View Full Version : Rovers docked 8 points
OneRedArmy
16/05/2005, 5:25 PM
I'd say he was a wee bit more concerned with winning the league than anything about Derry but whatever you want to believe
Based on his behaviour at games over the past 15 or so years against us we seem to get under his skin a bit more than others (turning up with the wrong jersies, assaulting fans, storming out of the directors box in the Brandywell cause he can give it but can't take it etc.).
Since its not a rivalry, you won't be too bothered when we go top on Fri night and knock you out of the cup (again) then?
:p
Raising €250,000 in week? Trying to save the club from extinction? Still being around after 18 years of homelessness? Bringing 400 fans to Sweden even though the tie was effectively over? Do you want me to go on?
Anyone with even a passing interest in Irish football knows how brilliant the Rovers fans have been. To say otherwise is just bitterness.
Yeah but bringing 400 to a european game is easy. Bringing more than 600 to a game against Dub City last year was a hard task and one you failed. It could also be argued that Rovers' fans reputation (which although might be OTT in some circles is not without foundation) was/is a major factor in the lack of competant professionals wanting to attach themselves to the club ;)
Of course you won't admit it (not even to yourself!) but not everyone thinks your fans are great. (As you said on you board, if even only a 100 signed up for the 5 year member ship you'd have €500K. As it is you have €250K) Put all the spin on it you like but thats surely disappointing
GavinZac
17/05/2005, 12:32 AM
What about the fans of Cork Hibernian why did they not take those sort of steps?
im afraid you'll have to ask someone who was born by then.
mypost
17/05/2005, 5:06 AM
Mypost, Derry used to have thousands at away matches. Naturally enough over time this has wained.
It only wained because Derry weren't as successful as they were when they came into the league. The same happened to Sligo. 10 years ago, they were a good side, and even won a round in Europe. The Showgrounds was packed for all of their home games. Then they were relegated, struggled, and the attendances nosedived. They don't get anything like those mid-90's crowds there now.
RE: 400 Club: Once the emergency factor dies down it's going to be very hard to extract any more blood from the same old stones
The club has been established for 4 years, where hundreds of thousands of Euro has been raised and given to SRFC, and will continue to be raised after the emergency period.
OneRedArmy
17/05/2005, 7:55 AM
It only wained because Derry weren't as successful as they were when they came into the league.
Not true. We were getting crowds of 10,000 when we came into the League and regular travelling support of 3,000 odds due to the euphoria of actually having a senior football side again. Remember this was pre-Sky, pre pubs and off-licenses opening on a Sunday and there was little other competition.
When we won the League in 97 we didn't have crowds of 10,000 or anything near that and we have been in the top 3 all season this year and our crowd average is about 2,500.
Da Real Rover
17/05/2005, 4:40 PM
It only wained because Derry weren't as successful as they were when they came into the league. The same happened to Sligo. 10 years ago, they were a good side, and even won a round in Europe. The Showgrounds was packed for all of their home games. Then they were relegated, struggled, and the attendances nosedived. They don't get anything like those mid-90's crowds there now.
Nosedived, at the limerick game we got over 2000 and thats in the first division. I'd like to see any club in Ireland attract over 2000 people to an utterly useless, depressing excuse for football. Any moderate success and we can draw out a good crowd. I know the crowds droped but for first division average crowds, we draw 3 times that amount for an average game. If we get some moderate success like 1994 we could attract up to 4000.
It's strange that Rovers can get these great crowds against the likes of Limerick and get nothing remotely like it any of the times I've seen them play at home to Harps or Galway in recent years. Kinda makes you wonder.
harpskid
17/05/2005, 6:08 PM
It's strange that Rovers can get these great crowds against the likes of Limerick and get nothing remotely like it any of the times I've seen them play at home to Harps or Galway in recent years. Kinda makes you wonder.
And those two teams would probably bring the biggest away attendances to the Showgrounds due to the proximity of Sligo for both sets of fans :rolleyes:
Green Force
17/05/2005, 6:15 PM
Rovers simply had to be punished. If they weren't and are then taken over through the examinership, the previous board could've run up debts of €2.3Mill and got a license through fraud and the "new" Rovers would've started fresh with a minimal debt...
The examinership is a legal right afforded to any company, including other league clubs and Rovers are fully entitled to enter into it.
As yet the FAI have failed to give the legal basis for the punishment, but it appears that the punishment is for a mistake in the accounts, not for Rovers being in Examinership.
As the FAI were aware of this fact before the season started they are on VERY thin ice punishing Rovers for that fact especially as Bob Breen and the Licence committee flagged it but the FAI ignored him and awarded Rovers a licence anyway.
Green Force
17/05/2005, 6:22 PM
Yeah but bringing 400 to a european game is easy. Bringing more than 600 to a game against Dub City last year was a hard task and one you failed. It could also be argued that Rovers' fans reputation (which although might be OTT in some circles is not without foundation) was/is a major factor in the lack of competant professionals wanting to attach themselves to the club ;)
Of course you won't admit it (not even to yourself!) but not everyone thinks your fans are great. (As you said on you board, if even only a 100 signed up for the 5 year member ship you'd have €500K. As it is you have €250K) Put all the spin on it you like but thats surely disappointing
100 people = €250k, there was 80 new monthly paying members in the space of a week and presumably the other 180 are not in a position to get a loan or 1 week was to short to be able to arrange it. 40% of existing members is a good strike rate for €2,500 of a lump sum.
CollegeTillIDie
17/05/2005, 7:11 PM
Nosedived, at the limerick game we got over 2000 and thats in the first division. I'd like to see any club in Ireland attract over 2000 people to an utterly useless, depressing excuse for football. Any moderate success and we can draw out a good crowd. I know the crowds droped but for first division average crowds, we draw 3 times that amount for an average game. If we get some moderate success like 1994 we could attract up to 4000.
Nowadays nobody would. However when Derry were getting 10,000 to the Brandywell, they were in the First Division. Admittedly this was 1985/87 .
Da Real Rover
17/05/2005, 7:50 PM
It's strange that Rovers can get these great crowds against the likes of Limerick and get nothing remotely like it any of the times I've seen them play at home to Harps or Galway in recent years. Kinda makes you wonder.
Look im not pulling those figures out of my arse cause if you look at the official attendance of the game it is 2000 and if you ask anyone who was at that game 2000 is a sound approxiamte attendance. So just cause ye bring the 40 or so fans to the showgrounds last year and didnt get the full house ye deserve, ill just put that down to yer B.O. problem. :D
Patrick Dunne
17/05/2005, 11:26 PM
.. alright, that when Galway United went to the Showgrounds last year, there seemed to be at most 600 at the two games, and probably far less.
So Harps and Galway supporters are lying. The funny thing about Sligo Rovers is your need to artifically boost attendances. If there are 150 people in Terryland Park for a game, then I will estimate the attendance at 150, not some ridiculous figure to boost my flagging self-confidence.
Sligo's "official" attendances are taken from their website and are always "2000" or "1500". Surely not official attendances by the standards of normal clubs. In fairness, they seem to be getting bigger attendances than last season, but anyone watching TV3 can see that the "official" figures are incorrect.
Patrick Dunne
17/05/2005, 11:51 PM
Wit
Ders
Der
Dicrepencies
No capitals
Ladies and gentlemen, I give you the Sligo educational system.
manic da hoop
18/05/2005, 12:38 PM
What the fcuk has this talk about Sligo's crowds got to do with the title of this thread? Stick to the bloody subject or discuss this elsewhere, please!
Dodge
18/05/2005, 11:25 PM
100 people = €250k, there was 80 new monthly paying members in the space of a week and presumably the other 180 are not in a position to get a loan or 1 week was to short to be able to arrange it. 40% of existing members is a good strike rate for €2,500 of a lump sum.
Tp get anyone to do it is suberb but basically you got 100 people to sign up, and I doubt that any of the Dub clubs wouldn't have got that many to sign up to save our respective clubs. Nothing wrong with the Rovers fans but the way some are going on its like they've a HUGE hardcore all saving their club together. 100 fans are, and fair play to them, but any decent sized club could get that...
joeraki
19/05/2005, 6:49 AM
Tp get anyone to do it is suberb but basically you got 100 people to sign up, and I doubt that any of the Dub clubs wouldn't have got that many to sign up to save our respective clubs. Nothing wrong with the Rovers fans but the way some are going on its like they've a HUGE hardcore all saving their club together. 100 fans are, and fair play to them, but any decent sized club could get that...
Bring it to around the 350 mark which is more than decent. Didn't Pats try something like this last year or the year before, how'd that work out ??
Personally i think docking them eight points is ridiculus.
The eircom league is in bits as it is and the last thing that is needed is losing another big fan base.
It is only paperwork and it should be about the football :ball:
manic da hoop
19/05/2005, 10:51 AM
Above all else, the Licencing Committee were in full possession of the facts when they granted the Licence. It was only when the 400 Club made the FAI aware of the errors in the book-keeping that they begun to decide to take action. They are administering punishment to a club that is now being run by the very people who are doing more than the FAI ever will to rectify the kind of shoddy management that has always existed throughout this league. Also, the decision to dock 8 points (why not 7, why not 9, why 50) was based purely on the number of points that Rovers have accumulated to date - they made their decision during the Pats game, at which time we were losing 1-0. What if we had just 2 or 3 points on the board, what if we had 20? Btw, I can only laugh at the "high-and-mighty, serves them right" attitude of some people. Scratch the surface at any club and you'll find enough to throw them out of the league if you scruntinise the rule-book. How is it that not one club was granted a Licence at first, but on appeal EVERYONE got one?
WeAreRovers
19/05/2005, 11:07 AM
Bring it to around the 350 mark which is more than decent. Didn't Pats try something like this last year or the year before, how'd that work out ??
"any decent sized club could get that..."
Well Dodge?
KOH
PATS got 100 plus to sign up for its closest equivilent - 5 year tickets (incidentally theres people at pats who bought life memberships for 250 squid when we were on the verge of winding up!!
now thats value!
Dodge
19/05/2005, 12:15 PM
PATS got 100 plus to sign up for its closest equivilent - 5 year tickets (incidentally theres people at pats who bought life memberships for 250 squid when we were on the verge of winding up!!
The life tickets were £1,000 old money. Saved our club back in 1992...
The Pats 500 club thing was a 5 season ticket, nothing more nothing less(We weren't close to dying). I said at the time it'll look like a failure if they didn't reach 400 but would they listen... As it is we have over 400 individual season tickets (to go with the 203 5 year year tickets - and yeah I checked). We had a monthly draw thing last year were people gave money by direct debit. It was limited to 250 and fully subsribed (not at first though). Myself I couldn't do it as I didn't want to donate more money to club at the time...
I'm saying in a life or death situation Cork, Bohs, Pats, Derry and maybe one or two others could easily raise €250,000 in a week from their fans...
joeraki
19/05/2005, 5:36 PM
I'm saying in a life or death situation Cork, could easily raise €250,000 in a week from their fans...
After 4/5 goes already I'd hope so :cool:
Buller
19/05/2005, 5:59 PM
I'm saying in a life or death situation Cork, Bohs, Pats, Derry and maybe one or two others could easily raise €250,000 in a week from their fans...
I doubt after nearly 20 years of homelessness they could do it though... ;)
I doubt after nearly 20 years of homelessness they could do it though... ;)
20 years haha, yeah it is funny! :D
manic da hoop
20/05/2005, 11:11 AM
20 years haha, yeah it is funny! :D
Yeah, I mean it's not like Pats ever spent any time on the road :rolleyes:
yeah - you're right I better not make light of it in that case... :rolleyes: :p
patsh
20/05/2005, 11:44 AM
I'm saying in a life or death situation Cork, Bohs, Pats, Derry and maybe one or two others could easily raise €250,000 in a week from their fans...
TBH, I'd say you could be hard pushed in Cork, unless one or two big donations come in.....:(
NY Hoop
20/05/2005, 12:19 PM
Wit
Ders
Der
Dicrepencies
No capitals
Ladies and gentlemen, I give you the Sligo educational system.
LOL :D
And bitter muppet of the year goes to gavinzac. And particularly given that he comes from cark where NOBODY gave a #### back in 1983 when there was NO senior team down there.
KOH
KOH
Dodge
21/05/2005, 10:14 AM
Yeah, I mean it's not like Pats ever spent any time on the road :rolleyes:
More than 20 years in total. Guess what, we're still going...
Speranza
21/05/2005, 9:13 PM
According to eleven-a-side rovers will appeal aginst the eight point deduction they have recieved. :eek: What did they expect? To be completly exonerated from the lies told by Maguire and co.
According to eleven-a-side rovers will appeal aginst the eight point deduction they have recieved. :eek: What did they expect? To be completly exonerated from the lies told by Maguire and co.
The Examiner/Administrator said he would not appeal though. :confused: I;d say the only thing they could appeal against is that looks like no clear rules that detail the sanctions for break the rules...?
Poor Student
22/05/2005, 7:24 PM
Yesterday's Herald said they'd appeal too. Very odd as I'd have assumed they cut a deal with the League to give them a points deduction instead of relegation or expulsion on the grounds they wouldn't appeal due to the certainty of the examiner saying they would not appeal.
But if they appeal on the basis that a points deduction isn't mentioned in the rules surely they run the risk that the licenscing commitee will agree and take their license away completely.
I also don't think that the club changing ownership argument works as while any new owners are obviously not guilty of what McGuire and co did they are still reaping the benefits of their ludicrously fraudulant behaviour. Rovers may well not have stayed up last year but for overspending and not paying debts and they wouldn't have got most of their points this year if they still weren't doing the same thing.
Whatever about the ins and outs of it my instinct is that they could well be successful and get away with the whole thing.
Shels supremo wants Hoops kicked out of league
23/05/2005 - 7:05:12 AM
Shelbourne want Shamrock Rovers thrown out of the eircom League after a number of Rovers' fans were involved in crowd trouble before Saturday’s Setanta Cup final.
While the game itself passed off without incident, there was some trouble outside the ground with gardaí making four arrests with a group wearing Shamrock Rovers and Celtic jerseys clashing with Linfield supporters.
Shelbourne secretary Ollie Byrne witnessed the fracas and insists he will appeal against the FAI Club Licensing Committee’s decision to deduct eight points from Rovers for filing the wrong accounts and will instead push for them to be kicked out of football for misbehaving fans.
“We all lose our heads in a moment of passion in sport, but you don’t come with a pre-meditated attitude to do some damage to people and that’s what happened. The clubs know the individuals involved and it’s about time it was stopped,” said Byrne.
“The Licensing Committee did not have the authority to deduct points and to take the Licence off them and then say they can stay in football. You can take the Licence but they can’t deduct the points. I already informed the FAI and Rovers and I felt the way it was done is wrong.”
http://www.breakingnews.ie/2005/05/23/story203749.html#
Poor Student
23/05/2005, 10:16 AM
How can Rovers be responsible for people wearing their jersies going to neutral games? :confused:
Ringo
23/05/2005, 10:38 AM
i blames woodies. i'm not going to shop there anymore. ;)
Poor Student
23/05/2005, 10:40 AM
i blames woodies. i'm not going to shop there anymore. ;)
Ollie is probably in the process of shutting them down as we speak. ;)
Roverstillidie
23/05/2005, 10:45 AM
Ollie is probably in the process of shutting them down as we speak. ;)
he is!! a group of fans wearing celtic OR rovers shirts tangle with linfield outside the ground at a setanta cup game and oily moves to have rovers expelled from the eircom league :confused:
he really is a silly *****.
and he is going to ban all rovers fans from tolka for ever and ever.
Poor Student
23/05/2005, 10:51 AM
I suppose he is in the process of getting Celtic expelled from the SPL too. :D I know football is a business but if Ollie is now persuing Shamrock Rovers to be given the maximum penalty like St. Pats a few years back I think that lacks a certain etiquette. You don't try to ram your competitors out of the game even if it is a business. I'm not an Ollie Byrne hate club bandwagon man myself and I do admire the effort he has put into Shels but I find it distasteful if he is going to make a real concerted effort to have Rovers expelled.
And newbies & foreigners wonder why everyone hates Shelbourne.
Newstalk called them Shelbourne UNITED yesterday on their news bulletin.
:rolleyes:
patsh
23/05/2005, 11:00 AM
Firstly, I don't agee with Byrne and think he is a total toe rag.
However, he has a strong case regarding Rover's licence eh, "difficulties".
Maybe other clubs have as well, but not as bad as what Rover's have gotten away with.
I NEVER want to see Rovers out of the league, but the eL will have to come up with some contortions to get out of this one.
However, he has a strong case regarding Rover's licence eh, "difficulties".
Maybe other clubs have as well, but not as bad as what Rover's have gotten away with.
I NEVER want to see Rovers out of the league, but the eL will have to come up with some contortions to get out of this one.
Well Rovers will obviously demand a full and open enquiry into every clubs licence and the licence committee's functioning. Then we'll see the real situation I suppose.
I mean, we already know that the licencing committee ignored the 400 club when they were told the accounts were boll0x.
I mean will shels allow a full audit of their business practices in return for Rovers expulsion?
patsh
23/05/2005, 11:25 AM
Well Rovers will obviously demand a full and open enquiry into every clubs licence and the licence committee's functioning. Then we'll see the real situation I suppose.
I mean, we already know that the licencing committee ignored the 400 club when they were told the accounts were boll0x.
I mean will shels allow a full audit of their business practices in return for Rovers expulsion?
I wouldn't dispute any of the points you are making Macy, but either the eL will have to grasp the nettle and have a proper serious look at ALL clubs, and have a full look at the whole licencing issue, or else there will be a fudge again, and this whole ridiculous situation will carry on and we will NEVER sort ourselves out properly.
I wouldn't dispute any of the points you are making Macy, but either the eL will have to grasp the nettle and have a proper serious look at ALL clubs, and have a full look at the whole licencing issue, or else there will be a fudge again, and this whole ridiculous situation will carry on and we will NEVER sort ourselves out properly.
And I agree with that too - all or nothing on the licence for all clubs. I don't want a fudge, nor do I want a scapegoat.
Roverstillidie
23/05/2005, 11:47 AM
I wouldn't dispute any of the points you are making Macy, but either the eL will have to grasp the nettle and have a proper serious look at ALL clubs, and have a full look at the whole licencing issue, or else there will be a fudge again, and this whole ridiculous situation will carry on and we will NEVER sort ourselves out properly.
those are fair points, but oily is trying to have shamrock rovers fc expelled from the el mid season because 2/3 teenagers who may or may not have been rovers fans had a dust up with some linfield hoolies.
NOT because f any legitimate concerns over fai/el procedures.
he is really acting the opportunist ******** here.
Éanna
23/05/2005, 12:38 PM
he is really acting the opportunist ******** here.
which comes as a great surprise to....... oh wait, it's Oily. :rolleyes:
Slash/ED
23/05/2005, 12:46 PM
Rovers are mad to appeal this decision, they'll probably stay up regardless and running the risk of being kicked out when some people would say they got off lightly to begin with is madness.
Ollie didn't say they should be kicked out btw if you just read the quotes, I reckon the whole reason he made those comments were to make it known those clowns weren't Shels fans despite what ahd been reported in the media with their sensationalist crap yet again.
Roverstillidie
23/05/2005, 1:37 PM
Rovers are mad to appeal this decision, they'll probably stay up regardless and running the risk of being kicked out when some people would say they got off lightly to begin with is madness.
Ollie didn't say they should be kicked out btw if you just read the quotes, I reckon the whole reason he made those comments were to make it known those clowns weren't Shels fans despite what ahd been reported in the media with their sensationalist crap yet again.
well it was oily who told the press that rovers fans were the root of all evil....
but under it all, could oily have his eyes on tallaght stadium? get us fecked out on the most dubious rounds and then try and weasel into the stadium?
and to repeat the point, we told the licencing committe of the error, they ignored us, gave us the licence and then when the examiner was brought in, the error was made public.
WeAreRovers
23/05/2005, 1:38 PM
[QUOTE=Slash/ED], I reckon the whole reason he made those comments were to make it known those clowns weren't Shels fans QUOTE]
So he blames us instead. :rolleyes:
BTW We'd be mad NOT to appeal the deduction. If an appeal fails then I'd say a full judicial review will be in order. That would mean every single document and correspondence pertaining to licencing being scrutinised. I hope you're all feeling confident......
KOH
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.2 Copyright © 2025 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.