Looks like a good promotion/relegation year for the Irish (Well done Mick!)

[TheOwl]

I was at the Wednesday game - Whelan was superb throughout, so composed for someone so young I just hope we can hang on to him.

[macdermesser]

didn't want to open up a new thread and potential wound .. but had to laugh reading this in the Guardian this morning. A quote from Roy Keane on Mick Mc Carthy

"some of the managers I've dealt with have been pure class - David Jones at Cardiff, George Burley, Mick McCarthy. Mick gave a good, honest account of our match up here. Steve Cotterill on Friday night."

http://football.guardian.co.uk/News_Story/0,,2069492,00.html

[OwlsFan]

There are some excellent managers in the Championship ok and I am delighted to see that quote, if it's true. I hope Wolves can make it to the play offs as I have high hopes for Andy Keogh. Derby, Soton, WBA (McShane apart), Stoke (Lawrence) don't excite any interest in me so I'll be routing for Woves.

[galwayhoop]

didn't want to open up a new thread and potential wound .. but had to laugh reading this in the Guardian this morning. A quote from Roy Keane on Mick Mc Carthy

"some of the managers I've dealt with have been pure class - David Jones at Cardiff, George Burley, Mick McCarthy. Mick gave a good, honest account of our match up here. Steve Cotterill on Friday night."

man of principle alright. working for quinny and now saying that mick is a great manager :rolleyes:

[youngirish]

There are some excellent managers in the Championship ok and I am delighted to see that quote, if it's true. I hope Wolves can make it to the play offs as I have high hopes for Andy Keogh. Derby, Soton, WBA (McShane apart), Stoke (Lawrence) don't excite any interest in me so I'll be routing for Woves.

I'd be happy if Wolves, Preston or WBA got promoted. Don't want to see Derby and to a lesser extent Southampton in the Premiership next season. Keogh, Potter and Glesson could probably do with another season in the Championship though as I think the Premeriship at present will be a step too far for all three though Keogh might hold his place in a struggling Wolves team with no better options up front.

I do think though that McShane and St Ledger could do a job in the Premiership at present.

[Calcio Jack]

man of principle alright. working for quinny and now saying that mick is a great manager :rolleyes:

Keane did not say that McCarthy is a great manager, he mentioned that a number of managers including McCarthy gave a good account of themselves when their teams visited Sunderland.... your comment is a real case of not letting the true facts get in the way of spinning a story.

Guess we'll see more of this type of spinning by the Pro McCarthy camp who IMO always appear desparate to cling on to anything positive that Keane says about McCarthy.... still not surprised at the attempt at spining since the same people still insist that Keane walked out on Ireland when the reality is that McCarthy sent him home.

[youngirish]

Keane did not say that McCarthy is a great manager, he mentioned that a number of managers including McCarthy gave a good account of themselves when their teams visited Sunderland.... your comment is a real case of not letting the true facts get in the way of spinning a story.

Guess we'll see more of this type of spinning by the Pro McCarthy camp who IMO always appear desparate to cling on to anything positive that Keane says about McCarthy.... still not surprised at the attempt at spining since the same people still insist that Keane walked out on Ireland when the reality is that McCarthy sent him home.

Some of the managers I have dealt with have been pure class - David Jones at Cardiff, George Burley, Mick McCarthy.

Yeah that's a scathing attack all right on McCarthy ain't it? What's your point? He said that McCarthy was pure class how do you know how he meant it? Are you Roy Keane?

I'm not in the pro Keane or McCarthy camp but your blind loyalty to Keane is baffling.

Btw he was sent home for being disruptive and seriously slating the manager in front of all the players. I'll try that in work today with my boss will I? I wonder would I be sent home? He also had numerous opportunites to come back which he never took which sickens me when I think I (and millions worldwide like me) would chew me right arm off to play for my country even in a friendly match nevermind the greatest sports competition in the world.

[galwayhoop]

Guess we'll see more of this type of spinning by the Pro McCarthy camp who IMO always appear desparate to cling on to anything positive that Keane says about McCarthy.....

i'm neither pro-mcCarthy nor pro-keane. but i am most certainly anti-muppets who think that roy keane is the answer to all things football, the enigma, the true voice, the man of principle - who now works for niall quinn and says that mcCarthy is 'pure class' :rolleyes:

[Stuttgart88]

Keane did not say that McCarthy is a great manager, he mentioned that a number of managers including McCarthy gave a good account of themselves when their teams visited Sunderland.... your comment is a real case of not letting the true facts get in the way of spinning a story.
Pot calling the kettle black methinks.

"some of the managers I've dealt with have been pure class - David Jones at Cardiff, George Burley, Mick McCarthy. Mick gave a good, honest account of our match up here. Steve Cotterill on Friday night."

It seems that Keane, having spoken to McCarthy on the phone prior to the game and had a drink with him after both games, is now more positive about him. He's been prepared to move on, so has Mick, yet others seem determined to take a totally polar take on them, even now.

[Jerry The Saint]

Pot calling the kettle black methinks.

"some of the managers I've dealt with have been pure class - David Jones at Cardiff, George Burley, Mick McCarthy. Mick gave a good, honest account of our match up here. Steve Cotterill on Friday night."

It seems that Keane, having spoken to McCarthy on the phone prior to the game and had a drink with him after both games, is now more positive about him. He's been prepared to move on, so has Mick, yet others seem determined to take a totally polar take on them, even now.

I wonder if he even empathises a little now that he's on the other side of the fence. He's had to deal with players delaying the team bus, as Jack had to with him, would be interesting to see a senior squad member fly off the handle and give him stick in front of everyone. Now's your chance Kavo. :)

[geysir]

I guess there will be quite a few confused Keano nuts left in some kind of paradoxical wasteland of dogma.
Will we hear a few cries of Judas from them :)

And some of the managers I've dealt with have been pure class - David Jones at Cardiff, George Burley, Mick McCarthy.
That sounds very nice Roy.

[Calcio Jack]

Some of the managers I have dealt with have been pure class - David Jones at Cardiff, George Burley, Mick McCarthy.

Yeah that's a scathing attack all right on McCarthy ain't it? What's your point? He said that McCarthy was pure class how do you know how he meant it? Are you Roy Keane?

I'm not in the pro Keane or McCarthy camp but your blind loyalty to Keane is baffling.

Btw he was sent home for being disruptive and seriously slating the manager in front of all the players. I'll try that in work today with my boss will I? I wonder would I be sent home? He also had numerous opportunites to come back which he never took which sickens me when I think I (and millions worldwide like me) would chew me right arm off to play for my country even in a friendly match nevermind the greatest sports competition in the world.

(1) Nothing to do with blind loyalty

(2) All I'm saying is that Keane did not say that "..McCarthy is a great manager.." but did refer to him (and others) as been first class to deal with.And I as I said earlier it's amazing how pro mCarthy people seem to jump of this as if it is some major revealation etc.

(3) In relation to your comment that he was sent home for slating the manager in front of the players. As usual a pro McCarthy comment that forgets to give the full context, ie McCarthy's major managerial blunder of choosing to berate Keane in front of his colleagues and accuse him of feigning injury etc. Indeed to use your own analogy in relation to your boss, would you think it acceptable for your boss to call a staff meeting and then to proceed to berate you and call you liar in front of your colleagues .... I somehow doubt it. So for me the error of Saipan lay with McCarthy in that he failed to act as a quality manager and through his mismanagement he alienated and ultimately sent home (arguably our best player) thus diminished our chance of winnning the World Cup.

(4) What numerous opportunities ?? all I can remember is the mismanagement of the FAI who mistimed the issuing of the statement from McCarthy with him flanked by his lackies Quinn, Staunton and Kelly saying Keane couldn't return and (again poor management) the comments from McCarthy saying publicly something to the effect that he was waiting by his phone for a call from Keane and an apology.

(5) and of course McCarthy is quoted as saying the following "... no doubt that whem I'm sat in a pub in Dublin supping pint of Guinness when I'm 60, someone will come up to me and say there's the plonker that sent Roy Keane home from the World Cup.." and you know he's right on that one.


I've no doubt that'll you have your own version of events and this will run for a long time

[Calcio Jack]

I guess there will be quite a few confused Keano nuts left in some kind of paradoxical wasteland of dogma.
Will we hear a few cries of Judas from them :)

That sounds very nice Roy.

Why would anyone be suck in a wasteland of dogma. Very simple ,in Saipan McCarthy acted in a very stupid manner etc. 5 years on he has acted in a class manner and Keane has no problem acknowledging that . So different events , on one occasion McCarthy got it right and on the other he got it wrong, hope that's simple enough for you to follow and removes any confusion.

[OwlsFan]

There's also an article in today's Daily Telegraph on Keane setting his sights high and how the Championship has opened his eyes to a lot of things:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/main.jhtml?xml=/sport/2007/05/01/sfnsun01.xml

No mention of Maccer though.

Of course he's bound to have learned a lot. As a player, you have to think only about yourself. As a manager you have to see the bigger picture.

[Calcio Jack]

I wonder if he even empathises a little now that he's on the other side of the fence. He's had to deal with players delaying the team bus, as Jack had to with him, would be interesting to see a senior squad member fly off the handle and give him stick in front of everyone. Now's your chance Kavo. :)

Difference is I doubt if Keane would call Kavo a liar etc in front of all the squad.

[Calcio Jack]

Pot calling the kettle black methinks.

"some of the managers I've dealt with have been pure class - David Jones at Cardiff, George Burley, Mick McCarthy. Mick gave a good, honest account of our match up here. Steve Cotterill on Friday night."

It seems that Keane, having spoken to McCarthy on the phone prior to the game and had a drink with him after both games, is now more positive about him. He's been prepared to move on, so has Mick, yet others seem determined to take a totally polar take on them, even now.

Of course he/both of them have moved on and good luck to them.... no doubt as long as anyone calls Keane a traitor or anyone says
McCarthy was wrong to send Keane home, then someone will defend/attack the commentamde. IMO this is as close (luckily for us) as our generation wil ever get to a civil war. Amongst my own good friends I'd say the split is approx 60% in favour of Keane with 30% pro McCarthy and the other 10% (the smart ones) laughing and winding us up.

[Wolfie]

Working for Quinn and complements for McCarthy - what odds would you have got for that a year ago?

Keane's attitude has changed as, at face value, both he and McCarthy appear to have moved on. It appears its only us who can't escape that bloody island of 5 years ago!!

They've more to worry about with their clubs rather than constantly re-visiting the rights and wrongs of what happened in Saipan 5 years ago.

It still begs the question - what enables them to get over it now that just couldn't be countenanced 5 years ago - Is it the letting go of stubborn pride, the passing of time or the expedience of not wanting the added pressure of a media circus every time Sunderland play Wolves?

[Ordinary Fan]

It is like been stuck in a time warp, pro-Keane or pro-McCarthy. They Have moved on, we all have our own openion, so keep it to yourself and move on.

I am suprised that Keane has done so well at Sunderland and amazed with his performance in front of the media. This will count for nothing if he gets relaged next year or leaves the club in a huff!

McCarthy has done a good job with Wolves, but would probably be better off not getting promoted as the team is inexperienced and would benefit from another year fighting for promotion instead of religation. Keogh looks the business, it is a pity that he will miss the US trip.

[SuperDave]

There are some excellent managers in the Championship ok and I am delighted to see that quote, if it's true. I hope Wolves can make it to the play offs as I have high hopes for Andy Keogh. Derby, Soton, WBA (McShane apart), Stoke (Lawrence) don't excite any interest in me so I'll be routing for Woves.


You would if you read this:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/She-Stood-There-Laughing-Football/dp/0743256832/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/026-3268551-6901224?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1178032662&sr=8-1

[OwlsFan]

You would if you read this:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/She-Stood-There-Laughing-Football/dp/0743256832/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/026-3268551-6901224?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1178032662&sr=8-1

I am sure they're a good club with their own history (Eastham, Matthews, Terry Conroy) but at the moment I don't any any interest in their progressing as they'll be straight back down again.

Calcio, Saipan has been discussed ad nauseum on these boards and no one is going to change their opinion at this stage. For the record, I am in a group of about 10 football supporters who meet regularly (including a Corkman) and all were anti-Keane. I had another friend with whom I went to Italia 90, USA 94 etc etc but he refused to follow Ireland anymore after Saipan. He was on the Keane side of the fence. The amusing thing now is he knows Andy Keogh personally and is hoping Wolves get promoted :D So the wheel turns.

[geysir]

Wise Owl.

[OwlsFan]

Good game today between Wolves and WBA 2-3. Keane was at the game. Wonder was he throwing an eye over McShane ?

[tetsujin1979]

Good game today between Wolves and WBA 2-3. Keane was at the game. Wonder was he throwing an eye over McShane ?
According to today's Indo he was:
http://www.unison.ie/sportsdesk/stories.php3?ca=12&si=1828780

ROY KEANE will be at at Molineux at noon today as Sunderland consider a £2.5m bid for Irish international Paul McShane.

The article states that McShane was Player of the Season at West Brom, but I can't find anything to back that up

[Stuttgart88]

Saw most of the game. Keogh's a really good player. McShane was good at right-back and Potter was decent, always looking for it and usually giving simple passes to develop play. Hard to tell with that type of player on the telly, you really need to be at a game to assess properly but if he makes the trip it'll be interesting to see him play in the US. Ward didn't have a chance to make an impact. Dean Kiely's in great shape, much leaner than when he was on loan at Luton I thought. Still a very good keeper.

Saw a bit of Sheff Utd vs Wigan too. Geary was poor going forward but I think he's a right footer playing left back. Not the answer for us at LB by a long way and I think Stan's assessment is correct - maybe a useful option if you want to man mark a guy out of the game but that's probably it. Folan came on late for Wigan, doesn't look to be very coordinated. Kilbane was Kilbane, good honest shift and was lucky I think to get an assist with a poor inaccurate cross (or a superb low pass?). Stephen Quinn was subbed soon after I started watching, didn't do much but set up a run on goal with a clever glancing header that Webber(?) picked up and hit the inside of the post with.

[beautifulrock]

Watched the WBA v Wolves game and have to say McShane was turned inside out by Kightly twice in a few minutes. He settled after that but got booked again. Keogh was excellent and as Stutts said Potter was calm and always demanding the ball. Kept possession well and I know from a Wolves season ticket holder he is very well regarded.

[Sligo Hornet]

Watched the WBA v Wolves game and have to say McShane was turned inside out by Kightly twice in a few minutes. He settled after that but got booked again. Keogh was excellent and as Stutts said Potter was calm and always demanding the ball. Kept possession well and I know from a Wolves season ticket holder he is very well regarded.

Did you see the brutal piece of defensive play by Gary Breen?.......was a "perfect pass" to Kevin Phillips for the first goal!!:o

[youngirish]

Did you see the brutal piece of defensive play by Gary Breen?.......was a "perfect pass" to Kevin Phillips for the first goal!!:o

That's why I laugh when I hear some of the ill informed moaners on this forum regularly stating that we don't have the players anymore to qualify for a major tournament. McCarthy got us into the second round of the World Cup (and in fairness we should have got even further) with that same Gary Breen as the mainstay of our defence. Ian Harte was also in there somewhere.

Considering the above we should be able to win the world cup now. I heard McShane was shocking yesterday btw. He's too slow for a full back. We need him to be playing in central defence where he's more comfortable. Apparently Keane is looking at buying him if the tabloids are to be believed.

[drummerboy]

Watched this game, was hoping Wolves would do it. Keogh had a great first half, but faded in the second. Really exciting prospect. Breen was the cause of two goals, good pro, but getting past his best now. McShane had an uncomfortable period in first half when the highly talented Keightley gave him a bit of a roasting but in fairness McShane got to grips with him as the game wore on. Dean Kiely had a great game.

[beautifulrock]

Yes Breen was poor yesterday, bad mistake for the first goal, the ball should have been hoofed into row z and played Camara on for the third goal. McShane looked slow when up against Kightly (who played very well, amazing considering he made the step up from the conference). However, he did settle down and played well there after. I do agree he is a centre half and not a full back. Be interesting to see what happens next but Roy would have went away,imho, thinking this guy is far from being the fininshed article.

[OwlsFan]

Roy would have went away,imho, thinking this guy is far from being the fininshed article.

I'd say Keane would have gone away thinking, imho, "all credit to WBA and thank God it's unlikely I'll see McCarthy in the Premiership next season".

[monutdfc]

2nd time I've seen Keogh on tv and based on what I've seen I think he's quality

[eirebhoy]

I wouldn't read anything into McShane's performances at full back. It's the same with O'Dea at Celtic. Watch him at centre half and you'd think he's actually fast, play him at left back and he's really exposed for pace. He has only played there twice and it's that obvious. Some of the very best centre halves would struggle at full back. I don't know why Mowbray doesn't play him at centre half, I'd be very suprised if their 2nd choice centre half is better than him.

[Dr. Ogba]

I wouldn't read anything into McShane's performances at full back. It's the same with O'Dea at Celtic. Watch him at centre half and you'd think he's actually fast, play him at left back and he's really exposed for pace. He has only played there twice and it's that obvious. Some of the very best centre halves would struggle at full back. I don't know why Mowbray doesn't play him at centre half, I'd be very suprised if their 2nd choice centre half is better than him.

Could be a case that he's the only centre-half in that squad that's anywhere near good enough and adaptable enough to play at full back...

[eirebhoy]

Could be a case that he's the only centre-half in that squad that's anywhere near good enough and adaptable enough to play at full back...
I wouldn't really know but apparantly Albrechtsen isn't a bad player and he's a right back. They could have had the best central defence in the league with McShane and Davies. Anyway, hopefully this season is his last at right back.

[OwlsFan]

WBA go through. Possibily for the first time since 3 down, 3 up, the same teams will go back up as came down last season.

Wolves were poor. Neither Potter nor Keogh made an impact :( McShane was as solid as ever.

[dr_peepee]

I wouldn't really know but apparantly Albrechtsen isn't a bad player and he's a right back. They could have had the best central defence in the league with McShane and Davies. Anyway, hopefully this season is his last at right back.


True...Man City could do allot worse than to sign McShane to replace Distin and partner Dunne...

[theworm2345]

He may have missed the header but how can you not forgive him...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ykp9m_zG6K8