Rugby 2019

[OwlsFan]

Funny (well not really) seeing England doing to us what we sometime do to them i.e. raising their game and catching the so-called better team flat-footed. Rugby is one of those games where is you don't go at it hammer and tong, you can get caught on the back foot and not recover. Traditionally Irish rugby has done reasonably well when the team is considered the underdog and it raises its game and has lost out, especially in World Cups, when playing teams it should beat and don't raise the game to the required level (I remember an era when Ireland couldn't beat Scotland for love nor money). England arrived as underdogs, raised its game and had Ireland on the back foot for most of the game. Pity. I love seeing Eddie Jones' teams losing.

Tough tournament ahead. An improving Scotland next weekend. A massive French pack, Wales away.

I am not a huge rugby fan but I do like the six nations. Despite world cups, Heineken Cups etc. and being on every year, it still captures all the media attention because of tradition and national rivalries.

[OwlsFan]

Do the rugger bug+ers not have any songs of their own ? Ole ole ole,Fields of Athenry (I appreciate that we don't own the copyright on this) and Come on You Boys in Green ? I await hearing an exclusive rugger song. I went to CUS in Leeson Street and we had this masterpiece:

Aka laka ching,
aka laka cho,
aka laka ching ching
cho cho cho
Boomeranga, boomeranga
rah rah rah
CUS-A, CUS-A
rah rah rah
C _ U _ S !!

Brilliant eh? I expect to hear it any day on the TV at a rugger match.

Mind you Dublin GAA isn't much better. Come on you boys in blue.

[OwlsFan]

That's what happens when all the media talk is about the quarter final. Will they ever learn? Probably not.

[CraftyToePoke]

Anyone else think its hilarious ?

Japan.

[Real ale Madrid]

If Japan can back that up they will be more than a match for Scotland and then South Africa. I wouldn't be writing us off yet.

[Stuttgart88]

Do the rugger bug+ers not have any songs of their own ? Ole ole ole,Fields of Athenry (I appreciate that we don't own the copyright on this) and Come on You Boys in Green ? I await hearing an exclusive rugger song. I went to CUS in Leeson Street and we had this masterpiece:

Aka laka ching,
aka laka cho,
aka laka ching ching
cho cho cho
Boomeranga, boomeranga
rah rah rah
CUS-A, CUS-A
rah rah rah
C _ U _ S !!

Brilliant eh? I expect to hear it any day on the TV at a rugger match.

Mind you Dublin GAA isn't much better. Come on you boys in blue.Molly Malone was the big South Terrace rugby song when I was growing up.

[NeverFeltBetter]

With some personal experience of Japan, and from friends who live there, surprised there was no plans in place for typhoon disruption. This one is bigger than normal, but it isn't unprecedented. Is it odd to think that should have had a plan b prepared?

Think Parisse is dead right when he says the game would have gone ahead if NZ needed a win.

[Stuttgart88]

I just hope there's a riot!

[osarusan]

Ridiculous that games are just being cancelled. Fly the teams to Sapporo and play there.

Yes, there would be problems with transport and capacity issues, but playing them somewhere, anywhere, even on a bloody school pitch, is better than not playing them at all.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Any similar situation in the history of the FIFA World Cup? They've never postponed a game right?

[tetsujin1979]

Did some research on the Rugby World Cup.

If we take it that the Tier 1 countries in rugby are the teams from the Six Nations and the Rugby Championship*, and Tier 2 countries are everyone else, it means that there's been 184 games contested between one country from each Tier (e.g, Australia V Fiji, Wales V Nigeria, etc).

Tier 2 teams have won 11 of these in total, including Japan's win over Ireland, averaging 1.37 wins per tournament.
In the 24 games between the tiers in the 2003 World Cup, there were no wins for a Tier 2 side.
There has never been more than two wins for Tier 2 sides in any tournament, and there hasn't been two wins in a single tournament since 1999.

Remember this when World Rugby talk about spreading the game

* I'm not sure if Italy and Argentina were considered Tier 1 sides in the early World Cup tournaments, but I assumed they were for the purposes of this

[Real ale Madrid]

Argentina joined the tri nation's to make it a 4 nation competition in 2012. Italy joined the 6N in 2000.

Rugby has become very lopsided since professionalism.
Canada made it into the QF's in one of the early world cups. Namibia - whipping boys nowadays actually beat Ireland 2-0 in a test series in the late 80s. Samoa were a decent team in the early 90s as well. I think to be fair to world rugby they are trying to fund developing nation's but it's tough. Countries like Ireland and Scotland will never vote for promotion / relegation from the 6N as they rely on it to fund the professional game. But I think they are making strides in general. Japan are on the cusp of tier 1. USA are developing a professional league. Georgia have been performing very well at u20 level. It's a slow process.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Japan are fun to watch, but Scotland kept doing the same thing Ireland did: kicking the ball away and looking shocked when Japan didn't kick it right back. I presume this possession heavy running game will come unstuck at some point, but it's much easier on the eyes than some other teams.

[osarusan]

Japan rely on quick ball from the breakdown and actually don't commit huge numbers to the ruck because they want to have the numbers outside ready to run. They are actually vulnerable to being turned over if they can't get the ball out quickly, because they are slow to secure it once it becomes slow. Scotland turned them over like this a few times, and I'm sure SA will be targeting it.

It's a super brand of rugby to watch though.

[tetsujin1979]

There's been four victories against a team who failed to score in this World Cup - Scotland 34-0 Samoa, Ireland 35-0 Russia, Scotland 61-0 Russia & New Zealand 63-0 Canada - the second time in the history of the world cup, and the first time that's happened since the 2007 tournament

[NeverFeltBetter]

On that, the phrase I have heard way too much watching group stage matches was "The scoreline is not reflective of the game", which generally means Namibia/Uruguay/pick a Pacific team kept up with the Tier One opponent for 50 minutes then flat-lined, as if the last half-hour shouldn't count. Japan's success is masking the general lack of competitiveness from half of the country's involved.

[tetsujin1979]

I'd forgotten that South Africa beat England 36-0 in 2007. When I saw it in the list of victories, I thought I'd made a mistake!

[Stuttgart88]

I'd forgotten that South Africa beat England 36-0 in 2007. When I saw it in the list of victories, I thought I'd made a mistake!Yep, but the final was a far closer affair. England literally an inch from taking a late lead in the match, the famous foot-in-touch when the VAR system failed to function properly.

[Real ale Madrid]

Average Score , worst result by Competition since 2003:

2003: 13-58 (-45) | 142-0
2007: 12-51 (-39) | 108-13
2011: 10-48 (-38) | 87-0
2015: 13-44 (-31) | 64-0
2019: 11-41 (-30) | 63-0

Some good anaysis by Tier 2 rugby on twitter:

Here:
https://twitter.com/T2Rugby/status/1183416027931168768

[NeverFeltBetter]

Interesting stat from that account, that the amount of points conceded by Tier 2 sides per World Cup is steadily decreasing, but the amount of points they score is generally consistent from tournament to tournament. So, they're better at shutting down Tier 1 sides and stopping them from running rampant (relatively speaking), but can't score at the other end.

[pineapple stu]

Depending on how many games are included, then the top hammering could actually account for the whole decrease.

If there's 5 games - and I don't know what the sample is - then going from 142-0 to 63-0 in one game reduce the 2003 average from -45 to -29. Then in 2007, reducing one game from 108-13 to 63-0 reduces the average defeat margin from -39 to -30. In 2011, 87-0 to 63-0 over 5 games reduces the margin from -38 to -33.

So in that case - and again, there's probably more than 5 games involved - it'd just be one hammering reducing, and everything else staying the same. Even if there's 15 games, it would account for a good chunk of the reduction.

Is there a Tier 3 at all? Or is Tier 2 everyone from Japan to Russia?

[Real ale Madrid]

24 Tier 1 v Tier 2 games in the current 20 team format. It's not an exact science but shows a general trend - not much movement in last 4 years.

The 10 teams in the six nations / Rugby Championship are considered Tier 1 - the rest are considered Tier 2 but that’s really more for discussion purposes as only the top 10 teams in the world get regular guaranteed competition against other Tier 1 nations - World Rugby doesn't classify teams as such AFAIK.

[pineapple stu]

Ok, 24 is a lot more than I'd have thought. So getting rid of the absolute whippings will help, but it's a valid trend overall. Albeit, as noted, one that indicates little more than better defensive organisation

[NeverFeltBetter]

The knives out yesterday and this morning. Ireland were shocking, even if New Zealand were their usual selves. It was rather like that English game in the 6N this year I thought, in that the Irish were bullied from the moment the game began, and never recovered.

Wales/France was a great watch I thought. Crazy elbow for the red, and it was nice and tense up to the end. Wales got away with it.

[NeverFeltBetter]

England showed the All Blacks up. It can be done.

[Stuttgart88]

Totally comprehensive too. Well deserved.

[MKMK]

Surely Munster have the rights to field of Athenry

[OwlsFan]

First away win in New Zealand in over 100 years apparently. Well not quite as Ireland only first played in New Zealand in 1976 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_rugby_union_matches_between_Ireland_and _New_Zealand Still, a victory worth recording.

[tetsujin1979]

From winning none of the first 22, to four wins from the last seven game.
Still haven't won two games in a row against them, and it's rare enough that New Zealand lose two games in a row, so a win on Saturday would be bigger IMO
Big psychological victory ahead of probably facing them in the second round of the world cup next year too.

[D24Saint]

Some win this morning.

[SkStu]

Some win at 3am over here! Unreal performance. Thought we were going to throw it away but the spirit and quality in the last 15 minutes was incredible. That defence was at times unbelievable. Amazing performance. Historic achievement.

[seanfhear]

There’s only One Johnny Sexton.

[OwlsFan]

Some win at 3am over here! Unreal performance. Thought we were going to throw it away but the spirit and quality in the last 15 minutes was incredible. That defence was at times unbelievable. Amazing performance. Historic achievement.

I thought it was the kiss of death from Rob Kearney when he said at half time, he expected more of the same in the second half! It was always going to be who got the next score and as it happens NZ got the next three tries but fair dues to this team they struck back when previous Irish teams might have folded.