Article in Today's Star

[Mr A]

According to an article in today's Star Shamrock Rovers may be deducted 10 points by the licencing commitee. This is because they provided false information on their license application. The rules in this area don't mention points deductions as a sanction, but don't say such a penalty cannot be imposed either. Actually by the letter of the law Rovers could simply be thrown out of the league due to having their license revoked, but that is extremely unlikely.

As I see it a ten point deduction would be a very lenient penalty given the actions of Rovers board over the last few seasons.

Anyways, things should become clearer over the next few days.

[Anto McC]

If they get deducted 10 points their as good as relagated and if they get relagated their as good as fcuked,it's a shame really(no irony intended)

[six flags]

I really hope Shamrock Rovers are not deducted the ten points, as a Harps fan I have lots of respect for Rovers as a club but in particular for the fans, they are a credit to the club and when in Ballybofey they are among some of the most welcome supporters. I hope Harps can survive this year but I would rather we do that on the field of play than rely on a points deduction for Rovers.

[Éanna]

I really hope Shamrock Rovers are not deducted the ten points, as a Harps fan I have lots of respect for Rovers as a club but in particular for the fans, they are a credit to the club and when in Ballybofey they are among some of the most welcome supporters. I hope Harps can survive this year but I would rather we do that on the field of play than rely on a points deduction for Rovers.
well said. and very magnanimous

[Green Force]

That "as good as fcuked" comment induces some mirth!

What are they going to do? There is no provision in the licencing rules for any specific punishment and in Rovers case the examinership actually satisfies MORE of the licence conditions than if Rovers had continued as before.

If the FAI try anything here is what will happen:

1. The media will be given minuted details of meetings where the FAI were informed about discrepencies BEFORE they awarded the licence.

2. If that does not stop them an injunction pending a judicial review will be sought. As i said above, the liccence is a joke and Rovers would succeed in court.

3. The league might then try something in which case Rovers would seek a Judicial review of the entire licencing process to ensure it was fair and equal. Olly would certainly not like that.

4. And while we're at it, pats have a league title to their name despite having finished 3rd one year so since we finished 2nd we'll blow that one apart too.

[De Town]

If they get deducted 10 points their as good as relagated and if they get relagated their as good as fcuked,it's a shame really(no irony intended)
If rovers get deducted 10points, they will still stay up. You will see on Friday night how bad Harps are :mad:

[chippie0001]

That "as good as fcuked" comment induces some mirth!

What are they going to do? There is no provision in the licencing rules for any specific punishment and in Rovers case the examinership actually satisfies MORE of the licence conditions than if Rovers had continued as before.

If the FAI try anything here is what will happen:

1. The media will be given minuted details of meetings where the FAI were informed about discrepencies BEFORE they awarded the licence.

2. If that does not stop them an injunction pending a judicial review will be sought. As i said above, the liccence is a joke and Rovers would succeed in court.

3. The league might then try something in which case Rovers would seek a Judicial review of the entire licencing process to ensure it was fair and equal. Olly would certainly not like that.

4. And while we're at it, pats have a league title to their name despite having finished 3rd one year so since we finished 2nd we'll blow that one apart too.

Only one club are trying ot get their debts written off. Do you honestly think its fair that No punishment is given out while other clubs try to pay their bills. Just wondering as it sets avery dangerous precendent.

[Mr A]

And where would Rovers get the money to fund all these court proceedings? Aren't they in some debt already?

I don't believe that Rovers will be deducted 10 points, or receive any punishment bar a slap on the wrists.

However, that does make a joke of the entire licensing issue and would be a very poor signal to clubs that actually have their house in order. And I'd be saying that whatever the league situation. I have great respect for the majority of Rovers fans, and they deserve none of this but I'm surprised that so many people on here seem to believe that Rovers as a club should get off scot-free.

[pete]

It would seem its clear that Rovers broke the letter of the law if not exactly any individual one.

If no punishment written down don't see how the licencing committee can just decide on punishment. Their failure to notice earlier IMO essentailly gives Rovers a free pass. What would ahppen if they didn't discover until the last few weeks of the league?

I think Harps are so poor & seem to show so little fight that odds on for relegation even if Rovers deducted points. Felix Healys interviews show a beaten manager so can only imagine what the players feel.

[Mr A]

And exactly how many Harps games have you been at? We have a very young team that's suffered a lot of injuries and we will hopefully strengthen in July. I happen to believe that we can stay up regardless of what happens to Rovers.

Maybe what we should do is go out and sign 11 new players on 2k a week each in July, we can't pay them but sure what the hell!!!

[pete]

And exactly how many Harps games have you been at? We have a very young team that's suffered a lot of injuries and we will hopefully strengthen in July. I happen to believe that we can stay up regardless of what happens to Rovers.

Maybe what we should do is go out and sign 11 new players on 2k a week each in July, we can't pay them but sure what the hell!!!

I was only pointing out the facts not the excuses.

Felix Healy doesn't inspire me with confidence. His interviews are always "...sure we did what we could, unlucky, hard to compete with big boys...aaahhh"

I've doing against ye & would like ye to stay up but don't see anything in your results or admittadly the 1 game i was at.

[Patrick Dunne]

.. when Limerick got a licence last year, along with Shamrock Rovers, the charade was exposed. Clubs like Sligo, Galway, Kilkenny and Monaghan are effectively being punished for adhereing to UEFA guidelines.

[Ringo]

If they get deducted 10 points their as good as relagated and if they get relagated their as good as fcuked,it's a shame really(no irony intended)
if they were relegated , it would give them a chance to re-group. Are you suggesting that the fans would stop following them , because their in the First division.? THe league needs two divisions, it makes it interesting. If they went down, they'd bounce straight back up.

[Mr_T]

I was only pointing out the facts not the excuses.

Felix Healy doesn't inspire me with confidence. His interviews are always "...sure we did what we could, unlucky, hard to compete with big boys...aaahhh"

I've doing against ye & would like ye to stay up but don't see anything in your results or admittadly the 1 game i was at.

Felix has never said anything like that in any of his interviews. He has repeatedy said that we are more than a match for most teams we have played, that we have given away silly goals, 3 dodgy penos and 2 ogs included and that when we get over the injury crisis and get our squad fit we will beat anybody on our day.

eg. http://www.donegaldemocrat.com/story/5053

He has said this with such conviction and repetition in the face of bad results the Derry lads are comparing him to Comical Ali, the infamous Iraqi information minister.

Get you facts right.

TG

[Macy]

Only one club are trying ot get their debts written off. Do you honestly think its fair that No punishment is given out while other clubs try to pay their bills. Just wondering as it sets avery dangerous precendent.
I agree that there should be some punishment, but as ever the rule book is reactionary. Can't just make up a rule now and back date it imo - it'd just end up in court.

The FAI/Licencing committee are fooked from what I can make out - Rovers fans/ the 400 Club went to the FAI before the awarding of the licence pointing out irregularities. The licence was still awarded, so what punishment exactly can they dish out now when they knew before the issuing of the licence?

[drummerboy]

The FAI are on a sticky wicket here. If they turn a blind eye to Shamrock Rovers's situation, they will leave themselves open to severe sanctions from UEFA, with the possible loss of the agency to administer football in this country.

BTW Roddly Collins last match as Rovers manager will be this weekend.

[Bald Student]

if they were relegated , it would give them a chance to re-group. I agree. A trip to the first division wouldn't kill the club, much smaller clubs survive down there than Rovers. It might even give them a chance to cut their ridiculous wage bills.

As it happens, I don't think Rovers would necesseraraly be relegated by the ten point deduction. It's a fair penalty for submitting false documents.

[OneRedArmy]

The FAI/Licencing committee are fooked from what I can make out - Rovers fans/ the 400 Club went to the FAI before the awarding of the licence pointing out irregularities. The licence was still awarded, so what punishment exactly can they dish out now when they knew before the issuing of the licence?

I agree that it weakens the FAI's case IF they knew about this before the license was issued, but its Rovers responsibility to meet the Licensing requirements at all times.

If they submitted false accounts there should be some punishment. Its not the FAI's responsibility to check the veracity of every document, particularly a document that has already been external verified (ie the audited accounts).

We're all adults and the rules are there to be complied with. Who found the breach is immaterial.

My major concern is that Rovers are the most high profilee example of non-compliance, but I would bet my house they aren't the only one. I suspect if there is a tough punishment handed down to Rovers, a lot of other clubs will have the rosary beads out hoping their accounts, tax and legal issues won't be held up to the same level of scrutiny.

If they do get severely punished and I was a Rovers fan I'd be annoyed at being made an example and scapegoat for problems that have been knocking around domestic football administration for years.

If this is the line in the sand then everyone else has to be treated the same going forward.

[Éanna]

, they will leave themselves open to severe sanctions from UEFA, with the possible loss of the agency to administer football in this country.
So what you're saying is that Irish football could benefit enormously from this fiasco. Wouldn't that be magic

[Aberdonian Stu]

I agree with my Bald colleague. Ten points mightn't necessarily send them down and this pessimistic belief that relegation would kill Rovers doesn't hold too much weight for me.

Crowds would drop, but not as much as I hear being bandied about. More importantly the wage bill could be slashed big time. I don't want to see any club in a mess but if anything continued tolerance of administative problems will just continue this culture where crisis is the norm at Rovers and their fans will be the ones to suffer.

[drummerboy]

So what you're saying is that Irish football could benefit enormously from this fiasco. Wouldn't that be magic

It would be a huge benefit to everybody involved in football in this country if UEFA decided to appoint a new body to run the game here. The FAI have had long enough to make a go of it and have continuously failed.

[manic da hoop]

My main concern is whether or not the individuals responsible for this fiasco will get off scott free. By individuals I'm talking about the directors of our club whose shoddy, illegal and reckless manner of administering SRFC over the past couple of years has landed us in this mess. I genuinely believe that while the FAI must be seen to be taking action, if just to attempt to up hold whatever integrity is left of the Licencing Manual, they do not wish to hand out a punishment that would be detrimental to the club's very future existance. The last thing the FAI wants is to be branded as the ones responsible for killing the biggest name in Irish football! IMO a ten point deduction would not be the end of the world even if it means relegation. Provided there are no further sanctions imposed I would reluctantly accept such a punishment now given the circumstances. It might just prove to be the kick-start Roddy's lads need to get this season's campaign in order.

[pete]

Who were the auditors who signed off on the what seem to be have essentially been false accounts? Are there some angry accountants body out there? ;)

[Clones Road Cas]

Interesting no one picked up on the Roddys last match in charge comment.

I've no great desire to see Rovers put out of business, but if the situation was reversed and it was Shells we would be calling not only for sanctions on Ollie but also the club. if licensing is to mean anything then there is no way that on the basis of accounts rovers could have qualified for a license. While the harps fan is being very noble about staying up on merit, there is damn all merit in fielding a team you cant afford to pay, its happened to fecking often in this league.

One word of caution to rovers fans, dundalk reckoned their stay in the first division would be short, they also had a very solid fan base when relegated and for the first few seasons down. Division One is a grimy cess pit thats harder than you think to escape.

CRC

[joeSoap]

.. when Limerick got a licence last year, along with Shamrock Rovers, the charade was exposed. Clubs like Sligo, Galway, Kilkenny and Monaghan are effectively being punished for adhereing to UEFA guidelines.Limerick had a temporary licence last year due to the shambles the club was in at the time. Since then, it has been radically rectified, with our own ground, new team and management, and decent support. We are a prime example of how a horror story can come good in a short space of time. Perhaps 'martyrs' such as yourself should be a little more supportive and considerate of clubs going through hard times, as you never know when they're going to hit your own club.

Is there any sanctions in the licencing that state that you cannot employ a convicted multi-million pound fraudster as your chief fund-raiser?? I hope not for your sake....

[bluemovie]

One word of caution to rovers fans, dundalk reckoned their stay in the first division would be short, they also had a very solid fan base when relegated and for the first few seasons down. Division One is a grimy cess pit thats harder than you think to escape.

Well said. UCD did very well to bounce straight back up last year. When we went down, we thought each season that we'd be promoted. Look at how close Harps kept coming before last year. Division One is a horrible place that I never want to see again.

[CollegeTillIDie]

As regards the First Division here's a few cautionary tales.

Finn Harps went down in 1985 and did not get back up again till 1996.
U.C.D. went down in 1986 and did not get back up again till 1989 and on that occasion lasted 1 season before going back down again in 1990.
It took 5 more years to get up in 1995. We remained there till the end of the 2003 Summer season and were fortunate to be able to bounce right back to the top flight after spending one season in First Division.

As regards the plight of Shamrock Rovers, given that they have huge debts and an almost half finished stadium requiring completion
A few seasons as Amateurs might be required to get the finances back in order !

[Ringo]

Rovers fate in balance after talks

Thursday May 5th 2005


THE meeting of the Club Licensing Committee to discuss Shamrock Rovers' problems broke up without agreement late last night.

The committee met for a marathon four and a half hour session at Dublin's Mont Clare Hotel to consider Rovers' response to questions from the FAI relating to accounts submitted by the club as part of their club licence application in December.

Rovers' accounts for the year ending 2004 showed losses of over €1.7 million but, three weeks ago, the club revealed debts in excess of €2.3m as part of the High Court petition to go into examinership.

The board of Branvard Limited, who trade as Shamrock Rovers, along with their legal representatives attended the Licensing Committee meeting to answer the FAI's queries and after two hours left to allow the committee to consider their response.

But after a further two and half hours, the committee had failed to come to a decision and will meet again and an, as yet, undecided date, to consider the matter further.

Meanwhile, Rovers supporters also met last night to discuss a potential takeover of the club.

The supporters' trust, the 400 Club, which is bank-rolling the club during the current examinership, is looking to assume total control of the company that owns Rovers, Branvard Limited.

The 400 Club estimates that they will need to raise €500,000 to satisfy the examiner, Neil Hughes, that a supporter-owned club is the way forward.

Owen Cowzer



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