UCD manager quits

[marinobohs]

Rumours that Collie O'neill has left UCD ?

[patrickccfc]

Could he be coming down here? Our application window closed just over a week ago

[RathfarnhamHoop]

Could he be coming down here? Our application window closed just over a week ago

Unlikely unless it's a very very good offer since he's relatively high up in Microsoft, think he's a team manager there too which would be well paid.

[Charlie Darwin]

Sacked, not quit according to twitter

[El-Pietro]

I feel sorry for him a little bit. He has achieved a lot with limited resources and can be proud of that, every LOI club should be thankful that UCD keeps producing players for us all. But hes not working in a real football environment, and the expectations there aren't normal.

You can't field a team of kids and have them play the way you would if you had all your first choice 11. Thats how you end up losing 10-1. You don't have to play the style of football John Caulfield prefers to realise pragmatism has value.

There has to be a point in a game where you tell your defenders just to sit back and soak up the pressure, certainly when you are already 4 or 5 goals down early on.

[disgruntled]

This decision sounds very strange unless theres something we don't know about.

[seand]

It seems pretty bizarre, looking from the outside. Any of the UCD fans have any insight or opinion?

[Mr A]

You don't have to play the style of football John Caulfield prefers to realise pragmatism has value.

While I agree with you overall.. Collie was well able to show pragmatism at certain times. For example, there was a game last year when they kicked us out of it in the first half- every attack stopped by cynical little foul after cynical little foul. And their saintly reputation meant there wasn't a card in sight! And you don't win the first division without a bit of steel.

[marinobohs]

While I agree with you overall.. Collie was well able to show pragmatism at certain times. For example, there was a game last year when they kicked us out of it in the first half- every attack stopped by cynical little foul after cynical little foul. And their saintly reputation meant there wasn't a card in sight! And you don't win the first division without a bit of steel.

By and large his teams did play an expansive attractive game of football but were no slouches at time wasting etc when the need arose. Obviously the high turnover of players (especially mid season exodus) made the job almost impossible, can only presume the decision is to get someone in that can get them above Finn Harps (doubt anything above that is realistic) as otherwise they might as well have let him finish out the season.
While it obviously didn't help I doubt the game on Friday is the sole (or even the main) reason for the decision, to be fair UCD have not been prone to knee jerk reactions.

[pineapple stu]

You can't field a team of kids and have them play the way you would if you had all your first choice 11. Thats how you end up losing 10-1. You don't have to play the style of football John Caulfield prefers to realise pragmatism has value.
Don't forget we held on for 45 minutes out in Dudelange with ten men while they threw the kitchen sink at us. Again, wouldn't have happened if we kept playing out from the back. I don't think inflexibility, or club orders, are an issue here. The Bohs game was a freak result brought about by having an entire team missing through either injuries or departures, and you can't throw that many new kids into a team in the Premier.

It's a strange one. I thought he might walk away after Friday - partly because Martin Moran did walk away after a 6-0 defeat in Dalyer back in 2001 - but the press release doesn't read like that's what happened. Hope it wasn't acrimonious whatever happened, because for four years in the First Division, he achieved a hell of a lot. Winning a round in Europe, promotion pushes every year, a title, a Cup semi-final, Manager of the Year last year. Would be a shame for it to end in a row just a few months later.

[Mr A]

There are a couple of posts on boards that suggest it wasn't about Friday:

On boards:
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=111021986&postcount=1164 "There was obviously friction between him and the board when the board went over his head and gave Kearns their own one game suspension."

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=111022912&postcount=1169 "Yeah. Kearns was banned by the FAI for the Rovers game but the additional games didn't start until after the Waterford game but the board at UCD decided to ban him for it themselves despite Collies wishes and they lost 1-2 and you have to think that their first choice keeper that's a mile ahead of their backups could have won them that game. When I found out about it I said to my mate if I were Collie I'd have walked at that and I hope that's what's happened now and not that he got sacked."

No idea whether that's credible or not.

[pineapple stu]

That was mentioned on extratime (https://www.extratime.ie/articles/23340/ucds-conor-kearns-and-bohs-captain-derek-pender-banned-for-five-and-four-games-respectively-for-post-match-fracas/) at the time -


Both players were eligible for their weekend fixtures against Waterford and Sligo Rovers as the bans don't kick in until Monday but, while Pender played, Kearns has been suspended separately by his club.

Another unusual one.

[Onapointoforder]

O’Neill and Fereguia gone to Shamrock Rovers (2nd in league) mid-season; Davis to Derry (4th); Scales on verge of going to Bristol Rovers; Kearns linked with move to Rovers/Dundalk. All played up to July 1st - UCD lost 16 out of 20. Nothing to do with playing kids. Limited squad rotation, used 14 odd players first 20 games, less than any other Prem team, seeming contempt for the other 6-9 squad members...as if Bohs are packed full of LOI veterans...give us a break

[Onapointoforder]

Can help morale when play a guy who hasn’t been involved for a month once transfer falls through

Has a UCD manager ever been given the heave-go mid-season before?

[RathfarnhamHoop]

I feel sorry for him a little bit. He has achieved a lot with limited resources and can be proud of that, every LOI club should be thankful that UCD keeps producing players for us all. But hes not working in a real football environment, and the expectations there aren't normal.

You can't field a team of kids and have them play the way you would if you had all your first choice 11. Thats how you end up losing 10-1. You don't have to play the style of football John Caulfield prefers to realise pragmatism has value.

There has to be a point in a game where you tell your defenders just to sit back and soak up the pressure, certainly when you are already 4 or 5 goals down early on.

Funnily enough I was actually talking to an ex player, not ucd just loi in general, about that recently, he was saying there's lots of merit when the team is so young in continuing to play the same way because if you suddenly go from free flowing attacking football to park the bus just because a few players leave some of the remaining players when they're that young might take it as the coach effectively saying that they're not good enough and whether they are or not if they're your best option you don't want them thinking that. Also made the point of if you're trying to build a culture of playing a certain way all the way through the club then what's the point if the players see that as soon as the going gets tough you throw the tactics out the window.

[El-Pietro]

Funnily enough I was actually talking to an ex player, not ucd just loi in general, about that recently, he was saying there's lots of merit when the team is so young in continuing to play the same way because if you suddenly go from free flowing attacking football to park the bus just because a few players leave some of the remaining players when they're that young might take it as the coach effectively saying that they're not good enough and whether they are or not if they're your best option you don't want them thinking that. Also made the point of if you're trying to build a culture of playing a certain way all the way through the club then what's the point if the players see that as soon as the going gets tough you throw the tactics out the window.
I'm not suggesting they play defensivley in every game, but when you are 5-0 down with 40 minutes left to play I would suggest that sitting back o the remaining time is a reasonable approach. I didn't see the Bohs/UCD game in full but watching the highlights I was surprised that I wasn't seeing really poor defensive errors for the most part, I saw good finishing from Bohs and good passing opening up UCD. I saw three penalties, including two given away by the keeper which implies to me he was under a lot of pressure. I didn't see tonnes of UCD bodies trying to stop Bohs at any cost which is what should have been happening.

[RathfarnhamHoop]

I'm not suggesting they play defensivley in every game, but when you are 5-0 down with 40 minutes left to play I would suggest that sitting back o the remaining time is a reasonable approach. I didn't see the Bohs/UCD game in full but watching the highlights I was surprised that I wasn't seeing really poor defensive errors for the most part, I saw good finishing from Bohs and good passing opening up UCD. I saw three penalties, including two given away by the keeper which implies to me he was under a lot of pressure. I didn't see tonnes of UCD bodies trying to stop Bohs at any cost which is what should have been happening.

You're talking about 18-20 year olds here, once the go 3 or so down the heads just go completely, all the tactics in the world can't stop that happening, it's just a case of trying to score before that happens. Momentum is huge at that age group when there's nobody with experience in the team.

[marinobohs]

That was mentioned on extratime (https://www.extratime.ie/articles/23340/ucds-conor-kearns-and-bohs-captain-derek-pender-banned-for-five-and-four-games-respectively-for-post-match-fracas/) at the time -



Another unusual one.

So UCD suspended Kearns for 'having bottles thrown at him' ;) interesting.

[pineapple stu]

Can help morale when play a guy who hasn’t been involved for a month once transfer falls through

Has a UCD manager ever been given the heave-go mid-season before?
Don't think so.

Aaron Callaghan I think didn't have his contract renewed after relegation in 2014. Martin Russell said he was off to Cork or somewhere, and then tried to claim he hadn't quit when looking for his job back about six weeks later (by which time Aaron had been appointed). Pete Mahon resigned at the end of 2008 after relegation. Doolin left with about 10 games to go to join Drogheda (heard a funny story that Drogheda contacted the club to discuss compensation, and the club posted a tenner to Drogheda and asked would that do. :) ) Martin Moran resigned three games into the 2001/02 season citing work reasons. I think Dermot Keely sold himself to Rovers in 83. And other than that, it was the Doc and Theo Dunne taking it in turns.

[joey B]

Is there any indication about who will be taking over?

[pineapple stu]

None as yet, but the last three times we needed a manager, the assistant was promoted (Martin Russell was Pete's assistant, Aaron was Martin's assistant, and Collie was Aaron's assistant).

That'd be Ian Ryan I think, but that's not a guarantee at all of course.

[Mr A]

In a move which I think will surprise many, UCD have decided to put a tamagochi in charge for the rest of the season. I hope they remember to feed him.

https://www.thesun.ie/sport/football/4461628/ucd-maciej-tarnogrodzki-take-charge-collie-oneill/

Edit: I may have misread this initially.

[Nesta99]

Harsh if UCD sacked O'Neill considering all the upheaval in the playing squad. That said Maciej seems to be a good coach from his couple of spells at Bray when they were in disarray. Wouldnt mind having Collie O'Neill on the coaching staff at Dundalk especially as part of a youth development project!

[Martinho II]

considering hes out of the loop considerably would Paul Doolin swallow his pride and go back to his first love managerial wise?

[marinobohs]

considering hes out of the loop considerably would Paul Doolin swallow his pride and go back to his first love managerial wise?

Would UCD take him back ?

[pineapple stu]

considering hes out of the loop considerably would Paul Doolin swallow his pride and go back to his first love managerial wise?
Given we paid to get rid of him the last time? :)

[Onapointoforder]

That didn’t take long. UCD have a new manager.

[RathfarnhamHoop]

Absolutely fascinating chat with Collie on loi weekly. UCD board sound like an awful bunch to work for. Collie was being diplomatic too.

[joey B]

The board seeming to think they had a right to have an opinion on the formation and style of play is real Saturday league stuff....

[PartySaint]

Who was the player he was talking about that he dropped?

[Burnsie]

Well, if we look at the four players dropped for the Waterford match, and then rule out those whose father isn't on the club board....

[D24Saint]

Seems like a bit of stroke by UCD on UCD FC. They pay 100K a year and get their name out their and the prestige of having a senior side in the doemstic league etc. It comes across as a sort of advertising or does the college offer additional support in terms of logistics, expertise , facilities ?

[sbgawa]

Well they supply all the training pitches gyms and the stadium (such as it is).
If all the players are on scholarships thats 20 places not available to sell to other applicants, foreign students etc
Maintenance and repairs to the stadium (ground-staff etc) must be a fairly serious cost.
Is the managers salary out of that 100k or is he employed by UCD?

The football club board come across in the interview as being eejits but id say the college are making a decent contribution to be fair to them.
i'd say the actual college board are'nt enjoying this spat, the football board would want to settle down

[RathfarnhamHoop]

Seems like a bit of stroke by UCD on UCD FC. They pay 100K a year and get their name out their and the prestige of having a senior side in the doemstic league etc. It comes across as a sort of advertising or does the college offer additional support in terms of logistics, expertise , facilities ?

The club get the Bowl and training pitches. Players have access to the UCD gym, at least some definitely have access to the high performance gym which is top class but I don't know if that's a deal with the football club or a scholarship thing or even if all players have access to the high performance gym and not just the standard. That's about it as far as I'm aware. It's a lot but nothing overly generous.

While I'm sure the UCD football club board mean well their treatment of collie is reminiscent of a schoolboy club and they seem a bit commercially naive.

[Onapointoforder]

The player was the no.2 keeper. O’Neill got an easy ride on the podcast. He’s treated some players like &@&@ and no board member resigned!!

[John83]

Well they supply all the training pitches gyms and the stadium (such as it is).
If all the players are on scholarships thats 20 places not available to sell to other applicants, foreign students etc
Maintenance and repairs to the stadium (ground-staff etc) must be a fairly serious cost.
Is the managers salary out of that 100k or is he employed by UCD?
The scholarships, manager, etc. are all out of the club's budget. And UCD are hardly the only club in the league who have a ground supplied to them. At least it means we can't sell it to the council, or the FAI, or two different builders at the same time...

[pineapple stu]

The player was the no.2 keeper. O’Neill got an easy ride on the podcast. He’s treated some players like &@&@ and no board member resigned!!
The likelihood is that there's two sides to the story, and the truth lies somewhere in between.

I don't know what happened exactly, and as I know the three apparently key players (Collie, the board member and the player), I'm not going to speculate, but I will say it's a real pity that 9 years has ended in what seems to be an acrimonious fashion.

I think it's also worth noting the podcast comments that a Premier Division club should have x number of non-amateurs. This is a daft suggestion which I'm surprised at Ward and, particularly, McDonnell making.

Obviously a UCD side getting hammered isn't great for the league. But UCD being so poor - and yet better than all the First Division teams kind of by definition - isn't the problem to be addressed. It's just a symptom of the real issue, which is how utterly mismanaged and undersupported the league is.

If the FAI put money into the league rather than skim off its top, then you'd find either (a) other teams would improve and we'd stay down or (b) UCD would retain players beyond graduation and have a decent squad, like in the 00s when you had Alan Mahon, Alan McNally, Tony McDonnell, Mick O'Donnell, etc, staying with us for 10 years and more.

[Shearer]

I think it's also worth noting the podcast comments that a Premier Division club should have x number of non-amateurs. This is a daft suggestion which I'm surprised at Ward and, particularly, McDonnell making.
To be fair, they were reiterating a point made by PFAI guy Stephen McGuiness not too long ago.
The PFAI are trying to implement minimum standards such as being paid for pre-season.

[total hoofball]

The player was the no.2 keeper. O’Neill got an easy ride on the podcast. He’s treated some players like &@&@ and no board member resigned!!
Everything O'Neill said on the podcast was consistent with what I was hearing about his sacking. He was under pressure to play a goalkeeper who is the son of a long-term UCD committee member who had been dropped in favour of an another inexperienced back-up keeper who also struggled and the situation blew up with the 10-1 defeat

Of course sometimes there are two sides to every story and sometimes there is only one. I'd be surprised if O'Neill had been treating players like &@&@ all of sudden into a long LOI career as coach and manager.

[pineapple stu]

To be fair, they were reiterating a point made by PFAI guy Stephen McGuiness not too long ago.
The PFAI are trying to implement minimum standards such as being paid for pre-season.
True, but that's no reason not to have a rational analysis of it.

Being paid for pre-season - or having a certain number of non-amateurs - is all very well, but where's the money going to come from? I get that the PFAI's role is to get more money for its members, but they live in a fairy world at times.

Until we grasp the nettle of the FAI leeching money from the league rather than trying to generate money for it, then you're going to have a club like UCD losing players regularly, or the goings-on in Athlone or Limerick.

[Onapointoforder]

@totalhoofball....O’ Neill had little regard for a number the squad. .And then sign a striker to drop your top (only) goal scorer!!! Gone from ‘ I have the best young players in the country’ to using Soccer Republic as ‘blamefest’ forum - - - the squad is too small (23 too small???), the players are too young blah blah blah -and this all before the July break. Could take a leaf from Keith Long - who hardly had a squad of veterans!!

[RathfarnhamHoop]

Well I guess we've found the UCD AFC board member among us

[Nesta99]

True, but that's no reason not to have a rational analysis of it.

Being paid for pre-season - or having a certain number of non-amateurs - is all very well, but where's the money going to come from? I get that the PFAI's role is to get more money for its members, but they live in a fairy world at times.

Until we grasp the nettle of the FAI leeching money from the league rather than trying to generate money for it, then you're going to have a club like UCD losing players regularly, or the goings-on in Athlone or Limerick.

What and when did things change at UCD when they did have a number older players like Ciarán Kavanagh playing. Were they student doing Masters, for example, or did UCD have a policy of having a number of 'senior' players signed up. Also wasnt there a time where LoI UCD players couldnt play for the college in varsity competions?

It's a difficult situation when the system at UCD (currently) means that a team that gets promoted one season could be very different to the one playing the following season - be that due to players graduating or the best young talent being plundered by other clubs. Another question there - if a player is 19 say at UCD and is signed by another club I presume it effects their scholarship. Is there an argument that players offered a scholarship must stick with the college until they finish their course? I know you cant really tie a player down to such an extent but it does make a bit of a mockery of the scholarhsip sustem. It's arguable that if a club doesnt have the resources to pay players a minimum wage for work done pre-season or throught the season then their participation should be looked it. I say that knowing the financial volatility in the league but consider it as if the league has moved to a stable and sustainable financial footing.

LoI by nature, certainly in the past, has had clubs achieve on merit and then could have almost a complete change of squad season to season with single yearly contracts, and be a basket case within months. Imo non 52 week contracts should not be allowed and gotten rid of over phased period. It's not particularly good for the league to have clubs that can ship 10 goals in a game though of course can happen irrespective of the system of player recruitment at a club like UCD. By extension there is debate around whether an amatuer club should be allowed compete in the highest tier of football. If a Cabinteely get promoted and are a cannon fodder amatuer side this is a diccussion that will be had no doubt. I understand though that it s better than having clubs not pay players as per contracts. At least a club like Cabo can have a long term plan to turn semi pro/pro. UCD's setup is more complex - maybe they should have a requirement to have say 5 FT players, It Is messy though. For a league that has aspirations to develop in to a professionally administered, better standard of product on and off the playing fields these tHings need sorting. It is very GAA like to have people on a Board that poke noses in to team selection for their family members and use influence to oust managers!

[pineapple stu]

What and when did things change at UCD when they did have a number older players like Ciarán Kavanagh playing. Were they student doing Masters, for example, or did UCD have a policy of having a number of 'senior' players signed up.
UCD aren't that different to other clubs. From, say, 95 to 08, we had a core of experienced players because we could afford to keep them at the club after they graduated. Like all clubs, the economic crash cut the budget, and of course it'll impact smaller clubs more - because really, budget cuts come out of wages in the end. We have a team of scholarship students now because that's all we can afford. If, let's say, there was proper prize money in the league or we had bigger crowds, we'd be a solid Premier side again.



Another question there - if a player is 19 say at UCD and is signed by another club I presume it effects their scholarship. Is there an argument that players offered a scholarship must stick with the college until they finish their course?
This is what Farrugia did. I presume he's lost his scholarship, though there was a suggestion Rovers would pay it (or an equivalent amount in cash)


t's arguable that if a club doesnt have the resources to pay players a minimum wage for work done pre-season or throught the season then their participation should be looked it. I say that knowing the financial volatility in the league but consider it as if the league has moved to a stable and sustainable financial footing.

I think football - or any sport - has to be exempt from minimum wage issues. It's effectively a hobby. Most of us play it for free. We'd happily take E50/week even if it was below minimum wage. And ultimately most of the players don't remotely earn their salary in a pure economic sense; there's a lot of fundraising going on to boost club coffers.

If the money was there and players had earned it, I'd have no problems obviously. But the PFAI's argument only tries to put a professional sheen on something whose biggest problem is that it isn't professional.

[Onapointoforder]

Is there just the one board member....or just the one that counts!!! Not guilty your honor!!

[Nesta99]

I think football - or any sport - has to be exempt from minimum wage issues. It's effectively a hobby. Most of us play it for free. We'd happily take E50/week even if it was below minimum wage. And ultimately most of the players don't remotely earn their salary in a pure economic sense; there's a lot of fundraising going on to boost club coffers.
But the PFAI's argument only tries to put a professional sheen on something whose biggest problem is that it isn't professional.

I agree in general but when you are playing football as a job, or on a career pathway then it differs from playing as a hobby. Once a player is signed on a paying contract starting first day to the season then they should be payed during the preseason preperations also.

Apologies for all these questions Stu! Does UCD value the profile that UCD AFC gives to the collge playing in a country's top level of the game or as often can be the case it is classed by some as an unnecessary financial burden - not an easy question to answer I know as opinions will vary but in general? Does the college have many on the football clubs board, are people employed/paid by the college or the clubs as a seperate entity (withinn the budget contribution) After qualifying for Europe recently and the prizemoney that went with, i presume that is additional money for the football club and the college wouldnt cut their contribution by that approximate amount or try to absorb prizemoney (hypotheticaly if UCD qualified again its large sums of money). In otherwords the football club is in most ways seperate from the college and would operate entirely seperately if sufficient income was generated and would be renting facilities etc as other clubs would?. Could another club eg Cabinteely merge with UCD. There is a reason to my questions Stu but again apologies for the digging - nothing negative, just trying to gauge the set up.

[pineapple stu]

I agree in general but when you are playing football as a job, or on a career pathway then it differs from playing as a hobby. Once a player is signed on a paying contract starting first day to the season then they should be payed during the preseason preperations also.
I don't agree that LoI is a job though. For the vast majority of players, it isn't. How many professional clubs do we have for example - Cork, Dundalk, Pat's and Rovers? So I just can't see that normal rules need apply for something which most people do for free anyway.

If players do want to get paid for pre-season, there's going to need to be a recognition that wages will drop. So if a 39-week contract is €400/week, that's €15.6k in total. If you want to get paid for 45 weeks, then your pay needs to drop to €345/week so the club still end up paying you the same total amount. Anything else is to suggest that already hard-up clubs can magic money out of somewhere. And I don't see the PFAI calling for that.


Apologies for all these questions Stu! Does UCD value the profile that UCD AFC gives to the collge playing in a country's top level of the game or as often can be the case it is classed by some as an unnecessary financial burden - not an easy question to answer I know as opinions will vary but in general? Does the college have many on the football clubs board, are people employed/paid by the college or the clubs as a seperate entity (withinn the budget contribution) After qualifying for Europe recently and the prizemoney that went with, i presume that is additional money for the football club and the college wouldnt cut their contribution by that approximate amount or try to absorb prizemoney (hypotheticaly if UCD qualified again its large sums of money). In otherwords the football club is in most ways seperate from the college and would operate entirely seperately if sufficient income was generated and would be renting facilities etc as other clubs would?. Could another club eg Cabinteely merge with UCD. There is a reason to my questions Stu but again apologies for the digging - nothing negative, just trying to gauge the set up.
Short answer is I don't know for sure obviously.

The European money was kept by the club, and the college helped out with the European run (in fact, they loaned the club the money to pay for the trips because UEFA prize money isn't paid until later)

Scholarships aren't unique to the football club. Lots of sports clubs benefit from them. The women's hockey team (some of whom were on the Ireland team that got to the World Cup Final last year) are on the outside walls of the sports centre for example. And inside, there's posters of various recipients in various sports in action. The college's High Performance Centre is a college thing, not an AFC thing, and all clubs benefit. So I think the sports side of things overall - of which the football club is the biggest - is seen as a positive.

The club operates under the Athletic Union Council, which is the governing body for all UCD sports clubs. I don't think anyone on the AUC is on the board, but the club is answerable to them. And there'd be a close enough working relationship obviously.

I don't see that Cabo could merge with UCD to be honest. Shamrock Rovers once asked about playing home games in Belfield Park and were told it wasn't an option; it was college only. Cabinteely-UCD FC would have be merging two very separate ethoses, and I don't see how it would work. I've heard it said before that something like Stillorgan Athletic FC would be of no interest.

If the college pulled funding, then there'd be a hole in the budget. That hole might be too big to fill, but in theory the club could continue to operate.

Again, none of the above would be definitive. Just my surmising.

[nigel-harps1954]

I don't agree that LoI is a job though. For the vast majority of players, it isn't. How many professional clubs do we have for example - Cork, Dundalk, Pat's and Rovers? So I just can't see that normal rules need apply for something which most people do for free anyway.


In fairness, the majority of Premier Division clubs operate on a full time basis. Derry, Waterford and Sligo are full time too. They might not all pay 52 weeks, but for 40 weeks of the year, it's the only job of those players.

[Nesta99]

Just for clarity, I wasnt suggesting that UCD should merge with another club, just wondering whether AFC were independant enough from the college for it to happen. Similarly if someone decided to pump some money in to the senior football side of things whether the college would take exception to not having a significant say in what goes on.

[Mr A]

Ironically, the advent of the national underage teams probably impacted UCD's budget- the teams don't come cheap and that's more pressure on the senior budget.

As for the PFAI comments- crazy stuff. I have heard Stephen McGuinness say before that clubs should have voting rights proportional to the number of professionals they have. They care about nothing but getting more money for their members, and don't care about the league or clubs beyond that. They seem to want more of a voice in Irish football.. they would maybe want to grow up a bit if they want to be taken seriously.