Future of Irish Football

[tetsujin1979]

Provide some evidence or gtfo.

Kennedy was the one who wrote the article mentioning the protest, that was unplanned until that point: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/fans-to-stage-aviva-protest-over-delaney-rpghbwxg9

In protest, some fans are planning to throw tennis balls on to the Aviva Stadium pitch to disrupt the game against Georgia, with others taking to social media to call for a boycott of the fixture.
There was no mention of it on social media, or posts about it on any forum, before that article

[Kingdom]

Seems YBIG are starting to realise that if you publically post this stuff, you'll come undone.

[pineapple stu]

24 hours to provide evidence that LOI clubs haven't been paid their winnings from the 2018 season, otherwise I'm deleting the posts.
For what it's worth, I know when I was doing the books at a LoI club a couple of years back (not UCD), prize money was just offset against league entry, fines, and referees' fees.

So the FAI didn't pay prize money, UEFA solidarity, etc, and the club didn't pay league entry, referees, etc.

The two roughly balanced out, and every now and again a balancing payment was made.

So I could believe prize money hasn't been paid - but it doesn't necessarily mean what it sounds like

[paul_oshea]

its like end of year accounts you do them towards the end of the 2nd year :)

[wexfordned]

Kennedy was the one who wrote the article mentioning the protest, that was unplanned until that point: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/fans-to-stage-aviva-protest-over-delaney-rpghbwxg9

There was no mention of it on social media, or posts about it on any forum, before that article

How do you know it wasn't pre planned?

With apps such as whats app you can spread information all around the country in a short timeframe without posting it all over the internet/social media

[geysir]

I haven't seen it repeated anywhere. Please provide links.
Have you looked?
search term - Brian Kerr Delaney

Virgin media sport video feed
https://twitter.com/VMSportIE/status/1109902083040382977/video/1

Off the Ball
https://www.facebook.com/offtheball/videos/is-it-time-for-the-league-of-ireland-to-split-from-the-fai/281825732473008/

repeated on
https://www.balls.ie/football/watch-brian-kerr-john-delaney-407845
https://www.the42.ie/brian-kerr-john-delaney-fai-stepped-down-chief-executive-reaction-4557959-Mar2019/

Its hard to credit that you think that discussion of the affairs of the FAI is out of the question on a football discussion board.
A total absence of rationality.

[gastric]

Be fair to Tets. Dahamsta reported a few years ago how he was being sued by someone on here. For a small business owner this must be a nightmare, so I get why Tets has asked for sources and is reluctant to let this debate take place. A case of 'Don't shoot the messenger,' and with JD's history of legal intervention, not without precedence.

[NeverFeltBetter]

And let's not forget that discussion was banned on two different clubs on this forum due to legal communications over topics being discussed, one of whom is still banned.

[tetsujin1979]

Have you looked?
search term - Brian Kerr Delaney

Virgin media sport video feed
https://twitter.com/VMSportIE/status/1109902083040382977/video/1

Off the Ball
https://www.facebook.com/offtheball/videos/is-it-time-for-the-league-of-ireland-to-split-from-the-fai/281825732473008/

repeated on
https://www.balls.ie/football/watch-brian-kerr-john-delaney-407845
https://www.the42.ie/brian-kerr-john-delaney-fai-stepped-down-chief-executive-reaction-4557959-Mar2019/

Its hard to credit that you think that discussion of the affairs of the FAI is out of the question on a football discussion board.
A total absence of rationality.

Maybe I should have been clearer, I haven't seen Kerr's statement about LOI clubs not receiving their prize money repeated anywhere.
The only one of those links that mentions it is on the Virgin Media Sports twitter account.
It's interesting that none of the other sites have embedded the tweet, or discussed that part of Kerr's discussion.

I'm not saying we can't discuss the FAI's finances, I'm saying I'm not entertaining anything that can't be backed up with evidence.

[geysir]

Maybe I should have been clearer, I haven't seen Kerr's statement about LOI clubs not receiving their prize money repeated anywhere.
The only one of those links that mentions it is on the Virgin Media Sports twitter account.
It's interesting that none of the other sites have embedded the tweet, or discussed that part of Kerr's discussion.

I'm not saying we can't discuss the FAI's finances, I'm saying I'm not entertaining anything that can't be backed up with evidence.
Whether you personally entertain it is another matter. I don't know whether it is true or not, but it remains unanswered.
I'm saying this question of FAI governance is already out there in media outlets, sitting on the websites. of Virgin Media and Newstalk. This is the FAI, not an individual and and as a publicly accountable sporting association there will be questions asked about their governance. Are they holding on to the Uefa money longer than they should? are they delaying with forwarding funds to the clubs?
The FAI can chose to deny the allegation or they can continue to ignore it. Delaying paying out the funds to LOI clubs is not a crime, the FAI as a board have a right to take those decisions according to rules by which they govern the LOI.

[osarusan]

Kennedy was the one who wrote the article mentioning the protest, that was unplanned until that point: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/fans-to-stage-aviva-protest-over-delaney-rpghbwxg9

There was no mention of it on social media, or posts about it on any forum, before that article
Just because you had not seen any mention of it on social media or any forum before Kennedy published his article, you cannot be sure that it had not been mentioned in some place you don't frequent.

[tetsujin1979]

I searched several forums (fora?), Twitter, Facebook, and there's no mention of it before the article


There's two posts that mention tennis balls on YBIG from last November, but that was for the Denmark game and the discussion went no further than those two posts.

[paul_oshea]

Alan hunters forum.

[wexfordned]

Well thats that then.. If you didn't know about it and it wasn't put out on the for internet for everyone to see (including the FAI) it must have been unplanned

[wexfordned]

Well it seems Brian Kerr was right when he said teams are still waiting on Uefa prize money considering what has come out in recent days and today.

The whole board should be removed, not just Delaney and a forensic audit carried out over the last 6 years. (Anything earlier is more than likely deleted or shredded as the FAI dont need to keep documents any longer)

If the current board are still in place for the home game in June I'd expect major protests

[paul_oshea]

Today, Senator Ó Ríordáin said the purpose of today's meeting was to look at the future of the sport, investment in the game and analyse why it gets little investment in comparison with other sports.

He said: "John Delaney and the current board represent the past, we need now to talk about the future."

Speaking on the way into today's meeting, Tony Considine from the football fan group YBIG said there's a "further lack of clarity" following last night's FAI statement.

He asked: "Is he still being paid while he steps aside, what does step aside mean?"

He said that YBIG has ideas as to how the game in Ireland can progress, and that there's a "lot of common sense stuff" that can be done.


Funnily enough I dont see any foot.ie expertise there or invited. :D

[BonnieShels]

Today, Senator Ó Ríordáin said the purpose of today's meeting was to look at the future of the sport, investment in the game and analyse why it gets little investment in comparison with other sports.

He said: "John Delaney and the current board represent the past, we need now to talk about the future."

Speaking on the way into today's meeting, Tony Considine from the football fan group YBIG said there's a "further lack of clarity" following last night's FAI statement.

He asked: "Is he still being paid while he steps aside, what does step aside mean?"

He said that YBIG has ideas as to how the game in Ireland can progress, and that there's a "lot of common sense stuff" that can be done.


Funnily enough I dont see any foot.ie expertise there or invited. :D

Can't you be the go-between? The middle of the Venn diagram as it were.

[wexfordned]

To be fair one of the moderators here refused to believe the tennis ball protest was pre-planned and thought it only happened because of a story in the paper so its pretty clear whoever is in charge is well out of the loop to whatever is going on behind the scenes

[SkStu]

Funnily enough I dont see any foot.ie expertise there or invited. :D

Tony posts here too. Drumcondra69er - posts the blogs after each game. Or God's work, as i call it.

[tetsujin1979]

To be fair one of the moderators here refused to believe the tennis ball protest was pre-planned and thought it only happened because of a story in the paper so its pretty clear whoever is in charge is well out of the loop to whatever is going on behind the scenes
I didn't refuse to believe it, I said there was no evidence it was

[jbyrne]

To be fair one of the moderators here refused to believe the tennis ball protest was pre-planned and thought it only happened because of a story in the paper so its pretty clear whoever is in charge is well out of the loop to whatever is going on behind the scenes

i still dont think it was any fans radar until it was mentioned in the media

[paul_oshea]

To be fair one of the moderators here refused to believe the tennis ball protest was pre-planned and thought it only happened because of a story in the paper so its pretty clear whoever is in charge is well out of the loop to whatever is going on behind the scenes

Very true. The proper fans are all over in YBIG we discovered that years ago. That and people like me who actually go to games and know the "guys on the ground". The grassroots of Irish fans so to speak.

That's why I never go over there and generally avoid them on away trips :D

[paul_oshea]

I didn't refuse to believe it, I said there was no evidence it was

Not having a go at you Tets here but when we had the Jack grealish discussion it was tin hat mentality around that too, for me and a couple of others it was pretty clear he was gone, but opinion was limited cos no one had proof and the general acceptance was he would stick with us because of no proof. I think theres nothing worse than being ignorant to things going on around you, citing lack of hard evidence. The mafia flourished because of this kind of mentality.

There are many things like abuse stories for example where the rumours and others are quashed. And the consequences are dire. I know this is only a football forum but the concept is the same. Rumours usually point to some truth.

[geysir]

Not having a go at you Tets here but when we had the Jack grealish discussion it was tin hat mentality around that too, for me and a couple of others it was pretty clear he was gone, but opinion was limited cos no one had proof and the general acceptance was he would stick with us because of no proof. I think theres nothing worse than being ignorant to things going on around you, citing lack of hard evidence. The mafia flourished because of this kind of mentality.

There are many things like abuse stories for example where the rumours and others are quashed. And the consequences are dire. I know this is only a football forum but the concept is the same. Rumours usually point to some truth.
I agree Paul, the presence of reasonable evidence is enough to support an opinion and have a discussion about most any topic.

There are some people here, a clique who dogmatically refuse to do research, who claimed that it was not a requirement to make note of a director's loan in a company's annual report and viciously mocked those (much smarter people) who thought different.

[backstothewall]

At the risk of this getting back on topic...

Does anyone have any thoughts on the structure the new board should take? Or names of people they think should be considered?

Niall Quinn is obviously on most lists. I read an interview with Gareth Farrelly on 42.ie earlier who seems to be making his expertise known. Other Irish working at board level in football are Pádraig Smith at Colorado Rapids and Susan Whelan at Leicester.

[tetsujin1979]

Kevin Moran is a name I'd like to see discussed

[backstothewall]

There should be a player liason from the international sides on the board who travels with the players when possible. I think it was Stephen Kelly who I heard saying Delaney made sure the international team had whatever they needed. There must be no return to the pre-Saipan situation in his absence. Jon Walters' previous experience with the PFA and very recent retirement would seem to recommend him but it could easily be one of the women who so successfully organised the protest last year.

It would also seem to be best practice to have a representative from Sport Ireland and an independent director from the business world on the new board to keep an eye on them.

The PFAI, League of Ireland, grass roots football and supporters should also be represented.

[SkStu]

Kevin Moran is a name I'd like to see discussed

It has 4 vowels and 6 consonants. It also has 4 syllables. Irish people pronounce it normally but English pronounce it Mor-ANN. I like it. Solid name.

[gastric]

I believe he has an Accountancy degree and he has experience in business. Definitely worth looking at. He might bring the brains and Quinner could bring the public relation skills.

[Scrufil]

I have my doubts about Niall Quinn, when he played for Ireland he always came across as a moaner, he spent more time giving out for not getting frees than just actually getting up and on with the play. He is given the chance to co-commentate on matches and he is painful to listen to, like an Irish Terminator. I think he is not as capable as many think. A chancer in my opinion who sits on the fence but only pops up when prompted to do so.

His current high profile comes across as politics and I believe I know which political party is driving that narrative. Never a good idea to let someone in who is manipulated by politics. He is about 10 years older than Delaney who is regarded as the 'old brigade.' No, I want the new board to start with a younger profile. All who have played the game to be under 40 when coming in. Otherwise you are inviting in Brady, Giles, Dunphy types.

I would want all the League of Ireland clubs have a voice each at board level but once again only after a root and branch review of each club is carried out. Who around here trusts Bray's or Athlone's boards? The junior clubs and senior non LoI clubs should have less sway.

Board members in total only be allowed two 4 year term stints each max. That is more than enough. There are other aspects of the game they could help in after that.

There should be a arcitect and a builder on the board and someone who has served in a bank or finance position who knows the market.

There is a need for a good middleman or middlewoman on the board that can persuade councils and town planners that new stadia are not just for the locals but will cater for sports tourism and bring in conferences and small business operating within their confines.

I am not much good at naming names but hell you could throw in Conor McGregor as a wildcard on the board - anyone who can do the deals he has needs to be respected.

[pineapple stu]

He is about 10 years older than Delaney who is regarded as the 'old brigade.'
Quinn is 1 year older than Delaney, not 10?


All who have played the game to be under 40 when coming in.
I don't think this is reasonable. Being on a board has responsibilities (as the current ones are finding out). There's no point putting such onerous restrictions on potential members - you need the best people for the job. If they're 70, then fine. If they're non-football, then fine.


I would want all the League of Ireland clubs have a voice each at board level
You can'd do this for any number of reasons -

> 20 people on the board is too many for it to function properly, and that's before you bring in representatives from other areas (including independent directors)
> The board would be too biased towards one area of the game
> The LoI clubs can't manage themselves; what chance have they of managing the FAI?
> Most club boards are volunteers I would imagine; to go expecting that they add being on the FAI board to their duties - and do it properly - is expecting too much

Also, how big do you want the board to be? 20 from the LoI. More from junior/senior (I presume you mean intermediate) - maybe another 10 there? An architect and a builder - why? But that's another 2 anyway. Someone who has served in a bank or finance position - these are two really different roles. Which is it? Either way, it's another 1 on the board. Conor McGregor? What on earth would you want a violent cokehead on the board for? If you thought Delaney was bad enough for the FAI's reputation, McGregor would be way worse. And good middleman? What's that? There's no such qualification for example. It's also not the board's job to get involved in persuading local councils about stadium development; that's way too detailed for what a board should be doing - general oversight and strategic direction.

So that's up to 36 or so now that you're suggesting. That can't function as a board. The current one had 10 people (including Cody/treasurer guy, who've since resigned). That's plenty.

[Scrufil]

I knew I shouldn't be writing that when half-awake. This I was meant to edit to be a sub-structure for forming the board not the final board.
The architect, builder and banker are needed to give proper advice when clubs go building otherwise you get the grounds that take decades to complete like Shams, Harps and even Athlone with a half built ground. It has been pointed out that if they were there as part of the structure to advise the minister there would have been proper figures for the Children's Hospital.

I did say McGregor is a wildcard and I never heard him called a cokehead before.

[tetsujin1979]

At this stage, he'd probably more known for that than fighting

[pineapple stu]

Scrufil - I know what a middleman is, but if you're going to formally put "Middleman" on the board, it needs to have a definition. Anyone could be it; more than one person could be it. It makes no sense to designate someone as the "Middleman"

Harps, Athlone, etc, had access to builders and architects. To fill a board role with an architect to advise on maybe one project a year when there's already architects in Donegal and Westmeath makes no sense.

But the bottom line is that almost none of what you wrote has any relevance to what should be on the board. I've given detailed reasons (and all you can give in return is abuse...) And add to that that the board should have a couple of full-time staff - the CEO for one, and a couple of other high-ranking employees - and your structure just makes no sense

[Eminence Grise]

I want the new board to start with a younger profile. All who have played the game to be under 40 when coming in.

Definitely younger than than the current Jurassic throwbacks, but under 40 and ex-players? The board needs experience of running multi-million euro organisations (governance, legal & reg, finance, marketing, PR, comms and public affairs, high performance, stakeholder engagement etc) and there are few ex-players who fit that bill. I'd be doubtful that someone retired from playing about 5 years previously would have the experience needed. There's a role for one or two who understand football, but not the whole board.


I would want all the League of Ireland clubs have a voice each at board level but once again only after a root and branch review of each club is carried out. Who around here trusts Bray's or Athlone's boards? The junior clubs and senior non LoI clubs should have less sway.

Board members in total only be allowed two 4 year term stints each max. That is more than enough. There are other aspects of the game they could help in after that.

Not much to disagree with there, other than giving 22 clubs a board member each: one director is enough. A root and branch review is optimistic, but the negotations for the new league-FAI relationship might go some way towards enhanced club governance.


There should be a arcitect and a builder on the board and someone who has served in a bank or finance position who knows the market.

An architect and builder for grounds? A bit unnecessary, if I've understood you properly, but a banker? Seriously? Though, come to think of it, Nick Leeson ticks all the boxes.


There is a need for a good middleman or middlewoman on the board that can persuade councils and town planners that new stadia are not just for the locals but will cater for sports tourism and bring in conferences and small business operating within their confines.

I can name a load of lobbying and public affairs firms who could do this on a project basis, freeing up a directorship for more necessary and immediate work.


I am not much good at naming names but hell you could throw in Conor McGregor as a wildcard on the board - anyone who can do the deals he has needs to be respected.

Good call! There's nobody in Irish sport better able to offer advice to the FAI board on negotiating a plea bargain.;)

[paul_oshea]

I agree Paul, the presence of reasonable evidence is enough to support an opinion and have a discussion about most any topic.

There are some people here, a clique who dogmatically refuse to do research, who claimed that it was not a requirement to make note of a director's loan in a company's annual report and viciously mocked those (much smarter people) who thought different.

I was merely playing Devils Advocate. Certainly there isn't anyone smarter on here than I anyway.

[Eminence Grise]

Than me, Paul.

Because the first person pronoun 'I' becomes 'me' when it is the object of a preposition. Had you terminated the sentence with 'am' 'than' would have been a conjunction and the sentence, accordingly, grammatically correct.

Is there an emoji for pompous grammar nazi?

[paul_oshea]

I thought it was a given that am would proceed the I, therefore I am. you wouldn't say me am. Is that not acceptable use of shortened English nowadays? God knows we see all sorts passing for English today.

But point taken, perfect example of muphry's law. :D

[backstothewall]

Good piece from the London Times

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/where-does-irish-football-go-from-here-and-who-will-lead-the-way-7bqd67b82?shareToken=90569d198bcf103242855a4213daf 588

[Eminence Grise]

I thought it was a given that am would proceed the I, therefore I am. you wouldn't say me am. Is that not acceptable use of shortened English nowadays? God knows we see all sorts passing for English today.

But point taken, perfect example of muphry's law. :D

'Twas an open goal - and it'll probably be me tomorrow! That's Murphy's Law...

[paul_oshea]

Different law your Eminence!

[Eminence Grise]

Are you suuuuuure you invoked Murphy's law, Paul?:D

[paul_oshea]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muphry%27s_law

[Eminence Grise]

Well every day's a school day. I hadn't heard of that till now.