this programme,

I am currently rehashing your thesis as my own and would like to see your programme so that I can be true to the original and save time on researching new avenues..."

All things aside, good luck to you with your thesis.

[student]

Thank you for the link Kid_b. However i had actually already made contact with the makers of the documentary and they have been very helpful so far.

However Kid_b I would like to point out that i think you fail to appreciate the work that goes into a masters thesis. Even if i was to re-hash the findings of the documentary it would only make up about 10% of the total work involved. However fortunately I have no reason to re-hash the findings. I have already conducted a number of interviews across a wide range of stakeholders in Irish Football and I have collected nearly all the data i require.

The data acquired in this thread is not actually used in the thesis itself. This thread is used simply to identify issues that i may have overlooked which are pertinant for the study. These issues are then examined in interviews with the experts (or so called experts in some cases).

On another point kid_b i would like to clarify that although the subject matter of my thesis and the documentary are the same, there is vast differences between our respective approaches. The DCU study is a multimedia project whereas my study is an academic based study which looks at the technical issues involved from both a business and strategic management perspective. so there is vast differences between the data needed in both studies

Finally thanks again for bringing my attention to this documentary. It is much appreciated.

[kid_b]

the subject matter of my thesis and the documentary are the same,

Like I said - they're the same. Now we are singing off from the same hymn sheet. Do Protestants have hymns? Maybe you can tell me from the research you have conducted?

I am glad I was of help to you, and that you have taken my advice and contacted those jairzinho people. I hope they are more helpful than I have been.

You should probably stop wasting valuable thesis time explaining minute differences to people like me, as I lost interest once you mentioned all that 'stategic management' gobbledegook.