Fran Gavin

[pineapple stu]

And we've established you're clearly biased because Scanlon is a Rovers man.

Hopefully he's not as biased towards your club in his role.
In fairness though, RH has a point. You say Scanlon was hired purely because he was an internal candidate, but you admit you don't know about his qualifications or previous experience. You've asked what his previous role entails (which makes it hard for you to decide it's not relevant), and "Come on now" is your only response to his Master's Degree.

There may be valid counter-arguments against Scanlon's appointment, but they're not the ones you've made.

How have you established RH's bias by the way?

[The Lilywhites]

In fairness though, RH has a point. You say Scanlon was hired purely because he was an internal candidate, but you admit you don't know about his qualifications or previous experience. You've asked what his previous role entails (which makes it hard for you to decide it's not relevant), and "Come on now" is your only response to his Master's Degree.

There may be valid counter-arguments against Scanlon's appointment, but they're not the ones you've made.

How have you established RH's bias by the way?

Well he was hired because he was an internal candidate. That's what the FAI limited it to. That's hardly best practice in itself, is it, considering where the FAI are at right now.

I was aware he came from third level / schools. I know his name from recent years but I don't follow that level of football closely. He has a Sports Management degree, great. Does all that qualify a person to be LOI Director now? Is that the level we see the role as being at?

It's worrying that the FAI has just thrown it to someone from that background. Realistically, he's not going to be at a level or have the contacts to grow the league.

Who has actually been hired by the FAI in recent years to help develop the league? John McGuinness was about, doing very little, is he still around? Kieran Crowley does some stuff for the league on social media but he's always been dragged away to international teams. It seems like another appointment to tick a box but the person won't actually bring anything to the league.

Again, we've gone from Niall Quinn to Scanlon. Why not open it to outside applicants and get someone proper in to do it?

As for the bias, I doubt very much RH would be fighting Scanlon's corner as much if he wasn't a Rovers man.

[pineapple stu]

I mean a lot of this is speculation of course, but if you're trying to prove a case, you need it to be watertight. I'm not sure yours is.


Well he was hired because he was an internal candidate. That's what the FAI limited it to. That's hardly best practice in itself, is it, considering where the FAI are at right now.
On the contrary, a bankrupt organisation reallocating staff rather than hiring more could well make sense.


I was aware he came from third level / schools. I know his name from recent years but I don't follow that level of football closely. He has a Sports Management degree, great. Does all that qualify a person to be LOI Director now?
I don't know what exactly the role entails - is it just the admin or does it involve corporate deals, etc - but the thing is you're basically saying he's not suitable (if I read you correctly). Why? Throwing out open questions (which neither he nor the FAI can answer, not being here) isn't really a way to make a case.


It's worrying that the FAI has just thrown it to someone from that background. Realistically, he's not going to be at a level or have the contacts to grow the league.
Again though - why not? I think your criticism needs to be more constructive. What contacts would he need but not have, for example?


Who has actually been hired by the FAI in recent years to help develop the league? John McGuinness was about, doing very little, is he still around? Kieran Crowley does some stuff for the league on social media but he's always been dragged away to international teams.
Judging Scanlon based on other people is a bit harsh, no?

I mean, you could end up being right - but it still wouldn't be a reasonable thing to do to judge someone based on who else the FAI have hired.


As for the bias, I doubt very much RH would be fighting Scanlon's corner as much if he wasn't a Rovers man.
Again, possibly correct, but you've nothing to really back this up with.

[Bucket]

I think it might be a missed opportunity. What I mean is, his title could have been something like "Senior/Intermediate Football Director" with his remit to include expanding the Provincial League system to cover the entire country and establish some sort of promotion/relegation to the LOI First Division.

[Lim till i die]

I log in expecting to see thousands of words of the floweriest prose dedicated to Franco as he shuffles off into a broom cupboard somewhere til retirement.

Instead reams of drivel from the usual drivellers

Forum poison is what it is Bill.

[Lim till i die]

I think it might be a missed opportunity. What I mean is, his title could have been something like "Senior/Intermediate Football Director" with his remit to include expanding the Provincial League system to cover the entire country and establish some sort of promotion/relegation to the LOI First Division.

Or they could have called him "Magical Money Man Director" and he could have given every club 100 bajillionty Euro

Just as realistic.

[Bucket]

Even better!

[The Lilywhites]

On the contrary, a bankrupt organisation reallocating staff rather than hiring more could well make sense.

Whatever the finances, it's wrong to limit an important appointment such as this to internal applicant(s).

Why was this position separated from Fran Gavin's role. Gavin remains as Competitions Director. Was it a case of taking the heat off Gavin and throwing "LOI Director" to Scanlon?


I don't know what exactly the role entails - is it just the admin or does it involve corporate deals, etc - but the thing is you're basically saying he's not suitable (if I read you correctly). Why? Throwing out open questions (which neither he nor the FAI can answer, not being here) isn't really a way to make a case.

I would think it should include corporate deals and establishing/growing the brand of the league. There are other people to look after the admin, Hayes and Gavin. If it was only the admin, what's the point of the title.


Again though - why not? I think your criticism needs to be more constructive. What contacts would he need but not have, for example?

Business contacts, the type Quinn would have. I wonder why Quinn appeared to run away from the role, given that he was widely mentioned for it.


Judging Scanlon based on other people is a bit harsh, no?

I mean, you could end up being right - but it still wouldn't be a reasonable thing to do to judge someone based on who else the FAI have hired.

Was just making the general point that other people have been hired to help the LOI, which seemed great at the time, but it didn't make any difference. I wasn't criticising Crowley, just pointing out he's not solely LOI. As for John McGuinness, where is he now?

[pineapple stu]

Whatever the finances, it's wrong to limit an important appointment such as this to internal applicant(s).
The finances are very important.

The FAI may have a plan to shed 100 staff, for example. (I'm making numbers up; it's the idea that's important). You don't do that by hiring new people. They may well have a hire freeze at the moment. It's not ideal, but it could well be the best thing for the organisation's finances at the moment.


Why was this position separated from Fran Gavin's role. Gavin remains as Competitions Director. Was it a case of taking the heat off Gavin and throwing "LOI Director" to Scanlon?

I would think it should include corporate deals and establishing/growing the brand of the league. There are other people to look after the admin, Hayes and Gavin. If it was only the admin, what's the point of the title.

Business contacts, the type Quinn would have. I wonder why Quinn appeared to run away from the role, given that he was widely mentioned for it.

So I don't know any of the answers to the above really.

But if you don't either, then I don't see how you can draw conclusions on Scanlon's suitability for the role. And that's RH's point.


As for John McGuinness, where is he now?
I don't see why I care to be honest?

Again, you can't judge Scanlon based on "Where's John McGuinness"? That doesn't make any sense.

[The Lilywhites]

The finances are very important.

The FAI may have a plan to shed 100 staff, for example. (I'm making numbers up; it's the idea that's important). You don't do that by hiring new people. They may well have a hire freeze at the moment. It's not ideal, but it could well be the best thing for the organisation's finances at the moment.

By your theory, Scanlon has only got the job because the FAI are broke. That's probably the case, to be fair. So what should we expect from him in the role then?

He's in a position he wouldn't be near if the FAI could have gone out and hired someone suitably qualified, so should he be judged at all on his performance or will it be a case of 'it's the best we can do' in the situation given the money that's available?

Is being better than Fran Gavin a bar for the job?


So I don't know any of the answers to the above really.

But if you don't either, then I don't see how you can draw conclusions on Scanlon's suitability for the role. And that's RH's point.

Look, if it's admin then he's qualified, any eejit could do that, but his title should not be LOI Director ffs.


I don't see why I care to be honest?

Again, you can't judge Scanlon based on "Where's John McGuinness"? That doesn't make any sense.

Yeah, and sure when the next fella comes along after Scanlon disappears, nobody will ask either where's Scanlon. Isn't that the problem? People come and go and nothing changes in the FAI regarding the league.

[pineapple stu]

By your theory, Scanlon has only got the job because the FAI are broke. That's probably the case, to be fair. So what should we expect from him in the role then?
Who knows? Just because he's an internal promotion doesn't mean he's not up to the job.


He's in a position he wouldn't be near if the FAI could have gone out and hired someone suitably qualified
You're back to saying things that you simply don't know if they're true or not now.

Why would he not be near the job if external candidates were invited? You still haven't really answered that one.

And that's the crux of the whole thing - you've very strong opinions on something that you don't seem to know anything about. I don't know much about it either, but I'm not going on about how unsuitable he is (and then asking what he's supposed to be doing anyway)


Yeah, and sure when the next fella comes along after Scanlon disappears, nobody will ask either where's Scanlon. Isn't that the problem? People come and go and nothing changes in the FAI regarding the league.
Why are you still trying to judge a person's suitability for the job based on completely different people? Do you not see that that makes no sense?

[The Lilywhites]

Did you go to UCD or do you just support the team? Things don't seem to get through to you. You were like this on a previous thread too.

Clearly my idea of what the LOI Director should be and what you think he should be are two completely different things!

[pineapple stu]

Things don't seem to get through to you.
What doesn't get through to me?

You haven't made a single valid point as far as I can see.

You've said you don't think a person is up to their new job based on, among other things, how other people did at other jobs, and that he's an internal candidate and therefore can't be up to the job. Yet you don't know what the job is or what their experience is.

People who disagree with you are either obviously biased or else you resort to random insults.

You're not really making a strong case for your view here. Do you want to start again?

[RathfarnhamHoop]

What you need to know to decide if someones qualified for a job:

The jobs responsibilities
Their experience
Their responsibilities in previous employment
Their education
Their personality

What Lilywhites doesn't know about Scanlon:
His new jobs responsibilities
His experience
His previous jobs responsibilities
What his degree taught him
Anything about him really

What lilywhite does know:
He's a rovers fan
New job title
Old job title


I mean do I really need to say the logical conclusion to all that?

[The Lilywhites]

So you're both happy with Scanlon's appointment, based on him having a degree (most of which has nothing to do with this role) and his work in third level football.

Fair enough. Real LOI mentality there. Sure it'll be grand.

By the way Stu, you'd know about throwing insults and resorting to bad language.

[pineapple stu]

Where did I say I was happy with his appointment?

Are you making stuff up again? It really doesn't help your argument.

I've explicitly said I don't know enough to form an opinion on him. You seem to know even less but have a very strong opinion for some reason.

And your last part then descends into random insults again.

[The Lilywhites]

Where did I say I was happy with his appointment?

Are you making stuff up again? It really doesn't help your argument.

I've explicitly said I don't know enough to form an opinion on him.

And your last part then descends into random insults again.

You appear quite happy with his appointment, and the process in appointing him, based on what you said.

You're the one calling someone a f**kwit on the forum.

[pineapple stu]

You appear quite happy with his appointment, and the process in appointing him, based on what you said.
You're not reading what I'm posting so.

I don't know anything about the guy or how he was appointed so can't form an opinion. I'm not sure how much clearer I can make that.

All I'm doing is arguing against your view. It doesn't hold up to scrutiny, and you've nothing solid to back it up it seems.



You're the one calling someone a f**kwit on the forum.
In 30k posts over 20 years here, I probably did call someone a ****wit once. Probably because they were a ****wit. Not sure how it helps your argument that Scanlon isn't up to the job though?

[Eminence Grise]

Jeez, the way you hold grudges TL, I'm beginning to wonder if you were interviewed for the job. It takes some doing to make Rathfarnham Hoop come aross as the reasonable one, but he's ****ing António Guterres in comparison to you.

[nigel-harps1954]

I'd just like to know what qualifications are expected from the ideal candidate?

[The Lilywhites]

Jeez, the way you hold grudges TL, I'm beginning to wonder if you were interviewed for the job. It takes some doing to make Rathfarnham Hoop come aross as the reasonable one, but he's ****ing António Guterres in comparison to you.

That's impossible sure. Scanlon was the only one that applied for it.

[Eminence Grise]

I'd just like to know what qualifications are expected from the ideal candidate?

Psychiatry.:rolleyes:

If he did the UCD MSc in Sports Management (or anything similar), he'd have covered something along the lines of


Sport Governance & Law
Sport Leadership & People Management
Strategy & Operations Management in Sport
Sports Marketing
The Management of High Performance Sport
Sport Event Management & Communications
Research Dissertation

( (https://sisweb.ucd.ie/usis/!W_HU_MENU.P_PUBLISH?p_tag=PROG&MAJR=X762)https://sisweb.ucd.ie/usis/!W_HU_MENU.P_PUBLISH?p_tag=PROG&MAJR=X762)

which would be a useful starting point.
(https://sisweb.ucd.ie/usis/!W_HU_MENU.P_PUBLISH?p_tag=PROG&MAJR=X762)

[Charlie Darwin]

Undoubtedly people will think it no matter how impartial he is, even if he does the old home town ref thing where he is harder on his club to prove impartiality. Hopefully there wont be any polar opposite issues that are for or against SRFC. It should on balance be a good thing in having a fan of the league on board and it not seen by him as some poison chalice or FAI style punishment role.
I don't know what we want, somebody who cares about the league, which pretty much means they're guaranteed to support a team, or someone from outside who doesn't care. All the refs in the league support a LOI team and we don't (usually) question their impartiality. There are players who support one team and play for their bitterest rivals but they still do their job. Just accept that guys will support teams and hope they've been appointed based on their competence. JD supported Waterford ffs, fat lot of good it did them.

[Charlie Darwin]

Same job? You can't compare schools / third level to what he's taking on here. What exactly did he do for those? Was it not just organising competitions/logistics?

Sports Management degree hardly qualifies him for the role, come on now.
How many people in Ireland have experience of running a professional sports league? I'm not batting for the guy, I don't know him, but I do think there's necessarily a bit of a leap of faith going on with any applicant here unless we can afford to parachute in foreigners with a track record.

[Charlie Darwin]

Why was this position separated from Fran Gavin's role. Gavin remains as Competitions Director. Was it a case of taking the heat off Gavin and throwing "LOI Director" to Scanlon?
I suspect Gavin is an employee so can't be laid off as easily as a contract worker would be. Scanlon is also an employee so can be promoted to take over Gavin's remit but has to be given a different description because Gavin is still there. The FAI is a bizarre organisation.

[pineapple stu]

That's impossible sure. Scanlon was the only one that applied for it.
WeAreRovers has linked to the Indo (albeit behind paywall) to show there were three applicants.

You've said a number of times now that there was only one applicant, but haven't said where you're getting that info from.

[The Lilywhites]

WeAreRovers has linked to the Indo (albeit behind paywall) to show there were three applicants.

You've said a number of times now that there was only one applicant, but haven't said where you're getting that info from.

Yeah, I wonder who's feeding Dan McDonnell...

You clearly don't read anything, you just repeat your nonsense post after post. You're either on the wind up or completely thick. I said above where it was from.

[pineapple stu]

Dan McDonnell, the Dundalk fan, who now has a Rovers bias, yeah?

Tell us - who is feeding him? Or are you just making stuff up again?

It's not a remotely acceptable argument to throw out an accusation, dismiss actual evidence to the contrary as nonsense, and then accuse people as thick because they don't agree with you when you (a) provide no evidence at all to back your case up and (b) have lots of people actively showing your argument to be wrong.

[The Lilywhites]

Dan McDonnell, the Dundalk fan, who now has a Rovers bias, yeah?

Tell us - who is feeding him? Or are you just making stuff up again?

It's not a remotely acceptable argument to throw out an accusation, dismiss actual evidence to the contrary as nonsense, and then accuse people as thick because they don't agree with you when you (a) provide no evidence at all to back your case up and (b) have lots of people actively showing your argument to be wrong.

It's a long time since Dan McDonnell showed anything of being a Dundalk fan, but where did I mention Rovers bias? You're making up stuff.

You're clearly too thick to realise how these things work.

You and RH are the ones getting hung up on the fact that Scanlon is a Rovers man.


It's far too important a role to just give to a sole applicant. I don't know Mark Scanlon or his qualities and he may end up being the best for the job but surely he should at least have competition to ensure this.

https://twitter.com/jamesdundalk/status/1283311223560437760?s=21

[RathfarnhamHoop]

"if it's true that only one person has put their name forward for the LOI Director's position"


I'll translate for you and I'll keep it nice and simple for you.
He doesn't know how many people applied. He's basing it off a rumour that there was only one applicant.

Those tweets were also sent before anything was announced so was all based off rumours and Dan McDonnells article came after and set out the facts

https://twitter.com/McDonnellDan/status/1283451520458137600?s=20

[The Lilywhites]

"if it's true that only one person has put their name forward for the LOI Director's position"


I'll translate for you and I'll keep it nice and simple for you.
He doesn't know how many people applied. He's basing it off a rumour that there was only one applicant.

Those tweets were also sent before anything was announced so was all based off rumours and Dan McDonnells article came after and set out the facts

https://twitter.com/McDonnellDan/status/1283451520458137600?s=20

Yeah..


I gather there was more than one for what it’s worth ...

That's clearly "setting out the facts" alright!

[pineapple stu]

You're clearly too thick to realise how these things work.
Have you actually anything to add to your case other than personal attacks, TL?

How do they work? Do you want to tell us?

Because everything you've said so far is misguided -

Saying he was the only applicant for the job, based on one rumour on twitter. Then suggesting a leading national sports journalist is being fed wrong information when he says something different - but no reason given on your part to disagree. As RH notes, that tweet clearly starts "If it's true..." - which means JamesDundalk (who could be you, for all we know) doesn't know either
Saying you can't compare his existing role with the new one, and then asking what his existing role is anyway
Saying a Master's in Sports Management doesn't qualify him for the role, but not saying why, and then ignoring EG's post of course description, which suggests it is a good fit
Saying you never mentioned Rovers bias, when in fact you did so here (https://foot.ie/threads/256865-Fran-Gavin?p=2041872&viewfull=1#post2041872).
Saying he doesn't have the requisite business contacts (but you've given no evidence of that one way or the other)
Saying he's not up to the job because of what other people did in other roles (probably your most bizarre argument of the lot)
Saying external candidates should have been sought (but ignoring the very possible reality that the FAI could have a hiring freeze on, or indeed the fact that there were no qualified external applicants. Because who would give up a job to go work with the FAI around about now?)


Then when you can't argue that way, you turn to ad hominem arguments -
Saying I'm thick when I don't agree with you (hardly a relevant argument, I'm sure you'll agree)
Saying I'm happy with the appointment (when I never said I was)
Saying I'm throwing around insults (when I haven't been, but you have been)
Saying I don't read anything (but then you ask why I'm happy with the appointment, when I never said I was)

So you haven't brought a single logical argument to the debate - but I'm the thick one?

You haven't a ****ing clue what you're talking about, but you're still mickey swinging away in the belief that your ill-informed views are the absolute truth and everyone else must somehow be wrong.

I don't know the ins and outs of the appointment either - but then I'm not acting like I know it all.

[The Lilywhites]

I don't know the ins and outs of the appointment either - but then I'm not acting like I know it all.

You are though.

Got bored after two lines of your post so skipped to the end.

I'll leave you and RH to entertain yourselves.

[pineapple stu]

Got bored after two lines of your post so skipped to the end.
Yeah, that pretty much sums up your approach on all this.

Ignore when people (ie pretty much everyone on here) challenge you and try engage you in a debate about your points, and instead waddle off with your own bizarre viewpoint still to hand.

[The Lilywhites]

Yeah, that pretty much sums up your approach on all this.

Ignore when people (ie pretty much everyone on here) challenge you and try engage you in a debate about your points, and instead waddle off with your own bizarre viewpoint still to hand.

You and RH are "everyone" now, yeah. Ok.

[pineapple stu]

Everyone on the thread - including WeAreRovers, Lim till i die, Eminence Grise, nigel-harps1954 and Charlie Darwin.

All arguing against you.

Nobody's on your side here.

[The Lilywhites]

Everyone on the thread - including WeAreRovers, Lim till i die, Eminence Grise, nigel-harps1954 and Charlie Darwin.

All arguing against you.

Nobody's on your side here.

Of course that would be your interpretation of it. Lol.

For a start, Lim til I Die called you a driveller, ffs.

[pineapple stu]

For a start, Lim til I Die called you a driveller, ffs.
Did he?

Where do you see that?

[The Lilywhites]

Did he?

Where do you see that?

2 posts under your drivel on page 3.

He hasn't even mentioned Scanlon on this thread.

[pineapple stu]

Or is it 3 posts under your drivel?

Again, hard evidence not your strong suit, TL.

[The Lilywhites]

Or is it 3 posts under your drivel?

Again, hard evidence not your strong suit, TL.

You're the one who mentioned LTID as pro Scanlon when he hasn't even mentioned him. Making up stuff, as usual.

You decided to list nearly everyone who's posted on the thread so far but you basically have RH on your side. That says it all.

[pineapple stu]

You decided to list nearly everyone who's posted on the thread so far but you basically have RH on your side. That says it all.
What about WAR, who provides a reputable source contradicting your claim that only one person applied for the role?

What about Eminence Grise, who outlines the contents of a course in Sports Management to show how it might be relevant to the job at hand, and who highlights your acute unreasonableness in this discussion?

What about nigel and Charlie, who've indirectly and directly queried your view of the role?

But you've ignored all those to flag one poster who doesn't even mention me!

That says it all...

[nigel-harps1954]

Of course that would be your interpretation of it. Lol.

For a start, Lim til I Die called you a driveller, ffs.

For what it's worth, you're chatting out of your hole.

Refusing to engage in a rational debate, admitting to not reading a response and continuing to tell someone they're wrong, despite not reading their response, is the absolute height of ignorance.

[The Lilywhites]

What about WAR, who provides a reputable source contradicting your claim that only one person applied for the role?

He provided a link to an article that is behind a paywall. I don't subscribe to the Indo. I asked for the relevant bit to be posted here to see what it says...


What about Eminence Grise, who outlines the contents of a course in Sports Management to show how it might be relevant to the job at hand, and who highlights your acute unreasonableness in this discussion?

I was aware of what was on the Sports Management course. EG was responding directly to Nigel Harps on that, not me.


What about nigel and Charlie, who've indirectly and directly queried your view of the role?

Nigel only asked about qualifications.

Charlie was very reasonable in his posts, unlike yourself and RH who continue to just ramble on.

[The Lilywhites]

For what it's worth, you're chatting out of your hole.

Refusing to engage in a rational debate, admitting to not reading a response and continuing to tell someone they're wrong, despite not reading their response, is the absolute height of ignorance.

I didn't read that reply because it was a book and he's going round in rings with his argument. Couldn't be bothered.

[pineapple stu]

For what it's worth, you're chatting out of your hole.

Refusing to engage in a rational debate, admitting to not reading a response and continuing to tell someone they're wrong, despite not reading their response, is the absolute height of ignorance.
Cheers Nigel.

I'll leave it at that so. If that doesn't get through, nothing will. (And I think "nothing will" is the actual answer)

Best of luck to Scanlon in his new role. I've no idea who he is or how he'll do. Maybe he'll be rubbish. But it won't be because of how John McGuinness did anyway.

[The Lilywhites]

I've no idea who he is or how he'll do.

Exactly. You haven't a clue.

[pineapple stu]

I've never said otherwise.

But I do have a clue when it comes to arguing against your logic.

You haven't a clue about Scanlon either. But you're the one actively arguing against his appointment. Despite not having a clue about his job, experience, how many people applied, etc.

That's the difference.

[Nesta99]

I don't know what we want, somebody who cares about the league, which pretty much means they're guaranteed to support a team, or someone from outside who doesn't care. All the refs in the league support a LOI team and we don't (usually) question their impartiality. There are players who support one team and play for their bitterest rivals but they still do their job. Just accept that guys will support teams and hope they've been appointed based on their competence. JD supported Waterford ffs, fat lot of good it did them.

I would agree, and have said as much albeit in longwinded or clumsey manner. Anticipating potential tunnel vision reaction, as has been born out subsequently in this thread, wasnt anti-SRFC or a 'manipulation of posters'. It was simply expecting some people to baulk at the appointment. Which was more a recognition of how some could react against a SRFC connection. I wasnt sure from whom, especially with marionbohs absence these days. I was less surprised by RH stamping his feet at the very suggestion that it was possible!

[Lim till i die]

For the record I just want to state that I consider all arguments between Rathfarnham Hoop and Dundalk fans (and let's face it is their any other content on foot these days) to be painful, worst kind of internet argument, pointless, drivel.

Carry on everyone!