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Roo69
15/04/2005, 11:00 AM
Did anyone watch the programme on RTE1 last night ? Truely shocking stuff. I can see why the Juve fans still hold a grudge against the liverpool fans all these years later.

anto1208
15/04/2005, 11:12 AM
to think liverpool feel a banner with friendship on it can make up for all that is a joke ,

but did they mention the fact that the italian fans were trowing bricks at the players !! as this is often left out ,
or that the juve fans were trowing stuff at the liverpool fans this is why they rushed them . coz it was well known that liverpool and everton fans werent trouble makers like utd but that they used to just rob the city blind ( this is why the fans allways had really good clothes like the burbury hats etc still seen today )

carrickharp
15/04/2005, 11:15 AM
Very good programme, sad times them.

stojkovic
15/04/2005, 11:35 AM
Did anyone watch the programme on RTE1 last night ? Truely shocking stuff. I can see why the Juve fans still hold a grudge against the liverpool fans all these years later.
You obviously didnt watch the second half of the programme where they analysed how it all happened.

Roo69
15/04/2005, 11:43 AM
You obviously didnt watch the second half of the programme where they analysed how it all happened.

I watched it all actually....was glued to the telly, what in my post actually even remotely says different ?

Seems like you did'nt watch the 1st half - the build up to when it happend

Schumi
15/04/2005, 11:46 AM
I missed that :( Is there any chance of it being repeated?

Macy
15/04/2005, 11:46 AM
to think liverpool feel a banner with friendship on it can make up for all that is a joke ,

but did they mention the fact that the italian fans were trowing bricks at the players !! as this is often left out ,
or that the juve fans were trowing stuff at the liverpool fans this is why they rushed them . coz it was well known that liverpool and everton fans werent trouble makers like utd but that they used to just rob the city blind ( this is why the fans allways had really good clothes like the burbury hats etc still seen today )
Yeah right, the scousers just used to rob!!! Every club had, and still has, a hoolie element. Liverpool and Everton were reknowned for their use of blades (sure they even named a park after their favourite one ;) ). It's just pure revisionism to suggest that Liverpool or Everton fans weren't trouble makers, and also clueless.

On the Banner, The Sun apology was never accepted, nor do I think that an apology from South Yorkshire Police would be accepted either.

Schumi
15/04/2005, 11:49 AM
On the Banner, The Sun apology was never accepted, nor do I think that an apology from South Yorkshire Police would be accepted either.
Indeed. There was a banner at the game saying something like "Easy to speak, difficult to forgive" apparently.

Macy
15/04/2005, 12:00 PM
Indeed. There was a banner at the game saying something like "Easy to speak, difficult to forgive" apparently.
Think there were a few less tasteful ones. btw don't necessarily think that in both cases the fans should forgive and forget.

stojkovic
15/04/2005, 12:05 PM
I watched it all actually....was glued to the telly, what in my post actually even remotely says different ?

Seems like you did'nt watch the 1st half - the build up to when it happend
I watched it all - you label them 'Liverpool' fans, did you not see a number of fans wearing England red jerseys ?

Italian fans hate ALL English fans for what happened not just Liverpool.

Did you not see the riots at Luton-Millwall and Birmingham-Leeds (where someone died when the wall collapsed) and England fans rampaging through Europe. Did you not see Bradford and listen to the comments about how football was run in those days.

Mid Eighties England was in turmoil with Thatcher, the miner strikes and everything else going on.

It was however an excellent programme.

noby
15/04/2005, 12:12 PM
I think the Belgian police guy summed it up when he said while he would never excuse the actions of the hooligans, and they were the root cause of the tragedy, there was an unfortunate set of circumstances and chain of events that escalated the incident.




I missed that Is there any chance of it being repeated?

It was a channel 4/RTE production, so it might be on C4. I think there's another one on BBC the weekend

Macy
15/04/2005, 12:14 PM
Here we go again, propogating the myth that it wasn't Liverpool fans - It was Chelsea, NF etc etc :rolleyes:

Roo69
15/04/2005, 12:16 PM
I watched it all - you label them 'Liverpool' fans, did you not see a number of fans wearing England red jerseys ?.

not being smart, but whats your point ? Liverpool are from England. That would be like it i worse an Ireland Jersey to a Bray match.


Italian fans hate ALL English fans for what happened not just Liverpool.


Did you not see the riots at Luton-Millwall and Birmingham-Leeds (where someone died when the wall collapsed) and England fans rampaging through Europe. Did you not see Bradford and listen to the comments about how football was run in those days.

Football in the 70's and 80's was full of this, every single club had there hooligan element, and still do. As someone already mentioned, It was wrong of the programme to say Liverpool fans never caused trouble - they did !


Mid Eighties England was in turmoil with Thatcher, the miner strikes and everything else going on.

That did'nt give the right to take innocent lives.


It was however an excellent programme.

Agreed

Junior
15/04/2005, 12:21 PM
Think there were a few less tasteful ones. btw don't necessarily think that in both cases the fans should forgive and forget.

Like the Juve one that read ""15.4.89. Sheffield. God Exists." pretty distatseful in anyones book.

Perhaps a more reflective one being "Easy to speak ... difficult to pardon."

One thing that gripes with me on this one. What (If anything) has Liverpool FC done during the last 20 years to cultivate "amicizia" (friendship) between the clubs.

I'm open to correction but its seems very lame to wait until the next time you play a side (particularly if its a 20 year gap) before you make any public announcements of friendship and sorrow?

Schumi
15/04/2005, 12:26 PM
Think there were a few less tasteful ones.I'm sure there were but the usual 'Reds Animals' or any tasteless Hillsborough references don't really give too much of an insight.

btw don't necessarily think that in both cases the fans should forgive and forget.
Forgiving is up to them in both cases but neither tragedy should ever be forgotten.

Junior
15/04/2005, 12:26 PM
I watched it all - you label them 'Liverpool' fans, did you not see a number of fans wearing England red jerseys ?


I saw a fella and a girl on the tv at the game in Turin on Weds both wearing the Green Ireland Jersey? Your point caller??

KK77
15/04/2005, 12:59 PM
not being smart, but whats your point ? Liverpool are from England. That would be like it i worse an Ireland Jersey to a Bray match.





Football in the 70's and 80's was full of this, every single club had there hooligan element, and still do. As someone already mentioned, It was wrong of the programme to say Liverpool fans never caused trouble - they did !



That did'nt give the right to take innocent lives.



Agreed



Noticed you didn't put up a post about today being the 16th anniversay of Hillsboro. Bet your a manc so you thought you' put up the post "O I NEVER KNEW THAT THIS AND THAT HAPPENED AT HEYSEL" yeah right.

Heres something for you take a trip down salford quays after a Manc game i and see how many Mancs over the years have kicked f**k out of opposing fans some lucky to be alive. Mate Heysel happened 20 years ago everyone knows what happened and how it happened 14 Liverpool fans served time for it and rightly so but don't start coming on here putting up psots like you did just so you can have a go at scousers cause 99% are all decent ordinary fans AND DON'T say your not having a go at the true fans coz you are you are trying to, a load of crap mate.

KK77
15/04/2005, 1:02 PM
[QUOTE=anto1208]to think liverpool feel a banner with friendship on it can make up for all that is a joke ,

What are you talking about the flag was not designed to make up for it it was made by fans from RAOTL to offer peace everyone at Liverpool knows that nothing will bring those people back what sort of fool are you to think the flag was made to make up for it.

anto1208
15/04/2005, 1:23 PM
[QUOTE=anto1208]to think liverpool feel a banner with friendship on it can make up for all that is a joke ,

What are you talking about the flag was not designed to make up for it it was made by fans from RAOTL to offer peace everyone at Liverpool knows that nothing will bring those people back what sort of fool are you to think the flag was made to make up for it.




you say it was to offer peace does this not mean that they were trying to make it up to them .( if 2 people are fighting and they make up , it means that they offer peace and friend ship to each other )

and this is what the banner and the minutes silence were for ,liverpool to say sorry .

Schumi
15/04/2005, 1:24 PM
Interesting piece on Heysel from a Juve site: http://bianconeri.tripod.com/heysel.html

anto1208
15/04/2005, 1:29 PM
Yeah right, the scousers just used to rob!!! Every club had, and still has, a hoolie element. Liverpool and Everton were reknowned for their use of blades (sure they even named a park after their favourite one ;) ). It's just pure revisionism to suggest that Liverpool or Everton fans weren't trouble makers, and also clueless.

On the Banner, The Sun apology was never accepted, nor do I think that an apology from South Yorkshire Police would be accepted either.

go back and read my comment again it say s they were nt trouble makers like utd fans ,i didnt say that they didnt cause some trouble but in comparison to utd fans they were harmless


below is taken from this website you should read it !!!!!(note this line on the second paragraph : "Despite the prevailing terrace culture, Liverpool supporters had no particular reputation for violence, "

http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/showthread/t-249384.html



Although the major London firms of West Ham, Millwall and Chelsea attracted the most media attention, almost any club was capable of attracting hundreds if not thousands of willing combatants. Leeds United were particularly notorious, as were Newcastle United, Cardiff City, Swansea City, and the Sheffield and Manchester clubs. Violence between Cardiff and Swansea was so bad that for a while it seemed likely that the fixture would be deleted from the season's programme altogether, and the result decided by the Pools panel. In Cambridge, city councillors attempted to ban visiting supporters after Millwall wrecked the city centre. Luton Town went one step further and actually did ban opposing supporters, simultaneously introducing an identity card scheme for home fans after Millwall fans rioted through their town. Every level of the game was affected: there were widespread disturbances when Leyton Orient played Slough. These were not random events, either. There was a recognised pecking order running from 'Generals' at the top to 'Under 5's' or 'Youth Firms' of junior thugs at the bottom. 'Spotters' were employed to report on the movements of opposing supporters. Indeed, a journalist commenting on Arsenal's Gooners at the time wrote 'They looked like an army - and after the game went into action like one'. The banning of alcohol from grounds did little to stem the violence. Injecting oranges with vodka was one imaginative solution. Others simply drank outside the ground or took drugs. Most were happy enough to 'mix it' while completely sober.

Despite the prevailing terrace culture, Liverpool supporters had no particular reputation for violence, outside of an intense rivalry with Manchester United (during the 1985 FA Cup semi-final between the teams, supporters had hurled golf balls with eight inch nails driven through them at each other). However, news of what had happened in Rome spread quickly. It became clear that some sort of reprisal was considered to be in order. The perfect opportunity presented itself the following year, when Liverpool again reached the European Cup Final and again faced an Italian team - Juventus of Turin. Even the most placid terrace fan knew that there was going to be unfinished business to attend to at the Heysel Stadium.

razor
15/04/2005, 1:29 PM
Good show, was pretty upset going to bed last night.
Don't think they delved deep enough though, the looked at circumstance and interviewed 2 Liverpool fans, 1 from Dublin and 1 neutral also from Ireland.
They didn't really look at the root cause of the charge, was there incitement?
was it drunken fans intent on trouble?
There was always the rumour that it wasn't Liverpool fans but its impossible to prove that either way. Its stupid also to think there aren't hoolies at Liverpool.
Not condoning any hooligan actions but the stadium was a death trap and the Belgians were clueless.
I don't expect the Italians to forget, how could you ?
The whole thing was very very sad.
Thankfully things have improved and hopefully we'll never see its like again.

Roo69
15/04/2005, 1:34 PM
Noticed you didn't put up a post about today being the 16th anniversay of Hillsboro. Bet your a manc so you thought you' put up the post "O I NEVER KNEW THAT THIS AND THAT HAPPENED AT HEYSEL" yeah right.

Heres something for you take a trip down salford quays after a Manc game i and see how many Mancs over the years have kicked f**k out of opposing fans some lucky to be alive. Mate Heysel happened 20 years ago everyone knows what happened and how it happened 14 Liverpool fans served time for it and rightly so but don't start coming on here putting up psots like you did just so you can have a go at scousers cause 99% are all decent ordinary fans AND DON'T say your not having a go at the true fans coz you are you are trying to, a load of crap mate.

In fairness.............will you ever cop on ! not i'm not a Manc, Born and bread in Bray, but i do support them and it has nothing to do with what happened that night.

I never mentioned Hillsboro once because i was talking about Heysel, Hillsboro is a totally different thing were again innocent fans died when they should'nt have.

It's as simple as this. Juve fans would not have dies if Liverpool fans were not roiting and tried to tak the section they were in. FFS, they were still burning Juve flags and scarves after the match in the spot were 39 people had died ! If that's not scum what is ! and i'm not having ago at EVERY liverpool fan as you seem to think i am, a lot of my mates are Liverpool fans, i dont think there scum, but the people who did this are ! FACT ! it does'nt matter who they supported, weather it be Liverpool, Man U, Celtic, Ireland or fcuking Bray............it you kill people by your actions then you are scum !

Get off you high horse and look at the facts !

did you actually even bother to read my posts ? If you had, you will have noticed that i said EVERY single club have a hooligan element, they always have and always will.

Junior
15/04/2005, 1:39 PM
go back and read my comment again it say s they were nt trouble makers like utd fans ,i didnt say that they didnt cause some trouble but in comparison to utd fans they were angels . plus in the 80's other teams fans travelled just to cuase trouble . im not a pool fan nothing would give me greater pleasure to bad mouth them but the scousers were nt that bad .

Do you have any experience of this period? can you quote any reasonable sources to suggest this is true?



No


Thought not.

Looks like your mob Everton only recently had their handbags out with Man U idiots
http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0100regionalnews/tm_objectid=15218709&method=full&siteid=50061&headline=are-we-going-back-to-the-dark-days-of-football--name_page.html

No reputation for football violence? well they had enough material to write a book about themselves. grow up!


Boys from the Mersey, The: The Story of Liverpool's Annie Road End Crew Football's First Clobbered-up Mob

Dublin12
15/04/2005, 1:39 PM
It was amazing to see the Juve players celebrating after the game and did Platini ever apologise to the Juventus fans for celebrating,after the peno,where so many died :confused: ,truly shocking how they ever played that game :(

Baker
15/04/2005, 1:40 PM
Very well made programme.

Some of the pictures of the riot was really shocking, Id never actually seen any of the coverage of what had happened there before.

Makes you understand why sections of the Juve support were still so hostile to the attempts of reconciliation made at Anfield a few weeks ago, although the efforts made by Liverpool was a step in the right direction.

The primary cause of what happened it has to be remembered was the rioting in the terrace. The other excuses such as the horrible state of the stadium, the unprepared and uncoordinated police etc meant that less lives were saved than may have been possible, but they would not have caused any deaths on their own had the fighting not started. Although it was naive and even reckless on behalf of the authorities not to expect trouble at that time.

anto1208
15/04/2005, 1:46 PM
Do you have any experience of this period? can you quote any reasonable sources to suggest this is true?



No


Thought not.


go back up ive added a source and some cut and paste's

KK77
15/04/2005, 1:48 PM
you say it was to offer peace does this not mean that they were trying to make it up to them .( if 2 people are fighting and they make up , it means that they offer peace and friend ship to each other )

and this is what the banner and the minutes silence were for ,liverpool to say sorry .


Minutes silence was for the Pope

Yes they were trying to say sorry whats wrong with that????
Both clubs have had numerous things between them since the actual summer of Heysel to try and bulid bridges have a look at the programme on the night of the game and you'll see that they even have photos just so you can see it for yourself.

Junior
15/04/2005, 1:54 PM
go back up ive added a source and some cut and paste's

likewise.

Don't know the source of the article. Liverpool may not have been the worst of all the firms, but that doesn't mean they just walked around in fancy clothing. They have and Im sure still do have idiots intent on causing trouble. All clubs do.

KK77
15/04/2005, 1:55 PM
In fairness.............will you ever cop on ! not i'm not a Manc, Born and bread in Bray, but i do support them and it has nothing to do with what happened that night.

I never mentioned Hillsboro once because i was talking about Heysel, Hillsboro is a totally different thing were again innocent fans died when they should'nt have.

It's as simple as this. Juve fans would not have dies if Liverpool fans were not roiting and tried to tak the section they were in. FFS, they were still burning Juve flags and scarves after the match in the spot were 39 people had died ! If that's not scum what is ! and i'm not having ago at EVERY liverpool fan as you seem to think i am, a lot of my mates are Liverpool fans, i dont think there scum, but the people who did this are ! FACT ! it does'nt matter who they supported, weather it be Liverpool, Man U, Celtic, Ireland or fcuking Bray............it you kill people by your actions then you are scum !

Get off you high horse and look at the facts !

did you actually even bother to read my posts ? If you had, you will have noticed that i said EVERY single club have a hooligan element, they always have and always will.

Sorry i am sure your mates are Liverpool fans from their armchairs no harm in that you can talk all you like your were having ago at Liverpool fans come on your fooling no one. Yes Hillsboro was different but you brought Heysel up on the day of the 16th anniversary of Hillsboro ok you saw the Heysel programme last night FAIR ENOUGH but what if it had been about Hillsboro would you have be so quick to post???? I DON'T THINK SO

anto1208
15/04/2005, 1:57 PM
likewise.

Don't know the source of the article. Liverpool may not have been the worst of all the firms, but that doesn't mean they just walked around in fancy clothing. They have and Im sure still do have idiots intent on causing trouble. All clubs do.

of coarse i thought that since this was a forum for football fans that every one would know that all clubs have a few idiots so i did nt feel i had to mention this but as for liverpool at the time they were nt know as notorious hooligans LIKE utd fans were .thats my point

as it states here :"Despite the prevailing terrace culture, Liverpool supporters had no particular reputation for violence," .

Junior
15/04/2005, 2:02 PM
of coarse i thought that since this was a forum for football fans that every one would know that all clubs have a few idiots so i did nt feel i had to mention this but as for liverpool at the time they were nt know as notorious hooligans LIKE utd fans were .thats my point

as it states here :"Despite the prevailing terrace culture, Liverpool supporters had no particular reputation for violence," .

Yeah I managed to read that in your original post :rolleyes: Its just a sentence on a forum - means **** all. Where does it say in your wonderful source that UTD were the big bad notorious hooligans?

By the way I don't care for Utd or Liverpool - Just think you're being a little naive. Saw United and Liverpool myself at Anfield in 91. Running battles between them across Stanley Park. ****in idiots.

Roo69
15/04/2005, 2:03 PM
Sorry i am sure your mates are Liverpool fans from their armchairs no harm in that you can talk all you like your were having ago at Liverpool fans come on your fooling no one. Yes Hillsboro was different but you brought Heysel up on the day of the 16th anniversary of Hillsboro ok you saw the Heysel programme last night FAIR ENOUGH but what if it had been about Hillsboro would you have be so quick to post???? I DON'T THINK SO

I brought the subject because of the very well made programme about it I watched last night, I'm actually surprised that no one had posted about it before me ! And the same would be if I had watched a programme about Hillsboro'.

From the way I am understanding your posts, you are taking offence to me posting about the Liverpool fans who killed the Juve fans in Heysel and that you think than I am having blaming ALL Liverpool fans for it.

Jesus Rafa, I thought you were more intelligent than that !

KK77
15/04/2005, 2:25 PM
I brought the subject because of the very well made programme about it I watched last night, I'm actually surprised that no one had posted about it before me ! And the same would be if I had watched a programme about Hillsboro'.

From the way I am understanding your posts, you are taking offence to me posting about the Liverpool fans who killed the Juve fans in Heysel and that you think than I am having blaming ALL Liverpool fans for it.

Jesus Rafa, I thought you were more intelligent than that !

Its nothing got to do with intelligence.

It just annoys me when people like you are so quick to post about things like Heysel we all know the 14 fans who were convicted were scum as i said but LIVERPOOL FOOTBALL CLUB, PLAYERS AND 99% OF THEIR FANS DIDN'T (THE REAL FANS) kill anyone. The club have done several things since the summer of 85 up until last week to TRY and bulid bridges what have the police etc done about Hillsboro were there any apologies can you tell me????????

Roo69
15/04/2005, 3:00 PM
Its nothing got to do with intelligence.

It just annoys me when people like you are so quick to post about things like Heysel we all know the 14 fans who were convicted were scum as i said but LIVERPOOL FOOTBALL CLUB, PLAYERS AND 99% OF THEIR FANS DIDN'T (THE REAL FANS) kill anyone. The club have done several things since the summer of 85 up until last week to TRY and bulid bridges what have the police etc done about Hillsboro were there any apologies can you tell me????????

Rafa, They were Liverpool fans who killed juve fans and there was a hell of a lot more than just 14 of them involved - they took the rap (and rightly so) for thousands of liverpool fans who went on the rampage, stop trying to kid yourself man. At THAT match i would reckon more than 1% of Liverpool fans were invloved in it, and as you say that does not mean all 'pool fans are like that - of course there not, there decent people like most football fans.

You keep refering to Hillsboro' - Start a new bloody thread, this is about HEYSEL - i.e the Title: Heysel Stadium Disaster

KK77
15/04/2005, 3:23 PM
Rafa, They were Liverpool fans who killed juve fans and there was a hell of a lot more than just 14 of them involved - they took the rap (and rightly so) for thousands of liverpool fans who went on the rampage, stop trying to kid yourself man. At THAT match i would reckon more than 1% of Liverpool fans were invloved in it, and as you say that does not mean all 'pool fans are like that - of course there not, there decent people like most football fans.

You keep refering to Hillsboro' - Start a new bloody thread, this is about HEYSEL - i.e the Title: Heysel Stadium Disaster

Are you really completely THICK i thought you would have copped on by now i mentioned Hillsboro several times because 10 mins ago 16 years ago 96 Liverpool fans lost their lives because of who???? I know do you???? Liverpool football club apologised and have been buliding bridges with Juve since then FACT what more can they do????? Yes there were more than 14 i know that. No one from Liverpool has hidden behind Heysel but people have behind Hillsboro. Heysel gets remembered every year on May 29th today is April 16th you should show some respect for the 96 who died 16 years ago today afterall its their day to be remembered just like HEYSEL was over the two legs and every year. You said you were surprised no one had posted about HEYSEL after last nights programme well all i'll say is APRIL 16TH they probably thought it was the 96 fans who died deserves to be remembered and respected.

RIP 96

Metrostars
15/04/2005, 3:41 PM
blah blah blah... Heysel gets remembered every year on May 29th today is April 16th you should show some respect for the 96 who died 16 years ago today afterall its their day to be remembered just like HEYSEL was over the two legs and every year. You said you were surprised no one had posted about HEYSEL after last nights programme well all i'll say is APRIL 16TH they probably thought it was the 96 fans who died deserves to be remembered and respected.

RIP 96

Jeez, if today is April 16th, I'm f-ked becuase I was supposed to send in my US Tax Return on April 15th the latest and I sent it earlier this morning.

Last time I checked it was April 15th.

If talking about the April 16 1989 tragedy is so important to you, first get the spelling right. It's Hillsborough, not Hillsboro. Second, open a new thread because the Heysel riots have NOTHING to do with Hillsborough.

jockser
15/04/2005, 3:45 PM
Heysel 39
RIP

Roo69
15/04/2005, 3:50 PM
Are you really completely THICK i thought you would have copped on by now i mentioned Hillsboro several times because 10 mins ago 16 years ago 96 Liverpool fans lost their lives because of who???? I know do you???? Liverpool football club apologised and have been buliding bridges with Juve since then FACT what more can they do????? Yes there were more than 14 i know that. No one from Liverpool has hidden behind Heysel but people have behind Hillsboro. Heysel gets remembered every year on May 29th today is April 16th you should show some respect for the 96 who died 16 years ago today afterall its their day to be remembered just like HEYSEL was over the two legs and every year. You said you were surprised no one had posted about HEYSEL after last nights programme well all i'll say is APRIL 16TH they probably thought it was the 96 fans who died deserves to be remembered and respected.

RIP 96

How embarrassing for you !!!!!!!!! Get your facts right before you get up on your little high horse - also start a new thread, as i have said this is about The Heysel Stadium Disaster. It has nothing what so ever to do with this thread the way you seem to think it does.

And one more thing...........when did i once in all my posts disrespect the liverpool fans that so sadly died in Sheffield in 1989 ?

KK77
15/04/2005, 4:12 PM
How embarrassing for you !!!!!!!!! Get your facts right before you get up on your little high horse - also start a new thread, as i have said this is about The Heysel Stadium Disaster. It has nothing what so ever to do with this thread the way you seem to think it does.

And one more thing...........when did i once in all my posts disrespect the liverpool fans that so sadly died in Sheffield in 1989 ?

Ok i hit the 6 instead of the 15th fair enough can't all be perfect look good luck to you we all have our opinions i just think on the anniversary of HillsbOROUGH you could have held off on your Heysel thread thats how i think your being disrespectful to the 96 who died.

KK77
15/04/2005, 4:13 PM
Heysel 39
RIP


29th may 85

heysel 39 rip

16th april 89
hillsborough 96 rip

Roo69
15/04/2005, 4:19 PM
Ok i hit the 6 instead of the 15th fair enough can't all be perfect look good luck to you we all have our opinions i just think on the anniversary of HillsbOROUGH you could have held off on your Heysel thread thats how i think your being disrespectful to the 96 who died.


Dig up Rafa, Dig up ! you hit the "6" key twice by "mistake" :D

Sounds like you want everyone to forget about Heysel because of what happened in Hillsborough. Wrong way to be looking at things.

jockser
15/04/2005, 4:20 PM
enough

KK77
15/04/2005, 4:26 PM
Dig up Rafa, Dig up ! you hit the "6" key twice by "mistake" :D

Sounds like you want everyone to forget about Heysel because of what happened in Hillsborough. Wrong way to be looking at things.


Thats why i have agreed with you on everything you said about Heysel thats why i have a Heysel wristband in memory of them. Wrong way to be reading things.

I know exactly when Hillsborogh was typing mistake doesn't mean i don't.

KK77
15/04/2005, 4:29 PM
enough


Here here Jockser listen i didn't want to cause anyone offence i just take exception when someone starts going on about Heysel the day of the hillsborough anniversary but then again they probably knew no one involved in the disasters. Do people mention or put post up about Hillsborough on MAY 29TH no they respect the 39 anway as you said ENOUGH

stojkovic
15/04/2005, 4:40 PM
Sorry I started all this. :(

PS I heard Inter only got a six match behind closed doors ban - two suspended.

Waddya say about that there Roo69.

Roo69
15/04/2005, 4:46 PM
Sorry I started all this. :(

PS I heard Inter only got a six match behind closed doors ban - two suspended.

Waddya say about that there Roo69.

6 matches and a fine (http://www.uefa.com/competitions/UCL/news/Kind=1/newsId=295903.html)

Not sure if the sentence is harsh enough

Roo69
15/04/2005, 4:49 PM
Here here Jockser listen i didn't want to cause anyone offence i just take exception when someone starts going on about Heysel the day of the hillsborough anniversary but then again they probably knew no one involved in the disasters. Do people mention or put post up about Hillsborough on MAY 29TH no they respect the 39 anway as you said ENOUGH

Today is the 15th of April for the last time !!!!!!! You are talking about tomorrow.

No i don't know anyone involved in it but i still respect the fact that it happend and have sympathy's for everyone who was involved in it.

The subject was brought up because of the programme on last night, the same way i'm sure it will be when they show a programme about Hillsbourgh

KK77
15/04/2005, 4:55 PM
Today is the 15th of April for the last time !!!!!!! You are talking about tomorrow.

No i don't know anyone involved in it but i still respect the fact that it happend and have sympathy's for everyone who was involved in it.

The subject was brought up because of the programme on last night, the same way i'm sure it will be when they show a programme about Hillsbourgh


Ok fair enough sorry the only reason i got annoyed was i thought it odd that regardless of the programme last night you posted it today with it being the 16th anniversary of Hillsborough when you could have brought it up over the last few weeks since the draw was made and it was given full media coverage anyway no point in us arguing over it were both Wanderers fans!!!!!!!

4tothefloor
15/04/2005, 11:30 PM
I'm a Liverpool fan but I have no problem in admitting that Heysel was shameful. The programme last night was the first time that I saw video coverage of what happened, and it was truely shocking. Having seen it, I can understand completely the attitude of the Juve fans. Regarding the flag that made a reference to hillsborough 'God exists', what happened that night makes you think 'If what goes around comes around, was hillsborough it'? As it said in the documentary, it took a tragedy similar to Heysel to happen to their own before the English acted.

I think now that this 'amicizia' stuff was a load of bullsh1t really. It looks shallow and too conveniently choreographed to me. Leaves a bad taste in the mouth. This stuff should have been done years ago, not just thrown together when the two sides were finally drawn against each other in europe. I was disgusted and horrified last night watching the scenes of the Juve fans being crushed. What disgusts me even more is that Heysel seems to have been swept under the carpet and forgotton by Liverpool FC, until now when they were forced to face it head on. At the same time, the club champions the cause of the hillsborough victims, and rightly so. But why is Heysel forgotton and Hillsborough not? Especially when Heysel was caused by Liverpool fans? It smacks of hypocrisy and selective memory to me. There isn't even a memorial to it at Anfield. Maybe it's out of shame?

Having said all that, I don't think that this would have happened had it been held in an appropriate stadium. Had there been proper segregation and not just chicken wire fencing, the running and subsequent crush wouldn't have been possible. The Italians were not holier than thou in all of this either. They were actually the ones who engaged the Liverpool fans initially, by goading, throwing things and spitting. They also threw missiles, debris and bricks at Liverpool players. Naturally, the Liverpool fans retaliated. I don't accept for one second though that these Liverpool fans wanted to kill anybody, let alone 39 fans. I don't think they realised the crush they were causing on the other side. They were being spat on and abused by Italian fans, and when they broke through to confront them, the Italians just ran. The Liverpool fans would have expected a confrontation, but all that happened was the Italians ran back and crushed everyone behind them.

Finally, it wasn't just Liverpool fans who charged the Italians. There were hooligans attached to other clubs present in the crowd that attacked the Italians. This is a fact, not a myth. There is pictorial evidence in some publications to back this up, including Steven Kellys 'Official History of Liverpool FC'. Watching the documentary, English shirted fans could clearly be seen. Liverpool fans never wore English replica shirts to Liverpool games. It is well known that the English national team has always had little support on merseyside. Scousers don't and never have identified themselves as English. They identify themselves as Liverpudlians, as scousers. English replica shirted Liverpool fans? Yeah right! Londoners more like. The following is taken from the Heysel site linked to earlier in the thread. It's an Italian site. "After the events in Rome, club rivalries in England had been put aside: Juventus were to catch the full fury of the English hooligan elite. It should be understood that not just Liverpool hooligans were present. There were contingents from a great many firms all over the country, from Luton MIGS to Millwall Bushwackers, West Ham ICF and Newcastle Toon Army"

What happened was a tragedy, but the reality is that the fans of both sides, UEFA, and the various Belgian authorities were all to blame in some way or another.