2021 UEFA European Under-21 Championships

[DeLorean]

Tough looking qualification draw for Kenny & co. this morning - https://www.uefa.com/under21/season=2019/draws/nextseason/?iv=true


Group 1

Italy
Sweden
Iceland
Republic of Ireland
Armenia
Luxembourg

One qualifies automatically and only two runners-up (from nine groups) make the playoff.
2021 UEFA Under-21 Championship (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_UEFA_European_Under-21_Championship)
2021 UEFA Under-21 Championship Qualification (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_UEFA_European_Under-21_Championship_qualification)
2021 UEFA Under-21 Championship Qualification Group 1 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_UEFA_European_Under-21_Championship_qualification_Group_1)

[jbyrne]

I read this morning that he will be gone to the senior role before the last 2 u21 qualifiers. madness if true.
mick should have 2 campaigns with Kenny to take over only then. 18 months is too little time to make any real difference

[DeLorean]

It's true alright, It was fairly well documented at the time. Delaney was even questioned about it.

[geysir]

There are two countries already qualified as co-hosts in this 12 team tournament. That seems a waste of a good play off spot. One host is more than enough to cater for a tournament of this size.

[liamoo11]

Tough looking qualification draw for Kenny & co. this morning - https://www.uefa.com/under21/season=2019/draws/nextseason/?iv=true



One qualifies automatically and only two runners-up (from nine groups) make the playoff.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_UEFA_European_Under-21_Championship_qualification

I wonder will Johansson line up for Luxemburg in the first game against us? Will be a test for Kenny to get him on board to avoid negative publicity around Johansson not been impressed enough with the 21 set up that he would stick with Luxemburg

[Paddy Garcia]

I wonder will Johansson line up for Luxemburg in the first game against us? Will be a test for Kenny to get him on board to avoid negative publicity around Johansson not been impressed enough with the 21 set up that he would stick with Luxemburg

Agree- first leadership challenge. Opportunity to set down a marker. Luxembourg over us will be an terrible indictment.

[liamoo11]

Agree- first leadership challenge. Opportunity to set down a marker. Luxembourg over us will be an terrible indictment.

Definitely and with Sweden in the group as well it brings his decision into clear focus.

[geysir]

Tough looking qualification draw for Kenny & co. this morning - https://www.uefa.com/under21/season=2019/draws/nextseason/?iv=true



One qualifies automatically and only two runners-up (from nine groups) make the playoff.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_UEFA_European_Under-21_Championship_qualification
Whe are you going to correct that clanger?
Slipshod at best :)

[Charlie Darwin]

I wonder will Johansson line up for Luxemburg in the first game against us? Will be a test for Kenny to get him on board to avoid negative publicity around Johansson not been impressed enough with the 21 set up that he would stick with Luxemburg
He could play with Sweden either. He seemed to only be brought into the 19s for a look around so hopefully he saw enough with Tom Mohan to see a future with us.

[Charlie Darwin]

Whe are you going to correct that clanger?
Slipshod at best :)
He's right though, isn't he? The two hosts and nine group winners qualify automatically. The two best-placed runners-up play off for the final place?

[tetsujin1979]

He could play with Sweden either. He seemed to only be brought into the 19s for a look around so hopefully he saw enough with Tom Mohan to see a future with us.
He'd still be eligible for the under 19s for the 2020 championship, assuming he hasn't played for the Luxembourg senior team by then. It's for players born on or after 1st January 2001, his birthday is 15th February 2001

[DeLorean]

Whe are you going to correct that clanger?
Slipshod at best :)

One qualifies automatically 'from each group' maybe?

[liamoo11]

The media have portrayed this as an impossible task. The reality of course is that the players he will be picking come from the last three under 19 groups(including current 19s group). These players at 19 s in competitive games have beaten Belgium, Italy, Serbia,holland and Bosnia amongst others and in friendlies(i call them test matches) have beaten Portugal, Austria, czechs and romania amongst others. Really hope this isn't the start of Stephen Kenny getting an easy ride from the media. This 21s group regardless of who manages should be in the running the whole way to the end to top the group based on the previous results of these players at 19s across three seasons

[Olé Olé]

The media have portrayed this as an impossible task. The reality of course is that the players he will be picking come from the last three under 19 groups(including current 19s group). These players at 19 s in competitive games have beaten Belgium, Italy, Serbia,holland and Bosnia amongst others and in friendlies(i call them test matches) have beaten Portugal, Austria, czechs and romania amongst others. Really hope this isn't the start of Stephen Kenny getting an easy ride from the media. This 21s group regardless of who manages should be in the running the whole way to the end to top the group based on the previous results of these players at 19s across three seasons

Good point. And if Noel King were in charge he'd be picking the biggest sh*thouses in League One and Two who were supporting England at the World Cup but have an Irish granny.

[liamoo11]

Good point. And if Noel King were in charge he'd be picking the biggest sh*thouses in League One and Two who were supporting England at the World Cup but have an Irish granny.

Kenny has a group now consisting of three seasons of 19s who each qualified for the elite group stage of qualyfing. King never had that consistency of success across three separate groups at 19s progressing to the 21s. These high standards achieved at 19s over the last three seasons need to result in an expectation for success at 21s. Slot of Kenny cheerleaders floating around in the media who needvto realise that finishing anywhere below second in this group would be utter failure given the spread of success and quality of these three groups at 19s level

[ifk101]

Kenny has a group now consisting of three seasons of 19s who each qualified for the elite group stage of qualyfing. King never had that consistency of success across three separate groups at 19s progressing to the 21s. These high standards achieved at 19s over the last three seasons need to result in an expectation for success at 21s. Slot of Kenny cheerleaders floating around in the media who needvto realise that finishing anywhere below second in this group would be utter failure given the spread of success and quality of these three groups at 19s level

Qualification for the elite stage should be a near given every year for the under 19s, no? Means nothing for the u21s.

[liamoo11]

Qualification for the elite stage should be a near given every year for the under 19s, no? Means nothing for the u21s.

Maybe it should but the group of 19 s in 2016 that should have been the backbone of Noel kings 21s this time around didn't achieve it with doolin managing them but nobody was cutting Noel king slack around the 21s results. Sweden haven't made the elite round this season and Iceland have not qualified for the elite phase for any Of The three under 19 seasons that will count for this 21 campaign. So what means nothing for the 21s is your seeding which is based on historical 21s results with no relevance to this actual group.we have absolutely outperformed Iceland for the last 3 yrs at 19s so in no way should the media be portraying that if we finish ahead of them Kenny has done a great job by outperming our seeding. Same goes for Sweden we have the better spread of success at 19 s over three season with 3 elite phases compared to their 2 and the media need to make this clear. Success here is 1st or 2nd and given the fact that we have tied ourselves into Kenny as senior manager the media should make that target explicit.

[Kingdom]

Qualification for the elite stage should be a near given every year for the under 19s, no? Means nothing for the u21s.

Nope. A specifically good batch of 17s, or conversely, a specifically bad batch, can sway the seeding of a country. I think the previous campaign carries 40%, the previous to that carries 40% and the previous to that 20%.

Probably doesn't make much difference to a country that is highly ranked continuously, but for a mid-rank side, a serious good campaign can have ramifications for the next couple of groups.

Also for a long time, the 17s and 19s had only two pots for initial qualifying. Generally speaking we make it to the Elite stage.

Liamoo is the man to ask though. That fella has a serious understanding of our underage players going back a while.

[Real ale Madrid]

Elite Phase is Top 28 out of 54. Has no relevance to the U21 - which has 12 finalists. Not sure the U-19 are setting the world alight by getting into the top half every year. You would expect us to do that most years.

[liamoo11]

Elite Phase is Top 28 out of 54. Has no relevance to the U21 - which has 12 finalists. Not sure the U-19 are setting the world alight by getting into the top half every year. You would expect us to do that most years.

Who is saying they are setting the world alight? What I'm saying is in this particular 21s group we have performed better across the 3 under 19 groups which will make up the under 21 squad than every team except Italy who have also qualified for the elite phase in each of the 3 under 19 seasons. And even then we actually beat Italy two nil in the 2017 elite phase(conor mastersons group). My simple point is that a manager who is the chosen one for our seniors should be expected to get into the top 2 here and hailed if we top the group. If we finish below Iceland there is no way he should get the senior job and same if we don't at least push Sweden for second to the very last game.. Hopefully fai have built some of these performance indicators into the contract and haven't been frightened off by the league of ireland apologists

[ifk101]

And even then we actually beat Italy two nil in the 2017 elite phase(conor mastersons group).

Didn't Sweden beat us 3-0 in the same elite phase ;-)?


Liamoo is the man to ask though. That fella has a serious understanding of our underage players going back a while.

Undoubtably. But maybe somewhat selective in what he has posted.

[liamoo11]

Didn't Sweden beat us 3-0 in the same elite phase ;-)?



Undoubtably. But maybe somewhat selective in what he has posted.

Guilty as charged. My defence is that one off results amongst one group of 19s are less important than the overall success across the 3 seasons of 19s that will make up the 21s

[geysir]

He's right though, isn't he? The two hosts and nine group winners qualify automatically. The two best-placed runners-up play off for the final place?
He is right. Quite a shock really.
Mea culpa.

[Real ale Madrid]

Who is saying they are setting the world alight? What I'm saying is in this particular 21s group we have performed better across the 3 under 19 groups which will make up the under 21 squad than every team except Italy who have also qualified for the elite phase in each of the 3 under 19 seasons.

Better than what ? They are top half of Europe, at best. Doesn't correlate at all with what will happen in this Qualification Group.




My simple point is that a manager who is the chosen one for our seniors should be expected to get into the top 2 here and hailed if we top the group. If we finish below Iceland there is no way he should get the senior job and same if we don't at least push Sweden for second to the very last game.. Hopefully fai have built some of these performance indicators into the contract and haven't been frightened off by the league of ireland apologists

"League of Ireland apologists" - yes John Delaney really cares about them!

That's a new one on me - League of Ireland apologists :) - I suppose you will get plenty of them on a forum dedicated to Irish football

[liamoo11]

Better than what ? They are top half of Europe, at best. Doesn't correlate at all with what will happen in this Qualification Group.





"League of Ireland apologists" - yes John Delaney really cares about them!

That's a new one on me - League of Ireland apologists :) - I suppose you will get plenty of them on a forum dedicated to Irish football

How can the performances and results Of The three previous seasons of under 19 s who are the players who will make up the squad for this 21 s cycle not be relevant to how we should expect them to perform at under 21 level?what is not relevant as I have said is that Iceland are seeded above us yet the group of players they will choose from have never made an elite phase at 19s while our group of players for this 21s cycle have made 3 elite phases.

[Real ale Madrid]

How can the performances and results Of The three previous seasons of under 19 s who are the players who will make up the squad for this 21 s cycle not be relevant to how we should expect them to perform at under 21 level?what is not relevant as I have said is that Iceland are seeded above us yet the group of players they will choose from have never made an elite phase at 19s while our group of players for this 21s cycle have made 3 elite phases.

I suppose they are to an extent - but I don't see how - 3 x elite phase means we "should" be top 2 in this group. Not withstanding players develop at different levels and speeds and all that.

I suspect SK will get more more from this group than the sum of its parts, at least I'm hopeful he will. If he fails it shouldn't mean his senior job is in jeopardy. I'd like to see him do well - that's the League of Ireland apologist in me I suppose.

[samhaydenjr]

How can the performances and results Of The three previous seasons of under 19 s who are the players who will make up the squad for this 21 s cycle not be relevant to how we should expect them to perform at under 21 level?what is not relevant as I have said is that Iceland are seeded above us yet the group of players they will choose from have never made an elite phase at 19s while our group of players for this 21s cycle have made 3 elite phases.

The problem for our U21 team in this group is that if they are to top this group, they need at least a handful of exceptional players playing right the way through. But if there's a star 19/20-year-old player in that group, he's likely to be moved up to the senior team, as will happen with Declan Rice if he returns, as has already happened with Michael Obafemi, and as will happen with Kelleher, Masterson and Connolly if they make the breakthrough they seem to be on the verge of making. Meanwhile, the likes of Idah, Parrott, O'Connor, Collins, Afolabi and the rest of what is a very strong looking U19 team will probably be held back to focus on their campaign - if they fail to qualify, they could be brought into the U21 squad after missing only one game, but if they make the U19s Finals they will miss they first 2 or 3 U21 qualifiers.

[Nesta99]

As a League of Ireland apologist, I am as miffed by the way the U21 managers appointment will be timed. It doesnt make much sense to have a guy in for 18 months, not have competative fixtures for a good spell and then leave before the end of the campaign. I do though think this is dealt with though in the remit of the new U21 manager as overseeing the development at underage groups in general, is that being too much of an apologist:p
Seriously though Tom Mohan is an excellent coach and even prior to Stephen Kenny gettin the U21 job they had a good footballing relationship already, Kenny wanted Mohan involved with Derry City. injury cut short his playing days but was already well on the coaching pathway. Being just made RDO in Cavan/Monaghan he chose to stick with the FAI. They have a similar philosophy on the game so there will be a level of continuity from 17s to 21s that wasnt there when King was over 21s. He had a totally different tactical setup so u19s that would have played together, used to a system etc as soon as they were called in to the u21s it was a new and completely outdated way that King tried to get them playing with limited contact with these lads. Now when they move up or are called up through the age groups at minimum they should be better organised simply due to familiarity in how they are asked to play tactically. That probably adds to the pressure that SK could be under tbh particularly if he has contact time with 16s to 21s in conjunctions with those age group managers. While the u19s getting to the elite phases should be an expectation it shouldnt be understated either. There is a consistancy of performance over a number of campaigns now that wasnt there in the past, it was good one off results against top nations but plenty of clangers that blew progression. Performances/results at underage had as much to do with the luck of having a crop of top level youngsters come through at the same time than it did having a tatically astute coach. The mix was right circa 1998 under Kerr but with little before and after. I have little doubt that the general upward momentum seen up until u21s before now will contine to u21s. That could well be the moving on of King as much as the appointment of Kenny. A play-off should be the minimum target but tbh we should have no fear of the Italians and top the group.

[sbgawa]

All fair points but I think it was just a case of the optics with kennys appointment to u21s rather then any particular logic. I look forward to seeing us play a bit of football now, at least if the results don't improve we won't look like talentless lumpers while doing it

[Nesta99]

I agree! It was a muddled way of appointing someone. We know the reasons why though as JD muddled his way out of a mess of sacking a management team what 3 games after giving a top dollar contract extension (excluding the Euro finals games but giving the contract before just makes it all the more bizzare) and with the offer on the table for months as MON courted an EPL job, or at least played JD in to thinking that to get a bump in the offer. The logic behind the appointment happens to make sense for the underage setup I doubt by intention, but then the promotion to the senior job in 18 months irrespective of how things pan out negates any seeming logic shown by the CEO.

Anyway, whether by intent or by accident, I dont think there is a better person to get young lads enthusiastic about a callup, getting them to seriously commit to us. Players who have been around the block, including at EPL clubs have regularly said that they actually enjoyed the training session under Kenny. It may sound like i'm cheerleading a bit but simply his expectation of professionalism, his belief in players' ability, the change in tactic and style might get players who have different options to at least seriously consider RoI rather than Luxemburg or even Sweden. He will play players if they are good enough even if young. Hopefully there is some proper planning with McCarthy on that front without too much interference to get the likes of Ryan Nolan more involved now. Having Matterson around the senior squad if he's in the Liverpool senior matchday squad. Im not so pushed on the idea on trying to sell playing for us to Rice and from what SK has said in the past he wouldnt be pushed either. Mick might be more pragmatic on that right now and convince Rice to stick with us. Tbh the landscape of Irish international football doesnt look just so bleak and a ball has yet to be kicked. I had a watch of the Yugoslavia game from '99 in another thread and maybe that has skewed my thinking a bit but we did play some great stuff bar the last 10 minutes of panic and hoofing as if we had been under the kosh all game, a common factor in McCarthy's first spell and Macedonian heartbreak had yet to happen....

[Olé Olé]

https://twitter.com/McDonnellDan/status/1088436562789126144?s=19

Strong looking homebased squad named, which includes players in the Irish League. Michael O'Connor is in there having publicly stated he was switching to the North.

Good to see Andrews in there. He spoke recently of a frustration at not being involved as much as he'd like in our underage set up.

[Insidetherock]

https://twitter.com/McDonnellDan/status/1088436562789126144?s=19

Strong looking homebased squad named, which includes players in the Irish League. Michael O'Connor is in there having publicly stated he was switching to the North.

Good to see Andrews in there. He spoke recently of a frustration at not being involved as much as he'd like in our underage set up.

Why is this a "home based" squad? Is this just to look at home based players and see if they are suitable, or is there now going to be policy to pick LOI players only?

Surely we should be picking the best players, regardless of where they come from ?

[tetsujin1979]

It's just for a training camp ahead of the first squad being named in March

[nigel-harps1954]

Who cares where they come from? Home based squads are normal for many other nations. It's about time we started doing something similar.

I'd prefer to see a policy of home-based players actually playing first team football at a decent level over second or third generation overseas players that have 30 minutes in a reserve team from League Two getting picked as the likes of Noel King done for the past few years.

[CraftyToePoke]

I'd prefer to see a policy of home-based players actually playing first team football at a decent level over second or third generation overseas players that have 30 minutes in a reserve team from League Two getting picked as the likes of Noel King done for the past few years.

You've just made Jordan Shipley cry.

[nigel-harps1954]

You've just made Jordan Shipley cry.

Au contraire, he's League One.

[Olé Olé]

'I'll promote players that are Irish' - Kenny sets out stall as Irish U21s manager https://the42.ie/4457020

He's making the right noises.

[liamoo11]

'I'll promote players that are Irish' - Kenny sets out stall as Irish U21s manager https://the42.ie/4457020

He's making the right noises.

Is his mention of picking a player from Germany a sign that Johansson has come on board at Bayern?

[Olé Olé]

Hope so. He refers players in Holland in plural. Is there someone other than Simon Power?

[Closed Account]

Hope so. He refers players in Holland in plural. Is there someone other than Simon Power?
There's Quivi Fowler at Dordrecht but he's been lining out for Cardiff u23 recently......

James McGarry and Lukas Browning Lagerfeldt are eligible but currently with New Zealand and Sweden respectively.
Dan Crowley is overage.

[Olé Olé]

Cheers for that reason McGarry. Had never heard of him. Is with Dan Crowley's side, Willem II. Could be a prospect.

[tetsujin1979]

There's Quivi Fowler at Dordrecht but he's been lining out for Cardiff u23 recently......

James McGarry and Lukas Browning Lagerfeldt are eligible but currently with New Zealand and Sweden respectively.
Dan Crowley is overage.

Think Browning isn't eligible any more. AFAIR, he has played competitively for Ireland at u17, and then Sweden at u19.

[liamoo11]

Cheers for that reason McGarry. Had never heard of him. Is with Dan Crowley's side, Willem II. Could be a prospect.

That mcgarry lad is born and bred new Zealand and his father played for new Zealand think that whole Irish passport is simply to allow him move to Europe more easily

[tetsujin1979]

Ryan Johansson's first competitive U21 game for Ireland could be against Luxembourg, who his last competitive U21 game was for

[liamoo11]

Heard a bit on newstalk today where Dan McDonnell and Jonny ward(who hasn't a scooby do about football other than he loves galway Utd) were saying that Kenny won't be capping foreign born irish qualified lads at 21s level as he doesn't see recruitment as part of his role. they offered the example of shiperly From Coventry who was called up by king this season as something which wouldn't happen again. The Two lads thought this was a great thing. This to me is crazy talk. Shiperley has 20 odd appearances this season at league one level at 21. how is he an example of someone who should not have been capped?

[Olé Olé]

Heard a bit on newstalk today where Dan McDonnell and Jonny ward(who hasn't a scooby do about football other than he loves galway Utd) were saying that Kenny won't be capping foreign born irish qualified lads at 21s level as he doesn't see recruitment as part of his role. they offered the example of shiperly From Coventry who was called up by king this season as something which wouldn't happen again. The Two lads thought this was a great thing. This to me is crazy talk. Shiperley has 20 odd appearances this season at league one level at 21. how is he an example of someone who should not have been capped?
Didn't King actively pursue Shiperley and Quigley? Pursuing lads at 21 is a bit late in the day.

I'm sure if these lads are good enough and committed enough they'll be pick. Was Shiperley good enough to go straight into the starting side on his first call-up? I think it was a bit of a capping exercise to do so.

[geysir]

Heard a bit on newstalk today where Dan McDonnell and Jonny ward(who hasn't a scooby do about football other than he loves galway Utd) were saying that Kenny won't be capping foreign born irish qualified lads at 21s level as he doesn't see recruitment as part of his role. they offered the example of shiperly From Coventry who was called up by king this season as something which wouldn't happen again. The Two lads thought this was a great thing. This to me is crazy talk. Shiperley has 20 odd appearances this season at league one level at 21. how is he an example of someone who should not have been capped?
It's Kenny's duty to pick the best out of those u21s who are available to him right now, regardless of their birthplace. If he does not want to pursue other english born players to declare for Ireland then that's his prerogative but he has no right to impose a bias based on some justification of a player to be selected based on a favorable birth location.

[samhaydenjr]

Didn't King actively pursue Shiperley and Quigley? Pursuing lads at 21 is a bit late in the day.

I'm sure if these lads are good enough and committed enough they'll be pick. Was Shiperley good enough to go straight into the starting side on his first call-up? I think it was a bit of a capping exercise to do so.

Hadn't heard much about Shipley so had a look at his stats. He broke into the Coventry first team at the end of the 2016/17 season at the age of 19 and became a regular in 2017/18, playing 41 times in all competitions, scoring in the League 2 play-off final. He has held his place in League One this season and had played 12 times when he was called up. At that point, only 6-8 players in the squad had arguably more extensive first-team experience and currently only Ryan Manning is playing in a higher division (unless you count Jake Mulraney at Hearts). He's playing in the same division as Ronan Curtis, Jimmy Dunne, Josh Cullen and Ian Lawlor, who would all be considered to be within sight of the senior squad, at least. In fairness to Noel King, calling Shipley up might have been a very good decision as he might actually turn out to be a player to watch going forward.

[Diggs246]

It's Kenny's duty to pick the best out of those u21s who are available to him right now, regardless of their birthplace. If he does not want to pursue other english born players to declare for Ireland then that's his prerogative but he has no right to impose a bias based on some justification of a player to be selected based on a favorable birth location.

If he is ever manager of the rep of Ireland i will be shocked. I dont care what his contract says. I think he will be paid off and never get the top job. He is nowhere near qualified

[Charlie Darwin]

Heard a bit on newstalk today where Dan McDonnell and Jonny ward(who hasn't a scooby do about football other than he loves galway Utd) were saying that Kenny won't be capping foreign born irish qualified lads at 21s level as he doesn't see recruitment as part of his role. they offered the example of shiperly From Coventry who was called up by king this season as something which wouldn't happen again. The Two lads thought this was a great thing. This to me is crazy talk. Shiperley has 20 odd appearances this season at league one level at 21. how is he an example of someone who should not have been capped?
Shipley only came in for the first time for the final game, when we were out, and got straight into the starting team for the final under-21 game in which he's eligible. It would do nothing to tie him to Ireland and he can't play underage for us again, so it was the definition of just playing a guy because he's eligible.