tetsujin1979
11/05/2005, 12:39 PM
There was an article in the Star at the weekend about the lack of young players making the step up to the senior Ireland team, compared to just a few years ago. One of the points made was that the average age of the team has risen slightly, as the pool of players stays the same and grow older together, and younger players don't come in. The only real 2 to make the step up under Kerr have been Andy Reid and Aiden McGeady. With this in mind, I dug out the program from the Ireland U-19 VS England U-19 game I attended at Tolka Park back in May of 2003, just to see how the respective squads have progressed.
Here's a list of the 2 squads, where they were then, and where they are now
It's not encouraging to be honest.
England
Luke Steele (Manchester United) - on a season long loan at Coventry, very highly rated
Lee Camp (Derby County) - just linked with a move to Villa in the close season
Justin Hoyte (Arsenal) - played several first team games this season, including Champion's League against Rosenberg and PSV
Pablo Mills (Derby County) - Regular in Derby side, in the play offs this season
Dean Leacock (Fulham) - on loan at Coventry earlier in the season, yet to play for first team this season
Andrew Davies (Middlesbrough) - on loan at QPR from January until April, sent off in his last game, played 3 of the last 4 games
Liam Ridgewell (Aston Villa) - almost ever present since the end of December at Villa
Peter Whittingham (Aston Villa) - played regularly at the start of the season, on loan at Burnley
Marcel McKie (Tottenham Hotspur) - still at Spurs, not played for the first team yet
Ciaran Donnelly (Blackburn Rovers) - Released to Blackpool in March. Scored for England in the match, actually qualifies for Ireland through mother (I think)
John Welsh (Liverpool) - played several times for the first team, including Champion's League away to Bayer Leverkusen
Steven Schumacher (Everton) - released to Bradford in July last year
Kieran Richardson (Manchester United) - on loan at West Brom, very highly rated
Lee Croft (Manchester City) - on loan at Oldham earlier in the season, regularly in first team squads now
Wayne Routledge (Crystal Palace) - playing regularly in the first team, probably staying in Premiership if Palace get relegated
Stuart Downing (Middlesbrough) - regular on the left wing for Boro, played for the England senior team
Eddie Johnson (Manchester United) - on a season long loan at Coventry, played once for the senior team in 2003/2004 League Cup game
Tommy Wright (Leicester City) - playing for the first team
Rep of Ireland
Tim Ditmer (Liverpool) - not sure of his situation, honestly can't find anything about him on the net, anyone?
Paul Murphy (Leicester City) - released by Leicester in May of last year
Kevin Deery (Derry City) - playing for first team at Derry
Tim Clancy (Millwall) - still at Millwall (as far as I can tell) although has yet to play for the seniors, was on loan at Weymouth in 2004
Pierre Ennis (Aston Villa) - released, now at Dublin City
Henry McStay (Leeds United) - released to Halifax Town in March
Kevin Cronin (Leeds United) - currently playing for Bohemians
John Fitzgerald (Blackburn Rovers) - on loan at Bury, told he has no future at Blackburn
Killian Brennan (Peterborough United) - released, now at Dublin City
Neil McCafferty (Charlton Athletic) - on loan at Rushden And Diamonds
Glenn Whelan (Manchester City) - sold to Sheffield Wednesday, playing in the League One play offs
Paul Keegan (Leeds United) - no games for the senior side
Stephen Bradley (Arsenal) - released by Arsenal, played for Dunfermline, released again, now at Drogheda United
Michael Timlin (Fulham) - played once for the senior team this season, League Cup away to Boston, still highly rated
With his versatility, quality and work rate, I think it's only a matter of time before he forces his way into the First Team squad.
Darren Potter (Liverpool) - playing in the first team, including 3 Champion's League games, eligible for a medal if they win it?
David Bell (Rushden and Diamonds) - release in May of last year
Richie Ryan (Sunderland) - on loan at S****horpe, played twice in the Premiership in 2002/2003. Progress hampered by serious injury last season
Danny Byrne (Manchester United) - relased to Leigh RMI in February of 2004, currently at Witton Albion
Willo Flood (Manchester City) - played and scored for the first team this season, currently in reserves, still highly rated, should make the step up to first team regular next season
Stephen Elliott (Manchester City) - sold to Sunderland, performed above all expectations, made his debut for the Ireland senior team this season
Mark Yeates (Tottenham Hotspur) - still highly rated at Spurs, Jol definately rates him and performed well on loan at Swindon and Brighton in the last 2 seasons
Mark Quigley (Millwall) - made the breakthrough to the senior side in march
John Flood (Bray Wanderers) - still at Bray
Alan O'Brien (Newcastle United) - not played for the senior team, heard he got released (or told he has no future) anyone confirm?
so out of the England squad, only 2 are not contracted to their original teams, 10 have Premiership experience, 1 has played for the England seniors, all have some form of senior league football experience
Of the Ireland squad, 3 have dropped out of football altogether (as far as I can tell, welcome to be corrected on this), 10 are playing at a lower level than the club they were at the time, 1 has already played for the senior international side. Of this team it does seem likely that Whelan, Potter, Flood and Yeates will play for the senior international side.
Switzerland were also in this group, Vonlanthen (sp?) was in that squad, he's gone on to break the record for youngest player to score at a European Championship.
I think what this does tells us is that our underage sides are generally weaker than England's, and less of them will go on to play at the highest level. But those that do make it are more likely to play for the senior side at a younger age. It is a bit discouraging, but it does show how blessed we were that Keane, Duff, McPhail, Reid, Dunne, etc all came through at the same time. Will that amount of players at the level of quality ever be seen again?
The last under 19 squad (for the tournament involving Poland, Albania, Serbia & Montenegro and ourselves) was:
Darren Randolph (Charlton Athletic)
Terry Masterson (Millwall)
Paul McShane (Manchester United)
Shane McFaul (Notts County)
Darren O’Dea (Celtic)
Richard Keogh (Stoke City)
Marcus Painter (Birmingham City)
Michael Collins (Huddersfield Town).
Joey O’Brien (Bolton Wanderers)
Darren Gibson (Manchester United)
Patrick Cregg (Arsenal)
Ian Morris (Leeds United)
Stephen Foley (Aston Villa).
Jonathan Hayes (Reading)
Diarmuid O’Carroll (Celtic)
Leon Best (Southampton)
James Hand (Huddersfield Town)
Andrew Keogh (S****horpe).
I'd argue the previous team was stronger (at the time) but I'd say more of the current squad will go on to play at the highest level
Here's a list of the 2 squads, where they were then, and where they are now
It's not encouraging to be honest.
England
Luke Steele (Manchester United) - on a season long loan at Coventry, very highly rated
Lee Camp (Derby County) - just linked with a move to Villa in the close season
Justin Hoyte (Arsenal) - played several first team games this season, including Champion's League against Rosenberg and PSV
Pablo Mills (Derby County) - Regular in Derby side, in the play offs this season
Dean Leacock (Fulham) - on loan at Coventry earlier in the season, yet to play for first team this season
Andrew Davies (Middlesbrough) - on loan at QPR from January until April, sent off in his last game, played 3 of the last 4 games
Liam Ridgewell (Aston Villa) - almost ever present since the end of December at Villa
Peter Whittingham (Aston Villa) - played regularly at the start of the season, on loan at Burnley
Marcel McKie (Tottenham Hotspur) - still at Spurs, not played for the first team yet
Ciaran Donnelly (Blackburn Rovers) - Released to Blackpool in March. Scored for England in the match, actually qualifies for Ireland through mother (I think)
John Welsh (Liverpool) - played several times for the first team, including Champion's League away to Bayer Leverkusen
Steven Schumacher (Everton) - released to Bradford in July last year
Kieran Richardson (Manchester United) - on loan at West Brom, very highly rated
Lee Croft (Manchester City) - on loan at Oldham earlier in the season, regularly in first team squads now
Wayne Routledge (Crystal Palace) - playing regularly in the first team, probably staying in Premiership if Palace get relegated
Stuart Downing (Middlesbrough) - regular on the left wing for Boro, played for the England senior team
Eddie Johnson (Manchester United) - on a season long loan at Coventry, played once for the senior team in 2003/2004 League Cup game
Tommy Wright (Leicester City) - playing for the first team
Rep of Ireland
Tim Ditmer (Liverpool) - not sure of his situation, honestly can't find anything about him on the net, anyone?
Paul Murphy (Leicester City) - released by Leicester in May of last year
Kevin Deery (Derry City) - playing for first team at Derry
Tim Clancy (Millwall) - still at Millwall (as far as I can tell) although has yet to play for the seniors, was on loan at Weymouth in 2004
Pierre Ennis (Aston Villa) - released, now at Dublin City
Henry McStay (Leeds United) - released to Halifax Town in March
Kevin Cronin (Leeds United) - currently playing for Bohemians
John Fitzgerald (Blackburn Rovers) - on loan at Bury, told he has no future at Blackburn
Killian Brennan (Peterborough United) - released, now at Dublin City
Neil McCafferty (Charlton Athletic) - on loan at Rushden And Diamonds
Glenn Whelan (Manchester City) - sold to Sheffield Wednesday, playing in the League One play offs
Paul Keegan (Leeds United) - no games for the senior side
Stephen Bradley (Arsenal) - released by Arsenal, played for Dunfermline, released again, now at Drogheda United
Michael Timlin (Fulham) - played once for the senior team this season, League Cup away to Boston, still highly rated
With his versatility, quality and work rate, I think it's only a matter of time before he forces his way into the First Team squad.
Darren Potter (Liverpool) - playing in the first team, including 3 Champion's League games, eligible for a medal if they win it?
David Bell (Rushden and Diamonds) - release in May of last year
Richie Ryan (Sunderland) - on loan at S****horpe, played twice in the Premiership in 2002/2003. Progress hampered by serious injury last season
Danny Byrne (Manchester United) - relased to Leigh RMI in February of 2004, currently at Witton Albion
Willo Flood (Manchester City) - played and scored for the first team this season, currently in reserves, still highly rated, should make the step up to first team regular next season
Stephen Elliott (Manchester City) - sold to Sunderland, performed above all expectations, made his debut for the Ireland senior team this season
Mark Yeates (Tottenham Hotspur) - still highly rated at Spurs, Jol definately rates him and performed well on loan at Swindon and Brighton in the last 2 seasons
Mark Quigley (Millwall) - made the breakthrough to the senior side in march
John Flood (Bray Wanderers) - still at Bray
Alan O'Brien (Newcastle United) - not played for the senior team, heard he got released (or told he has no future) anyone confirm?
so out of the England squad, only 2 are not contracted to their original teams, 10 have Premiership experience, 1 has played for the England seniors, all have some form of senior league football experience
Of the Ireland squad, 3 have dropped out of football altogether (as far as I can tell, welcome to be corrected on this), 10 are playing at a lower level than the club they were at the time, 1 has already played for the senior international side. Of this team it does seem likely that Whelan, Potter, Flood and Yeates will play for the senior international side.
Switzerland were also in this group, Vonlanthen (sp?) was in that squad, he's gone on to break the record for youngest player to score at a European Championship.
I think what this does tells us is that our underage sides are generally weaker than England's, and less of them will go on to play at the highest level. But those that do make it are more likely to play for the senior side at a younger age. It is a bit discouraging, but it does show how blessed we were that Keane, Duff, McPhail, Reid, Dunne, etc all came through at the same time. Will that amount of players at the level of quality ever be seen again?
The last under 19 squad (for the tournament involving Poland, Albania, Serbia & Montenegro and ourselves) was:
Darren Randolph (Charlton Athletic)
Terry Masterson (Millwall)
Paul McShane (Manchester United)
Shane McFaul (Notts County)
Darren O’Dea (Celtic)
Richard Keogh (Stoke City)
Marcus Painter (Birmingham City)
Michael Collins (Huddersfield Town).
Joey O’Brien (Bolton Wanderers)
Darren Gibson (Manchester United)
Patrick Cregg (Arsenal)
Ian Morris (Leeds United)
Stephen Foley (Aston Villa).
Jonathan Hayes (Reading)
Diarmuid O’Carroll (Celtic)
Leon Best (Southampton)
James Hand (Huddersfield Town)
Andrew Keogh (S****horpe).
I'd argue the previous team was stronger (at the time) but I'd say more of the current squad will go on to play at the highest level