UK clubs 2019/20 preseason

[tetsujin1979]

Celtic start their preseason friendlies today against SC Pinkafeld of Austria.
Jonny Hayes, Barry Coffey and Armstrong Okoflex in the starting XI
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[Eirambler]

Okoflex with a goal in a 6-1 win.

[Razors left peg]

Is there any realistic chance at all Okoflex will play with us?

[tetsujin1979]

Okofkex's goal is on Twitter
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[third policeman]

Is there any realistic chance at all Okoflex will play with us?

How exactly does he qualify for England? Born in Ireland, does he have English parent or is it residency?

[Fixer82]

How exactly does he qualify for England? Born in Ireland, does he have English parent or is it residency?

He’s in his England gear lining up for GSTQ on his Twitter page.
That wouldn’t fill me with confidence

[elatedscum]

I don’t think he does qualify for England actually. He’s about 3 months shy in terms of residency but I guess it’s possible they’re trying to rewrite history as to when he moved across...

He did an interview at one point where he said something like that his heart was with Ireland but there was pressure from his club (Arsenal) to play for England and his agent and England’s coaches and facilities were world class and the feeling was it would help his development.

His father Reginald also downplayed it saying that England approached him before Ireland did and he was more focussed on playing club football for now and establishing himself as a senior player.

Robbie should be having a word with Duffer about him and Mikey Johnstone and getting them both on board. Okoflex is every bit as talented as Connell and Obafemi and Parrott and every other young player in Ireland right now. If it takes Stephen Kenny saying, let’s get you in amongst the 21s now and create a path to you being part of our World Cup 2022 squad, that’s what should be done. For all the great things we’re doing at youth level, you can’t continually lose the best talent to other countries - be it guys like Grealish and Rice who came through our international set up - or Okoflex at Kevin’s...

I think Neil Lennon would basically be an ally as well, wouldn’t he?

[tetsujin1979]

Liam McAlinden training with former manager Kenny Jackett at Walsall https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/walsall-fc/2019/06/26/former-wolves-striker-liam-mcalinden-training-with-walsall/

[Fixer82]

I don’t think he does qualify for England actually. He’s about 3 months shy in terms of residency but I guess it’s possible they’re trying to rewrite history as to when he moved across...


I think Neil Lennon would basically be an ally as well, wouldn’t he?

What’s the story with the twitter pic then I wonder?

Yes I would say Lennon would certainly be an ally of ROI

[Eirambler]

Re: Okoflex, if he's that good, why is he at Celtic? The Scottish youth system is the last place you'd want to be developing promising young Irish players. A lot of clubs here (including Celtic) have quit the reserve league due to the poor standard of competition so they only play meaningless friendlies outside of the first team. Also Lennon is a bit of a dinosaur in footballing terms and is not someone I'd want anywhere near our best young players.

In terms of his eligibility as far as I know he only qualifies for us and presumably Nigeria. Could qualify for Scotland in about four years time I suppose.

[tetsujin1979]

Celtic offered him a full time contract when he was still on an academy/schoolboy deal at Arsenal. Hard to argue with that when you're 16

[elatedscum]

Re: Okoflex, if he's that good, why is he at Celtic?

Brendan Rodgers basically sold it to him. Brendan said that he brought Raheem Sterling into the first team as a regular at 17, that he intrinsically trusted young players and gave himself credit for developing Raheem to the point where he was a £50m player at 21. He said he saw as much potential in Armstrong and he promised him a fast pathway straight to the first team. They also came up with a contract that reflected that valuation.

[Razors left peg]

Re: Okoflex, if he's that good, why is he at Celtic? The Scottish youth system is the last place you'd want to be developing promising young Irish players. A lot of clubs here (including Celtic) have quit the reserve league due to the poor standard of competition so they only play meaningless friendlies outside of the first team. Also Lennon is a bit of a dinosaur in footballing terms and is not someone I'd want anywhere near our best young players.

In terms of his eligibility as far as I know he only qualifies for us and presumably Nigeria. Could qualify for Scotland in about four years time I suppose.

A lot of excellent players have used Celtic as a springboard. Van Djik the best example most recently

[Eirambler]

Van Dijk didn't come through their youth system though. It's a different story if you can go straight into first team football in Scotland, which is why I could potentially see it as a suitable route for someone like Connell. It's at underage/reserve level that the problems exist, and that's where Okoflex has been since he moved here.

[Razors left peg]

Van Dijk didn't come through their youth system though. It's a different story if you can go straight into first team football in Scotland, which is why I could potentially see it as a suitable route for someone like Connell. It's at underage/reserve level that the problems exist, and that's where Okoflex has been since he moved here.
Kieran Tierney is an excellent young player who has come through the ranks.

[Eirambler]

He's very much a one off though. And, to be honest, we'll only find out if he's as good as the hype in time when he moves on. Before him though, who was the last genuine quality player to come through at Celtic having been developed fully through their youth system? Maloney or McGeady maybe. That's 15 years ago. I can't think of any player in any of the major European leagues at the moment who was a product of the Celtic youth academy.

FWIW I always thought McGeady would have been a far better player if he'd been developed somewhere other than Scotland. He got away with a lot here as a young player because he was so much more talented than everyone else, if he'd been in a more competitive environment he'd have had to work on his weaknesses and would have learnt how to deliver a final ball to match his skills game as a winger. Was found out a bit when he finally made it to England.

Anyway, I've seen the youth development setup here at fairly close quarters over the last decade or more. I just don't rate it at all, there's a reason why Scotland haven't qualified for a major finals yet this century.

[Olé Olé]

Is Okoflex not looking likely to avoid the youth and reserve teams somewhat? He will probably push for the senior side this year.

[Eirambler]

Can't see him being a regular starter this year. Maybe the odd sub appearance or Cup game. So that's a second year in the reserve setup at a minimum.

[Kingdom]

FWIW I always thought McGeady would have been a far better player if he'd been developed somewhere other than Scotland. He got away with a lot here as a young player because he was so much more talented than everyone else, if he'd been in a more competitive environment he'd have had to work on his weaknesses and would have learnt how to deliver a final ball to match his skills game as a winger. Was found out a bit when he finally made it to England.


That's just inaccurate. His career was very much on the downward spiral when he came to England, and it was plainly the wrong move for him. Some players aren't suited to English football. That Veron bloke was pretty decent, but if you judged him on his time in Eng, you'd question him.

[seanfhear]

McGeady was also not up to it at International standard either . He never learned to cross the ball consistently = bit of a disaster for a winger .

And he throughout his career gave the ball away far too much to be considered a top quality player .

How come a player supposedly with such abundant talent never improved these aspects of his play . A player that rested on his laurels or so it appears .

[Diggs246]

What’s the story with the twitter pic then I wonder?

Yes I would say Lennon would certainly be an ally of ROI
There are very lackadaisical rules for some of the under age groups. But to proper qualify he would have to live in England 5 years. He is now living in Scotland which may hamper his english residency application.
Tbh he is a bell for not picking us or Nigeria anyway

[Fixer82]

Absolutely.
I’d have no problem with him picking Nigeria but to play for England when you’ve only lived there a couple of years and that’s your only association with them. That’s mental.
If I was in a squad with a player like that I would be annoyed.

I could understand him playing underage for both if he was born in England or had an English parent.

[Eirambler]

That's just inaccurate. His career was very much on the downward spiral when he came to England, and it was plainly the wrong move for him. Some players aren't suited to English football. That Veron bloke was pretty decent, but if you judged him on his time in Eng, you'd question him.

Ah here, he was 28 when he moved to England, he wasn't exactly a geriatric. The reality was that was the first time he played in a top European league and he just wasn't good enough.

It's a frustrating one for me because I believe he had the natural talent to be a top player, but he was restricted by undertaking his football education in Scotland, didn't play at a high enough level until it was too late sadly. Fundamental issues with his game were never addressed at Celtic.

[samhaydenjr]

So I thought I'd make a list of players to be watched out for in pre-season. Almost all are young players on the fringes of their respective first team squads but I'm also oprn to more established players looking to make an impact:

Premier League:

- Aston Villa: Scott Hogan - has struggled for game time but Mick seems to have indicated that he's an option if he can play more
- Bournemouth: Mark Travers - two late games last season hopefully indicates he has a chance of being back-up keeper, at least. Perhaps he may get a shot at proving himself in the domestic cups
- Brighton: Aaron Connolly and Jayson Molumby - both have seen EFL Cup and EFL Trophy action in the last couple of seasons and impressed in the Toulon tournament so should be knocking on the door of the first team
- Burnley: Jimmy Dunne - two seasons of loans at progressively higher levels, amassing over 70 first-team appearances - let's see if he's ready to step up a level
- Crystal Palace: Kian Flanagan - U23 player of the season at the club
- Liverpool: Caoimhin Kelleher - if Mignolet goes, could become main back-up 'keeper, like Travers
- Norwich City: Adam Idah - 12 goals in 19 appearances for the U23s (only turned 18 in February) - top scorer in his division. Also Conor Masterson, if the rumours of Norwich's interest pans out
- Southampton: Michael Obafemi - can he build on last season's breakthrough. A few others in their academy but Will Smallbone seems to be the one making most progress
- Spurs: rumours abound that Troy Parrott will start to see first-team action in the upcoming season
- West Ham: Can Josh Cullen build on his success at Charlton to break through or will it be another loan spell or a transfer out? Maybe Conor Coventry, but might still be too early
- Wolves: Connor Ronan - decent loan spell in Slovakia and good Toulon tournament will hopefully boost his stock and confidence

The Championship

- Derby: Jason Knight - on the bench for the play-off final last season
- Millwall: Jonathan Afolabi - if he impressed enough on trial
- QPR: Olamide Shodipo - after falling out of favour, an unsuccessful loan and some injuries, returned to first-team action late in the season
- Reading: Josh Barrett - as with Shodipo, got back in the first team late in the season
- Stoke: Nathan Collins - Also a late season breakthrough, and now on Man Utd's radar, although another season at Stoke is probably a better option
- West Brom: Dara O'Shea - good loan spell at Exeter may put him in the frame at his home club

SPL

- Celtic: Armstrong Okoflex - if he chooses us; Luca Connell - if he ends up with them
- Hearts: Aidan Keena - scoring regularly on loan, in reserves, with a Scottish Cup goal also

Serie A

- Inter: Ryan Nolan - a couple of years in their youth set-up (making captain in their recent Cup Final) has hopefully prepared him to be a high-level defender

So that's 22 players, essentially a full squad. If even five or six break through in this pre-season, it will bode well for the short-term future. Is there anybody you lads think should be added?

[tetsujin1979]

Tyreke Wilson went on man city's preseason tour last year. A bad knee injury meant he missed a few months of football but was straight back into their PL2 side when he recovered.

Barry Coffey played for Celtic in their first preseason game earlier this week.

Lee O'Connor should be in United's squad. But if they sign Wan-Bissaka he'll find first team opportunities at right full limited

Ryan Johansson played for Bayern in their preseason last year, but they're going through a few changes at the moment so might not be in the picture this year

Ryan Cassidy at Watford had a solid scoring record at reserve level, might get to train with the first team

I know this is a real longshot, but Zak Kilsenan at Blackburn is already playing at under 18 level, he might be brought with the first team for training

Hmmm, lot of "might" there

[Olé Olé]

Thanks for those overview guys. I don't think an analysis this time last season would have been as positive. And next season will be more positive again with these lads a year older. Exciting times.

[tommy_c12000]

There are very lackadaisical rules for some of the under age groups. But to proper qualify he would have to live in England 5 years. He is now living in Scotland which may hamper his english residency application.
Tbh he is a bell for not picking us or Nigeria anyway

Not really understanding the Okoflex English eligibility. He needs to acquire a new Nationality. According to FIFA rules the only way of doing this is (considering no one reportedly in his family is English):
"He has lived continuously for at least 5 years after reaching the age of 18 on the territory of the relevant Association."

He was born in Ireland, so eligible. His parents are Nigerian, so is eligible here too. He won't be eligible for Scotland or England until the age of 23, or have these rules been changed or am I misinterpreting something? Or perhaps I am taking it too literally, and they just mean 5 years of residency, then once he reaches the age of 18 then he's eligible? The latter is more logical actually but if so rule is poorly worded

See Law 17 here:
http://websites.sportstg.com/get_file.cgi?id=1127049

[liamoo11]

Not really understanding the Okoflex English eligibility. He needs to acquire a new Nationality. According to FIFA rules the only way of doing this considering no one (reportedly in his family is English) is:
"He has lived continuously for at least 5 years after reaching the age of 18 on the territory of the relevant Association."

He was born in Ireland, so eligible. His parents are Nigerian, so is eligible here too. He won't be eligible for Scotland or England until the age of 23, or have these rules been changed or am I misinterpreting something? All the years prior to 18 shouldn't count towards eligibility if this is the rule?

See Law 17 here:
http://websites.sportstg.com/get_file.cgi?id=1127049

I dont understand this but the lads on here http://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/english-players-dual-nationality-thread.2019295/page-78 always quote the home nations agreement which is 5 years of education in the country before 18 as been what it is based on. In the euros just past there were 4 or 5 players including oko flex who that forum said did not have their eligibility sorted even though there were 2 of them in the actual final squad http://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/england-u-17-discussions-thread-3.1775615/page-279.will be interesting to see if oko flex in in their 18s squad this season surely if he is then the fa have his eligibility sorted otherwise why bother?

[tommy_c12000]

Looks like Connor Ronan might be staying in Slovakia, at least for the initial part of season, with Europa games coming up vs cracovia on July 11 & 18. Great start to the preseason for him but hopefully he will move up a level either on loan or have a shot with wolves early in the season

https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/wolverhampton-wanderers-fc/2019/06/28/bright-enobakhare-could-be-in-for-wolves-chance-in-europe/

[Eirambler]

Have a feeling it's not going to work out for Ronan at Wolves. The liklihood now is that he won't be involved at all there this season. He'll be 22 by the time next summer rolls around and will need a permanent move to a team where he can play first team football at a higher level than the Slovakian league.

I like him as a player but I don't think he's suited to the English lower leagues and he's unlikely to find another Premier league team off the back of playing in Slovakia. His next move after this will be a crucial one in terms of his whole career. Would like to think he might find a team in Belgium or the Netherlands that would suit his passing game.

[tommy_c12000]

Given how overloaded Stoke are now at center half, a loan move seems like Nathan Collins’ best option. Ideally another championship club but looking more like league 1. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.stokesentinel.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/stoke-manchester-united-nathan-collins-3037898.amp

[Charlie Darwin]

Ah here, he was 28 when he moved to England, he wasn't exactly a geriatric. The reality was that was the first time he played in a top European league and he just wasn't good enough.

It's a frustrating one for me because I believe he had the natural talent to be a top player, but he was restricted by undertaking his football education in Scotland, didn't play at a high enough level until it was too late sadly. Fundamental issues with his game were never addressed at Celtic.
Playing in Scotland didn't hurt Andy Robertson. The sad fact is that McGeady just never realised his talent.

[tommy_c12000]

Connor Ronan started for FC DAC in their 2-0 friendly defeat to Vasas today. No word of how long he’s there for, but nice to see him starting his pre season with two Europa League games...7/11 is first leg

[Eirambler]

Ronan is staying with the team in Slovakia until the end of the calendar year at least.

[tetsujin1979]

Kian Flanagan named in Crystal Palace's preseason squad: https://www.cpfc.co.uk/news/2019/july/confirmed-squad-announced-for-pre-season-tour-of-switzerland
Also included is Stephen Henderson, who signed a one year contract today.

[Closed Account]

Straight into my fantasy football team.

[liamoo11]

Kian Flanagan named in Crystal Palace's preseason squad: https://www.cpfc.co.uk/news/2019/july/confirmed-squad-announced-for-pre-season-tour-of-switzerland
Also included is Stephen Henderson, who signed a one year contract today.

If he could stay fit Henderson is a very good keeper. Great about Flanagan

[liamoo11]

O connor isn't in the man utd squad for their tour unfortunately

[tommy_c12000]

O connor isn't in the man utd squad for their tour unfortunately
Any talk of a loan deal? He needs it, like many of our youngsters; Any first team football is better than that under 23 league

[tommy_c12000]

Also, what’s next for Kieran O’Hara? I see he’s not 1 of 4 goalkeepers included for the tour...

[Eirambler]

He's 23 now so time for him to be leaving Old Trafford, he's obviously got no chance there.

Did well in League 2 last year so a permanent move to League 1 or a higher rated League 2 team will probably be next for him.

[tetsujin1979]

Loan to Burton Albion is mentioned on Twitter

[Eirambler]

Burton were top half of League 1 last season so that would be a good step up for him from last year. A good season there would leave him well placed to get a decent permanent move next summer.

[tetsujin1979]

handy list of pre season fixtures for Premier League clubs here: https://www.football365.com/news/every-premier-league-clubs-pre-season-fixture-list

[tetsujin1979]

Josh Barrett in Reading's preseason tour squad
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[tommy_c12000]

Jason Knight working hard with Derby seniors preseason trying to impress new manager, although he’s struggling with the heat in Tampa https://www.dcfc.co.uk/news/2019/07/knight-enjoying-the-hard-work-in-his-first-senior-pre-season-camp

[Olé Olé]

Irish midfielder gets chance to impress on Bournemouth's pre-season tour https://the42.ie/4720295

Gavin Kilkenny joins Harry Arter and Mark Travers on Bournemouth's pre-season tour. Not sure whether Arter is back in or not. I don't think Jefferson Lerma had the impact they had hoped would match or exceed the outlay. Gosling and Surman are not out of his league.

[tommy_c12000]

Connolly appears not to have started or come on at half time in Austria (despite wholesale changes); not sure if he came on towards the end. Molumby did not travel due to minor injury, hopefully he will get some game time in England preseason wise

[tetsujin1979]

Gavin Bazunu named in Man City's touring squad, but surprisingly no place for Tyreke Wilson
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[tommy_c12000]

Collins played the second half for stoke vs Duisburg. 1-1 draw