An 8 Team Premier?

[Mr A]

Could be on the cards.. https://www.thesun.ie/sport/football/4555386/league-of-ireland-eight-team-premier-division-proposal/?utm_term=Autofeed&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1568702177

[NeverFeltBetter]

Split leagues mid-season, because look at how competitive its made the SPL.

[D24Saint]

Awful idea imo. The league is bad enough without the likes of this. The repetition is already high enough in the ten team format, when you allow for Fai cup, league cup, regional cups.

[El-Pietro]

Deck Chairs. Another idea that makes it seem like they are trying something when they refuse to look at the root causes of the problems in this league. We've tried 10 teams, 12 teams, 10 teams 12 teams.... why not try 8 teams, maybe thats the silver budget this league needs...

[Real ale Madrid]

Could be on the cards.. https://www.thesun.ie/sport/football/4555386/league-of-ireland-eight-team-premier-division-proposal/?utm_term=Autofeed&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1568702177

I think the headline is a bit sensationalist ( sensationalist ? the Sun? )

3 Options being considered - I like Option 3 the most. Fact is there is a large swathe of leagues that split mid season - it adds meaning to games and I'm all for it tbh.

The issue as i see it is the First Divison Plate competition - would need to be linked to relegation to the lower league if it is to be of any value. Not much point otherwise.


The first is an eight-team top flight that would split after four rounds of games.

The top four would then fight for the Euro spots and the bottom four to avoid relegation and a play-off.

A 12-team First Division would also split after two rounds with the top six vying for promotion and a play-off spot.


The second option is the same for the top flight, though the First Division would be regionalised with the top two from north and south going into knockout play-offs.


A third is the most radical, with two ten-team divisions playing two rounds of games in the first half of the season.

But there would then be a split into three divisions — a top six ‘Championship’, an eight-team promotion-relegation section of the bottom four of the Premier and top four of the First and a six-team First Division ‘Plate’.

[marinobohs]

Rubbish. 2 divisions of 10 teams by far the best option. None of this stupid mid season break up nonsense.
Focus on getting 2 sustainable 10 team divisions and leave it alone.

[pineapple stu]

Usual bull**** really.

Change the number of teams - because.

A throw-away comment that the poor FAI lose money on the league (so can hardly put in more money)

No evaluation of the point of the league or its importance in terms of producing players for the revenue-generating national team.

No analysis of the serious issues at the foot of the First Division - financial troubles, no-one interested in joining, match-rigging, etc

Football in this country is ****ed if the best we can come up with to address the decline of the last decade is to keep doing the same stuff

[Mr A]

I would not dismiss this by the way.. the option of focusing on eight teams (initially) was repeatedly raised from the top table at the LOI gathering in Abbotstown.

[pineapple stu]

You wouldn't dismiss this as something that could happen, or you wouldn't dismiss it as an idea?

[Mr A]

I mean it could happen, even if a terrible idea. The third option is the best of those presented.. but the top four splitting off would be mega boring.

[pineapple stu]

So basically we're now five months since Delaney got booted out for robbing the place blind and (a) we're still churning out brain-dead ideas like this (where even is the analysis as to whether the last reshuffle achieved what it was supposed to, and why it succeeded/failed?) and (b) Delaney's still there.

Given the clubs have to be behind this to an extent, we really do deserve the jokeshop of a league we currently have.

[marinobohs]

So basically we're now five months since Delaney got booted out for robbing the place blind and (a) we're still churning out brain-dead ideas like this (where even is the analysis as to whether the last reshuffle achieved what it was supposed to, and why it succeeded/failed?) and (b) Delaney's still there.

Given the clubs have to be behind this to an extent, we really do deserve the jokeshop of a league we currently have.

Despite his “gardening leave” I believe Delaney is still on full pay.
But the FAI “loses money” running the League ! Wonder which is delivering worse value for money ?

[sbgawa]

I could almost buy into an 8 team league if it was part of a genuine attempt led by the Government and FAI to improve the league, even though 5 games a year against the top 4 sides seems like massive repetition.
But that would involve the Govt putting serious money into developing Stadiums across the Country and funding academies for these clubs as well as other infrastructure type changes...
Equally a tiered investment into the other clubs , funding academies and coaches with limited stadia development funds but to a minimum standard.
The problem is though that it is complete pie in the sky as i suspect the changes will be limited to just that......an 8 team premier plus window dressing

[NeverFeltBetter]

As someone who watched Limerick through many years of an eight-team league, I can tell you that it gets old fast. Splitting it up isn't going to help either.

Whenever this stuff comes up, league realignment I mean, I'm always struck by how the idea of getting more teams into the League of Ireland isn't mentioned at all. Solving that problem is worth more attention than constantly changing the number of teams in each tier, or this constant suggestion of a league split. More teams and we wouldn't have to be having this conversation. But getting in more teams means awkward and difficult discussions on the fundamental problems of the league and its general viability/attractiveness, and the FAI have shown time and again they do not want to have those discussions.

[sidewayspasser]

I don't see how reducing the Premier from 10 to 8 Teams "raises standards". You raise standards by improving facilities, by enabling clubs to offer 52-week contracts, by improving the standard of refereeing, by fixing issues with fixture scheduling, etc. Some of that requires investment, some of it maybe not so much. But I think it would be much more helpful than the umpteenth change of how many teams are there in each of the two divisions.

[osarusan]

8 deckchairs instead of 10.

[pineapple stu]

31-0 the vote so far.

If we can agree on this - and 31-0 is surely unprecedented - surely be to jaysus the PCA, if they're still knocking about, can agree to it.

(I get that there's three options being mentioned, but they're all effectively the same thing)

Edit - just saw this in the article actually -


the stated objectives are to ensure the League of Ireland is among Europe’s top 25 by 2025
**** me, but they're in cloud cuckoo-land if they think that's possible. For comparison, 25th at the end of last year was Poland, with an average of almost 4.000 coefficient points per year over 5 years. 2.833 is the most we've ever gotten, and that was when the fourth team (theoretically the weakest) didn't contribute to the coefficient as they were in the InterToto.

And all of this is going to be achieved simply by imposing minimum standards on clubs and [scene missing] profit!

[NeverFeltBetter]

Poland also have an average attendance near 10K in a 16 team top tier (albeit with, sigh, a league split). Oh, and with a nine tier system. Granted, we need to consider population and geography in terms of comparison, but still, LOI isn't getting anywhere near that level in four years, or forty the way things are run currently.

I still think it would take a consistently disastrous few campaigns for the senior team for any substantial reform of Irish football to actually take place.

[Eminence Grise]

Nonsense idea. I'd type more, but those two words is all it needs.

[Snoop Drog]

I don't see how reducing the Premier from 10 to 8 Teams "raises standards". You raise standards by improving facilities, by enabling clubs to offer 52-week contracts, by improving the standard of refereeing, by fixing issues with fixture scheduling, etc. Some of that requires investment, some of it maybe not so much. But I think it would be much more helpful than the umpteenth change of how many teams are there in each of the two divisions.


This.

[dong]

I don't see how reducing the Premier from 10 to 8 Teams "raises standards". You raise standards by improving facilities, by enabling clubs to offer 52-week contracts, by improving the standard of refereeing, by fixing issues with fixture scheduling, etc. Some of that requires investment, some of it maybe not so much. But I think it would be much more helpful than the umpteenth change of how many teams are there in each of the two divisions.

Couldn't have said it better. This idea has really depressed the life out of me this morning. Around and around we go...

[seand]

As someone who watched Limerick through many years of an eight-team league, I can tell you that it gets old fast. Splitting it up isn't going to help either.

Jayzus, it's 70 years since we had an eight team league, how old are you?!

[marinobohs]

This nonsense was only for consideration. Given the universal distain shown here (and everywhere else) I would expect it to remain on a high dark shelf in Abbotstown (like so many others) while John, Fran etc sigh and say “we tried”

[pineapple stu]

Jayzus, it's 70 years since we had an eight team league, how old are you?!
Shock as Dundalk fan can't remember the First Division :)

[marinobohs]

Shock as Dundalk fan can't remember the First Division :)

They do seem to "forget" very quickly 😁

[seand]

Oh sweet baby jayzus, I didn't remember there were so many seasons with just 8 teams in the First. Back in the glory days of the noughties when it was cool to be in the First Division it was a super dynamic glamorous 10 or 12 team division. Good times.

[sbgawa]

I don't remember the glamour to well but i do remember the scenic off the tourist route spots that you get to visit.
A year or so in the first division is a positive life affirming experience that makes you appreciate the good times... :)

[marinobohs]

Oh sweet baby jayzus, I didn't remember there were so many seasons with just 8 teams in the First. Back in the glory days of the noughties when it was cool to be in the First Division it was a super dynamic glamorous 10 or 12 team division. Good times.
“When it was cool to be in the first division”

And with that any last vestige of credibility disappeared 😎

[NeverFeltBetter]

2012-2017 was the the years of the seriously uncool 8 team First Division for any fans currently on the high point of their clubs standard circular journey through the LOI. Limerick did only suffer through two of them I will admit, winning both times.

[Ezeikial]

Oh sweet baby jayzus, I didn't remember there were so many seasons with just 8 teams in the First. Back in the glory days of the noughties when it was cool to be in the First Division it was a super dynamic glamorous 10 or 12 team division. Good times.

The agony and the ecstasy - the intense joy around the 2002 cup final win in Tolka over Bohs, quickly followed by the devastation of relegation to the graveyard. The scars of 2003 season are indelibly marked on my soul when Trevor Anderson led us on a mazy journey around the country finishing 10th in a 12 team division.

[pineapple stu]

We have a vote in favour!

John Delaney must have signed up

[David BOHie]

I saw Johnny Ward saying the other day that it's going to be five months before there's another game at ED park. That's not ideal. Particularly when you want clubs coming up who are somewhat competitive. What sort of contracts can you offer when you've only games 58% of the year. 12 teams playing each other 3 times would give you 6 more games and leave it roughly in line with the Premier Division. You're not going to get clubs getting promoted and competing for Europe, Shels might be the exception next year who've a bit of money behind them. But if kids catch the LOI bug it's a hard sell for them to regain that after 5 months. You need a degree of consistency. So all in all I'm in favour of a 12-team First Division.

I think to achieve this though you need new teams. Kerry would be a fantastic addition as would one of Mayo or Monaghan. I know you need to make it desirable for clubs to join via prize money etc but that's another discussion for another day.

8 team premier is dreadful though. Imagine the repetition. There will be 5 Bohs-Rovers games this year because we drew them in the cup. It's a tad much if you ask me. Last year there was 3 between February and May as well with the way the fixtures fell. 10 teams as well drags up standards. Harps or whoever are last value the money they get from away fans travelling to their matches and as that team in tenth rotates every couple of years at least it spreads the wealth around.

[Steve Bruce]

In the mid 90s the Irish League had an 8 team league. It was the beginning of a terrible period for IL football. The early 90s their was a crowd boom then they split the league and had a top division of 8 teams, by the time this experiment finished our fanbase across the league dropped.

Supporters just got fed up of playing the same teams so often. You could literally have faced the same team 7 or 8 times a season (their where 5 trophies at the time). Since then we tried 10 teams playing each other 4 times, then 12 teams with a split, 16 teams playing twice then back to 12 teams with a split which we currently are now.

Personally I find the 12 team with a split for the last 5 games as the best solution for the Irish League. 16 teams was too many teams and not enough talent or support to go around.

But each to their own, but 8 team league is a massive mistake IMO.

[seand]

Getting slightly off topic here, but was there a reason the First Division clubs decided to restrict themselves to 3 rounds instead of 4? You're looking at just 13 or 14 home games, instead of a more manageable, budgetable 18.

[Nesta99]

They do seem to "forget" very quickly 

If or when you end up in the first division you will quickly realise the need for selective amnesia to saves ones sanity!!

[Mr A]

Getting slightly off topic here, but was there a reason the First Division clubs decided to restrict themselves to 3 rounds instead of 4? You're looking at just 13 or 14 home games, instead of a more manageable, budgetable 18.

To be blunt- because a majority of the D1 clubs see the extra series as a cost rather than bringing in extra money.

[pineapple stu]

Getting slightly off topic here, but was there a reason the First Division clubs decided to restrict themselves to 3 rounds instead of 4? You're looking at just 13 or 14 home games, instead of a more manageable, budgetable 18.
Kept the wages bill lower I think

[sadloserkid]

Noel Mooney running all over twitter last night in the weirdest, sweatiest case of damage limitation I've seen in a long time.

[Kiki Balboa]

Until the league is attractive enough to push intermediate and junior teams to want to join (and keep the ones we have), re-arranging teams is pointless. I am guessing they only want to try 8 teams because maybe they wont have enough for the first?

[NeverFeltBetter]

I'd say that's bang-on. Limerick are in trouble, and there are probably a few others that are touch and go.

[sullanefc]

Note to the mods: The poll can't be seen in the mobile version of the site, for me anyway. Unless I'm missing something obvious. I had to go to full site mode to see it.

[sullanefc]

I hate the idea of an 8 team league. Repetitive and boring. We should be increasing the number of teams and games in the prem, not reducing it.

Teams should be looking at extra games as more revenue rather than more cost.

If they are stuck for teams for the 1st division then they should be looking at ways to make it more enticing to join. That has been the biggest failure of the FAI in running this league.

Cut affiliation costs in the 1st division, regionalise it, allow B teams or u23 teams to enter it, the underage sides that don't have senior LOI sides should be given incentives to join. Kerry, kildare, carlow/kilkenny, mayo etc.

[redobit]

Apart from all the good points about how bad it is do the FAI not realise that this puts teams under more pressure financially. Clubs will push the boat out and increase the budget so they are not part of the additional teams that drop the first year it happens. Plus if a team gets promoted will find it harder to consolidate their position in the premier and probably try to increase their budget to be competitive.

[redobit]

Must be Dundalk and Shamrock fans voting its a good idea. A lot of cosying up at the AIL talks between the two clubs apparently. Probably think they can monopolise their position, who knows. One thing for sure the clubs are divided and the PLA was a great idea but the mé feiners attitude coupled with the FAI not giving a fiddlers will always hold this league back. Change for change sake.

[David BOHie]

Until the league is attractive enough to push intermediate and junior teams to want to join (and keep the ones we have), re-arranging teams is pointless. I am guessing they only want to try 8 teams because maybe they wont have enough for the first?

At the time of the Genesis report there were 22 teams in the LOI between the two divisions. The report indicated it would be optimal to expand the league in to new regions. Regions big enough to maintain a team and small enough to have a sense of belonging. It didn't specify "at county level" but I'm gathering that's what it means. Kerry and Mayo were specifically mentioned as two possible teams.

We actually have 2 teams less now, I don't think any of the report was implemented and we've probably gone backwards or stood still in many areas. Stadiums, prize money, tv money, attendance levels etc

[Ezeikial]

Must be Dundalk and Shamrock fans voting its a good idea. A lot of cosying up at the AIL talks between the two clubs apparently. Probably think they can monopolise their position, who knows. One thing for sure the clubs are divided and the PLA was a great idea but the mé feiners attitude coupled with the FAI not giving a fiddlers will always hold this league back. Change for change sake.

You do realise that currently it's 52 v 3 Bad idea : Good idea ?

Too many mé feiners!

[Stuttgart88]

This looks like a way of making sure Rovers never win the league agin, if we'd have to play Bohemians more than we already do :)

I guess this seems to assume no progress is made towards the Lucid AI League idea.

[Martinho II]

At the time of the Genesis report there were 22 teams in the LOI between the two divisions. The report indicated it would be optimal to expand the league in to new regions. Regions big enough to maintain a team and small enough to have a sense of belonging. It didn't specify "at county level" but I'm gathering that's what it means. Kerry and Mayo were specifically mentioned as two possible teams.

We actually have 2 teams less now, I don't think any of the report was implemented and we've probably gone backwards or stood still in many areas. Stadiums, prize money, tv money, attendance levels etc

had actually forgotten the loi has reduced in size altogether. wot yr was genesis?

[Mr A]

It always strikes me as weird that in discussions about the state of the LOI that the reduction is virtually never mentioned. We have lost 9% of our clubs. At one stage we were at 13.6% and had Rovers B padding it out. The central, crucial question for the LOI is how the league can stop the bleed by making existence in senior football more sustainable. This is more urgent than ever since clubs are now spending serious money on mandatory underage teams. It's now public that Harps are in difficulty, Limerick are clearly in major, possibly terminal bother and who knows what else lurks beneath the surface around the league. Playing with formats is important- but ultimately we need to have a league that isn't so hard to survive in economically.

[CraftyToePoke]

I guess this seems to assume no progress is made towards the Lucid AI League idea.

Unless this was to take down the number of Premier clubs with an eye on the top division merger required in an AI league. Planning & foresight, honing to an elite few capable of nurturing our future internationals.

(No, me neither)