Australia to leave OFC for Asian federation

[Gerrit]

The Asian Football Confederation has approved allowing Australia as a member of the AFC and participant in Asia Cup tournaments and Asian WC qualifiers. Australia thereby hopes to escape the rather weak opposition in Oceania by countries such as New Zealand, Tonga, Cook Islands, Western Samoa, Vanuatu and Fiji.

However, we are far from there. Both FIFA and OFC (Oceanian Football Confederence) still have to approve the move, and very likely New Zealand is going to put their veto against the move.




I think it's a disgrace. Since when is Australia in Asia ?!! What do they want exactly... To make the Oceanian zone a joke where Vanuatu first qualifies for a WC playoff versus Asia's number 5, then to get hammered 20-0 ??
This is simply ridiculising Oceanian football.

Also, this is all the fault of Sepp Blatter. He promised Oceania a direct qualification spot for the World Cup to gain votes from their members necessary for his re-election as FIFA president. Nice promises such as "football is a mondial sport and Oceania should have a direct qualifier" proved to be empty words which were only intended to gain votes. It's normal that Australia ran out of patience after those empty words...

The ONLY right solution for this is in my opinion to give Oceania what it deserves: a direct spot on the World Cup. It is a continent, and at a World Cup they deserve to have a representant. I know Tonga or Papua New Guinea would only ridiculise themselves when playing Brazil or Italy on a World Cup, but Australia has a decent side worth of participating, and even New Zealand could be a positive surprise. But if the FIFA keeps on treating this continent like midgets, sooner or later New Zealand and Australia will both run off and leave only Fiji, Vanuatu, Tahiti, Cook Islands, Papua NG, Tonga and other tiny isles in the Oceanian competition. Imagine then the winner of that zone losing 20-0 in a World Cup qualifyer playoff versus Korea or the Arab Emirates...

I can only hope New Zealand puts its veto, or it will kill Oceanian football...

[Gerrit]

and we can take in the USA... Bushism: "We have responsabilities towards NATO, we are part of NATO. We have responsabilities towards Europe, we are part of Europe..." :)



I was kinda attracted to a Kiwi girl, nothing happened though... From what I hear from her, it's all rugby down there, so probably not many people care what the All-Whites do in soccer...

Khazakhstan joining UEFA makes more or less sense in terms of geography, they have more percentual territory in Europe than Turkey (only 3% of the country in Europe), and if you don't count Cyprus and Israel in as being part of Europe they even have 0% territory in Europe. (taking in Israel could be justified though as they were abandonned by both the Asian and African federations because of political reasons)

Australia in Asia is a joke IMO. It is clearly not Asia, and it will do the domestic football scene in Oceania only harm. If they really don't want to give Oceania a spot on the WC, then let OFC and AFC merge and create an Asian/Oceanian zone, if only to spare countries like Tonga the humiliation of getting hammered in a WC qualifyer playoff versus an Asian country...

But as I said: the only right decision here is to give Oceania a direct spot for the World Cup, which could be a boost for the whole continent, promote football in countries where rugby is the main sport (like Fiji or even Tonga).

[hamish]

and we can take in the USA... Bushism: "We have responsabilities towards NATO, we are part of NATO. We have responsabilities towards Europe, we are part of Europe..." :)



I was kinda attracted to a Kiwi girl, nothing happened though... From what I hear from her, it's all rugby down there, so probably not many people care what the All-Whites do in soccer...

Khazakhstan joining UEFA makes more or less sense in terms of geography, they have more percentual territory in Europe than Turkey (only 3% of the country in Europe), and if you don't count Cyprus and Israel in as being part of Europe they even have 0% territory in Europe. (taking in Israel could be justified though as they were abandonned by both the Asian and African federations because of political reasons)

Australia in Asia is a joke IMO. It is clearly not Asia, and it will do the domestic football scene in Oceania only harm. If they really don't want to give Oceania a spot on the WC, then let OFC and AFC merge and create an Asian/Oceanian zone, if only to spare countries like Tonga the humiliation of getting hammered in a WC qualifyer playoff versus an Asian country...

But as I said: the only right decision here is to give Oceania a direct spot for the World Cup, which could be a boost for the whole continent, promote football in countries where rugby is the main sport (like Fiji or even Tonga).

Just a comment on football in NZ, recent Guardian or Observer report stated that many "European" kids are taking to football since Maori kids are bigger physically and better prospects for eggball. In fact, I believe that football is the favourite sport of under 14s in general in NZ.
Also, an u-17 World Cup in NZ a few years ago, attracted an average attendance of 8,000 per game, probably bigger than any other country could manage even in football countries. The NZ games attracted even bigger than the average.
The Final, I think Australia and Brazil were imvolved, attracted a crowd in the region of 25,000.
It makes sense, New Zealanders will soon cop on that achievements by the country in international football will attract bigger TV audiences in the country simply because football is THE world game and rugby, despite all the hype, is small beer in international terms.

[anto eile]

average crowd in new zealand league afaik is about 300.
new zealand should qualify for world cup if australia leave.so its beneficial for new zealand.
dont blame australia for getting sick of oceania.
kazakhstan has no territory in europe gerrit. its only a short distance from mongolia.and it borders china!
afaik australia can leave oceania simply by resigning.then its an AFC matter whether they join the AFC. doubt new zealand get a right to block the move.
australia leaving oceania is the best thing for aussie football,so cant blame them for leaving

[Poor Student]

Khazakhstan joining UEFA makes more or less sense in terms of geography, they have more percentual territory in Europe than Turkey (only 3% of the country in Europe),

Kazakhstan's Western most border is in line with Eastern most Turkey and Iraq! I have never been able to find for the life of me why they were admitted to UEFA. I think culturally it is kind of European. There are over half a million German speakers there and a few million Slavs though a bit over half the country are Asians and a little under a half are muslim. I know they are also quite a sporting country, you see them competing in quite a few events in the Olympics. However their footballing standards are poor and I don't think any club made the UEFA licence in the first year of it. Anyone know what they are doing in UEFA?

[Sheridan]

Anyone know what they are doing in UEFA?
Originally the plan was for UEFA to perform a swap with the AFC, switching Kazakhstan for Azerbaijan. The Azeris weren't keen to leave, however. I think the rationale involved may have something to do with bloc-voting (i.e., UEFA gains an extra vote.)

[Gerrit]

How come Kazakhstan has 500000 German speakers ?!


I have studies maps and read travel guides most of my spare time as a kid, but focussed mainly on the Far North and Far South, so could be wrong but: Kazakhstan would have a very slight piece of territory west of the Ural, thus in Europe. I think 12% or so I have once read, however I have not shown enough interest in the region back in my geography days to know if it is completely true.



Australian fans are quite enthousiast on the move: www.bigsoccer.com boards, Oceanian section...

I think it's still not right. Country football is not about getting higher and higher and making money. It's not economics, unlike club football. It's about love for the game and honour. Having a better team does not give the Australians the right to tell a Vanuatu citizen he should not play his favourite sport or participate in international football. No matter if the Aussies like it or not, islands like Vanuatu, Tonga and Western Samoa are countries, so they have the right to enter. I think it's quite insulting if Australia feels to good to play them, especially since if the whole Oceanian zone isn't merged with Asia the problems will just grow bigger for the remaining countries in the Oceanian federation. Australia leaving is a solution for one member that feels arrogant enough to let the others down, if they really want a solution for every Oceanian nation: either merge the Oceanian and Asian federations entirely, either give Oceania a direct World Cup ticket as Blatter promised.

And no Aussie will care, but my respect for Australia has at one day fallen from relatively high to almost zero. I have much more respect for Western Samoa entering a competition out of love for the game (despite losing 31-0) than for a country feeling too good for the others and running off.

[GavinZac]

oceania isnt a real continent is it though ;)

either polynesia forms a combined team & they, australia, PNG & NZ join asia, or it stays the way it is.

asia confederation is too big as it is. from jerusalem to japan? i reckon they should be split, an eastern section and a western section. in this case, the eastern section could include australasia.

[Poor Student]

That's more halves than yer average double :confused: ............. ;)

:D In case you are genuinely confused one was referring to the ethnicity of the country and the other the religion. If not, you cheeky git. ;)

[Dodge]

All you ever wanted to know about Kazakhstan http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/kz.html

2.4% of the population German...

[Poor Student]

I think the German settlers came in the 1800's invited by the Tsar, or maybe even Tsarina. With bizarre German citizen ship laws on repatriotation they by tracing their German lineage would find it easier to get citizenship than immigrant Turkish workers in Germany. As far as I know the Germans are struggling to get linguistic rights since Kazak independence and their numbers are declining.

[Volcán Masaya]

I think the German settlers came in the 1800's invited by the Tsar, or maybe even Tsarina. With bizarre German citizen ship laws on repatriotation they by tracing their German lineage would find it easier to get citizenship than immigrant Turkish workers in Germany. As far as I know the Germans are struggling to get linguistic rights since Kazak independence and their numbers are declining.

The Germans were first invited to Russia back in the 1700's by Catherine the Great, who herself was a German princess who had married the Czar Peter. She believed that the German farmers would have a positive influence on Russian farming practices which were quite backward at the time.
There are still a few million of their descendants scattered throughout the old Russian Empire... Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, Kazakstan etc.

Quite a few of these Ruso-Germans emigrated to the US, but esp Canada in the late 1800s and early 1900s. If you ever visit the Canadian plains states you'll encounter quite of lot them.
But probably the most bizarre place I've ever run into them is in Chihuahua in northern Mexico. Outside the city of Cuauhtemoc there is a large settlement of German speaking Mennonites, they wear the traditional garb still speak an old archaic dialect of German. Their ancestors emigrated from Germany to the Ukraine in the 1700s, in the late 1800s they moved on to Canada. Then when WW1 broke out they refused to serve in the Canadian military, being pacifists, and many were imprisioned..... anyways they said fvck this for a barrel of monkeys and headed south to Mexico with the promise of free land from the Mexican government.
They'll still there today. I'm telling you it's really strange to be driving across northern Mexico and come across a load of tall blond haired fellas in black clothes speaking German.
If you're ever down that way, check out their cheese...... mighty stuff, and you can buy a big old wheel of it for just s few pesos.


.

[Poor Student]

Thanks for adding accuracy to my info. :p That's actually a very interesting and bizarre story.

[Dodge]

At risk of going 'off-topic'..... worldwide,surely the most bizarre settlers/ :rolleyes: 'planters' are the native Welsh speakers in Patagonia,Argentina. :eek:
There's a surprisely large Irish population in Argentina. Even Irish speakers...

[Volcán Masaya]

There's a surprisely large Irish population in Argentina. Even Irish speakers...


http://www.hurling-club.com.ar/

Check out this pic......
http://www.hurling-club.com.ar/fahyboys1931.html



.

[Closed Account 2]

Some of the Russian-Germans have moved back from the former USSR to Germany. A lot of them live in Falkenberg and Marzahn, NE Berlin - as a group they were treated very badly after WWII (even though they had no involvement in it) and moved from the Northern Volga (where they'd lived for 150-200 years to work-camps deep inside the Soviet Union (including places like Kazakstan, Siberia).

[Snoop Drog]

An good article on the Oz story from respected Australia TV pundit Les Murray

http://www3.sbs.com.au/opinions/index.php3?id=56055

[shedite]

I reckon Antartica should get a spot too. That's a continent!!!

Australia is pretty messed up to be honest in terms of qualifying. They are unlucky to be so isolated. They are a country that has invested a huge amount of money into sports and they have succeeded in most. They are in the top 10 of pretty much any sport you can name bar soccer. I reckon they could become a major power if they qualified for a few world cups.

How do they decide who plays who in WC playoffs though? I remember australia played some asian team one year, then uruguay 4 years previous, Ireland played Iran last time, idoes it change every time or what?

[hamish]

I reckon Antartica should get a spot too. That's a continent!!!

Australia is pretty messed up to be honest in terms of qualifying. They are unlucky to be so isolated. They are a country that has invested a huge amount of money into sports and they have succeeded in most. They are in the top 10 of pretty much any sport you can name bar soccer. I reckon they could become a major power if they qualified for a few world cups.

How do they decide who plays who in WC playoffs though? I remember australia played some asian team one year, then uruguay 4 years previous, Ireland played Iran last time, idoes it change every time or what?

Wasn't that Iran when Terry Venables was Aussie manager. They really blew that one after a good away result they did a Celtic and gave away the home leg to sucker punch goal. That could have been some breakthrough if Australia had played in 1998 in France.

[Snoop Drog]

Yeah, Iran was 8 years ago. Oz 2 up going into the last few minutes. A pitch invader pulled down one of the nets,it took 10 mins to put it back up & Australia lost the impetus, conceded two & lost on away goals.

Lost to Uruguay away last time around (Kevin Muscat scored from the spot at home giving Australia the lead going into the away leg).

Shedite has hit the nail on the head- A nation that invests heavily in sport, win at just about everything they do apart from football. The qualifying (half a spot to Oceania) is inherently unfair on Oz because the walk through the qualifiers without having to break a sweat & then must face the battle-hardened fifth best South American team.

Oz switching to Asia is a good compromise for everyone. Sepp Blatter did a backflip after offering Oceania a full place to get himself re-elected.

Apart from more meaningful Internationals, switching to the Asian federation will also offer the newly formed A-League (Oz national league) a place in the lucrative Asian Chamions league.

It all isn't rosy for Australia however. They look likely to make the South American playoff again this November but I believe they will struggle once again. I have seen the Australian national team play in two friendlies in recent times- Vs Iraq (the football powerhouse :D ) & Oz struggled to win 2-1. And Vs Turkey (this time last year when the Turks were on an end of season tour) & Oz lost 3-1. They have only played 8 friendlies against decent oppostion (and I use the term 'decent' in its broadest term...) over the last two years (England, Ireland, Jamaica, Norway, Turkey X 2, South Africa X 2. W3 D2 L3. 10 other friendlies & Conferderation Cup qualifiers were against lesser footballing countries (yes, lesser than even Norway & Jamaica- generally against Oceania opposition). That is 26 months of games. Hardly ideal preparation for WC qualifying Vs the South Americans.

As an Australian football (soccer) fan I say roll on Asia. This is another make or break moment for the Australian Football family. Hopefully not another false dawn...

[hamish]

Fantastic round up there Snoop Dog. Saves me checking for all that info. :D
I'd love to see the Aussies in the World Cup.
I wonder would there be a possibility for FIFA to organise a "small nations" group (for want of a better term) with , say, the Vanuatus, Luxembourgs, Andorras, Vietnams etc etc involved. Maybe give it a title, with a Cup etc.

The winner could the qualify to a group in the area its based. Eg If say Andorra qualified, the put them in a European group.

Logistics would obviously be a problem.


Maybe a series of small nations groups could be organised.

As you can see, I'm mulling on this as I type.

Just a thought.

[Gerrit]

Hell no !! Luxembourg and Vanuatu have all the rights to compete with the big boys. This is country vs country football, every country has the right to participate. If it has to be about money, then the players should just ditch their national teams and go for 100% club football. The idea alone of putting the smaller nations in a pre-qualification group is breaking with all football ethnics... If Spain feels too good to play Andorra, they're a very very tiny football nation really...

As I stated before on bigsoccer.com: no Aussie will care, but anyway. I have supported Australia always in their struggle to reach the World Cup. To this sympathy I put an end. Roll on New Zealand (or even Vanuatu !)

[Gerrit]

I reckon Antartica should get a spot too.


who are you going to put in the Antarctica team ? :D

[Thunderblaster]

who are you going to put in the Antarctica team ? :D

11 Penguins!! :D :D :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Snoop Drog]

[QUOTE=sirhamish].
I wonder would there be a possibility for FIFA to organise a "small nations" group (for want of a better term) with , say, the Vanuatus, Luxembourgs, Andorras, Vietnams etc etc involved. Maybe give it a title, with a Cup etc.

The winner could the qualify to a group in the area its based. Eg If say Andorra qualified, the put them in a European group.
QUOTE]

Sirhamish, I think a small nations cup is a great idea & would go along way to developing the game in these regions.

Giving them a WC place though would be very controversial. Imagine if Andorra qualified through this comp & took a qualifying spot that otherwise would have gone to Ireland...

But anything to develop the game has to applauded. Alot of these regions already have comps (I'm thinking Tiger Cup in Asia, WC & Confederations Cup qualifiers in Oceania). The standard of football though in Vanuatu & Solomon Islands and the other Oceanic Island States is very poor $ football infrastructure at times non-existent (Sydney FC play in Tahiti next month to qualify for the World Championship. Apparently the Tahitian stadium, Stade Pater, does not have any phone lines for journos to carry match reports)

I guess I've gone off the subject a bit but certainly Vanuatu would give 11 Antartic penguins a good run for their money :D

[dancinpants]

Australia 4 4 0 0 66 0 +66 12

Thats Australias record from the 2002 qualifying. Thats fookin' rediculous - averaging over 16 goals per game!!!!, even Fiji scored 27 in their 4 games (averaging nearly 7/game and STILL finished 2nd). If Australia are going to improve they HAVE to make the move to the Asian Qualifiers.

[dancinpants]

I guess I've gone off the subject a bit but certainly Vanuatu would give 11 Antartic penguins a good run for their money :D

Snoop Drog we're trying to have a serious discussion here - there's no need to be goin' insulting penguins man!!! :D

[Snoop Drog]

Sorry dancinpants- Let it be put on the record that I am not racist towards penguins. Or nuns in general.

[Gerrit]

Country football is about bringing the whole world together, not about improving and getting higher and richer, that's why we have club football IMO. If Australia resigns it is an insult to the likes of Tonga etc, it's like "we feel too good for you because you cannot reach our level". I don't think we can accept this, not me anyway. I have much more respect for those Samoans out there who were beaten 31-0 but still go for it out of love for the game, THAT is the true football spirit, not the ones that just want to get higher and richer.

I never had a favourite in Asian football (yeah Mongolia, but they will not be true competition I'm afraid) but I rather see the Asian team -whatever it will be- win the playoff that the Aussies now. Can't help feeling disgusted by their act and it will take a while before they're in my good books again. Japanese fans are much nicer to look at anyway :cool:

[hamish]

Country football is about bringing the whole world together, not about improving and getting higher and richer, that's why we have club football IMO. If Australia resigns it is an insult to the likes of Tonga etc, it's like "we feel too good for you because you cannot reach our level". I don't think we can accept this, not me anyway. I have much more respect for those Samoans out there who were beaten 31-0 but still go for it out of love for the game, THAT is the true football spirit, not the ones that just want to get higher and richer.

I never had a favourite in Asian football (yeah Mongolia, but they will not be true competition I'm afraid) but I rather see the Asian team -whatever it will be- win the playoff that the Aussies now. Can't help feeling disgusted by their act and it will take a while before they're in my good books again. Japanese fans are much nicer to look at anyway :cool:


Gerrit, I'm not saying anything along the lines that Spain are too good for the likes of Andorra etc.
I was just thinking that a small nations group would enrich their love of football and focus on improving their standards. They would have a competition to win and a play-off against the big guns - NOT automatic qualification to the World Cup Finals.
It surely must be dispiriting for Fiji, Vietnam etc getting the siht beat out of them, match after match, year after year. I honestly can't see how it helps the development of football.
How about this alternative?
A World Cup Shield to run concurrently with the World Cup Finals and in the same country as the Finals and at the same time.
The small countries qualification group could be used as a method to have, say, eight qualifiers for this Shield.
OK it's not perfect but it might give the minnows a little exposure.
I'm just teasing this out with you guys - there must be some way that smaller nations can be helped. I'm aware that FIFA organise development programmes in these countries and coaching schemes etc. but that's not enough I feel.
Fcuk the penguins :D - I'm a Greenland supporter - they have football there too I believe.

[Green Tribe]

Fcuk the penguins :D .


Jesus, any animal's going to get it where you're concerned..... :eek: :eek:

:D

[hamish]

Jesus, any animal's going to get it where you're concerned..... :eek: :eek:

:D

Oh Jaysus I walked right in to that one, didn't I KT? :eek:

Trust you to spot it.

Evil KT :p

[Green Tribe]

Oh Jaysus I walked right in to that one, didn't I KT? :eek:

Trust you to spot it.

Evil KT :p

Hee hee hee! :D It'd be cracking though if Australia could get into the WC, their fans are mad craic! :D

[hamish]

Yeah, the Aussies are great steam.

Whew still coming down from the Final!!!

Took my mind off sheep for a full two hours!! :D

[Snoop Drog]

If Australia resigns it is an insult to the likes of Tonga etc, it's like "we feel too good for you because you cannot reach our level". I don't think we can accept this, not me anyway. I have much more respect for those Samoans out there who were beaten 31-0 but still go for it out of love for the game, THAT is the true football spirit, not the ones that just want to get higher and richer.


Gerrit, it's not an insult at all. In many ways it is good for the region- They no longer have one nation (Australia) dominating all comps. Countries like Fiji, Solomon Islands and New Zealand ( :D ) can now be Oceanic Champs, which will develop the game in these areas & allow them to play in prestigious tournaments like Confederations Cup & World Club Championship (unless they change the rules...) Not only was Australia unanimously voted into Asia by the member nations, the member nations of Oceania unanimously voted to allow them to leave (ok, this might have been a bit of political rubberstamping but I belive ethe island nations of Oceania see the benefits of Austalia being out).

It won't be easy sailing for Australia in Asia either- It is a tough region to qualify for WC out off.

STOP PRESS- Aussie Kewell wins a CL medal (not that his performance this season meritted it...). I think only the second Aussie ever to win one- I'm pretty sure Craig Johnson would have won one at Liverpool too. Don't believe any other Aussie has ever won one (but could be wrong :confused: )

[Gerrit]

Hamish, the problem here is that these countries don't care getting beaten 10-0 all the time. They play for the love of the game, and don't care how much the score is. And that is the true spirit of football, I respect the players of San Marino much more than the Zidanes out there who wouldn't even think of going on the pitch without getting paid for it. The players of San Marino, Andorra, etc have to pay money to travel for their games, they have to sacrifice their holidays at work for it, still they show the biggest enthousiasm and motivation every game again. THAT is the pure football spirit, not seeing sports as an economical thing.
By putting the tiny nations in a pre-qualifier I'm a bit afraid they're getting punished for their spirit and attitude towards the game, while in fact we should reward them and help them to make things better. I doubt that Australia leaving will make the Solomon Islands any better. Maybe I'm wrong, hopefully...



And I am a northpole obsessed since age 5, so I did lot of research on the Far North and yes also football there. Greenland is very fanatic. Towns hold an average of 5 clubs even if there's only 1000 people in the village, and despite the hard travelling conditions (often it's air only) towns run empty when their teams play away games because the whole town travels to support their teams. Games are often played at midnight even, as the sun doesn't go down in the summer.

The northernmost competitive team in the world is the Greenland league team from Qanaaq near Thule, a 2000 people settlement in the extreme Northwest of Greenland and the quarter Siorapaluk is the northernmost settlement in the world. It has no running water in winter and temparatures go down to -50 Celsius sometimes in winter. Still, in summer there's a football team here entering the league.

Needless to say given my passion for the arctic, that Qanaaq is my favourite club in Greenland. :ball:

And I am being very serious here, don't think I am making this all up. I did my research well as I hope for extended travels in the Arctic and maybe, though I know chances are little in their economies, to live in the arctic for a while. It's been a lifelong dream of mine ever since first watching the globe. Probably will never come true, but you never know and where's light there's hope (and light is there, even though only for 3 months a year !)




Now back on-topic ;)

[hamish]

[QUOTE=Gerrit]Hamish, the problem here is that these countries don't care getting beaten 10-0 all the time. They play for the love of the game, and don't care how much the score is. And that is the true spirit of football, I respect the players of San Marino much more than the Zidanes out there who wouldn't even think of going on the pitch without getting paid for it. The players of San Marino, Andorra, etc have to pay money to travel for their games, they have to sacrifice their holidays at work for it, still they show the biggest enthousiasm and motivation every game again. THAT is the pure football spirit, not seeing sports as an economical thing.
By putting the tiny nations in a pre-qualifier I'm a bit afraid they're getting punished for their spirit and attitude towards the game, while in fact we should reward them and help them to make things better. I doubt that Australia leaving will make the Solomon Islands any better. Maybe I'm wrong, hopefully...



And I am a northpole obsessed since age 5, so I did lot of research on the Far North and yes also football there. Greenland is very fanatic. Towns hold an average of 5 clubs even if there's only 1000 people in the village, and despite the hard travelling conditions (often it's air only) towns run empty when their teams play away games because the whole town travels to support their teams. Games are often played at midnight even, as the sun doesn't go down in the summer.

The northernmost competitive team in the world is the Greenland league team from Qanaaq near Thule, a 2000 people settlement in the extreme Northwest of Greenland and the quarter Siorapaluk is the northernmost settlement in the world. It has no running water in winter and temparatures go down to -50 Celsius sometimes in winter. Still, in summer there's a football team here entering the league.

Needless to say given my passion for the arctic, that Qanaaq is my favourite club in Greenland. :ball:

And I am being very serious here, don't think I am making this all up. I did my research well as I hope for extended travels in the Arctic and maybe, though I know chances are little in their economies, to live in the arctic for a while. It's been a lifelong dream of mine ever since first watching the globe. Probably will never come true, but you never know and where's light there's hope (and light is there, even though only for 3 months a year !)




Amazing information on Greenland football, Gerrit - have read bits and pieces on the game in Greenland but, boy, you filled up the gaps. Thanks a million. I love football stories like that.

I never mentioned economics regarding the smaller football nations. Of course I agree with you and their love of the game, true spirit etc. What I'm thinking about is a method to increase their profile eg a World Cup Shield as mentioned above and an opportunity to improve their football standards. I also don't agree that Zidane is money obsessed. Remember this guy came from an impoverished Algerian/French background and has always declared his love for the game, money or no money. I suppose it's easy to do that when one is earning thousands a week but I'd be inclined to believe Zidane as he seems a pretty straight up guy.

In conclusion, what I'm musing is how can football standards be improved in the weaker countries. Remember, it wasn't that long ago that Ireland was one of them - I only remember too bloody well from attending international games with 6000 turning up to watch us play Chechoslovakia in the 60s.
How, by the way, can you be sure they don't care being getting beaten 10-0?? That can't do their spirits much good.

[Gerrit]

Well okay, Zidane was a bad example. I am talking about the average football star that wouldn't even bother to run after a ball if he didn't get paid really well, while my respect goes to those Andorrese amateurs who have to afford their own football trips, take days off at work, get beaten every game but still play with the biggest enthousiasm because of their love for the game.

A tournament for the smaller nations may not be a bad idea yeah, but then there must be more to it than just tickets to play the big ones. If we do this, it must really actually boost their level. So maybe the FIFA or a sponsor could make it a Setanta Cup-wise thing and give a really huge amount of cash to the winning nation, which the national FA could use to build better facilities, invest in youth projects, etc. - then the tournament for the tiny ones would be really interesting and a direct improvement. If they play each other for 500 people and only 20% of them proceeds then to lose 8-0 to England, the situation is not improving at all.

[hamish]

Well okay, Zidane was a bad example. I am talking about the average football star that wouldn't even bother to run after a ball if he didn't get paid really well, while my respect goes to those Andorrese amateurs who have to afford their own football trips, take days off at work, get beaten every game but still play with the biggest enthousiasm because of their love for the game.

A tournament for the smaller nations may not be a bad idea yeah, but then there must be more to it than just tickets to play the big ones. If we do this, it must really actually boost their level. So maybe the FIFA or a sponsor could make it a Setanta Cup-wise thing and give a really huge amount of cash to the winning nation, which the national FA could use to build better facilities, invest in youth projects, etc. - then the tournament for the tiny ones would be really interesting and a direct improvement. If they play each other for 500 people and only 20% of them proceeds then to lose 8-0 to England, the situation is not improving at all.

Agree with you 100% on the above Gerrit and must say I'm thoroughly enjoying this conversation. Hope I' don't appear patronising to you.

Good point re 500 people and 8-0. That's why I'm musing/thinking out loud about the situation to see if we can come up with ideas fe football without losing the game's soul.
I thought that the likes of Andorra receive grants from UEFA/FIFA to assist with expenses for players. If not, I must say I'm astonished that they have to pay to play, travel etc. How, in God's name, can they afford it?? What you've said about this has really opened my eyes.
The Shield competition sems to work well in rugby union with the likes of Kenya, Fiji etc getting a chance to improve a little but of course that's seven a side, isn't it?
There must be some way the smaller countries can get a better deal. To be fair to FIFA they SEEM to pour millions of dollars into projects in Trinidad etc for coaching etc. What do you think? I'm stumped at the moment for ideas.

[Gerrit]

No no, I'm enjoying this sort of conversations as well... usually I get very mean answers when I refuse to go with the mass wanting results above and for whom growing bigger is all that matters, most of them don't understand some people still like the amateur spirit. Some people I know used to go to football for the sake of the atmosphere, now since we promoted a few time it's suddenly about results and some disgust someone being even interested in if there's any football in Andorra or San Marino...



And I'm sure their FAs get some money to cover expenses, but not all countries. Sometimes players do invest personal money in it, and know that they don't get paid (even if they'd actually not lose a game their reward would not make up for the costs they make). And even the ones lucky enough to have an FA paying all: none of these tiny nations have professional players but maybe one or two of the squad, so the others have to sacrifice their holidays to play the away games (except for maybe the happy very few who have an employer that gives them extra days off because of their national team duties, but I don't think many employers will do that)

Given the fact that it takes a long while to travel from Bahrein to Guam, you can imagine they don't have much holidays for the family left if their team survives a few rounds.

[hamish]

No no, I'm enjoying this sort of conversations as well... usually I get very mean answers when I refuse to go with the mass wanting results above and for whom growing bigger is all that matters, most of them don't understand some people still like the amateur spirit. Some people I know used to go to football for the sake of the atmosphere, now since we promoted a few time it's suddenly about results and some disgust someone being even interested in if there's any football in Andorra or San Marino...



And I'm sure their FAs get some money to cover expenses, but not all countries. Sometimes players do invest personal money in it, and know that they don't get paid (even if they'd actually not lose a game their reward would not make up for the costs they make). And even the ones lucky enough to have an FA paying all: none of these tiny nations have professional players but maybe one or two of the squad, so the others have to sacrifice their holidays to play the away games (except for maybe the happy very few who have an employer that gives them extra days off because of their national team duties, but I don't think many employers will do that)

Given the fact that it takes a long while to travel from Bahrein to Guam, you can imagine they don't have much holidays for the family left if their team survives a few rounds.

Unbelievable what you've stated above, Gerrit. And here was I thinking that FIFA/UEFA subsidised the smaller countries to a degree. Thanks for educating me on that.

I totally emphasise with your opinion on the game in San Marino etc. Here's why. When I was a kid growing up in Ireland, it was almost unpatriotic to play or support football (soccer) and I can understand the people trying to organise the game in the smaller countries because myself, and many like me, went through all that in the 60s and 70s, including being threatened with expulsion from school for playing football. That's only just over 30 years ago!
There was agreat feeling, though, in starting something and developing it. My club, Ballinasloe, now has loads of teams, floodlighting, all weather pitches etc and still hold a great amateur spirit.

Know what? You're right that the game loses something when it grows - sponsorship, BS PR and all the trappings follow and obscure the whole point of the game. I was involved in schools football in the nineties and the amount of time spent with meetings with sponsors. PR firms etc and all that bull$h!t meant it was almost impossible to find enough time to get involved with actually organising football. But, what is the answer?? Do we stick with vast areas of the world playing in isolation, ignored, unsupported etc etc. I haven't got a clue to an answer to be honest.

[Gerrit]

Note that my statements are based on what I hear and read, to have the 100% truth we may better contact FIFA, UEFA and the FAs. I never heard of funds for the tiny nations, doesn't sound like UEFA anyway. The association will rather allow a sixth Spanish team in the Champions League than the actual champions of Latvia and Georgia, because UEFA seems to think the best way to act is to furthen enrichen the already wealthy clubs and protects them, which is why we now have non-champions in the Champions League whereas it used to be only the action champion of every country (the good old days...)

So it would very much surprise me that UEFA would reach out to San Marino, Andorra, Luxembourg, Malta, Liechtenstein and the Faroe Islands (I may have forgotten one...) and give them money for further development. Certainly they won't fund them more than they do the bigger FAs, the big clubs have too much power in the UEFA so they will rather try to keep the mighty clubs mighty rather than to close the gap with the smaller ones. Same goes for national teams I'm afraid. I could be wrong, but I never saw any signs of it, whereas I do remember the words of some actual players of tiny nations. Maybe things changed meanwhile, but it would surprise me really. I just want to stay: don't take my words as a dogma, it could be that I have spoken to the wrong people or heard only one side of the story. But as I said, it would surprise me if it were not like it.

Also, I give an example from the power of the big ones: Gibraltar has every single facility needed to be accepted as a FIFA and UEFA member. However, Spain says if they dare to accept Gibraltar as a seperate entity, they will boycot the World Cup or other big tournaments. UEFA and FIFA will never risk to lose a big country which brings sponsors and money, so they rather just ignore the wish of a smaller nation whose only desire is to just entire the game as well... I could be wrong again, but I'm rather sure if it were Gibraltar suddenly having an objection against the behaviour of Spain, the UEFA's answer would be "you'll just have to take it or leave it".
Maybe I'm being too harsh on the big ones here, and maybe I make some mistakes here in my views on UEFA protecting the big ones. But I just never got a signal to prove my ideas wrong, I have the feeling that double standards are very common in professional football and so far I have found nothing yet to dismantle my own suspicion towards this subject.

[hamish]

Note that my statements are based on what I hear and read, to have the 100% truth we may better contact FIFA, UEFA and the FAs. I never heard of funds for the tiny nations, doesn't sound like UEFA anyway. The association will rather allow a sixth Spanish team in the Champions League than the actual champions of Latvia and Georgia, because UEFA seems to think the best way to act is to furthen enrichen the already wealthy clubs and protects them, which is why we now have non-champions in the Champions League whereas it used to be only the action champion of every country (the good old days...)

So it would very much surprise me that UEFA would reach out to San Marino, Andorra, Luxembourg, Malta, Liechtenstein and the Faroe Islands (I may have forgotten one...) and give them money for further development. Certainly they won't fund them more than they do the bigger FAs, the big clubs have too much power in the UEFA so they will rather try to keep the mighty clubs mighty rather than to close the gap with the smaller ones. Same goes for national teams I'm afraid. I could be wrong, but I never saw any signs of it, whereas I do remember the words of some actual players of tiny nations. Maybe things changed meanwhile, but it would surprise me really. I just want to stay: don't take my words as a dogma, it could be that I have spoken to the wrong people or heard only one side of the story. But as I said, it would surprise me if it were not like it.

Also, I give an example from the power of the big ones: Gibraltar has every single facility needed to be accepted as a FIFA and UEFA member. However, Spain says if they dare to accept Gibraltar as a seperate entity, they will boycot the World Cup or other big tournaments. UEFA and FIFA will never risk to lose a big country which brings sponsors and money, so they rather just ignore the wish of a smaller nation whose only desire is to just entire the game as well... I could be wrong again, but I'm rather sure if it were Gibraltar suddenly having an objection against the behaviour of Spain, the UEFA's answer would be "you'll just have to take it or leave it".
Maybe I'm being too harsh on the big ones here, and maybe I make some mistakes here in my views on UEFA protecting the big ones. But I just never got a signal to prove my ideas wrong, I have the feeling that double standards are very common in professional football and so far I have found nothing yet to dismantle my own suspicion towards this subject.

Sorry to keep agreeing with you Gerrit.

Yep, I read about the Spain Gibralter situation and it's a disgrace.

I am totally against the G14 clubs who will, if they get, their way, destroy football as we know it. In fact, the G14 plans are a death sentence for football. period.

I never call the Champions League, well, the Champions League. I still call it the European Cup. I think it's unreal to call something Champions when you have loads of clubs who qualify from second, third and fourth place in their respective leagues. It's ironic that the real champions in that competition are the Shelbounes, HJK Helsinkis etc etc?? and from the smaller leagues.

Don't run yourself down regarding your knowledge of world football. If the lazy fcuking reporters we have in the press these days did even a 20% investigation that you have done I'd believe what I read in the sports pages.
I've said it before, if I want to REALLY know what's happening in football, Footies is the place to go.
Respect, man.

[Sheridan]

Gerrit, you're being a tad unfair here. UEFA and FIFA offer admirable assistance to smaller and more impoverished associations through projects such as the Goal programme (http://www.fifa.com/goal/index_E.html), the Eastern European Assistance Bureau (€85+ million, much of it Champions League money, distributed in assistance funds to 13 associations in Eastern Europe since 1995) and the Hat-Trick Programme. (http://www.uefa.com/uefa/news/Kind=262144/newsId=290448.html) I think the fact that FIFA's membership numbers 200+ associations, and that all bar a handful compete in the qualifying rounds of the World Cup, bears testament to the organisation's inclusive principles.

I will allow, however, that UEFA, which faces constant pressure from G14, sometimes fails to cope with that pressure in a manner consistent with those laudable principles.

[Gerrit]

There are some helps indeed, but this doesn't cover for example that the players of these tiny teams (usually all amateurs, San Marino for example has 1 pro and all others work fulltime) have to take days off for the games etc. Maybe a few employers understand the situation and make special arrangements, but far from all these lads will have the luck to have so much help.

[Sheridan]

I hardly think UEFA's remit extends that far. In any case, some of the most prominent names in world football also have difficulty securing their employers' blessing for time off to play internationals....

Who's the full-time sammarinese player, btw, Andy Selva? I seem to remember him scoring a nice goal against Belgium a few years back, although its significance was somewhat eroded by the ten Belgian goals which preceded it.

Odd that Liechtenstein should have produced a Serie A success story (Mario Frick) before San Marino. Or Ireland, for that matter.

[Gerrit]

Andy Selva, who plays in the Italian division 4, is San Marino's only professional player. He scored the 10-1 in Belgium which I was very pleased with, thanks to his goal Norway still holds the record of 10-0 vs San Marino on their own :cool: The San Marinese FA also has a female secretary who is a full-timer within the association, apart from her and Selva the others are all semi-amateurs or full amateurs.

Next week it's Belgium vs San Marino once again BTW. Will be an easy one for the Belgians normally, though you never know (fingers crossed...)

[hamish]

Jesus, lads, WHERE do you guys get all this information. Websites? Magazines? Contacts?
I'm really impressed.
Awesome, informative and entertaining.
I love to hear about football in the so called smaller nations and make comparisons etc.
Get a lot of stuff from World Soccer and 442 myself.
Is France Football available in English translation??

[Snoop Drog]

Just make sure that the info is hard to verify & then make it up as you go along :eek:

Only kidding Gerrit :D

[Poor Student]

Jesus, lads, WHERE do you guys get all this information. Websites? Magazines? Contacts?
I'm really impressed.
Awesome, informative and entertaining.
I love to hear about football in the so called smaller nations and make comparisons etc.
Get a lot of stuff from World Soccer and 442 myself.
Is France Football available in English translation??

A mixture of the net, being nerds, the aformentioned magazines, other magazines and books.