Kieran Lucid's All-Ireland League

[NeverFeltBetter]

Big write-up on RTE about this recently revealed scheme: https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2019/0623/1057005-lucids-ambitious-outlook-for-all-island-league/

All very pie-in-the-sky really, especially to be talking about starting in 2021!

[D24Saint]

Heard it all before sadly , if anything comes from it I’d would be shocked.

[Martinho II]

with brexit coming up, I can see the chances of having an all ireland league come to fruitation especially if the backstop is down the irish sea. For starters the money will be way more than what the clubs are getting. The only issue is that its all Belfast driven as the headquarters is in Belfast. What on earth is that about I wonder?
Only catch is there wont be as many teams qualifying for Europe but at least with the top flight and the regionalised lower leagues the games will be played twice only.
I would be up for change as it will give clubs a chance of visiting grounds up north that you normally never visit. How would they decide on the composition of the leagues though?

[NeverFeltBetter]

Presume it would be based on league position in last separate leagues.

[pineapple stu]

If it started out with 8 LoI teams, 5 IL teams and a final place decided by play-off, what would be the composition after 5 seasons? 10/2? Wonder how the IL clubs would take that.

They don't seem to care about Europe, so can hardly use that as an excuse.

Also, where does this leave the idea that a federation has to have a league to have a national team (with standing exemption for Leichtenstein based on size/history of being merged with Switzerland)?

Interesting to see Brendan Dillon involved; former head of the LoI (until stabbed in the back by Delaney I believe)

[D24Saint]

“Interesting to see Brendan Dillon involved; former head of the LoI (until stabbed in the back by Delaney I believe)”

In a large club of victims I’d imagine.

[total hoofball]

Looks like a rehash of the same nonsense proposals that creep up every few years

[EatYerGreens]

If it started out with 8 LoI teams, 5 IL teams and a final place decided by play-off, what would be the composition after 5 seasons? 10/2? Wonder how the IL clubs would take that.

They don't seem to care about Europe, so can hardly use that as an excuse.

IL clubs certainly don't act like they care about Europe. Crusaders have even hired their stadium out for a 3 day festival right across the period in which they're playing in the EL, so god knows how they're going to resolve that. Though regardless, IL fans on other forums are still making a big deal about the loss of European slots.


Also, where does this leave the idea that a federation has to have a league to have a national team (with standing exemption for Leichtenstein based on size/history of being merged with Switzerland)?

That's super easy to resolve - as shown by the likes of Wales, Canada, New Zealand etc.

[EatYerGreens]

I can understand people being cynical about these particular proposals. But to me there's a reason why an all-island league is an idea which won't go away. And it's because I think it's only a matter of time before one does eventually happen.

The timing now shouldn't be a surprise either, given that the FAI are in crisis and the LOI deal with them is up for renewal soon (2020 ?). Not to mention the fact the IL is losing one of its 4 European places, so has less to 'lose' in that sense right now.

If this proposal doesn't go anywhere, I'm pretty certain another one will come along in a few years instead. And then potentially another again after that. Until one finally sticks. The idea won't go away, because it fundamentally makes sense to have 2 weak leagues on a small island join together to make their lot better.

[sparky12345678]

I can understand people being cynical about these particular proposals. But to me there's a reason why an all-island league is an idea which won't go away. And it's because I think it's only a matter of time before one does eventually happen.

The timing now shouldn't be a surprise either, given that the FAI are in crisis and the LOI deal with them is up for renewal soon (2020 ?). Not to mention the fact the IL is losing one of its 4 European places, so has less to 'lose' in that sense right now.

If this proposal doesn't go anywhere, I'm pretty certain another one will come along in a few years instead. And then potentially another again after that. Until one finally sticks. The idea won't go away, because it fundamentally makes sense to have 2 weak leagues on a small island join together to make their lot better.

I love the idea as well. It should certainly bring a bit of excitement and rivalry and might bring more people along to games etc. I do think its interesting to compare the dissolution of yugoslavia and its league into the different countries. While Croatia has performed very well and Dinamo Zagreb did quite well last year in the Europa League there has definitely been a watering down of talent across the region since its dissolution when both Belgrade clubs and Split were considered to be very good footballing clubs. Maribor have been carrying the banner well due to good management and structures but the Slovenien league is also poor. It is a topic that also comes up every now and again in the Balkans but is a non runner for various nationalism issues but it would be interesting given that the LOI consistently has a decent top 3-5 clubs and the N Irl clubs should be able to sustain 2-3 in and around there. What about a rule where there always has to be 2-3 N Irl clubs? Would the European places necessarily have to be affected (run it similar to the way the Celtic League in Rugby used to work?)

[pineapple stu]

That's super easy to resolve - as shown by the likes of Wales, Canada, New Zealand etc.
Well Wales was made start a league by UEFA remember.

New Zealand and Canada both have national leagues as well.

[Nesta99]

Would haveing the 2 regional championships cover the base is the joint top tier didnt?

[Steve Bruce]

IL clubs certainly don't act like they care about Europe. Crusaders have even hired their stadium out for a 3 day festival right across the period in which they're playing in the EL, so god knows how they're going to resolve that. Though regardless, IL fans on other forums are still making a big deal about the loss of European slots.



That's super easy to resolve - as shown by the likes of Wales, Canada, New Zealand etc.

What crusaders have done is laughable but let's get the full picture straight here about IL.

IL clubs don't take Europe seriously yous all say, Linfield are right now in Spain doing an intensive training camp. We're following that up with friendlies against SPL clubs. Is that not taking Europe seriously?

Irish league football is a part time league albeit some clubs are transitioning to full time. We play winter football and quite often draw teams in mid season or one the top seeds.

It's not for the want of trying but linfield for example are levels below the likes of Bate, dinamo Zagreb, rosenborg, Celtic etc etc etc. All teams we have drawn in recent years.


I love the idea as well. It should certainly bring a bit of excitement and rivalry and might bring more people along to games etc. I do think its interesting to compare the dissolution of yugoslavia and its league into the different countries. While Croatia has performed very well and Dinamo Zagreb did quite well last year in the Europa League there has definitely been a watering down of talent across the region since its dissolution when both Belgrade clubs and Split were considered to be very good footballing clubs. Maribor have been carrying the banner well due to good management and structures but the Slovenien league is also poor. It is a topic that also comes up every now and again in the Balkans but is a non runner for various nationalism issues but it would be interesting given that the LOI consistently has a decent top 3-5 clubs and the N Irl clubs should be able to sustain 2-3 in and around there. What about a rule where there always has to be 2-3 N Irl clubs? Would the European places necessarily have to be affected (run it similar to the way the Celtic League in Rugby used to work?)

Football is a sport. Teams will sink or swim in the top division and I personally don't believe in having minimum allocation of teams from anywhere to balance a f league format.

I think the Irish league teams would struggle initially but over time their will be 3/4/5 established teams in the top flight.

Now that I've written all that I personally think this proposal is pie in the sky

[redobit]

I seen this quote in another article on the recent AIL creation.

“Both the Irish Cup and the FAI Cup would be retained and run by the individual associations, and the retention of the eight European slots on the island — soon to be seven — would depend on discussions with Uefa.

I think this is will play a massive part in any decision. Fair enough the team that finishes last in the new top AIL league will get as much as a European team but would a mid IL club really vote away their chance of a trophy and a European spot. What I mean by that is ... LOI teams are stronger, so how many of the mid NI teams will be able to compete! At the moment they have a shot at a European spot and a maybe a cup run, that could easily disappear if they are not in the top AIL division, which is extremely likely. Turkeys voting for xmas.

[RathfarnhamHoop]

With the whole having you're own domestic league bit there's a chance UEFAs ego might give the FAI and the IFA a pass if it means that they can spin it as a sort of football bringing together two groups that are in conflict with each other sort of thing. That's the sort of thing they'd love to be able to use for decades to come, give it a while and you'll see articles titled "how UEFA helped bring peace to the island of ireland"

[EatYerGreens]

Well Wales was made start a league by UEFA remember.

Wales wasn't made to start a league, as there was no compulsion for national teams to have one at the time. Instead the Welsh FA started the League of Wales in 1992 as a defensive step. They were worried about the continual pressure from African and Asian nations (in particular) about the privileged position of the UK/'Home Nation' teams within FIFA, and felt that the lack of a league made them the weakest link and softest target in all of that. The fact that they magiced a league up in less than a year shows how easy it is to tick the box of having one.


New Zealand and Canada both have national leagues as well.

Exactly, And under this proposal, north and south would also have 'national leagues' beneath the new structure. This is super easy to resolve in all honesty.

[EatYerGreens]

IL clubs don't take Europe seriously yous all say, Linfield are right now in Spain doing an intensive training camp. We're following that up with friendlies against SPL clubs. Is that not taking Europe seriously?

Fair point re Linfield. Though they/their current preparations aside, it is hard to argue that actions haven't suggested that IL clubs in general don't treat Europe as seriously as they should. As well as the Crusaders example from this year, most years there seem to have been issues with key players from clubs taking their holiday when European fixtures are on. Didn't the Coleraine Manager AND Assistant Manager both go off on holiday last year across the period their team was in Europe too?

Even amongst the supporters it's noticeable that there is significantly more passion for European football in the LOI than the IL. This forum has frequent threads obsessing about European football for example: the draws, the coefficients etc. The main Irish League Supporters Forum doesn't even have a dedicated thread about who the Irish League teams are playing this year. It just gets mentioned in passing on another thread. And that's despite it being the off season up the north and there being little else to talk about.

It's not for no reason that the Irish League is now ranked in the bottom 4 (?) in Europe, and is losing a qualifying space. They really shouldn't be at that level, and it's the result of collectively not treating European games as they should in my view.

[nigel-harps1954]

Largely pie in the sky stuff.

That being said, an All-Ireland League has merits if it's properly financed, and if it has the proper backing of both associations as well as UEFA.

€1,000,000 is a step up in TV money alright, but split over 44 current League clubs in IL & LOI, even though the proposal only suggests 34 clubs for some reason, that leaves less than €30k per club. Hardly worth shouting from the rooftops about. A proper TV deal to make it worthwhile would have to push upwards of €4m or €5m.

14 team Premier and two 10 team regional 'championship' leagues doesn't sound attractive to me either. Leagues splitting and going away from a traditional home/away fixture schedule just doesn't work. There's 44 teams between IL & LOI. 16 team Premier and two 14 team Championships would work home & away. How these leagues would work with promotion/relegation to the intermediate leagues would be key going forward as well allowing for potentially 30 game seasons in both instances with playoffs in Championship leagues.

April - New Years seems an interesting proposal for league. Finishing up the league in the dead of winter will cause it's own problems though and leaves you with a huge off-season again. If you're looking to keep IL clubs happy with their traditional Christmas schedule, push that to a end April - start Feb season. Gives you about 38-40 weeks to play around with.

Proper prize money is mentioned, but doesn't suggest exactly where it's going to come from. Relying on big sponsorship and big backing from FAI/IFA is a dangerous game to play for the kind of prize money they're talking about. I'd also wonder what sort of affiliation fees they'd be talking about to ensure there's money to pay out.

Going live by 2021 is an insanely ambitious prediction.

It is interesting though, and definitely worth a discussion.

For the craic however, if you went with their proposals of 14/10/10, you'd be looking at leagues lined out something like this, based on current standings and geographical position, as well as the top 17 from each league:

Premier: Dundalk, Shamrock Rovers, Bohs, Derry, St Pats, Sligo, Cork, Waterford, Linfield, Ballymena, Glenavon, Crusaders, Cliftonville, Coleraine

Ch North: Finn Harps, Glentoran, Institute, Dungannon, Larne, Carrick, Newry, Ards, Dundela, Ballinamallard

Ch South: UCD, Shelbourne, Limerick, Cabinteely, Bray, Cobh, Longford, Drogheda, Portadown, Warrenpoint

[Steve Bruce]

Fair point re Linfield. Though they/their current preparations aside, it is hard to argue that actions haven't suggested that IL clubs in general don't treat Europe as seriously as they should. As well as the Crusaders example from this year, most years there seem to have been issues with key players from clubs taking their holiday when European fixtures are on. Didn't the Coleraine Manager AND Assistant Manager both go off on holiday last year across the period their team was in Europe too?

Even amongst the supporters it's noticeable that there is significantly more passion for European football in the LOI than the IL. This forum has frequent threads obsessing about European football for example: the draws, the coefficients etc. The main Irish League Supporters Forum doesn't even have a dedicated thread about who the Irish League teams are playing this year. It just gets mentioned in passing on another thread. And that's despite it being the off season up the north and there being little else to talk about.

It's not for no reason that the Irish League is now ranked in the bottom 4 (?) in Europe, and is losing a qualifying space. They really shouldn't be at that level, and it's the result of collectively not treating European games as they should in my view.

You do make some fair points their which I agree on. It was an annoyance for me when Glenn ferguson arguably the best striker on the island would miss linfields European games to go on holiday. Thankfully no one at linfield does that any more.

The Irish league though has been under funded, lacked exposure and any exposure it did get was negative. So money hasn't existed in IL football for a long time.

It is only now that we're getting some decent coverage, crowds going up and more money floating about. I do think in 5 years time IL football will be a different beast to what it is today.

I do believe our standards are rising but we need a bit of luck in the draws so we can make a few points up and be seeded in the future

[marinobohs]

Largely pie in the sky stuff.

That being said, an All-Ireland League has merits if it's properly financed, and if it has the proper backing of both associations as well as UEFA.

€1,000,000 is a step up in TV money alright, but split over 44 current League clubs in IL & LOI, even though the proposal only suggests 34 clubs for some reason, that leaves less than €30k per club. Hardly worth shouting from the rooftops about. A proper TV deal to make it worthwhile would have to push upwards of €4m or €5m.

14 team Premier and two 10 team regional 'championship' leagues doesn't sound attractive to me either. Leagues splitting and going away from a traditional home/away fixture schedule just doesn't work. There's 44 teams between IL & LOI. 16 team Premier and two 14 team Championships would work home & away. How these leagues would work with promotion/relegation to the intermediate leagues would be key going forward as well allowing for potentially 30 game seasons in both instances with playoffs in Championship leagues.

April - New Years seems an interesting proposal for league. Finishing up the league in the dead of winter will cause it's own problems though and leaves you with a huge off-season again. If you're looking to keep IL clubs happy with their traditional Christmas schedule, push that to a end April - start Feb season. Gives you about 38-40 weeks to play around with.

Proper prize money is mentioned, but doesn't suggest exactly where it's going to come from. Relying on big sponsorship and big backing from FAI/IFA is a dangerous game to play for the kind of prize money they're talking about. I'd also wonder what sort of affiliation fees they'd be talking about to ensure there's money to pay out.

Going live by 2021 is an insanely ambitious prediction.

It is interesting though, and definitely worth a discussion.

For the craic however, if you went with their proposals of 14/10/10, you'd be looking at leagues lined out something like this, based on current standings and geographical position, as well as the top 17 from each league:

Premier: Dundalk, Shamrock Rovers, Bohs, Derry, St Pats, Sligo, Cork, Waterford, Linfield, Ballymena, Glenavon, Crusaders, Cliftonville, Coleraine

Ch North: Finn Harps, Glentoran, Institute, Dungannon, Larne, Carrick, Newry, Ards, Dundela, Ballinamallard

Ch South: UCD, Shelbourne, Limerick, Cabinteely, Bray, Cobh, Longford, Drogheda, Portadown, Warrenpoint

Actually looks a decent Premier Division :D how relegation/promotion would work would be a big factor - especially early on, as would the LOI/IL split (if any minimum number of clubs and for how long). CH South may b a bit rough on Cobh (distance wise)but almost possible to avoid. While I agree it is somewhat vague at this point it is at least good to see people actively looking at ways to improve the Leagues.

[PartySaint]

For the craic however, if you went with their proposals of 14/10/10, you'd be looking at leagues lined out something like this, based on current standings and geographical position, as well as the top 17 from each league:

Premier: Dundalk, Shamrock Rovers, Bohs, Derry, St Pats, Sligo, Cork, Waterford, Linfield, Ballymena, Glenavon, Crusaders, Cliftonville, Coleraine

Ch North: Finn Harps, Glentoran, Institute, Dungannon, Larne, Carrick, Newry, Ards, Dundela, Ballinamallard

Ch South: UCD, Shelbourne, Limerick, Cabinteely, Bray, Cobh, Longford, Drogheda, Portadown, Warrenpoint

If you were to handpick the teams that would start in the Premier Division it would basically be that as well with maybe only Glentoran replacing Ballymena or Glenavon

[EatYerGreens]

If you were to handpick the teams that would start in the Premier Division it would basically be that as well with maybe only Glentoran replacing Ballymena or Glenavon

Yeah. Potentially with Portadown involved too, as I think they've got more potential re fanbase than Glenavon do ?

That would actually be a really good Premier Division for my money, with decent clubs and crowds all round.

[joey B]

Yeah. Potentially with Portadown involved too, as I think they've got more potential re fanbase than Glenavon do ?

That would actually be a really good Premier Division for my money, with decent clubs and crowds all round.

Portadown are a mess though a shadow of what they were should be nowhere near it on current merits,Larne will be up there you'd imagine if the owner continues to invest like he is,very little history but if its investment we're looking for that'll will beat historical relevance every time.

You'd imagine the investors would be keen to have Glentoran involved,currently have big investment rumored or confirmed im not sure,could see Shelbourne there instead of Waterford aswell,if the investors could hand pick it I think they'd have Glentoran instead of Glenavon and Shelbourne instead of Waterford but obviously that's not how it will work.

[seand]

Think it was mentioned up-thread but you do have to wonder what Irish League clubs are going to bring to the party when they don't even bother keeping their home grounds free for a European tie
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/crusaders-in-stadium-booking-error-as-game-clashes-with-concert-38239242.html

[nigel-harps1954]

If you were to handpick the teams that would start in the Premier Division it would basically be that as well with maybe only Glentoran replacing Ballymena or Glenavon


Yeah. Potentially with Portadown involved too, as I think they've got more potential re fanbase than Glenavon do ?

That would actually be a really good Premier Division for my money, with decent clubs and crowds all round.

I based it off league finishing positions for IL in the season past.

You could hand pick teams very differently to what I put out there all round the board really. Note the lack of Galway, Wexford and Athlone from it.

They're presumably have to go into some other regional division two.

[Nesta99]

Being on the negative end of a 'hand picked' league it should be heavily based meritocratic selection on the field of play!! Of course its a lot easier to say that when champions 4 from five years, top of the league but with one of the poorer spectator facilities in a top tier.

[Charlie Darwin]

Being on the negative end of a 'hand picked' league it should be heavily based meritocratic selection on the field of play!! Of course its a lot easier to say that when champions 4 from five years, top of the league but with one of the poorer spectator facilities in a top tier.
Surely the only way to decide it would be on DVDs?

[bohsmug]

Surely the only way to decide it would be on DVDs?

A good Snapchat story will do it for you these days

[colonelwest]

A good Snapchat story will do it for you these days

If only we still had Dylan Connolly, we'd get in on the cross border cigarette smuggling alone!

[seand]

There doesn't seem to be a whole lot of detail in this. In some ways there is a bit more thinking/planning gone into it than some other proposals, but the financing and the huge issue of European qualification is not really addressed. There's no way UEFA are going to give Ireland / an all-Ireland league / FAI + IFA eight Euro spots. Losing four of those spots puts an immediate hole of 2m+ in the finances. Very hard to see the attraction for Irish League clubs in particular. And impossible to see how the IFA way get on board.

[oriel]

It will be 7 spots between the two leagues next year Sean, as the IL is down to 3. I would say 5 max will be awadred if this goes ahead. Winners =CL, 2nd and 3rd EL, and winners of FAI and IFA cup also EL.

On current standards, no IL club would finish in the top 4, maybe even top 5, so I think I`d agree, I cant't them going for it. Maybe the promise of 250k for the lowest placed team, thats fine for them, but the IL current top 2 in the league if they dont win the cup might be very challenged to finish in the euro spots and would potentially face the no chance of earning anything from Europe v almost guaranteed now.

[NeverFeltBetter]

The best hope for an All Ireland league is political unification frankly. It's probably more likely too.

[pineapple stu]

The best hope for an All Ireland league is political unification frankly. It's probably more likely too.
I think so. I'm not sure I share EYG's view of merging the leagues as straightforward. I don't think this is comparable to one NZ team playing in Australia (or one NI team playing in the RoI). And would UEFA have anything to say about allowing a precedent for a combined Czechoslovak league or Yugoslav league, which have been vaguely mooted before?

The issues are probably surmountable, but I can't see how it's possible in the timeframe mooted.

And when you get to people saying Glentoran over Ballymena would make for a better league, you know some people have learned pretty much nothing from the past 15 years or so.

[bohsmug]

And when you get to people saying Glentoran over Ballymena would make for a better league, you know some people have learned pretty much nothing from the past 15 years or so.

Glentoran's historical standing and potential far outweighs Ballymena. They would make it a better league. But I get your point, it should be done on the pitch. Not through a DVD presentation or a clever hashtag.

[pineapple stu]

Glentoran are a financial basketcase whereas Ballymena were challenging for the league this year.

Galway were promoted on potential in 2006 and look how well that's worked out.

[sbgawa]

If the combined premier league had two champions league spots (Why not it would not be any extra spots) and were awarded to the top finishing team from north and south that would probably take away the fear for the northern clubs....maybe a guarantee of 1 Europa spot as well.

[marinobohs]

If the combined premier league had two champions league spots (Why not it would not be any extra spots) and were awarded to the top finishing team from north and south that would probably take away the fear for the northern clubs....maybe a guarantee of 1 Europa spot as well.

Cant imagine two Champions league spots but maybe if it were for a strictly limited time (say 3 years) it might be acceptable, especially if 'sold' on the whole Brexit / Peace Process thing. it would also set a timeframe for IL clubs to get their house in order (RE Full time etc) after that its all 'safe guards' off and all clubs for themselves.

[dundalkfc10]

No way in the world would Uefa allow 2 CL positions

[Martinho II]

There doesn't seem to be a whole lot of detail in this. In some ways there is a bit more thinking/planning gone into it than some other proposals, but the financing and the huge issue of European qualification is not really addressed. There's no way UEFA are going to give Ireland / an all-Ireland league / FAI + IFA eight Euro spots. Losing four of those spots puts an immediate hole of 2m+ in the finances. Very hard to see the attraction for Irish League clubs in particular. And impossible to see how the IFA way get on board.

maybe with the base based in belfast they will be more attracted to this initiative!

[pineapple stu]

No way in the world would Uefa allow 2 CL positions

Interestingly, that's exactly what they did allow when the Dutch and Belgian women's leagues merged for three years (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012%E2%80%9313_BeNe_League). By chance, there was one Dutch and one Belgian team in the top two each year, but the spot went to the best Dutch and the best Belgian team in the league, not the top two.

I think the more established men's game would find it trickier to have such rules though.

[PartySaint]

If there was a new league were would it fall on the UEFA coefficient table? Would it take the place of the LOI or the IL or would it be considered a totally new league and start in 55th place meaning having to go through the prelim CL and EL rounds?

[sbgawa]

Interestingly, that's exactly what they did allow when the Dutch and Belgian women's leagues merged for three years (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012%E2%80%9313_BeNe_League). By chance, there was one Dutch and one Belgian team in the top two each year, but the spot went to the best Dutch and the best Belgian team in the league, not the top two.

I think the more established men's game would find it trickier to have such rules though.

I don't think UEFA will have any issue with the two leagues combined having the same amount of spots for Europe as before they joined up.
There is a precedent there (thanks Stu) and look at Brexit the EU are effectively holding up the whole brexit fiasco because of the Irish border, the peace process card and all that ,

[seand]

I don't think UEFA will have any issue with the two leagues combined having the same amount of spots for Europe as before they joined up.
There is a precedent there (thanks Stu) and look at Brexit the EU are effectively holding up the whole brexit fiasco because of the Irish border, the peace process card and all that ,

I think they would. You'd be talking about Ireland having more European qualifiers than Italy, Spain or England. And if you did you'd potentially have (something like) the 5th best team in the 32nd best league in Europe league qualifying for the Champions League, and a relegated team qualifying for the Europa League. Bear in mind that the proposal suggests only 5-6 Irish League teams in the new league, so you're looking at possibly 80% of IL top flight teams qualifying for Europe (if they can get their coefficient back above Faroes/Gib)! Perhaps at a stretch, due to the extraordinary situation, we'd get away with it for a couple of seasons but after that surely not.

[redobit]

For the craic however, if you went with their proposals of 14/10/10, you'd be looking at leagues lined out something like this, based on current standings and geographical position, as well as the top 17 from each league:

Premier: Dundalk, Shamrock Rovers, Bohs, Derry, St Pats, Sligo, Cork, Waterford, Linfield, Ballymena, Glenavon, Crusaders, Cliftonville, Coleraine

Ch North: Finn Harps, Glentoran, Institute, Dungannon, Larne, Carrick, Newry, Ards, Dundela, Ballinamallard

Ch South: UCD, Shelbourne, Limerick, Cabinteely, Bray, Cobh, Longford, Drogheda, Portadown, Warrenpoint

That's a decent prediction in fairness.
The Premier would have a nice balance of North and South but the CH is basically Harps joining the Nordie league and Warrenpoint joining the LOI.

Its hard to keep everybody happy in all this ... ... what if a few teams vote against it, are they just left behind. Lots to agree so I thinks its a bit pie in the sky tbh, especially with the timeline they are talking about!

[redobit]

Where would this AIL leave the new LOI underage structures. This pyramid has been a positive move by the FAI imo but there is no mention of it in the new AIL plan that I know of. I would like to think the clubs would be fighting to keep the boys u13 to u19 teams and the womens league.

[sbgawa]

I think they would. You'd be talking about Ireland having more European qualifiers than Italy, Spain or England. And if you did you'd potentially have (something like) the 5th best team in the 32nd best league in Europe league qualifying for the Champions League, and a relegated team qualifying for the Europa League. Bear in mind that the proposal suggests only 5-6 Irish League teams in the new league, so you're looking at possibly 80% of IL top flight teams qualifying for Europe (if they can get their coefficient back above Faroes/Gib)! Perhaps at a stretch, due to the extraordinary situation, we'd get away with it for a couple of seasons but after that surely not.

Its all probably pie in the sky but from a UEFA perspective the same number of teams will qualify from the Island of Ireland as at the moment so given the "peace process" angle its not a huge give from them, certainly not if they stick a time limit of a few years on it.

[osarusan]

Is there any evidence that IL teams have any interest in this? Linfield, for example, have always been the biggest fish in a tiny pond. What does it do for them?

[Mr A]

Nothing I have read on this has been particularly convincing.

Was speaking to a Harps director today who said they have not been in touch with FHFC. But hey, why would you reach out to a club that you are in all likelihood effectively moving to the Irish League?

And why the rush for a decision? With Brexit surely this is the last time to be rushing into things. Would it not be better to get it right than rush into it.. it feels a bit too much of a salesman trick of waving a figure around and then pressuring for the quick signature.

[RathfarnhamHoop]

Don't know if anyone has read anything about the IFA redoing their intermediate setup. Depending how you look at it it could be seen as them preparing for a joint league or could be then getting their house in order to try avoid it because the requirements look really professional and put ours to shame, do we even have any requirements? The FAI really could do with taking a look at the IFAs league set-up.

[sparky12345678]

I think they would. You'd be talking about Ireland having more European qualifiers than Italy, Spain or England. And if you did you'd potentially have (something like) the 5th best team in the 32nd best league in Europe league qualifying for the Champions League, and a relegated team qualifying for the Europa League. Bear in mind that the proposal suggests only 5-6 Irish League teams in the new league, so you're looking at possibly 80% of IL top flight teams qualifying for Europe (if they can get their coefficient back above Faroes/Gib)! Perhaps at a stretch, due to the extraordinary situation, we'd get away with it for a couple of seasons but after that surely not.

But perhaps you could seperate out the Champions League places in much the saw way other leagues split their league in the closing few weeks and have playoffs for the different places to keep things interesting and competitive. Only in this case we wouldnt "divide" the league into top and bottom half but into a championship round thing here we have a semi final/final situation for the top 6 Irish clubs and the top 6 N Ireland clubs... with byes for the higher ranked teams?

using the above projection and assigning
Dundalk (1st), Shamrock Rovers (2nd), Bohs (3rd), Derry (4th), St Pats (5th), Sligo (6th), Cork, Waterford, Linfield, Ballymena, Glenavon, Crusaders, Cliftonville, Coleraine

CL place goes to winner of Dundalk v Rovers

2 EL places:
Bohs v Sligo
Derry v Pats
plus FAI Cup
Similarly

CL place: Linfield v Ballymena
EL place: Glenavon v Crusaders


preserving a semblance of separation for the CL/EL places like theres a seperate league going on within a larger league...

I mean UEFA does make allowances now and again and could be convinced that in order to increase the quality and competitiveness on the island as well as peace/reconciliation the NIR clubs need to be attracted and losing places in the CL/EL ie money will make it tricky.