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thejollyrodger
17/04/2005, 11:42 AM
March 24, 2005

Irish unity is best way forward
By Tony Cascarino

WHEN someone as celebrated as George Best calls for the integration of the Northern Ireland and Ireland teams, you have to listen. And I think that he is right. Certainly, no one I knew in the Republic team would have had a problem with it. In all my years as an Ireland player, I did not hear any anti-Northern Ireland sentiments from anyone.

I remember once talking to Niall Quinn about why the Irish national teams had not joined together. Even though I played 88 times for Ireland, I suspected that, because I was not born in the country, my understanding would not be as deep as a native’s, so I asked for his opinion. But he didn’t know why, either. “It just hasn’t happened,” he said.

We used to play Northern Ireland regularly. The atmosphere surrounding the fixtures would depend on the level of political tension at the time. We played at Windsor Park in a World Cup qualifier in 1993, drawing 1-1, and the coach journey to the stadium left as deep an impression on me as the match. Sitting next to us as we drove through Belfast was a protective posse of armed soldiers in plain clothes.

We got off the bus and people were telling us: “Don’t go down this road, don’t go down that one, it’s not safe to walk down there.” I found it incredibly sad. The mood in the ground was always very hostile. It was a more aggressively pro-British crowd than you’d get in London. But the political situation now is less turbulent and you can see progress is being made. The Setanta Cup, the first all-Ireland competition for 25 years, is taking place and proving a success. Derry are based in Northern Ireland but play in the (Irish) Eircom League — perhaps one day there will be an all-Ireland division. Ireland’s rugby and boxing teams are drawn from both sides of the border.

Irish football’s history is complex and involves a power struggle between ruling bodies, but it was as late as the 1950s when Fifa ruled that both national associations must pick teams from within their boundaries and no longer could both call themselves simply “Ireland”.

Practical problems exist, both religious — sectarianism is not going to go away — and sporting. Where would the games be played? It would only be right to alternate — one match in Belfast, then one in Dublin. Uniting would hand the team a competitive advantage, though if the sides were joined tomorrow, how many Northern Ireland players would get into the squad? Even going back two decades, there would be few. Norman Whiteside, definitely; Alan McDonald, Keith Gillespie —perhaps.

That might cause resentment in Belfast, but if the teams are ever to be joined, it is vital that the squad is selected on merit, not to try to keep everyone happy. Things go in cycles, so no doubt in the future a better crop of players will emerge from the North. Uniting the football teams is a natural progression because I do believe Ireland itself will be reunited one day. There would be difficulties in the aftermath, as there were in Germany when the Berlin Wall came down, but I believe the long-term benefits would be worth it.

When footballers take a political stance, there is the danger that they will be used as pawns. And there are risks: one of my former team-mates was spotted campaigning for a political party in the 1980s and received a death threat as a result. No wonder most footballers try to leave the politics to the politicians.

Not that I am naive. I recognise that as soon as you pull on your country’s shirt you are a symbol for that nation, and people will use that as a way of promoting contrasts and rivalries. But I also know that sport is a healing force and something as apparently trivial as football can make a profound and positive difference if we are brave enough to give it a chance.

COMBINED FORCES

ALL-IRELAND (possible; 4-4-2): S Given (Newcastle United) — S Carr (Newcastle United), R Dunne (Manchester City), K Cunningham (Birmingham City), A Hughes* (Newcastle United) — A Reid (Tottenham Hotspur), Roy Keane (Manchester United), K Kilbane (Everton), D Duff (Chelsea) — D Healy* (Leeds United), Robbie Keane (Tottenham Hotspur). Substitutes: M Hughes* (Crystal Palace), K Gillespie* (Leicester City), Maik Taylor* (Birmingham City), J O’Shea (Manchester United), A O’Brien (Newcastle United), C Morrison (Birmingham City), S Finnan (Liverpool), M Holland (Charlton Athletic).

* denotes Northern Ireland player

Seems like Cas is in favour of the whole process as well

pete
17/04/2005, 12:06 PM
Football is the only major sport in this island which is drawn from all sectors of society.

Easy for GAA to have all-ireland league as probably 99% nationalist. Rugby is also almost entirely Protestant run sport in NI.

I think will be all-ireland league in next 5 years. Will still need lot of policing for games with potential trouble but vast majority (e.g. Portadown v Cork City last week) won't need any extra policing.

eirebhoy
17/04/2005, 12:19 PM
As I've said 100 times. Will people stop thinking in such a short term. The Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland have never both had decent teams at the same time. When they were getting to Quarter finals of World cups we were a 3rd world nation in football terms. They are crap atm but it won't last more than a few years. They have a bigger population than Dublin. Take the Dublin players away from us and we're rightly screwed. So basically, think long term. Who's to say we'll have a half decent team forever?

This is certainly the way to get us back to a 32 county republic which is the main reason I want to see it happening.

Saint Tom
17/04/2005, 12:44 PM
not gonna happen any time soon lads. alternate matches between dublin and Belfats my arse. its only a town FFS. I'd sooner wait for a republic of ireland side drawn from 32 counties than any uneasy compromise? would they play God save the queen as well as amhráin na bhfiann?

thejollyrodger
17/04/2005, 1:37 PM
Well if rugby is played in dublin then soccer should follow suit. The most people live in Dublin so it just makes sense, along with transport, airports, hotels etc.

I think a 32 county soccer team might not be an impossibility. Things seem to be moving on, take the GAA decision which would be impossible 10 years a go. There is the Setanta Cup as well.

Northern Ireland seems to be in the dole drums sport wise. Hopefully that will change in the coming years but I cant see it. Sport these days seems to be all about money and there isnt a whole pile of money in sport in the north.

Any 32 county team should be based on the best players not just including NI players just to keep everyone happy. The same goes for the manager too. Kerr has a better record and has won things compared to the NI manager. I dont know what would happen with the FAI and IFA.

paul_oshea
17/04/2005, 2:50 PM
i would be for an all ireland league, this way it would start the process of an all ireland team. i agree with eirebhoy on this, lets think long term, if we can pull players from a pool of 5.5 million instead of just under 4 we can and will become a better team.

i cant see a 32 county team for a long time yet. however i do see the possibility of an all ireland league.

brine3
17/04/2005, 3:59 PM
Nevermind the team now, what would a united lineup looked like in 1982? Could have gone all the way possibly...

So when the next 1982 comes around it would be cool if we could pool our resources.

dcfcsteve
17/04/2005, 4:12 PM
An all-island team and/or league would do little or nothing to progress the cause of Irish unity. It wouldn't hurt it, but it's hardly gonna have the Unionist population waking-up one morning and deciding that it's not so great to be British after-all. To think otherwise is naive.

Even the most Protestant of sports in the North - rugby - being run on an all-island basis forever has had no impact upon the quest for Irish political unity.

If only politics in the North was that simple....

BobbySands
17/04/2005, 9:50 PM
I would be happy to see an all Ireland team. My only stipulation would be that they play under the Irish tricolour and that the Irish national anthem was used. If we (the south) had to compromise on those points I'd stick with the current situation even if we were to once again become the poor relations as in the early eighties.

pete
17/04/2005, 9:50 PM
If football was to follow rugby would have 1 NI player on the bench. No Ulster player amoung 11 irish players on British & Irish Lions squad.

Green Tribe
18/04/2005, 2:14 AM
An all-island team and/or league would do little or nothing to progress the cause of Irish unity. It wouldn't hurt it, but it's hardly gonna have the Unionist population waking-up one morning and deciding that it's not so great to be British after-all. To think otherwise is naive.

Even the most Protestant of sports in the North - rugby - being run on an all-island basis forever has had no impact upon the quest for Irish political unity.

If only politics in the North was that simple....

i hear you on this, being from the north myself, i know that anything like an All-Ireland footie team or a united Ireland even would cause uproar amongst the unionists, they would cause the worst civil war ever and it is not worth it, i would rather live in peace and hope the population demographics can sort it out :D

Donal81
18/04/2005, 9:19 AM
I would be happy to see an all Ireland team. My only stipulation would be that they play under the Irish tricolour and that the Irish national anthem was used. If we (the south) had to compromise on those points I'd stick with the current situation even if we were to once again become the poor relations as in the early eighties.

I would be happy to have a united Ireland. My only stipulation is that we keep the tricolour as the national flag and keep Amhrain na bhFiann as the national anthem. :rolleyes:

When will the young Irelanders on this website ever realise that a united Ireland football team or in general isn't going to come without compromise. If you want what you want in that context without compromise, you're just like the idiots on the Garvaghy Road, both the residents and those camped outside it.

These are only songs, ffs! Songs and flags! And we bang on about the GAA living in the past...

Plastic Paddy
18/04/2005, 10:12 AM
i would rather live in peace and hope the population demographics can sort it out

Well then KT, you know what you have to do - just lie back and think of old Ireland... :eek: :p :D

:D PP

gspain
18/04/2005, 10:38 AM
As I've said 100 times. Will people stop thinking in such a short term. The Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland have never both had decent teams at the same time. When they were getting to Quarter finals of World cups we were a 3rd world nation in football terms. They are crap atm but it won't last more than a few years. They have a bigger population than Dublin. Take the Dublin players away from us and we're rightly screwed. So basically, think long term. Who's to say we'll have a half decent team forever?

This is certainly the way to get us back to a 32 county republic which is the main reason I want to see it happening.

When they reached the quarter finals of the Wrold Cup (58 only occasion) we were seconds away form ensuring at least a playoff until John Atyeo scored a last gasp equaliser at Dalyer. We had a decent team at the time that had beaten world champions Germany 3-0 and won 4-1 in Rotterdam. Yes there were times when we were a 3rd rate footballing nation but we had some damn good teams too.

BTW it is often reported they reached the quarter finals in 1982 but actually it was the 2nd round group stages or last 12. We missed out on those finals because of a disgraceful display of refereeing by a Mr Nazare from Portugal when we met Belgium in Brussels. Watching the game one could only assume the referee was bribed but then nobody expected a country like Belgium to bribe referees until Anderlect were found guilty years afterwards of bribing referees at the time. Even still we missed out on goal difference to France who put 7 past Cyprus on grass in Limassol while ourselves, the Dutch and the Belgians all won by the odd goal on sand in Nicosia.

As for an All Ireland team I can't see it happening. The majority of people in Northern Ireland don't want it. Rugby and Hockey et al never split. I could only see it happening if FIFA forced the UK to field one national team.

I'm not convinced re the world beaters argument either. We had an All Ireland team from 1882 until 1922 and effectively the IFA side was an All Ireland team until 1950. One Home Championship (1914) in that period was hardly the stuff of world beaters.

I've no objection to an All Ireland team (assuming it is by consent) but don't see it happening and think it is normally dragged up o na slow newsday.

Baker
18/04/2005, 12:56 PM
Id love to see a united team.

Even though no one from the north would get on the Republics first team at the moment this will not always be the case and in the long term would increase our chances of doing well such as in the seventies and early 1980s when both the Republic and the North had a number of world class players supplemented by a few journey men.

However, it will not happen any time soon. In order to send out a United Ireland team there could only be one Football Association on the island. The logistics of trying to merge the two FA's would see any attempt to do so fail, short of FIFA ordering it after political unification.

Just to demonstarte how difficult it could be its worth remembering that the original organisation is the IFA up in Belfast. It was the south who broke away in the 20s to Dublin after years of anti-Southern bias by the Belfast IFA. Apparantly for years you generally had to be a Protestant from Belfast to be even considered to play for Ireland while southern clubs, who led the call for a breakaway southern FAI after partition, were treated with nothing but contempt by the Belfast IFA.

Should a move towards establishing a United Ireland FA in the future gather momentum, would the south agree if the Northern IFA argued that as it is the original seat of football on the island the FAI would need to pack in and move their authority for the 26 Counties back to Belfast with international games being played in the Norths shiny new stadium on the grounds of the Maze prison in Belfast?

As mentioned above turkeys dont vote for Christmas!

thejollyrodger
18/04/2005, 2:37 PM
i wouldnt back a move to belfast ? who wants to play up there ?? not me anyway

holidaysong
18/04/2005, 2:56 PM
i wouldnt back a move to belfast ? who wants to play up there ?? not me anyway

Would be closer (by about 10km) for me than Dublin :D

Green Tribe
18/04/2005, 5:33 PM
Well then KT, you know what you have to do - just lie back and think of old Ireland... :eek: :p :D

:D PP

ya cheeky mare PP! :D u know what i mean though!

Colie
18/04/2005, 7:31 PM
Well the players from the North would want to play for us coz top international footy is where it's at for any pro & the d1ckhead fans could fk off & support England. We'd get the best of both worlds.

CollegeTillIDie
18/04/2005, 9:21 PM
Playing in the North's new proposed stadium would be a-Maze-ing :D

holidaysong
19/04/2005, 2:20 PM
Playing in the North's new proposed stadium would be a-Maze-ing :D

Jesus.... :eek:

thejollyrodger
19/04/2005, 3:57 PM
its only going to be 30,000 seater FFS !! hardly world class :rolleyes:

Fair enough though, we could play 1 or 2 matches there. live Vs Faroes and Vs Cyprus :p