Belfast Celtic

[NeverFeltBetter]

Could very possibly be a combination of WUM and wishful thinking, but reports that Belfast Celtic, due to come back into being in next season's IFL, might be considering an application to join the LOI instead: http://belfastmediagroup.com/belfast-celtic-bosses-pondering-shock-league-of-ireland-switch/

Wouldn't be adverse: been ages since we had new blood in the league, excepting Cabinteely. But how likely is it really?

[joey B]

I think it would be great,if they did it right and got good support what would be the negative?
Away trip in Belfast would be brilliant,no harm to a team like Wexford but they had an attendance of 110 last weekend there can't be an appetite for League of Ireland football there,I think there would be in Belfast but maybe I'm completely wrong.

[marinobohs]

It would be great to see them in LOI but very, very, unlikely. IFA would have to approve a team from their jurisdiction playing in a 'foreign' league and that's extremely unlikely (Derry was a different set of circumstances). I would imagine (given the joint venture with IFA) that the FAI would not want to upset anyone by being seen to assist any such application.And finally, I imagine the PSNI wouldn't welcome a weekly/forthnightly visit by fans from down South.

[NeverFeltBetter]

But if this Belfast Celtic is technically a "new" entity, would that make it more likely? Given that they would not have a pre-existing membership of the IFL? But I suppose the northern FA must have some say in any new footballing club that suddenly appears in their territory.

[RathfarnhamHoop]

A good quality Belfast Celtic in the LOI would be a very welcome addition, and a step closer to an all Ireland league. Considering the strength of the club they're effectively taking over though would they really be much of an addition without major improvement? Their current ground is really just a pitch nothing else too so even if they could attract good crowds they'd need to improve that significantly. The only thing they really have going for them at the minute that might help them is their name and a huge potential catchment area which isn't really much. I also wouldn't like them to come in at the expense of another club so really you'd need another team to come in with them which at he moment seems unlikely.

So a nice idea but not practical without them doing a huge amount of work.

[Mr A]

Just boot UCD out, bottom team goes into playoff and and extra team comes up, problem solved.

[NeverFeltBetter]

The FAI would cobble something together to make it even numbers. A B team, a county rep side, some other junior club willing to throw an amateur senior side in.

[bohsmug]

If they could get public interest and the area genuinely associates the club wit the old Belfast Celtic then it would be great. Aren't Donegal Celtic supposed to be descendants of the old club? They don't really seem to have a strong support.

If (and obviously it's a big if) they do play LOI does that eventually lead to Cliftonville considering where they want to play? Could start a very odd conversation.

[fionnsci]

As I understand it, the current Derry City are a separate legal entity to the original entity which was wound up in 2009. Did this new entity have to jump through hoops with the IFA? Obviously it would have been madness for the IFA to have blocked the new Derry City but if they didn't have to seek cursory approval then that's precedent for a new Belfast Celtic entity not needing IFA approval.

[Nesta99]

They could probably try and blag some case under GFA terms with UEFA (and maybe the Derry precedent) but still far too contentious to be a realistic proposal. IFA would block it unless maaaybe something was agreed on not calling up former NI underage internationals for the senior RoI team. But its all clutching at straws. Its a nice idea that it could happen and not be an issue for IL football or be a security concern. Newry City toyed with the idea of applying to the LoI when they reformed but got no traction, though there was an element of them trying to parachute the new club straight in to senior football. Didnt work either way. There are plenty of Newry fans that believe that ther crowds would be higher playing the likes of Dundalk and Derry than Larne, Linfield and co. Warrenpoint is just too small a catchment to generate a proper local derby even if they have been faring better these days. Tidy ground in Newry and would also have been a good addition to LoI- a little off topic obviously :P

[marinobohs]

As I understand it, the current Derry City are a separate legal entity to the original entity which was wound up in 2009. Did this new entity have to jump through hoops with the IFA? Obviously it would have been madness for the IFA to have blocked the new Derry City but if they didn't have to seek cursory approval then that's precedent for a new Belfast Celtic entity not needing IFA approval.

I think the IFA would have to approve any club in its jurisdiction playing in another league - new or old. Derry was different in that there was major security concerns about the Brandywell at the time and once they had agreed to them going to LOI they wee never likely to retract although I believe thee was an offer to return to IL ?).
a club (new or old) in the middle of Belfast is a distinctly different issue and I doubt the IFA would risk their power base by allowing clubs opt for the LOI. it is extremely unlikely the EUFA/FIFA would recognize a move without IFA approval.

Much as I would like to see his happen, I don't believe it likely anytime soon.

[sbgawa]

I think Clifftonville and possibly other clubs would be against it as well , Belfast Celtic would have potential to be a big drain on sponsors , potential future fans and profile.
Nothing like the status quo to prevent a new idea from rocking all over our little corner of the world

[Fester]

I cant see it happening but if it did come to pass and Belfast Celtic joined the LoI it would be fantastic news.

[Yossarian]

Nothing like the status quo to prevent a new idea from rocking all over our little corner of the world

I see what you did there. And approve.

[EatYerGreens]

The context is key in all of this.

Firstly -this is NOT Belfast Celtic coming back. It's an existing club (Sport and Leisure Swifts), who aren't even the most popular intermediate team in West Belfast, seeking tio change name in an attempt to cash-in on Belfast Celtic's history. There is no reason to assume it will succeed just because they've stolen someone else's name.

Secondly - they're coincidentally only suggesting switching to the LOI now that they're aboiut to be relegated out of the 3rd tier of the Irish League and into a district league based in Ballymena. So they're not a very good team, and don't seem keen to take their oil re a relegation.

Thirdly - you have to question the wisdom of any club which takes a look at the huge administrative sh!tshow that football n the Republic is at the moment and says to themselves 'We should get ourselves some of that' ! :D

Whether or not they would be allowed to switch leagues is the big question. The IFA wouldn't agree with it (why would they). But there is established legal precedent under EU law which says that a club playing in one jurisdiction can't be prevented from plying its trade in another, so long as that other jurisdiction agrees and has accepted them in under its usual rules. Which for the LOI would be easy, as there's no pyramid and no established process for joining anyway. Except for licensing that is, which is something Sport and Leisure Swifts' rubbish facilities could well fall short on. However - they may find that the IFA tried to block any such move anyway, which would necessitate legal action to address. And with the UK allegedly due to leave the EU at some point in the next 6mths or so (or possibly not), even if the IFA thought they couldn't stop them it would be worth trying to slow the process down until the UK has left the EU. But as the UK will adopt all existing EU laws on leaving, and then begin to unpick them afterwards, that startegy probably wouldn't work either tbh.

So that aside, the biggest barrier I can see is that the LOI is run by the FAI, and they have their hands full with other existential issues at the moment. Would they really want to trigger the ire of the IFA by accepting a crappy little club in a non-border area (i.e. opening up potential problems down the line re future civil unrest) with rubbish facilities and limited revenue or appeal into their league ? In the knowledge that it would probably trigger a messy legal challenge for the club ? Why would they want that sh!t on top of everything else they have going on at the moment ?

So if I was a betting man, I'd say the odds are against this happening. Though in this crazy league, you never know.

[EatYerGreens]

I think Clifftonville and possibly other clubs would be against it as well , Belfast Celtic would have potential to be a big drain on sponsors , potential future fans and profile.
Nothing like the status quo to prevent a new idea from rocking all over our little corner of the world

That would be an argument for a closed shop in football. Which - given the extended pyramid nature of football in the north - is something they've structurally moved away from.

Though why is everyone assuming that just sticking the name 'Belfast Celtic' onto a shirt worn by 11 players will magically change the world for that club ?

[outspoken]

I can see why they'd want to move as they are basically being relegated to Sunday league level but would a move to the FD actually do anything other than financially cripple the club? Travel expenses alone would be ridiculous, you'd image they'd have to try and attract a half decent level of player to the club to compete and realistically how big would the away gates be for then in the FD? Might get a few from the big clubs when the novelty is fresh but hosting the likes of Wexford, Galway etc? League entry fees, licensing requirements, it will never happen

[marinobohs]

The context is key in all of this.

Firstly -this is NOT Belfast Celtic coming back. It's an existing club (Sport and Leisure Swifts), who aren't even the most popular intermediate team in West Belfast, seeking tio change name in an attempt to cash-in on Belfast Celtic's history. There is no reason to assume it will succeed just because they've stolen someone else's name.

Secondly - they're coincidentally only suggesting switching to the LOI now that they're aboiut to be relegated out of the 3rd tier of the Irish League and into a district league based in Ballymena. So they're not a very good team, and don't seem keen to take their oil re a relegation.

Thirdly - you have to question the wisdom of any club which takes a look at the huge administrative sh!tshow that football n the Republic is at the moment and says to themselves 'We should get ourselves some of that' ! :D

Whether or not they would be allowed to switch leagues is the big question. The IFA wouldn't agree with it (why would they). But there is established legal precedent under EU law which says that a club playing in one jurisdiction can't be prevented from plying its trade in another, so long as that other jurisdiction agrees and has accepted them in under its usual rules. Which for the LOI would be easy, as there's no pyramid and no established process for joining anyway. Except for licensing that is, which is something Sport and Leisure Swifts' rubbish facilities could well fall short on. However - they may find that the IFA tried to block any such move anyway, which would necessitate legal action to address. And with the UK allegedly due to leave the EU at some point in the next 6mths or so (or possibly not), even if the IFA thought they couldn't stop them it would be worth trying to slow the process down until the UK has left the EU. But as the UK will adopt all existing EU laws on leaving, and then begin to unpick them afterwards, that startegy probably wouldn't work either tbh.

So that aside, the biggest barrier I can see is that the LOI is run by the FAI, and they have their hands full with other existential issues at the moment. Would they really want to trigger the ire of the IFA by accepting a crappy little club in a non-border area (i.e. opening up potential problems down the line re future civil unrest) with rubbish facilities and limited revenue or appeal into their league ? In the knowledge that it would probably trigger a messy legal challenge for the club ? Why would they want that sh!t on top of everything else they have going on at the moment ?

So if I was a betting man, I'd say the odds are against this happening. Though in this crazy league, you never know.

when you put it as succinctly as that it begins to look like something the FAI WOULD pursue. ;)

[ToberonaTornado]

Complete bs,a story generated by a journo with time on hand.

I also go to a lot of Newry games.
Newry never wanted to join the LOI.That story again made-up by a lazy journalist.

[bohsmug]

A “Belfast Celtic” entity definitely has the potential to drum up interest but it would have to be something that families of players/supporters linked to the old club are part of. It would need financial backing. It would have to be something that builds anticipation and momentum pre-launch. More or less it would have to look at how MLS launches teams. A smaller scale obviously but the same principal. Probably harder to do in the IL if they have a proper pyramid structure.

I only heard of this venture yesterday but it seems as though this “Belfast Celtic” stand very little chance of feeling like any version of the old club. Which is a massive pity.

[A N Mouse]

I think the IFA would have to approve any club in its jurisdiction playing in another league - new or old. Derry was different in that there was major security concerns about the Brandywell at the time and once they had agreed to them going to LOI they wee never likely to retract although I believe thee was an offer to return to IL ?).
a club (new or old) in the middle of Belfast is a distinctly different issue and I doubt the IFA would risk their power base by allowing clubs opt for the LOI. it is extremely unlikely the EUFA/FIFA would recognize a move without IFA approval.

Much as I would like to see his happen, I don't believe it likely anytime soon.

Point of order - the RUC lifted any objections, on security grounds, to matches in the brandywell before Derry left the Irish league. It was the clubs vetoed playing there. The same clubs that rejected the reapplication every year, until the loi application.

I don't know if it's true but remember being told they eventually made a rule about clubs owning or having long term leases on their grounds, so they could refuse without being accused of sectarianism. This must have changed recently, because it was used to refuse oxford admission to their championship, when they wanted to name brandywell as their stadium, but doesn't seem to be an issue for stute.

All of which is why returning to the IL is a non starter for many Derry fans.

[marinobohs]

Point of order - the RUC lifted any objections, on security grounds, to matches in the brandywell before Derry left the Irish league. It was the clubs vetoed playing there. The same clubs that rejected the reapplication every year, until the loi application.

I don't know if it's true but remember being told they eventually made a rule about clubs owning or having long term leases on their grounds, so they could refuse without being accused of sectarianism. This must have changed recently, because it was used to refuse oxford admission to their championship, when they wanted to name brandywell as their stadium, but doesn't seem to be an issue for stute.

All of which is why returning to the IL is a non starter for many Derry fans.

OK neither time nor place for THAT debate but “security concerns” was cited by clubs as a concern in the 70s/80s.
Derry are now too well established in LOI to return to IL but I believe the IFA would have than. Lack of League place (in IL) would be only grounds EUFA night consider a Belfast Celtic request but that won’t happen.

[EatYerGreens]

OK neither time nor place for THAT debate but “security concerns” was cited by clubs as a concern in the 70s/80s.

Clubs from a unionist background raised 'security concerns', whilst the people legally in charge of security at the time said there were no genuine security concerns. I know which view I'd give more credit to


Derry are now too well established in LOI to return to IL but I believe the IFA would have than.

The Irish League would have Derry City back in a heartbeat. Derry get bigger crowds than any team in the Irish League does. Also - the Irish League is made up almost entirely of teams from unionist areas, and with supporters from a unionist identity - as can be seen clearly from the emblems displayed at games . Of the 36 teams that make up the 3 divisions in the Irish League, only 7 or 8 teams could be considered as coming from areas that are predominantly nationalist/catholic. So the Irish League is in danger of becoming ghettoised as a largely unionist pastime, despite the fact NI is on the verge of having a catholic majority population. Adding Derry City to their pyramid would certainly help address that.


Lack of League place (in IL) would be only grounds EUFA night consider a Belfast Celtic request but that won’t happen.

A clear legal precedent on this was set in 1994, which stated that under EU competition and restraint of trade laws there is nothing to stop a club from one footballing jurisdiction plying its trade (i.e. playing competitively) in another footballing jurisdiction, so long as the rules were followed on it joining that new jurisdiction. So whilst the UK remains under the influence of EU law, there is legally nothing to stop a club in the north playing in the south.

[holidaysong]

A clear legal precedent on this was set in 1994, which stated that under EU competition and restraint of trade laws there is nothing to stop a club from one footballing jurisdiction plying its trade (i.e. playing competitively) in another footballing jurisdiction, so long as the rules were followed on it joining that new jurisdiction. So whilst the UK remains under the influence of EU law, there is legally nothing to stop a club in the north playing in the south.

Who set the precedent out of interest?

[A N Mouse]

OK neither time nor place for THAT debate but “security concerns” was cited by clubs as a concern in the 70s/80s.
Derry are now too well established in LOI to return to IL but I believe the IFA would have than. Lack of League place (in IL) would be only grounds EUFA night consider a Belfast Celtic request but that won’t happen.

Security concerns may have been part of Derry leaving the IL, but to claim it as reason for their applying to join the LOI is just plain wrong.

These same clubs, during this time, were having serious incidents inside their grounds. None as serious the one decades before that lead to the original Belfast Celtic to leave. But ten years before they left Derry were in a cup final, the majority of city fans stayed away. So those that went were severally outnumber by linfield fans. All well and good? Except Derry were playing Distillery.

You can't expect to talk about a club looking to call themselves Belfast Celtic - btw should never happen for this shower at any level - and bring in Derry joining the LOI and not talk about this.

[EatYerGreens]

Who set the precedent out of interest?

The 'exiled' Welsh clubs - led by Newport County - who took the FA of Wales to the High Court for being banned from playing English pyramid games in stadiums in Wales.

[David BOHie]

Forgetting about the legitimacy issues of the claims and the fact we'd have the same sized pie but cut more ways for a minute.

If we did have Newry City, Belfast Celtic and the 6 junior clubs who have clubs at National League level - Kildare, Kerry, Mayo, Carlow-Kilkenny and Cavan-Monaghan.

The league would be in a much, much better place. Carlow and Kilkenny gave it a go previously. Maybe under a regime that didn't spend 40k on Ritz Carlton in Dubai and Man UTD tickets and designer clothes for the GF and instead actually invested prize money, sponsorship and TV money in to the league we could sustain these 8 new clubs (or at least maybe 4 of them) and all of a sudden we have 2 leagues of 12 and there's a much great "National" feel to the league. No more Dublin teams and teams in counties with huge potential ready to be tapped in to.

[Nesta99]

Just out of interest what sort of crowds do Institute get, and have their crowds changed much since moving to The Brandywell? Also is there any cross community support with the two clubs or is support very much along political/religious lines? In the distant future if ever there was an All Island league, would there be any scope for the two Derry sides merging in that enviornment especially if the smaller club was going to get cut loose and potentially flounder. Derry is big enough to have 2 clubs of course but not 2 competative clubs.

[EatYerGreens]

Just out of interest what sort of crowds do Institute get, and have their crowds changed much since moving to The Brandywell? Also is there any cross community support with the two clubs or is support very much along political/religious lines? In the distant future if ever there was an All Island league, would there be any scope for the two Derry sides merging in that enviornment especially if the smaller club was going to get cut loose and potentially flounder. Derry is big enough to have 2 clubs of course but not 2 competative clubs.

Crowds are around 500 this year, and you do see a few people in Derry gear within that. For quite a few games the away fans out-number the home.

Stute would get 'support' (i.e more curiousity) from a range of people, but the club is fundamentally very small. As for a merger - there's zero chance of that, and sure what would be the point ? To what end ? On the very rare occasion that Derry want a Stute player, they usually get them transferred (e.g. McCrudden), but the flow is almost entirely in the other direction. Stute are a bit like a Derry B side tbh. It would be like asking why don't Cobh and Cork merge.

When there's an AIL Stute will be nowhere near the top division, whereas Derry would hope to be there perennially.

[Nesta99]

I wasnt really suggesting a merger as much as trying to figure out how the general perception among the Derry public could be down the line. If the lines are blurring between the communities that support the respective clubs. Are those crowds down from after the move to the Brandywell? As you say 'stute are like Derry B so if the circumstances are right a merger will be mooted at some point. It will probably happen with a few other clubs especially at Junior level with a proper AIL pyramid system and will be suggested for some senior clubs. Not likely to happen with a fan backlash but Newry and Warrenpoint, Derry and Stute, Cobh and Cork even. I'd like to see Dundalk push toward Monaghan-Cavan as their route to senior football. Pie in the sky talk really but at least its not about Delaney or Breit!!

[brendy_éire]

I wasnt really suggesting a merger as much as trying to figure out how the general perception among the Derry public could be down the line. If the lines are blurring between the communities that support the respective clubs. Are those crowds down from after the move to the Brandywell? As you say 'stute are like Derry B so if the circumstances are right a merger will be mooted at some point.

I think Stute would be seen as more unionist-supported, but that's essentially because of the area they were located in, rather than by design or actions of their fans.
The move to the Brandywell will have changed the demographic of their support. It's now in a more populated area, within walking distance of the city centre, which really helps.
I'd hazard a guess, that half of the 500 odd people at Stute match this Saturday will have been in the Brandywell the night before for the City match. There's a decent enough crossover of support.

Whether a formal arrangement between the clubs would go down well with Stute fans, I don't know. It'd be a hard sell.

[EatYerGreens]

I think Stute would be seen as more unionist-supported, but that's essentially because of the area they were located in, rather than by design or actions of their fans.

To an extent - though don't forget that the club grew out of the Presbyterian YMCA in the city, and still uses the symbol of the Presbyterian Church as their crest.

The club is largely viewed as neutral, but does have strongly unionist roots. I would also question whether they'd have bothered with (or been accepted into) senior football had Derry City been in the Irish League at the time. They were very much seen as a way for the IFA to address the embarrassing lack of an IL presence in NI's second city.

[Nesta99]

Its where my thinking was, that if being located in the Brandywell over a protracted period of time, that the catchment area will blur the lines between Derry City and Institute support especially if as you say the club didnt exist first as a community's religious/political badge, it just happened to be located in one community. 50% of an Institute gate is already also part of the previous nights Derry City gate and that could evolve to the point where where there is such a crossover in support that any potential merger would be a hard sell to the club and IFA not the supporters in due course. It would be an interesting project if the clubs did merge but had teams represent 'Derry City' in both LoI and IL. An All-Island club with teams in two different jurisdictions. Again Im not floating the idea as much as find the concept interesting and its a name change for one arm of Derry City football when you consider the raised profile, general appeal in Derry for Saturday football etc. Under normal circumstances there are probably UEFA rules that would stump the idea but the GFA does seem to be able to trump a lot of rules and maybe even this too.

[EatYerGreens]

Its where my thinking was, that if being located in the Brandywell over a protracted period of time, that the catchment area will blur the lines between Derry City and Institute support especially if as you say the club didnt exist first as a community's religious/political badge, it just happened to be located in one community. 50% of an Institute gate is already also part of the previous nights Derry City gate and that could evolve to the point where where there is such a crossover in support that any potential merger would be a hard sell to the club and IFA not the supporters in due course. It would be an interesting project if the clubs did merge but had teams represent 'Derry City' in both LoI and IL. An All-Island club with teams in two different jurisdictions. Again Im not floating the idea as much as find the concept interesting and its a name change for one arm of Derry City football when you consider the raised profile, general appeal in Derry for Saturday football etc. Under normal circumstances there are probably UEFA rules that would stump the idea but the GFA does seem to be able to trump a lot of rules and maybe even this too.

Nesta - you need to move on from this. There is no chance of Derry and Stute merging. Neither appetite nor need for it. You may as well ask if Shamrock Rovers and Cabinteely will be merge, Cork and Cobh, or Man United and Salford City.

As for support - it is very much largely in one direction. You'll find lots of Derry fans prepared to go to watch Stute - even though the standard of football isn't great. I'll be there on Saturday, for example. But I'd be surprised if there was a similar interest amongst Stute fans in going to watch Derry City.

And most Derry fans have no interest in their own club playing in the Irish league either.

[Dalymountrower]

I would have thought that there should be a huge potential for a West Belfast Senior club , but Donegal Celtic have been chugging along with poor enough support other than cup runs. The FAI will not be picking a row with the IFA (or anyone else) anytime soon, so a cod Belfast Celtic club in the LOI is pie in the sky nonsense.
It would be great to get a Setanta Cup type competition back though , some great way trips to Coleraine, the Oval and Windsor back in the day.

[Nesta99]

Nesta - you need to move on from this. There is no chance of Derry and Stute merging. Neither appetite nor need for it. You may as well ask if Shamrock Rovers and Cabinteely will be merge, Cork and Cobh, or Man United and Salford City.

As for support - it is very much largely in one direction. You'll find lots of Derry fans prepared to go to watch Stute - even though the standard of football isn't great. I'll be there on Saturday, for example. But I'd be surprised if there was a similar interest amongst Stute fans in going to watch Derry City.

And most Derry fans have no interest in their own club playing in the Irish league either.

Did you read my post!? Yes it is off topic and by all means pull me up on that but if you are going to quote and comment at least have the manners to read what is posted but I will make it easy for you by pointing to two comments " Pie in the sky talk really but at least its not about Delaney or Breit!!" and "Again Im not floating the idea as much as find the concept interesting"

Am I not a not allowed ask questions, seek opinion, offer an opinion on what I feel would be an interesting situation, speculate on future evolution on clubs and leagues? Do you know how the landscape will be in the distant future?

[sbgawa]

In fairness the Internet is the place for streams of consciousness,
The problem with merging clubs like Cobh and Cork , or Derry and institute is the scale of one dwarfs the other so it ends up being like the smaller club closed down.

I think "franchise" type new clubs have more of a chance, the buzz around the "Belfast Celtic" name alone shows that but its hard to pull off in a country this size, where most of the large urban areas already have a team ..or several.

[EatYerGreens]

Did you read my post!? Yes it is off topic and by all means pull me up on that but if you are going to quote and comment at least have the manners to read what is posted but I will make it easy for you by pointing to two comments " Pie in the sky talk really but at least its not about Delaney or Breit!!" and "Again Im not floating the idea as much as find the concept interesting"

Am I not a not allowed ask questions, seek opinion, offer an opinion on what I feel would be an interesting situation, speculate on future evolution on clubs and leagues? Do you know how the landscape will be in the distant future?

You're perfectly allowed to ask questions my friend.

Just like I'm allowed to tell you need to move on when the question's been answered for you but you continue to ask it anyway ;)

[EatYerGreens]

In fairness the Internet is the place for streams of consciousness,
The problem with merging clubs like Cobh and Cork , or Derry and institute is the scale of one dwarfs the other so it ends up being like the smaller club closed down.

I think "franchise" type new clubs have more of a chance, the buzz around the "Belfast Celtic" name alone shows that but its hard to pull off in a country this size, where most of the large urban areas already have a team ..or several.

The problem in Ireland isn't so much that all the large urban areas already have a team, and more that there really aren't very many large urban areas in the first place.

Football is an urban sport, and the fifth biggest city in the Republic is Waterford (population below 50,000). There just realistically aren't enough people and urban areas in the Republic to have a much bigger viable LOI. That's why an all-island league of some sort is the only way forward IMO. Drawing in new teams (in LOI terms) from new areas with the sort of urban populations that make football potentially viable.

[Martinho II]

with institute in the brandywell is this a permanent move altogether? their old ground was that far on the other side of the river foyle?

[joey B]

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-foyle-west-47744605

It's detailed there,all sounds pretty disastrous for Institute.

[SeanDMRooney]

Here they mention the possibility as well of the Ulster Senior League which would at least give it some teams outside of ****ing Donegal and North East Donegal at that

https://www.belfastlive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/belfast-celtic-league-ireland-move-16121869 (https://www.belfastlive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/belfast-celtic-league-ireland-move-16121869)

[Nesta99]

Will they be able to resuurect the Belfast Celtic brand and then in a couple of years buy the Old Co. role of honour?

[EatYerGreens]

with institute in the brandywell is this a permanent move altogether? their old ground was that far on the other side of the river foyle?

Stute's old ground wasn't technically in Derry, but in the village of Drumahoe - which is right on the city's south-eastern edge, on the road to Belfast. It's fecked, and there's no way they'll be moving back there (The ground that is. Though probably Drumahoe too...)

They're trying to get a ground in a much more central area in the city's Waterside. The site they're keen on is less than 2 miles from the Brandywell, but crucially for them is in the protestant 'half' of the city (the Waterside). Although the demographics continue to shift, so I suspect by the time they do get a new stadium there the Waterside will be majority catholic (it's probably almost there already. The 2021 census will reveal all).

I'll be surprised if they're not still at Brandywell in 5yrs time. They need Stormont funding to help sort a new stadium, and there is no NI Executive in place to allocate that funding - and no sign of it returning. There certainly won't be an Executive until after Brexit is sorted anyway, and that continues to drag on. Even when they do get funding sorted, they'll need time for planning, ground works, building etc.

And even when they do get a new ground, Stute will still struggle to attract many fans. So they'll therefore remain very much the little brother club in the city.

[Nesta99]

Merge the clubs! You know it makes sense EYG!! :P

[A N Mouse]

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-foyle-west-47744605

It's detailed there,all sounds pretty disastrous for Institute.

Thanks hadn't seen this.

This is only twenty odd years too late. Stute should have a nice little stadium in this area already. They pressed on against all common sense and advice to the contrary building the riverside.

There doesn't seem to be any info on this consultation online. Anyone?

The interesting part of the statement is its specifically unspecific - it doesn't mention by name where they played out last season, which is were they should have been these last few decades. Now ordinarily I'd say they're twenty years too late to build here now, as they could never get planning permission there, for something like they had in drumahoe, now. But the vagueness lends itself to speculation that they're eyeing up a site adjacent that may be available.

[redarmyfaction]

They're trying to get a ground in a much more central area in the city's Waterside. The site they're keen on is less than 2 miles from the Brandywell, but crucially for them is in the protestant 'half' of the city (the Waterside). Although the demographics continue to shift, so I suspect by the time they do get a new stadium there the Waterside will be majority catholic (it's probably almost there already. The 2021 census will reveal all).
.

Catholic majority on Waterside already.
https://www.londonderrysentinel.co.uk/news/catholics-outnumber-protestants-on-both-banks-of-the-foyle-1-4737478

[EatYerGreens]

Catholic majority on Waterside already.
https://www.londonderrysentinel.co.uk/news/catholics-outnumber-protestants-on-both-banks-of-the-foyle-1-4737478

Good find - thanks for that.

There's been a middle-class Catholic influx into the Waterside area of Derry since the last census. Into the former Ebrington ward in particular, which is where Stute hope to move. So there'll definitely be a big chance in the demographics of the area come census night in 2021.

They really do feel like a club which is going to struggle to find a decent fan base and relevance wherever they go. Which is a shame really, as they're a nice wee club. They'll just always be over-shadowed by Derry City. Particularly as the city's population has been used to looking south for its football for over 3 decades now.

[brendy_éire]

Here they mention the possibility as well of the Ulster Senior League which would at least give it some teams outside of ****ing Donegal and North East Donegal at that

Application confirmed.

It's an interesting approach, not drawing as much attention as an LoI application. Presume they still IFA approval for it, and can't see them getting it.

http://www.donegalsporthub.com/belfast-celtic-make-application-to-join-ulster-senior-league/

[EatYerGreens]

Application confirmed.

It's an interesting approach, not drawing as much attention as an LoI application. Presume they still IFA approval for it, and can't see them getting it.

http://www.donegalsporthub.com/belfast-celtic-make-application-to-join-ulster-senior-league/

I wonder have they realised :

a) That there is no pyramid in the Republic, so no clear route from USL to LOI, and

b) Just how expensive their travel is going to be ?

I wonder what the other USL clubs will think about having their travel costs increased significantly as well ?