Slovakia v Republic of Ireland - 8th October 2020 - Euro 2020 Playoff Semi Final

[irishfan86]

I asked this in another forum. Exactly what i was wondering too. Hes quick over a couple of yards, and hes pacey, tenacious, and not easily beaten off the ball, can receive in tight spaces and still not be dispossessed(switzerland exception), hes also a very good tackler generally.

Not to say it’s the same calibre of player we’re talking about here, but I can understand if Kenny is reluctant to experiment too extremely with a Coleman in midfield approach given what happened with Cyrus Christie during the O’Neill era.

That said given our problems with finding a defensive midfielder and the real benefit of getting both Coleman and Doherty on the pitch, I’d love to see it tried out at some point, in the Nations League perhaps or a friendly (will those ever come back?).

[paul_oshea]

For me it's an obvious experiment to try. He can cover for Doherty if he bombs forward. We get the best of Doherty going forward and the best of Coleman defensively. It also keeps the same formation and system that Kenny seems strongly about.

[passinginterest]

Might as well have a guess at team selection after what we've seen. I think it'll be 4-3-3 again, no point spending this camp getting used to it if it's not the planned formation for Slovakia. I think he'll pick players who are getting game time, it was obvious from the two games that the middle three in particular will need to be playing every week. Of the options, I'd say Arter, Hendrick and McCarthy might be in pole position. Brady for all the nice flashes left us badly exposed defensively and died a death. I saw a position chart at half time and Brady, Connolly and Stevens were on top of each other and very advanced, it explained the big hole behind Brady that was exposed a few times in the first half an hour. Jack Byrne might come into consideration, offers something different in terms of unlocking a defense, allegedly carrying a niggle and Rovers had a huge game at the weekend so might explain his absence this time around.

The back four and keeper, the only real dilemma is likely to be Doherty or Coleman. Will Coleman start for Everton, if so I have a suspicion he might get back in for the Slovakia game. He offers more solidity defensively and can still get up the pitch when needed.

Front three is probably the most unpredictable. Connolly has probably done enough to be sure of a start, especially if he starts the season well. McGoldrick is a very different forward to Idah, but possible offers something that we're missing in the midfield in terms of ability to pick open a defense. Robinson made an impact when introduced, so maybe Connolly, McGoldrick, Robinson the favorites now, but Long and Idah wouldn't be too far away and again, playing time and form will be important. Does Obafemi find a way in if he's scoring and playing in the opening weeks of the season? He might work alongside McGoldrick if there's a midfielder like O'Dowda or Byrne in the third forward role?

Likely team;
Randolph
Coleman
Duffy
Egan
Stevens
McCarthy
Arter
Hendrick
Robinson
McGoldrick
Connolly

Options; Doherty, Molumby, Hourihane, Idah, O'Dowda, Long, Obafemi, Byrne

[paul_oshea]

Interesting passinginterest, i was the only one to comment on here about players being bunched in small areas further up on the field, and now you've said that there was a player chart shown at half time( i am not aware but would like to see it) that showed them bunched. It was anathema to our attacking flow and options. THey looked clueless. That suggests lack of understanding and preparation in training.

Agree re brady that ball he thought was going out he just left and didnt even bother to follow the finnish runner - who subsequently kept it in.

[seanfhear]

I asked this in another forum. Exactly what i was wondering too. Hes quick over a couple of yards, and hes pacey, tenacious, and not easily beaten off the ball, can receive in tight spaces and still not be dispossessed(switzerland exception), hes also a very good tackler generally.
I’d like to see it tried somewhere along the line. The Germans had great success for a few years when they put Lahm in midfield . Slightly off topic. I thought Lahm should have played on a bit longer for the Germans.

[Stuttgart88]

30 is past it in Germany, unless you're a keeper or a 6 foot 7 forward!

[passinginterest]

Interesting passinginterest, i was the only one to comment on here about players being bunched in small areas further up on the field, and now you've said that there was a player chart shown at half time( i am not aware but would like to see it) that showed them bunched. It was anathema to our attacking flow and options. THey looked clueless. That suggests lack of understanding and preparation in training.

Agree re brady that ball he thought was going out he just left and didnt even bother to follow the finnish runner - who subsequently kept it in.

It was a retweet around half time by a jouro type as far as I can remember, sorry I didn't follow the account that tweeted it and now I can't find it. I do enjoy some stats and visualisations!

[eekers]

There is a case that the players are better suited to 352.
Duffy and Egan are used to plying 3 at the back at club level.
The two full backs play as wingbacks at club level.
There already is a three man midfield.
McGoldrick and Connolly play 2 up front at club level.

This would get our most dangerous player Connolly into the penalty box instead stuck out wide.
Coleman could come in as the third centre half on the right.
We don't have to find the defensive midfielder we simply don't have.
Obafemi can now be an option as a second striker. Kenny didn't think he was an option out wide or had the physicality to play in the middle on his own.

Something like

-----------------Randolph----------------
--------Coleman - Egan - Duffy---------
Doherty--------McCarthy-------Stevens
----------Hendrick------Brady-----------
--------Mc Goldrick---Connolly----------

[Bielsa´s irish]

There is a case that the players are better suited to 352.
Duffy and Egan are used to plying 3 at the back at club level.
The two full backs play as wingbacks at club level.
There already is a three man midfield.
McGoldrick and Connolly play 2 up front at club level.



This would get our most dangerous player Connolly into the penalty box instead stuck out wide.
Coleman could come in as the third centre half on the right.
We don't have to find the defensive midfielder we simply don't have.
Obafemi can now be an option as a second striker. Kenny didn't think he was an option out wide or had the physicality to play in the middle on his own.

Something like

-----------------Randolph----------------
--------Coleman - Egan - Duffy---------
Doherty--------McCarthy-------Stevens
----------Hendrick------Brady-----------
--------Mc Goldrick---Connolly----------

I like the team but dont know about Connolly yet. I think of Long...better plus another number 9 from the bench. I agree with the rest.

but I think he is gonna play a back 4.


-------------------------randolph--------------------

coleman----------duffy-----------egan-------stevens

--------hendrick------mccarthy--------brady/arter

S.Long/Robinson--------mcgoldrick-----connolly/mcclean

[Diggs246]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/extra.ie/2020/09/07/sport/soccernews/noel-king-stephen-kenny-era/amp

Everytime I see or hear from Noel King I just want to shout "KNACKER"!!

[Bielsa´s irish]

squad expected according to games and SK taste

Randolph
Travers
O'Hara/Kelleher

Coleman
Duffy
Long
Lenihan/Clark
Williams
Stevens
Egan

Arter
Doherty
McCarthy
Hendrick
Hourihane
Cullen/Molumby
Byrne
Brady

Long
McClean
Robinson/Odowda
McGoldrick
Connolly
Collins/Idah

[mark12345]

I like Noel King and he was my coach many moons ago. But he is clearly wrong in this instance. Those people who are knocking Stephen Kenny need to ask themselves one simple question. How the hell did Finland get so good, so good that they could play us off the park? And if they can do it, can we not do it? So give Stephen Kenny time, plenty of time.

[elatedscum]

I’ve met Noel King a number of times over the last decade and on a personal level have found him a nice person and someone who cares about football in ireland...

Saying that, this strikes me as him waiting for 2 years to dig the knife. When people compared how Stephen fared as manager of the 21s to Noel, there was natural criticism of King.

Seems to me like King was waiting for the first opportunity to question Kenny’s attributes. Considering King is an employee of the FAI, does him authoring this piece not seem a little questionable?

If I was the person signing his cheques, I’d have a few words with him...

[Stuttgart88]

I think Noel King left the FAI in June (http://https://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/noel-kings-long-association-with-fai-at-an-end-39392734.html)

[Diggs246]

His track record with the u21s was hysterically bad. Any stats on this very welcome as I need a laugh

[Olé Olé]

With Slovakia on the horizon, I am looking forward to Tets stats from the weekend. I think this could be one of the best weekends in a while for Irish starters. 12 players appeared last weekend. I think 10 players have started already this this game week and there could be up to 4 starters tonight in Villa v Sheffield United.

Starters: Coleman, Robinson, O'Shea, McCarthy, Doherty, Hendrick, Connolly, Long, Brady, Dunne.

Subs: Long and Smallbone off the bench for Southampton.

[Fixer82]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/extra.ie/2020/09/07/sport/soccernews/noel-king-stephen-kenny-era/amp

Everytime I see or hear from Noel King I just want to shout "KNACKER"!!

You need to maybe have a look at that behaviour

[Diggs246]

Fair enough. The phase was wrong and inappropriate but he was all the was wrong with the FAI and company man with no ability

[Olé Olé]

With Slovakia on the horizon, I am looking forward to Tets stats from the weekend. I think this could be one of the best weekends in a while for Irish starters. 12 players appeared last weekend. I think 10 players have started already this this game week and there could be up to 4 starters tonight in Villa v Sheffield United.

Starters: Coleman, Robinson, O'Shea, McCarthy, Doherty, Hendrick, Connolly, Long, Brady, Dunne.

Subs: Long and Smallbone off the bench for Southampton.

Hourihane, Egan, Stevens and McGoldrick all start. 14 Irish starters this weekend.

[paul_oshea]

I know Kenny would never say it, but its kinda annoying that we have to be at this stage now when any manager of the previous decade would have used that as their first line of defence. I'm sure it would have then moved to, we dont have the players in the top 6. Like international football is only made up of top 6 players.

[Razors left peg]

Hopefully Kenny can make the most of it and get these players playing well for us. The argument from previous managers that we dont have the players to compete has always been BS.

I still hate the argument that we dont have players playing for the top clubs like we did in the 80s very annoying. Would Houghton, Alridge, Whelan, Lawrence, Beglin and others have all played for Liverpools winning teams if Liverpool were bringing in top players from all over the world.

[Bielsa´s irish]

[QUOTE=Razors left peg;2049413]Hopefully Kenny can make the most of it and get these players playing well for us. The argument from previous managers that we dont have the players to compete has always been BS.

I still hate the argument that we dont have players playing for the top clubs like we did in the 80s very annoying. Would Houghton, Alridge, Whelan, Lawrence, Beglin and others have all played for Liverpools winning teams if Liverpool were bringing in top players from all over the world.[/QUOTe

Yes. all of them were world class players. Sadly for Beglin though. Lawrenson and Whelan were class. Ray was ok. Aldo would have played more time in Spain were he is known as Diego De La Vega el zorro for spanish speakers worldwide till this day

[tetsujin1979]

No, he's not.

[Razors left peg]

So a quick google of Diego De La Vega el zorro and John Aldridge together produces zero results considering its known "World Wide"... can we please stop the madness

[Trequartista20]

Aldridge was known as El Zorro during his time at Real Sociedad. I knew this as an Irish fan who's read a lot of books and articles about our players. I'm not sure it's quite universal knowledge, however.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2003/jun/19/sport.comment1

[Bielsa´s irish]

So a quick google of Diego De La Vega el zorro and John Aldridge together produces zero results considering its known "World Wide"... can we please stop the madness

sorry el zorro aldridge la liga or basque club from lovely Donostia Real Sociedad de fútbol

[Bungle]

Hopefully Kenny can make the most of it and get these players playing well for us. The argument from previous managers that we dont have the players to compete has always been BS.

I still hate the argument that we dont have players playing for the top clubs like we did in the 80s very annoying. Would Houghton, Alridge, Whelan, Lawrence, Beglin and others have all played for Liverpools winning teams if Liverpool were bringing in top players from all over the world.

Whelan and Lawrenson were both world class. Were it not for injury, Beglin would have been also.
Houghton, Staunton and Aldridge were high class players. Aldridge was top class in La Liga and one of the top forwards there. Staunton and Houghton would have done very well on the continent also.

[Razors left peg]

Don't get me wrong, I love all the players I mentioned. I just have my doubts that Aldo and Houghton would have been pulled from Oxford United into Liverpool in today's transfer market. The competition for places in the top 6 clubs in Premiership now is insane when they can get anyone from around the world so I have my doubts all those players would have been playing in title winning teams

[seanfhear]

Don't get me wrong, I love all the players I mentioned. I just have my doubts that Aldo and Houghton would have been pulled from Oxford United into Liverpool in today's transfer market. The competition for places in the top 6 clubs in Premiership now is insane when they can get anyone from around the world so I have my doubts all those players would have been playing in title winning teams
The Present teams would definitely beat the old teams but the players on the old teams are very old now.

[tetsujin1979]

Aldridge was known as El Zorro during his time at Real Sociedad. I knew this as an Irish fan who's read a lot of books and articles about our players. I'm not sure it's quite universal knowledge, however.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2003/jun/19/sport.comment1

The point is, he's not now, and since even Google can't find anything relevant, we won't either.

[samhaydenjr]

His track record with the u21s was hysterically bad. Any stats on this very welcome as I need a laugh

Actually, he had a couple of fairly respectable third-place finishes in qualifying. When he took over for the last few qualifiers for the 2011, we were well on our way to our second last-place finish in a row. And while he had some good players going through, I don't think he had the depth of quality at his disposal that Kenny and Crawford have had.

[samhaydenjr]

Hopefully Kenny can make the most of it and get these players playing well for us. The argument from previous managers that we dont have the players to compete has always been BS.

I still hate the argument that we dont have players playing for the top clubs like we did in the 80s very annoying. Would Houghton, Alridge, Whelan, Lawrence, Beglin and others have all played for Liverpools winning teams if Liverpool were bringing in top players from all over the world.

Also, of the 20-man squad at Euro 88, only 12 were playing for English top-flight clubs in the preceding season - 3 were at Celtic, 3 were at Second Division teams, David Kelly was plying his trade for Walsall in the Third Division, while John Byrne was playing for the worst team in the French first division

[elatedscum]

Actually, he had a couple of fairly respectable third-place finishes in qualifying. When he took over for the last few qualifiers for the 2011, we were well on our way to our second last-place finish in a row. And while he had some good players going through, I don't think he had the depth of quality at his disposal that Kenny and Crawford have had.

He didn’t use what depth he had well though. The likes of Jack Byrne not being included in his final campaign, no logic there, including Dimaio ahead of him. Jimmy Dunne was ignored until the nordies tried to convince him. Dan Cleary was also a better CB than the lads who played in the last campaign. Talbot better than Liam Bossin as a keeper.

By the end of the campaign, Daire O’Connor and Daniel Kelly we’re viable options. Ogbene and Crowley weren’t really pursued. That’s just the 96-97 kids.

Imagine this team for King’s final campaign...

Kelleher

Whelan
Dunne
Cleary
Manning

Ogbene
Rice
Cullen
Byrne
Curtis

Hale

That’s a very strong u21 team...


Kenny made a very competitive u21 squad by

A) moving players up the age groups as soon as they were ready. Meanwhile King stuck with the one squad from 96/97, even after the 98 and 99 kids graduated 19s. The only players to be used from later were Ronan Hale and Conor Ronan as far as I remember. Whereas Kenny immediately moved up Lee O’Connor, Conor Coventry and Adam Idah. Meanwhile, the likes of Connolly, Parrott, Knight, Collins, Bazunu etc etc weren’t far behind. 5 age groups in total were used in competitive fixtures... (98,99,00,01,02)

B) getting the best out of LOI players with first team experience. The likes of Farrugia, Elbouzedi, Scales and Leahy were all important players from the squad. Certainly, in the previous campaign LOI players with genuine upside were regularly ignored in favour of the likes of Quigley, Donnelan etc. who clearly had very little chance of being useful footballers for us... Curtis and McGrath are the only one I can think of who received a call-up on the back of LOI performances (as opposed to someone who was in England and was a squad regular and then went home ie Danny Kane). Also, McGrath didn’t really get much of an opportunity, maybe 1 game or 2 off the bench...

C) Playing early, playing often. Games against Ireland amateurs, homegrown squads, Toulon tournament etc etc. Rotating fringe players. The more players you see, the greater the chance of finding talent.. and Kenny found about 3 options in every position...

[Bungle]

Don't get me wrong, I love all the players I mentioned. I just have my doubts that Aldo and Houghton would have been pulled from Oxford United into Liverpool in today's transfer market. The competition for places in the top 6 clubs in Premiership now is insane when they can get anyone from around the world so I have my doubts all those players would have been playing in title winning teams

Fair point re Aldo and Ray. Having said that Klopp took Robertson from Hull so it can still happen.

[jbyrne]

Hopefully Kenny can make the most of it and get these players playing well for us. The argument from previous managers that we dont have the players to compete has always been BS.

I still hate the argument that we dont have players playing for the top clubs like we did in the 80s very annoying. Would Houghton, Alridge, Whelan, Lawrence, Beglin and others have all played for Liverpools winning teams if Liverpool were bringing in top players from all over the world.

whelan and lawrenson are european cup winners which would support the view that they were top players at the time.
houghton, aldridge and beglin could well be european cup winners if english clubs were not banned in the late 80s.
can only judge the players at the time they were playing and all five were good enough to play for one of the best club sides in europe in the 80s.

[Eminence Grise]

The point is, he's not now, and since even Google can't find anything relevant, we won't either.


BI spouts a lot of BS but Aldo was called Zorro during his time in Spain, and after he left by at least one sub in the Indo. I'm not sure he was called it after the masked swordsman, or because he was a fox in the box -the latter I assume because the original Zorro was a US pulp-fiction creation. Personally, Aldo works fine for me. I've never called him anything else.

https://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/el-zorro-on-the-mark-26056027.html

[pineapple stu]

Hopefully Kenny can make the most of it and get these players playing well for us. The argument from previous managers that we dont have the players to compete has always been BS.

I still hate the argument that we dont have players playing for the top clubs like we did in the 80s very annoying. Would Houghton, Alridge, Whelan, Lawrence, Beglin and others have all played for Liverpools winning teams if Liverpool were bringing in top players from all over the world.
Football has moved on, and the Ireland team of today would probably beat the Ireland team of Euro 88 at their prime.

But relatively speaking, the Ireland team has most definitely gone backwards a lot. We have no players close to the relative calibre of Houghton, Aldridge, Whelan, Lawrenson or Beglim. It's why we're serious also-rans now where reaching the last 16 of the Euros is hailed as a major achievement (when in 2002, reaching the last 16 of the world was kind of expected, even without our best player).

[Bungle]

whelan and lawrenson are european cup winners which would support the view that they were top players at the time.
houghton, aldridge and beglin could well be european cup winners if english clubs were not banned in the late 80s.
can only judge the players at the time they were playing and all five were good enough to play for one of the best club sides in europe in the 80s.

The Liverpool team of the late 70s and 80s was imo the greatest English side of all time. I would say definitely top 5 club side of all tine. I think their late 80s vintage was brilliant but in fairness they would have been up against AC Milan of that era, who for my money is the best club side I've seen in my lifetime. Not saying they wouldn't have won 1-2 more after Heysel, but not set in stone either. A final between the two around 1990 would have been a hell of a match, but I'd have AC coming out on top.

Not a Liverpool fan, as I only support Ireland. However, I may be biased regarding them and Everton as I like Liverpudlians best from having lived in England and at a time when other cities weren't so welcoming to a young Irish lad, they were generally top class. I was living there when Ray scored against England and they were loving us beating them.

[jbyrne]

Football has moved on, and the Ireland team of today would probably beat the Ireland team of Euro 88 at their prime.


give them equal fitness etc and the euro 88 team would beat the current team 9 times out of 10.
its easy to forget just how good some of that team was and it was also full of tough pros and leaders.

[pineapple stu]

Well yes - but "equal fitness, etc" is quite a lot!

But effectively I agree with you that the point that "We don't have players playing for the top clubs like we did in the 80s" is entirely legitimate.

[CSAD]

Football has moved on, and the Ireland team of today would probably beat the Ireland team of Euro 88 at their prime.

But relatively speaking, the Ireland team has most definitely gone backwards a lot. We have no players close to the relative calibre of Houghton, Aldridge, Whelan, Lawrenson or Beglim. It's why we're serious also-rans now where reaching the last 16 of the Euros is hailed as a major achievement (when in 2002, reaching the last 16 of the world was kind of expected, even without our best player).

I would have expected the current Irish team to get out of that group also, the euros is hard because there are no easy matches but in the World Cup a lot of filler teams qualify (Germany,SA,Cameroon) and let’s not forget even that 2002 team only beat Saudi.

[Diggs246]

the real tragedy is we will have to watch this game at home as I don't think the Dublin pubs will be open on time?

[Stuttgart88]

Don't get me wrong, I love all the players I mentioned. I just have my doubts that Aldo and Houghton would have been pulled from Oxford United into Liverpool in today's transfer market. The competition for places in the top 6 clubs in Premiership now is insane when they can get anyone from around the world so I have my doubts all those players would have been playing in title winning teamsAldo was well-known outside Div 1, regularly topping the Div 2 goalscoring charts I think. I couldn't believe it when he declared.

Whatever about Oxford, Beglin (discussed above) came from Rovers. That definitely doesn't happen anymore! Class as he was I'm not even sure he was Rovers' best left back of that era. John Coady (unremarkable spell at Chelsea) was also exceptional in the LOI but I'd say Kevin Brady was the pick of the 3. He followed Jim McLaughlin, Mick Byrne, Mick Neville and Dermot Keely to Shels I think, after the 4 in a row side broke up. Brady had electrifying pace. Anyone else here remember him?

[Bielsa´s irish]

hi lads any gossip?
when the squad is released?

[tetsujin1979]

I expected it on Friday, but there's nothing in the news about it, so now I'd expect it after this weekend's fixtures. Probably Monday or Tuesday.

[Razors left peg]

Can't imagine its going to be any different to last squad. No one who was left out has really put in amazing performances for club to say they should be in. Maybe Jack Byrne for Molumby if he wants to get more creativity in there

[Diggs246]

Troy is starting. If he does the business v Burnley I could see him getting in

[Razors left peg]

Troy is starting. If he does the business v Burnley I could see him getting in

Yeah fair point, but he was named in initial squad anyway

[Diggs246]

Was he I thought he replaced mcgoldrick for Bulgaria

[Razors left peg]

Think he was named knowing that Mcgoldrick wasn't going to be available.

Looks a bit off the pace in 1st half hour tonight