A few taunts but Linfield fans come and go in peace

[Ringo]

A few taunts but Linfield fans come and go in peace

Tuesday April 5th 2005


RIVAL soccer fans from the loyalist Belfast club Linfield FC and Longford Town taunted each other in Longford last night.

Both teams wore black armbands as a mark of respect to the late Pope John Paul II but there was no minute's silence because of fears that it wouldn't command total observance from the 650 Linfield supporters who travelled to the Midlands.

The fans, mainly from loyalist areas of Belfast, travelled in a convoy of buses to Longford for the Setanta Cup tie and, apart from chants of 'God Save the Queen' and a few bars of 'The Sash', most were well behaved.

The pre-match build-up concentrated on security issues but a massive operation which involved around 75 gardai, the Garda horse and dog units and a spotter plane as well as members of the FAI, Longford and Linfield security teams ensured the game passed off safely.

About 2,000 Longford supporters turned up for the match, and most chose to ignore the occasional taunts of "Fenian scum" and "f*** the Pope".

Some Linfield supporters wore the Rangers' jerseys, and a number also carried Union Jacks and St George's Cross flags.

The smaller Linfield support, mainly male, was far more vocal than the home support, which was a mix of families, although the home crowd erupted after just five minutes when the first goal was scored.

The Belfast brigade were silenced again in first half injury time when Longford scored again, although the silence didn't last long.

There was an air of nervousness among FAI officials and gardai prior to the match. The event was an all-ticket affair and no tickets were available at the ground for security reasons.

Some buses carrying Linfield supporters stopped in Longford town prior to the match and supporters visited a number of pubs, although there were no reports of any trouble.

There was a heavy Garda presence and the garda mounted unit as well as garda sniffer dogs patrolled outside the ground prior to kick-off.

Inside, more than 100 gardai and stewards kept the fans were kept separated.

Stewards from Belfast also travelled to Longford to help police the Northern Irish support. The Belfast fans also had their own entrance and car park.

Tom Felle



© Irish Independent
http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/ & http://www.unison.ie/

[thecorner]

About 2,000 Longford supporters turned up for the match, and most chose to ignore the occasional taunts of "Fenian scum" and "f*** the Pope".


seem like a nice bunch of guys :rolleyes:



Some Linfield supporters wore the Rangers' jerseys, and a number also carried Union Jacks and St George's Cross flags.

never knew they were scottish as well as all the teams in ireland :) :) :)

[gspain]

I was at the game. Great win for Longford and well deserved.

Thankfully it went off peacefully. No hint of trouble apart from some of the sectarian chanting from a section of the visiting fans. Longford fans were great albeit quiet for long periods but nothing amiss. Security wasn't too bad - no searches or anything for home fans anyway.

Plenty of Linfield fans walking around the town beforehand and apparently the Longford Arms was mobbed.

[sonofstan]

[QUOTE=gspain] Longford fans were great albeit quiet for long periods but nothing amiss. .

/QUOTE]
no change there, so

[Eire06]

Watched it on sentanta, thought there were no flags alowed?? Saw a fair few Union Jacks..
Linfield Crowd seemed a bit rough alright and a fair bit of chanting but fair play to the longford supporters they didn't rise to it..

Thought Longford owned the first half, linfield really came out fighting in the second half and really brought it to them were unlucky not to have scored earlier..

Biot of a scrappy game but the best team won in the end:D

[sonofstan]

I'll be surprised if any of the EL teams will bring anything like 650 with them to Belfast or Portadown - for Cork the distance factor on a weekday night will mitigate against it and Shels don't have 650 fans - think we need to get over ourselves about the union flags and the fenian scum stuff; as long as it stays at that then so what? ultimately, we're all fans of a minority sport on a small island and we've infinitely more in common than otherwise. I rather talk to a Linfield fan who was prepared to stand in the open, in the rain, at Flancare on a Monday night than to a Celtic or Man U fan from the Falls ( or from Cabra)

[thejollyrodger]

yeah so what if they have all the naff union jacks and rangers jerseys. As long as its only chanting and no rioting. The other side of the coin is that it will probably do wonders for the atmostphere at the games :D :D

[BohDiddley]

Some Linfield supporters wore the Rangers' jerseys, and a number also carried Union Jacks and St George's Cross flags.
Excuse my ignorance, and slightly off-topic, but is this correct? Is it George or Patrick?
On another note, I thought the Linfield manager was sound: still optimistic at half-time and magnanimous in what was a hard defeat.

[dcfcsteve]

RIVAL soccer fans from the loyalist Belfast club Linfield FC and Longford Town taunted each other in Longford last night.

Tom Felle is a bell-end. There was no taunting by Longford fans. His own article states that there weren't any. He's just gone for a lazy soundbite here of 'trading insults' to try and boost the start of an article that he was clearly dying to make sensationalist. Sad that events on the night scuppered his wee plan...

Tosser....

[tiktok]

as I posted on www.corkcityfc.ie earlier.....

Funny that the game went off without a hitch, that there was no trouble, even when the linfield boys stopped for a beer in the town, yet the main thrust of the piece is to highlight the sectarian chants, though by the jounalist's own admission these were "occasional", the linfield fans "most were well behaved" and "there were no reports of any trouble".

He twice makes reference to the amount and variety of Garda units at the event, but doesn't bother to name the goalscorers, and fails to mention that Linfield themselves scored late on. In fairness, was this a match report or just another example of the media waiting for this competition to fail?

There are idiots associated with every club, can you say hand on heart that someone in the shed won't start with the "what's it like to have a queen" or some such chants when Ports are down, but does that represent the club, NO!

Lazy journalism

[joey B]

Some linfield fans are'nt happy bunnies

LINFIELD FANS (http://www.irishleagueforums.net/forums/showthread.php?threadid=29001&perpage=15&pagenumber=1)

[The Good Son]

There are idiots associated with every club, can you say hand on heart that someone in the shed won't start with the "what's it like to have a queen" or some such chants when Ports are down, but does that represent the club, NO!

Lazy journalism
Surely the "what's it like to have a queen" chant only works with those who don't really want a queen, like Derry. The Ports fans response to "what's it like to have a queen" would probably be, it's very nice thank you very much for asking.

[tiktok]

Surely the "what's it like to have a queen" chant only works with those who don't really want a queen, like Derry. The Ports fans response to "what's it like to have a queen" would probably be, it's very nice thank you very much for asking.

Yeah, good point. :)
To be honest I was trying to think of an example of sectarian chants and couldn't come up with any. Hopefully that's a good thing :)

[republic]

ultimately, we're all fans of a minority sport on a small island and we've infinitely more in common than otherwise.

I rather talk to a Linfield fan who was prepared to stand in the open, in the rain, at Flancare on a Monday night than to a Celtic or Man U fan from the Falls ( or from Cabra)


Minority sport??? :confused: :confused:

Football is the most popular sport on the island. By far! Ok, club football on the island doesn't attract anything near the crowds which attend the GAA All Ireland games and probably won't until the standard improves and genuine and consistent progress in Europe is made. However as regards interest, and playing numbers throughout the island as a whole, football is the number one sport. The interest in a Republic of Ireland world cup qualifier, never mind a game in the finals, far exceed anything the GAAH can engender.

I'd rather talk to a Linfield fan than a GAA fan! :D :D

[Bald Student]

apart from chants of 'God Save the Queen' and a few bars of 'The Sash', most were well behaved. What's wrong with singing these songs? I've often sung my national anthem and other cultural songs at games. There's no reason why the Linfield supporters shouldn't do the same.

[gspain]

Minority sport??? :confused: :confused:

Football is the most popular sport on the island. By far! Ok, club football on the island doesn't attract anything near the crowds which attend the GAA All Ireland games and probably won't until the standard improves and genuine and consistent progress in Europe is made. However as regards interest, and playing numbers throughout the island as a whole, football is the number one sport. The interest in a Republic of Ireland world cup qualifier, never mind a game in the finals, far exceed anything the GAAH can engender.

I'd rather talk to a Linfield fan than a GAA fan! :D :D

I think both are correct.

Football is by far the most popular sport on this island but LoI or IL football is a still a minority sport compared to premiership football or even spanish football on this island not to mind the GAA or HC rugby.

If Man Utd met Milan last night at Flanclare in a mickey mouse friendly you would have filled the ground twenty times over. Sad!!!!

[stickyjoe]

only seen the last half an hour of the game. it didnt seem bad.

glad there was no trouble but seemed like there was a fair bit of racist chanting at eric lavine(or was i imagining this).

btw, the linfield manager david jeffrey seems like a top man unlike alot of other characters in irish soccer. also remember hearing somethhing about him lending windsor park to a womens gaelic team a while ago

[pete]

I think if we just had chants & flags in the stadiums then we'll be ok.

The fact that Linfield fans stopped off in Longford for a few pre match pints without any incidents has to be proof of the success of the competition.

Must say that Linfield fans on tv reminded me of Rovers fans.

[sonofstan]

By minority sport, I meant local football, i.e. the EL or the Irish League;

[dcfcsteve]

What's wrong with singing these songs? I've often sung my national anthem and other cultural songs at games. There's no reason why the Linfield supporters shouldn't do the same.

There's 2 things to consider with songs like these - their actual content, and the intention behind singing them.

The 'Billy Boys' is an avowedly sectarian song - as shown in the line "We're up to our necks in fenian blood". Excuse my French, but if that line was changed to "******" or "faggot" blood then the whole world would be up in arms. But it's ok to sing anti-Catholic songs - "sure it's only an aul song, what harm will it do...".

The second consideration is the intention behind singing cxertaion songs. Singing the sash during a brand practise in an Orange Hall is of no offence or consequence to anyone. Singing it at a football game against Catholic opposition is clearly designed and intended to goad the opposition. Whilst the lyrics of The Sash may not be sectarian, singing it in that context clearly is.

Let me guess - singing "Rule Britannia" and "God save the Queen" were also just random songs they just happened to choose ? A small minority of Linfield fans may well sing these type of songs at most or all of their games, but when the context changes to one against a Catholic team it takes on a whol different meaning. To pretend that those singing such songs are blissfully unaware of this fact is naive in the extreme....

As for singing songs about the Pope - that is just sick. Ironic, given that the Linfield team were wearing black armbands. God knows how the Catholics in that team can leave the dressing room at each game, knowing that they're going to get abused. and then there's the monkey chants....

Longford has hardly been a hot-bed of Irish politics at any point in its history (Albert Reynolds aside :) ) . If Linfield fans sing songs like those against Cork City in the final, for example, the reaction may not be as relaxed. It's a recipe for mayhem, and those singing the songs are well aware of it....

[Eire06]

There's 2 things to consider with songs like these - their actual content, and the intention behind singing them.

The 'Billy Boys' is an avowedly sectarian song - as shown in the line "We're up to our necks in fenian blood". Excuse my French, but if that line was changed to "******" or "faggot" blood then the whole world would be up in arms. But it's ok to sing anti-Catholic songs - "sure it's only an aul song, what harm will it do...".

The second consideration is the intention behind singing cxertaion songs. Singing the sash during a brand practise in an Orange Hall is of no offence or consequence to anyone. Singing it at a football game against Catholic opposition is clearly designed and intended to goad the opposition. Whilst the lyrics of The Sash may not be sectarian, singing it in that context clearly is.

Let me guess - singing "Rule Britannia" and "God save the Queen" were also just random songs they just happened to choose ? A small minority of Linfield fans may well sing these type of songs at most or all of their games, but when the context changes to one against a Catholic team it takes on a whol different meaning. To pretend that those singing such songs are blissfully unaware of this fact is naive in the extreme....

As for singing songs about the Pope - that is just sick. Ironic, given that the Linfield team were wearing black armbands. God knows how the Catholics in that team can leave the dressing room at each game, knowing that they're going to get abused. and then there's the monkey chants....

Longford has hardly been a hot-bed of Irish politics at any point in its history (Albert Reynolds aside :) ) . If Linfield fans sing songs like those against Cork City in the final, for example, the reaction may not be as relaxed. It's a recipe for mayhem, and those singing the songs are well aware of it....

Very True,
I'll say it again Fair play to the Longford supporters and not rising to them.. With many other groups of supporters there easily could have been trouble..
And as you say we'll see what happens if they play the likes of Cork

[Laker]

This piece in the Indo is in a section devoted to Pope John Paul II. What the feck does this match have to do with the pope?????

The cheek of them Linfield fans singing God Save The Queen and wearing Rangers jerseys and the Pope only dead a couple of days!!!!

Also the Linfield manager did come across as a nice bloke in the interview...

[Éanna]

To pretend that those singing such songs are blissfully unaware of this fact is naive in the extreme....

Football fans in "singing songs to wind up the opposition shocker" :eek: I'm no fan of the Sash, nor am I a fan of GSTQ or any of those songs, but they are only songs. The only thing I would be concerned about is the allegations of racist abuse against Lavine- that cannot be tolerated. As for everything else, let them sing away, very easy to drown these people out, or better still ignore them.

[patsh]

If Linfield fans sing songs like those against Cork City in the final, for example, the reaction may not be as relaxed. It's a recipe for mayhem, and those singing the songs are well aware of it....
Steve, Linfield have thier muppets, Derry have their muppets, City do and so does EVERY other team on this island.
I would be fairly sure that the MAJORITY of Linfield fans went to Longford yesterday, had a good time, a few drinks, spent a little cash and then went and supported their team. There were a few who acted the maggot, and probably always will.
If we are lucky enough to get into the final and play Linfield, I dare say a few neanderthals from City will find their way to Landsdowne, but again, I'm fairly sure that the VAST MAJORITY of City fans will ignore them and try to drown them out.

[LFC in Exile]

The interest in a world cup qualifier comes mostly from fair weather supporters, most who have never, ever been to an Eircom league game - in fact they consider the domestic soccer scene to be a big joke. I'd rather talk to a REAL fan than a plastic Republic of Ireland supporting PAddy !

Yes, when Armagh or Tyrone won those counties were delighted and went ape. The other 31 were disinterested.

International matches do attract fairweather supporters. Just like All-Irelands really. Getting a ticket to an All-Ireland with e.g. Cork in it is impossible. But try getting a ticket to see them earlier in the championship or even in teh league. Not much bother really.

I'd rather talk to any sports fan that is passionate about his sport rather than talk to bandwagon-jumpers of any sport. :ball:

[dcfcsteve]

Football fans in "singing songs to wind up the opposition shocker" :eek: I'm no fan of the Sash, nor am I a fan of GSTQ or any of those songs, but they are only songs. The only thing I would be concerned about is the allegations of racist abuse against Lavine- that cannot be tolerated. As for everything else, let them sing away, very easy to drown these people out, or better still ignore them.

"They're only songs..." . The classic response. So making an anti-Catholic speech in public would be wrong, for example, but as soon as you put it to music it magically becomes harmless and ok ? If they'd been singing anti-black/Jewish/Muslim or any other type of songs there'd have been uproar - even if those were also "only songs". Sure - weren't the monkey chants only a wee bit of grunting ? No real harm done then. Probably just a few boys trying to clear their throats....

Why is it unacceptable for a minority of the Linfield fans (and it was a small minority) to be making monkey sounds at Eric Lavine, yet no big deal for them to be involved in sectarian chanting ? Anti-Catholic abuse is tolerated when it shouldn't be. It's unacceptable, just like anti-Protestant abuse or rascist abuse is unacceptable.

So you're cool with the songs about the Pope being dead then Eanna.......? You didn't mention it above. Sure anyway, t'was only a wee song......

[WeAreRovers]

Must say that Linfield fans on tv reminded me of Rovers fans.

:eek:

Actually doesn't surprise me, probably the two most hardcore/mad/whatever sets of fans on the island.

KOH

[republic]

Imagine the buzz if the Dubs were in an All-Ireland ......... Imagine, 'coz thats all they'll be doing.! Did you go up to Armagh or tyrone after they'd won the All-Ireland ??

The interest in a world cup qualifier comes mostly from fair weather supporters, most who have never, ever been to an Eircom league game - in fact they consider the domestic soccer scene to be a big joke. !


Despite being from Dublin, I wouldn't watch 'the Dubs' in an All-Ireland cup final if they were playing in my back garden. :) :) :) . Personally I would rather be in Richmond Park watching an eL match. ;)

What absolute b**sh**t. Obviously the 35,000 who were in Paris were all "fair weather supporters". Many of those who travel regularly to support the Republic have a keen interest in the eircom League. If you travelled you would know that. There are others who have a passing interest in the eircom League and others who would rather spend their money travelling to Celtic Park, Anfield or Highbury. It's their money. Who am I (or you, for that matter) to tell them how to spend their own time and money?

[sonofstan]

Worth looking at the Linfield forum joey B pointed to above ( I'm a computer neanderthal can't do that hyperlink thing) - most of them as annoyed by the songs and flags and monkey chanting as anyone else; tickets were supposed to be confined to season ticket holders, but if you bought a bus ticket you didn't have to produce one. Anyway, for the OD linfield fan, these guys are as annoying as the Celtic shirt wearing 'republicans' are for us; Rangers fans importing Scottish/ English wannabee- ism. Still think it was enormously to their credit that they brought so many on a wet monday night; can only regret (again) that we're not in this cup.

[Bald Student]

"They're only songs..."God Save the Queen is not a racist or anti-catholic song. It is the national anthem of six counties of this island and the Linfield fans are well within their rights to sing it when they travel abroad to a soccer match.

[gspain]

It was a minority of about 40-50. the others were very well behaved as thankfully were all the Longford fans.

The songs about the Pope, racist taunts and "fenian bast%^d" are not acceptable nor is the Billy Boys which I didn't hear last night. The Sash is perceived as being a sectarian song albeit I doubt if many of the home fans recognized it. I've yet to understand why exactly given the words. I actually don't find Rule Britannia or GSTQ to be sectarian or offensive in anyway but no doubt there will be ********s in bars in the Shankhill tonight boasting how they bravely went to Longford and sang such them. No doubt they were probably in Rangers shirts too not Linfield shirts and won't be in Larne on saturday.

The club themselves behaved impeccably and the black armbands and the Linfield flag at half mast were huge gestures. David Jeffrey and his staff applauding the home fans was a great gesture as was the clapping of every Linfield substitute by the home fans.

One strange thing - I believe the security last night cost Longford €35,000 which included garda escorts to/from the border for the Blues fans. Why then were they allowed to wander around Longford for 3 hours drinking beer and eating burgers without any supervision? Doesn't that defeat the purpose? LoI clubs can barely afford to shell out €35K on security

[Schumi]

Not much of the chanting came through on the TV. A couple of rounds of 'Billy Boys' and one chant ending in 'IRA' to the tune of Go West was all that could be taken as offensive, apart from 'Rule Brittania' which doesn't cause me any offence. I'm not particularly familiar with other chants but the monkey noises didn't come across thankfully.

[tiktok]

What absolute b**sh**t. Obviously the 35,000 who were in Paris were all "fair weather supporters". Many of those who travel regularly to support the Republic have a keen interest in the eircom League.

I can't talk for 35,000 people anymore than you can republic, but what I can say is that I travelled to Paris with seven others, not a single one of them had (or has since) ever been at an EL game.

[Eire06]

I can't talk for 35,000 people anymore than you can republic, but what I can say is that I travelled to Paris with seven others, not a single one of them had (or has since) ever been at an EL game.

There was a good mixture there those who do go to EL matches and those who don't and I don't consider andy of them the lesser fan...

This Thread is about Linfield can we stick to it please??

Any Longford fans there?
Did you get much abuse?
How was the atmosphere in your area??

[tiktok]

This Thread is about Linfield can we stick to it please?
I'd love to if people didn't keep drifting off with sh!te like this..... :rolleyes:

...other groups of supporters there easily could have been trouble....we'll see what happens if they play the likes of Cork....

It's quite clear from the Longford threads on here that the majority of Longford fans appreciate that the Linfield 'fans' who indulged in the offensive chants were very much in the minority. It's also clear from the ILF that the majority of Linfield fans were embarased by the actions of this minority and that many among that minority aren't regulars.

I'm disappointed that all the focus today is on (as Gary mentioned) 30 or 40 idiots among the 650 people who travelled, as opposed to on the 610/620 who created a great atmosphere and the Longford fans who showed their visitors great respect.

[Slash/ED]

What absolute b**sh**t. Obviously the 35,000 who were in Paris were all "fair weather supporters".

35,000 goto Paris to see us play France, 19,000 go to Dublin to see us play Canada. I think you're fairly spot on there so. Event junkies is the phrase I'd use, and it would also sum up the feeling around Dublin if we made an all ireland final. Everyone would jump on the bandwagon yeah, then we'd lose and nobody would really care or we'd win and there'd be brief celebrations before the next league match in Parnell Park generates an attendence on an EL level.

So as not to drift off topic...

The chanting was bad yes, but on Linfields first visit to this country for a competitive match in god knows how long and the only thing worthy of mention as far as crowd trouble is concerned is a minority of their traveling support chanting a few things. I think that's fairly good in itself.

[Eire06]

tictok I was using cork as an example in a response to DCFCSteve comment (couldn't use Galway cause were not in it :confused: ) and it was on the topic it was to do with them playing Linfield and I do wonder if they will be as calm as the Longford lot!!

[Éanna]

"They're only songs..." . The classic response. So making an anti-Catholic speech in public would be wrong, for example, but as soon as you put it to music it magically becomes harmless and ok ? If they'd been singing anti-black/Jewish/Muslim or any other type of songs there'd have been uproar - even if those were also "only songs". Sure - weren't the monkey chants only a wee bit of grunting ? No real harm done then. Probably just a few boys trying to clear their throats.....
No, you're taking me up ALL wrong here. I was pointing out that GSTQ and the Sash are not sectarian songs- I don't like them, but they are NOT sectarian. If you read my post, you can see I said the monkey chanting "cannot be tolerated". As for the Billy Boys and other songs which ARE sectarian- they should not be tolerated either.


Why is it unacceptable for a minority of the Linfield fans (and it was a small minority) to be making monkey sounds at Eric Lavine, yet no big deal for them to be involved in sectarian chanting ? Anti-Catholic abuse is tolerated when it shouldn't be. It's unacceptable, just like anti-Protestant abuse or rascist abuse is unacceptable.
I never said it was ok for them to be involved in sectarian chanting. Its just as bad as racist chanting and has no place in any football ground, or anywhere else for that matter.


So you're cool with the songs about the Pope being dead then Eanna.......? You didn't mention it above. Sure anyway, t'was only a wee song......
I didn't hear those songs, but of course they're not acceptable.

All I was saying is that the likelihood is that these morons were singing these songs to get a reaction, and ignoring (i.e. not reacting) them is quite possibly
the best way to shut them up. the likes of these fools only perform when they have an audience

[patsh]

tictok I was using cork as an example in a response to DCFCSteve comment (couldn't use Galway cause were not in it :confused: ) and it was on the topic it was to do with them playing Linfield and I do wonder if they will be as calm as the Longford lot!!
And why wouldn't we be calm?
Do you think there is some massive horde of orange-bashing, Protestant burning, Linfield haters just waiting to be insulted and offended by a few "Linfield fans" so we can attack them?....:rolleyes:

[gypsyfella]

God Save the Queen is not a racist or anti-catholic song. It is the national anthem of six counties of this island and the Linfield fans are well within their rights to sing it when they travel abroad to a soccer match.


MWAHAHAHAHHAHAHA!!! LOL

you're tryign to get someone to bite??? :)
its an anti-scottish song for one thing. The 6 counties is not a 'nation' so it has not got GSTQ as its 'national' anthem. they didnt travel 'abroad'...
****!

[Éanna]

MWAHAHAHAHHAHAHA!!! LOL

you're tryign to get someone to bite??? :)
its an anti-scottish song for one thing. The 6 counties is not a 'nation' so it has not got GSTQ as its 'national' anthem. they didnt travel 'abroad'...
****!
it is the national anthem of the representative team of northern ireland in interntaional football. thats a fact. whether you like it or not.

[thejollyrodger]

TBH the anti catholic songs dont really offend me as much now, they can come down here, wear rangers jerseys, sing god save the king etc, all they like as long as there is no violance.

There is always going to be that element in some northern protestant clubs up north. Its going to take a while to stamp it out. The best we can hope for is the status quo.

I think the longford fans did brilliantly last night just to ignore them and not react. Its the best policy. Sooner or later clubs can be identified as inciting hatred and get fined accordingly. Maybe sentanta can think up imagative ideas like prize money for best supporters or fair play.

At the end of the day its about football and winning matches. Linfield came away with 0 points last night and a few sing songs and flags isnt going to change that. :)

[A face]

Any Linfield fans out there and we might get their side of things ..... it being totally onside up until now.

[dortie]

No, you're taking me up ALL wrong here. I was pointing out that GSTQ and the Sash are not sectarian songs- I don't like them, but they are NOT sectarian.

Sometimes i wonder about you lad. Go read the lyrics of the Sash, up to their neck in fenian blood aint sectarian is it ???

Why be an apologist for sectarian loyalist thugs ??? Thats what was wrong with 'moderate' nationalists up here for too long until they wised up to it.

[dcfcsteve]

Any Linfield fans out there and we might get their side of things ..... it being totally onside up until now.

There was a URL link earlier in this thread into the Linfield section of the Irish League Forum. Keep up, A Face.... :p http://www.irishleagueforums.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=29001&perpage=15&pagenumber=1

The overwhelming majority of posters on there are, to use a Northern phrase, 'scundered' by what happened. They've also mentioned singing of what are called "party songs" and anti-pope songs in pubs before the game, Nazi salutes during God Save the Queen, and a few cars having their windows smashed just outside Longford.

Thankfully the vast majority of Linfield fans also abhorr this sort of behaviour, and it seems to have been hangers on who were primarily responsible.

[dcfcsteve]

No, you're taking me up ALL wrong here. I was pointing out that GSTQ and the Sash are not sectarian songs

Eanna - as I mentioned in an earlier post, it is not just the words alone that make the singing of certain songs sectarian. The context and intentions of those singing them also have to be considered. A small minority of hangers-on at a Linfield game singing GSTQ randomly in a football match in the Republic is clearly intended by those singing it as an inflammatory/sectarian/triumphalist gesture. The song "No surrender to the IRA" isn't sectarian, but would you assert that English fans singing it at Irish fans was completely devoid of sectarian/rascist intent/undertones ?

There's a famous American song called 'The South will rise again'. Whilst it doesn't contain a jot of rascist lyrics, it is an anthem of the white supremacist movement in the southern states, as a result of what the Confederate States are construed to have stood for in the US Civil War. Singing that at a crowd of black people would therefore be construed as rascist and inflammatory, even if it doesn't contain any rascist words.

The German national anthem isn't rascist, yet if we all sang it at the home game against Israel in June you can be damn sure it would go down like a sh!t sandwich. Yet if Israel played Germany it would be acceptable. Why ? Because of the context and intentions of those singing it.

Waving the British Union flag in itself isn't necessarily a sectarian gesture. Do it as Linfield fans at a game in Longford, and the context gives it a somewhat different meaning. Those waving the flag know full-well that doing so at such a game would be construed by many as provocative, so to do so deliberately would signla ill intentions. Likewise, the Confederate flag in the US is construed as rascist when used deliberately to provocate black people, yet it's not sectarian when it's waved at games in Ireland featuring 'The Rebel County'. It's all about the context and the intentions....

I've been in an Indian household here in London where the family has a big carpet in the Living Room with a huge swastika on it. The swastika is an ancient Hindu religious symbol - ironically appropriated by arch-rascist Adolf Hitler. If I walked into a white working class home in the Isle of Dogs (Millwall's heartland) and they had a carpet with a swastika on it, it would be correct for me to construe that the context and intentions were somewhat different in having that there.

Anti-Catholocism in Ireland has been around for so long that it's even tolerated, ignored or considered inoffensive by many Catholics themselves now! That is tragic. We need to wake-up and accept that having songs sang with lyrics or the intention of insulting Catholics is as wrong as singing songs or conducting gestures that are intended to insult/hurt any other religious or racial group. It's not just about words alone, it's also about the clear and obvious intention.

It's time for the 'Croppies' to no longer simply "lie down"....

[Bald Student]

The German national anthem isn't rascist, yet if we all sang it at the home game against Israel in June you can be damn sure it would go down like a sh!t sandwich. Yet if Israel played Germany it would be acceptable.I agree entirely, just as it is acceptable for a team from the UK to sing their national anthem and wave their national flag.

I wasn't at the match so I don't know what else they sang or did but I disagree with the indo's implication that the british national anthem is sectarien.

[gspain]

Sometimes i wonder about you lad. Go read the lyrics of the Sash, up to their neck in fenian blood aint sectarian is it ???

Why be an apologist for sectarian loyalist thugs ??? Thats what was wrong with 'moderate' nationalists up here for too long until they wised up to it.

The Billy Boys contains the line "up to our knees (maybe it is necks though) in Fenian blood" - either way sectarian.

The Sash lyrics are below - nothing offensive that I see although it is viewed as such

you can even hear it here

http://cityofoaks.home.netcom.com/tunes/SashMyFatherWore.html

Sure I'm an Ulster Orangeman,
From Erin's Isle I came,
To see my British brethren
All of honour and of fame,
And to tell them of my forefathers
Who fought in days of yore,
That I might have the right to wear,
The sash my father wore!
Chorus:
It is old, but it is beautiful,
And its colors they are fine
It was worn at Derry, Aughrim,
Enniskillen and the Boyne.
My father wore it as a youth
In bygone days of yore
And on the Twelfth I love to wear
The sash my father wore.

For those brave men who crossed the Boyne
Have not fought or died in vain
Our Unity, Religion, Laws,
And Freedom to maintain,
If the call should come we'll follow the drum,
And cross that river once more
That tomorrow's Ulsterman may wear
The sash my father wore!
Chorus

And when some day, across the sea
To Antrim's shore you come,
We'll welcome you in royal style,
To the sound of flute and drum
And Ulster's hills shall echo still,
From Rathlin to Dromore
As we sing again the loyal strain
Of the sash my father wore!

Chorus


Note if the above is sectarian then the London Irish club should also apologise for that ditty they sang at Windsor in 1988

The Cap that Big Jack wore

It is old but it is beautiful and it's colour it was grey
It was worn at Stuttgart Sofia....

And on the 12th (June of course :D )
we proudly wear the cap that Big Jack wore......

[gspain]

Anti-Catholocism in Ireland has been around for so long that it's even tolerated, ignored or considered inoffensive by many Catholics themselves now! That is tragic. We need to wake-up and accept that having songs sang with lyrics or the intention of insulting Catholics is as wrong as singing songs or conducting gestures that are intended to insult/hurt any other religious or racial group. It's not just about words alone, it's also about the clear and obvious intention.

It's time for the 'Croppies' to no longer simply "lie down"....

While you are correct in everything you say and while your own club's fans and Longford fans have behaved impeccably in recent weeks there are still problems with sectarianism from both nationalists and unionists on this island.

I'm sure if you visit Loyalist or Republican drinking dens you'll hear an awful lot worse.

Last night was a few drunk ********s singing party songs.

[Docboy]

What absolute b**sh**t. Obviously the 35,000 who were in Paris were all "fair weather supporters". Many of those who travel regularly to support the Republic have a keen interest in the eircom League. If you travelled you would know that. There are others who have a passing interest in the eircom League and others who would rather spend their money travelling to Celtic Park, Anfield or Highbury. It's their money. Who am I (or you, for that matter) to tell them how to spend their own time and money?[/QUOTE]

Spot on brother,there are far too many posters here who look down on others and feel like they are only thro supporters. Cack!!