Stephen Carr last night

[drummerboy]

Watched the Sporting v Newcastle 2nd leg UEFA cup last night. Stephen Carr gifted them the 4th goal, dreadful mistake. He was also at fault for another goal. He crossing was very poor. Compared to Finnan the previous night, Carr has fallen well behind the Liverpool player. Andy O’Brien came on as a 2nd substitute but looked really edgy. Although he has been excellent for Ireland, his confidence has been badly shaken and one wonders is it only a matter of time before his lack of confidence at club level trancends to his international career. Is it time to bring in Dunne.

[Dawn_Run]

Aye - have to agree, bad night for both Carr and O Brien. On a plus note - Given made some great saves!

[fosterdollar]

Given must be appalled at the state of his back four. I could be wrong, but were they one-nil up before Andy O'Brien came on...?

[PaulB]

Andy O'Brien came on in the 2nd Half. Carr was useless, gave away so many free kicks in dandgerous positions..

[Dublin12]

Carr has been an accident waiting to happen for a while,just glad it wasn't in a green shirt,hopefully this will comfirm to Brian Kerr that the right back slot belongs to Steve Finnan and noboby else.

[Stuttgart88]

Thankfully I expect Finnan will keep that position until Kerr is forced to make a change. That seems to be the way he operates. People are critical of O'Shea at the moment but on current form Carr is the bigger risk IMO.

Using the same logic, I can't see Kerr replacing O'Brien with Dunne until injury or suspension forces his hand.

[stojkovic]

Carr has been an accident waiting to happen for a while,just glad it wasn't in a green shirt,hopefully this will comfirm to Brian Kerr that the right back slot belongs to Steve Finnan and noboby else.
Will Kerr have to balls to drop him.
Finnan will play there v Israel but what about the game after.
Finnan has to start.
I would say he is the best RF in the Prem at the mo and will probably be named in the Prem team of the year.

[Reality Bites]

He awful last night, but has been awful for sometime, he is livin of a reputation at this stage, and sadly Kerr has bought into this also, his preformance was truly awful against the Swiss in October and he was equally poor against Israel, Kerr needs a wake up call quickly on this one, on a separate note Andy O'Brien is a poor player and the only reason he shines for Ireland is because of the Brillant Cunningham. Wake - up and smell the coffee Finnan and Dunne are streets ahead of O'Brien and Calamity Carr..Nuff said

[NeilMcD]

Yeah Carr had a shocker last night and he has been pretty poor for Ireland too with the exception of the France away game. Finnan is a better option now and with Reid and Right midfield that will be the team against Israel and should also continue against the Faroes. To be fair to O Brien he has been excellent for Ireland and I think that Cunningham brings out the best in him. If newcastle dont keep O brien he should go somewhere , were he has an experience centre back beside him who is a talker. At Newcastle there are too many quiet inexperience centre back. Play that position is all about a partnership and O Brien looks best with Cunningham.

[Condex]

Carr was very poor last night, was all over the place at times its time to given either Finnan(can play on the left) or Kelly his place.

O'Brien is off-form and way down the pecking order at Newcastle, need to change clubs. I think its time Kerr gave Dunne his chance he has been regularly man of the match for City this season.

[eirebhoy]

He awful last night, but has been awful for sometime, he is livin of a reputation at this stage
He has been crap more often than not for the past 6 months but before that he was fine. You don't just lose it overnight and he was excellent for a couple of years after he came back from injury. He is not living on his rep, just going through a weirdly long bad spell. Anyway, Finnan has overtaken him and that will remain so until Finnan loses it himself.

[Dublin12]

I blame Sourness.

[Stuttgart88]

I actually thought Carr had been doing well at Newcastle recently, up until we played Israel. During their 8 match winning run he was looking like the Carr of old.

[Stuttgart88]

Yeah Carr had a shocker last night and he has been pretty poor for Ireland too with the exception of the France away game. Finnan is a better option now and with Reid and Right midfield that will be the team against Israel and should also continue against the Faroes. To be fair to O Brien he has been excellent for Ireland and I think that Cunningham brings out the best in him. If newcastle dont keep O brien he should go somewhere , were he has an experience centre back beside him who is a talker. At Newcastle there are too many quiet inexperience centre back. Play that position is all about a partnership and O Brien looks best with Cunningham.

It's no coincidence that all of Cunningham's partners impress at CB, but don't look so good when he's not there: Breen, O'Brien, Upson...

[drummerboy]

When Carr was injured before some surgeons deemed that his career was over. However he went to the States for a last gasp attempt to save his career. It worked to an extent but he is not the same player and is only just one heavy tackle away from retirement. Surprised Newcastle shelled money out on him. Its hard to feel sorry for the guy who always seems to have a very cantancarous demeanour.

[Junior]

He has been crap more often than not for the past 6 months but before that he was fine.

Jaysus 6 months? cast your mind back to Basel the first time around, woeful in that game and hasn't been much better since.

Don't think Finnan can do much more to deserve a chance ahead of him. Carr has the added advantage of playing with Given week in week out but I'd still have Finnan in ahead of him now.

[holidaysong]

Great left handed save by Given in first half!

It was 1-1 when O'Brien came on.. Newcastle fell to pieces when Dyer went off injured.

[eirebhoy]

Jaysus 6 months? cast your mind back to Basel the first time around
C'mon, one game. He still holds 3 assists for us under Kerr and has yet to cost us a goal under him if my memory serves me right. Take away the last 6 months and he has been superb for us. If you are going to go on one game than all our players are crap.

[livehead1]

I actually thought Carr had been doing well at Newcastle recently, up until we played Israel. During their 8 match winning run he was looking like the Carr of old.

i second that, i was readin like the reviews of player performances of carr on the planetfootball.com and over the past few weeks they have been saying looking good, back to his best, good going forward, solid and things of the sort. he'll be sound, hes never let ireland down and always trys his best,

[thejollyrodger]

Carr's form in the last few years has plumeted. I dont know how anyone rates him now. He makes quite a few **** ups each game now :rolleyes:

[eirebhoy]

thejollyrodger - The king of first impressions...

[Junior]

C'mon, one game. He still holds 3 assists for us under Kerr and has yet to cost us a goal under him if my memory serves me right. Take away the last 6 months and he has been superb for us. If you are going to go on one game than all our players are crap.

It was the basel game and since then I was referring to. If you think he's an international class full back then thats your opinion. I don't and I also think we have a better option in Finnan at present.

I don't have any stats to back up my opinion but I can safely say that I haven't come away from an Ireland game in the last 2 years saying "jaysus Carr had a great game"

[eirebhoy]

It was the basel game and since then I was referring to. If you think he's an international class full back then thats your opinion. I don't and I also think we have a better option in Finnan at present.

I don't have any stats to back up my opinion but I can safely say that I haven't come away from an Ireland game in the last 2 years saying "jaysus Carr had a great game"
I would have said something along those lines after the away match in Georgia. I can't remember the last time I've said that about any full back for Ireland anyway. I agree with you btw, I'd prefer Finnan atm. Carr is going through a very inconsistent spell atm but when Carr is at his best he's the better of the two.

[eirebhoy]

There's a big difference between Carr and Harte. Carr can be great one day and crap the next. Harte rarely played well post 2001. I mean this is a post from only last week in the Quarter finals of the UEFA cup:
http://foot.ie/showpost.php?p=250345&postcount=6

[FarBeag]

I agree with Eirebhoy here.Harte is or was never as good as Carr.I also think it's a little unfair to call for his head because of his inconsistancy but his error against Sporting in the second leg was unforgiveable.Prior to this he has been steady enough.He was the man of the match in the first leg at St James and did well against Spurs last week.We have a couple of months until we play Israel so we can continue to assess his performances till then starting against Man u tomorrow.If he continues to F up then drop him but i don't think he will ever make a mistake like the one the other night well i hope so anyway.

[CollegeTillIDie]

Poor Old Carrsey has the defensive qualities of Ian Harte or Danny Mills :eek:

[eirebhoy]

Such a fickle bunch we are. :) Honestly though, people really shouldn't be so quick to change your views on players.

[eirebhoy]

The next possible game that Carr can play in is the Faroes. Considering how quick people change their minds on a player that is a lot of time for the manager and fans to decide who should be at right back. As I said, atm Finnan has it but we shouldn't make our mind up 2 months in advance as he'll probably be everyones favourite player by then. :rolleyes:

[ken foree]

while i agree there are two types of fan, fickle and not, carr was a bit **** yesterday no? very poor i thought for the final (ronaldo) goal, sort've just watched with arm up for offside. third goal was calamitous as well from a newcy point of view. understand newcastle were pushing for a goal, yes yes. but for the fourth it was a rudimentary (ball watching) error i doubt finnan woulda committed. i like carr along with all of ireland's players but a spade is a spade in this case and he seems off-form.

how was kelly against liverpool?

[paul_oshea]

i could be completely wrong but i think that carr is disheartened ( he should have stayed with spurs ), he realises that newcastle arent going anywehre under souness and maybe he just isnt as dedicated as before.

[eirebhoy]

while i agree there are two types of fan, fickle and not, carr was a bit **** yesterday no? very poor i thought for the final (ronaldo) goal, sort've just watched with arm up for offside. third goal was calamitous as well from a newcy point of view. understand newcastle were pushing for a goal, yes yes. but for the fourth it was a rudimentary (ball watching) error i doubt finnan woulda committed. i like carr along with all of ireland's players but a spade is a spade in this case and he seems off-form.

how was kelly against liverpool?
Decent post. At least you point out that its his form.

Tuff Paddy doesn't like Carr because he wouldn't say hello to him after a match. aww. :)

[shelbourne1904]

I was amazed after Finnans brilliant Japanese WC performance that Carr still got back in and Finnan was the one who was moved around.Brian Kerr got it wrong,Carr has not recovered his performance ratings since injury,add that disaster V. United.Finnan is way better at RB.Id say Spurs are laughing all the way to the Bank,as they also knew how good Stephen Kelly looks like he will be.Another in the long line of bad Newcastle defenders,Irish or otherwise.We are also in serious trouble at Left Back .I hope we can score our way out of the group!!!!

[onenilgameover]

Just watched MOTD Carr at fault for Norwich's winner...I'd be worried if he was availiable for the Israeli game...

[eirebhoy]

Just watched MOTD Carr at fault for Norwich's winner...I'd be worried if he was availiable for the Israeli game...
I watched MOTD too and a striker 5 inches taller (Carr 5'9. Ashton 6'2) Carr beat him to a header outside the box. Carr - right back, Ashton centre forward. Doesn't make sense that Carr was the man marking him in open play anyway. He actually had a good game last night from what I've read.

BTW, how did you make out that Carr was at fault for the goal? :) Do strikers ever get a free header on a ball? In 90% of headed goals there's a defender going up with him. The thing is, the defender isn't usually a head smaller than him.

[onenilgameover]

I watched MOTD too and a striker 5 inches taller (Carr 5'9. Ashton 6'2) Carr beat him to a header outside the box. Carr - right back, Ashton centre forward. Doesn't make sense that Carr was the man marking him in open play anyway. He actually had a good game last night from what I've read.

BTW, how did you make out that Carr was at fault for the goal? :) Do strikers ever get a free header on a ball? In 90% of headed goals there's a defender going up with him. The thing is, the defender isn't usually a head smaller than him.

He backed off the defender far to much and was jumping while going backwards or at least while his momentum was making him back peadal. I suppose you could say he was a fault for the goal because he is too small but this is just another insatnce in a line of many recently that makes me worry about him.

[Karlos]

I don't believe it was Carr's fault for the goal. Firstly it was a magnificent ball by Helveg who should possibly have been closed down quicker or shown down the line. Secondly it was magnificent forward play by Ashton to lose his marker Boumsong and pull himself inbetween him and Carr who he has a distinct height advantage over and boy what a header he produced to put it away.

It pains me that there seems to be no credit for good attacking play anymore, just negatives on poor defensive play. It was a magnificent piece of forward attacking play by Ashton and a great finish - if it had been Shearer, Ruud or henry we'd be raving about it!

[silentbob]

ok leaving the his playing good/his playing bad argument aside, does anyone else think he has put on about a stone and a half since he left spurs? or maybe the newcastle jerseys are just a tighter fit......

[Karlos]

ok leaving the his playing good/his playing bad argument aside, does anyone else think he has put on about a stone and a half since he left spurs? or maybe the newcastle jerseys are just a tighter fit......

Could there be anything tighter than the Spud's kappa kit? :D

Doesn't exactly flatter Andy Reid never mind the Totteringham fans!! :D

[Stuttgart88]

Carr has defintely been off his best, though in the weeks prior to the Israel game - when Newcastle were on a good run - I thought he was playing very well. In a way that made his Israel performance doubly disappointing.

I think Carr's recent performances just reflect the overall crapness of Newcsatle's performances though. I don't think it's that much of a worry really. Finnan will start against Israel and hopefully he'll keep that place. But Carr is pretty good back-up if you ask me. I also think he's one of these players that plays best against good teams.

I'm more worried about O'Brien. Although he's been fine for us and even though Kerr only seems to change things when necessary I really would prefer to see Dunne in the team now.

[Tired&Emotional]

[
I'm more worried about O'Brien. Although he's been fine for us and even though Kerr only seems to change things when necessary I really would prefer to see Dunne in the team now.[/QUOTE]

Got to agree with that.. and with the Honey Monster scoring last night as well, he's seems the better option to O'Brien who isn't paying at his best for Newcastle. Has to be said though, O'Brien has played better when he puts the Green jersey on... :confused:

[eirebhoy]

He backed off the defender far to much and was jumping while going backwards or at least while his momentum was making him back peadal.
There was absolutely no way Carr was at fault for either goal last night. If Cafu was at right back for Newcastle last night they would have conceded those two goals. It seems people are just looking for reasons to slate Carr now. On a good note, Carr did well getting forward last night. Robert really should have scored after Carr played a one-two with Milner and crossed it in. :)


O'Brien has played better when he puts the Green jersey on... :confused:
Kenny Cunningham... :) Boumsong is not an organisor. Its very rare that you get good a central defensive partnership without an organisor. O'Brien needs to be told where to move, how far forward to stay, etc.

[Tired&Emotional]

[Kenny Cunningham... :) Boumsong is not an organisor. Its very rare that you get good a central defensive partnership without an organisor. O'Brien needs to be told where to move, how far forward to stay, etc.[/QUOTE]


Fair point...it's the partnership that's more important :)

[tetsujin1979]

Souness is supposed to be looking to sign Huth next season, if he does, O'Brien would be better off moving, Souness has already shown he prefers Bramble to him.

[Tired&Emotional]

Souness is supposed to be looking to sign Huth next season, if he does, O'Brien would be better off moving, Souness has already shown he prefers Bramble to him.


If that's the case he would be better off moving...but who will take him? Maybe "Muppet Man" could take him to partner Gary "dream team" Breen...now there's a solid defensive partnership ! :) Maybe I'm being a bit harsh there but you've got to hand it to Souness he really knows how to fcuk up a team....Bramble??! Whatever about any misgivings about O'Brien don't rate Bramble at all ......Shearer must be sick! :D :D Though Huth wouldn't be too bad a signing

[Stuttgart88]

I read this morning that Carr played very well in right-midfield against MUFC yesterday. Anyone got any comment?

How did O'Brien do? I read that he made a great tackle on Smith, or rather it would have been in a rugby match.

MUFC had so many injuries yet neither O'Shea nor Miller figured. Writing on the wall time?

[Stuttgart88]

Stephen Carr played RHM for Newcastle against 'boro last night.

This is what The Guardian said about him:

Even before Dyer hobbled off, Newcastle's potential for creativity was limited. Stephen Carr was used in midfield to protect the back four and was a competent performer in an unusual role. But no one has ever accused the Irishman of being Zinedine Zidane and as the game unfolded drably it was clear that Carr was not going to change its direction.

[livehead1]

ye just typical bias, no1 could ever say claude makelele was zinedine zidane yet he performs a vital holding role.
the sun gave carr man of the match saying he performed a vital role in breaking up boro attacks and his distribution was good. mentioned o'brien was sound as well

[McCanada]

Sadly, I watched this game yesterday...An absolute waste of 2 hours, but I viewed to the bitter, boring end. Carr played the Roy Keane role, if you will. He was clearly under orders not to bomb forward much, and stayed at home to good effect. Given was solid, but had nothing to do, while Andy O' was caught out badly once, but went unpunished by JF F'N Hasselbaink. I have seen O'Brien do well for Ireland (as has Dunne), but when I see him for Newcastle, he seems to do one of three things - make a horrible misjudgement, break his nose going for a header, or give away a penalty (or provide a pretty good shout for one). I hope he doesn't let down the boys in green when the time comes!