Republic of Ireland V Denmark - Saturday, 13th October 2018 - UEFA Nations League

[shakermaker1982]

I think that performance last night was to keep MO’N in a job & there is no shame in that. The plan was to stay compact. If we opened up last night and got tore apart again he’d have been under so much pressure his position would have been untenable.

We lack ball players. Persisting with the likes of Walters & McClean is only going to lead us to direct football.

I’m expecting another borefest Tuesday night but hopefully by time next set of fixtures come around Rice has agreed to come back.

[mark12345]

That’s adorable, thinking MON and co would play better football if they had better players. The pair of them can’t coach teams in the modern era and that won’t change even if they have better players, it’s the fact they are turds.

Better what did you call them? Players.....was it? You actually called them players?
If a barman couldn't pull a pint would you call him a barman? If a mechanic couldn't fix your car would you call him a mechanic?
Forget Martin O'Neill and Roy Keane. It has nothing to do with them at this stage.
It is all about those imposters in green shirts who are making you part with your hard earned money under false pretenses.

[Cathalsmart]

Better what did you call them? Players.....was it? You actually called them players?
If a barman couldn't pull a pint would you call him a barman? If a mechanic couldn't fix your car would you call him a mechanic?
Forget Martin O'Neill and Roy Keane. It has nothing to do with them at this stage.
It is all about those imposters in green shirts who are making you part with your hard earned money under false pretenses.

MON and ROY organise the team and set the team up to play a certain way, you reap what you sow here.

[brine3]

I played football weekly for 20 years or so and followed every Irish match of the Irish team for three decades. I'm on a break since the 5-1 last year.

What annoys me is that we are not really trying to play football. We have become a even more rubbish version of England pre-Southgate in that our management and squad think that we can win with fight, passion, belief and manliness. That's mystical bla bla, I have to time for that. It's depressing to watch.

Why even bother taking part in football tournaments if we don't try to play football? It's like showing up at the Olympic Diving competition and doing cannonballs. You'll get nowhere. People say we don't have the players but how do we know if we don't even try to play football? These players are all professional footballers with experience at decent clubs.

So, after 10 years of Trap and O'Neill (make that 12 years if you include the shambles that was Pinger), there's only so much torture my eyeballs can take.

Respect to those of you who still put up with it. Youse would make good prisoners of war. Unbreakable to the end.

At the same time, I think the fans need it to be made known that we can't be taken for granted. The FAI can't rely on us to just show up, buy tickets and fill the coffers year after year.

[mark12345]

I played football weekly for 20 years or so and followed every Irish match of the Irish team for three decades. I'm on a break since the 5-1 last year.

What annoys me is that we are not really trying to play football. We have become a even more rubbish version of England pre-Southgate in that our management and squad think that we can win with fight, passion, belief and manliness. That's mystical bla bla, I have to time for that. It's depressing to watch.

Why even bother taking part in football tournaments if we don't try to play football? It's like showing up at the Olympic Diving competition and doing cannonballs. You'll get nowhere. People say we don't have the players but how do we know if we don't even try to play football? These players are all professional footballers with experience at decent clubs.

So, after 10 years of Trap and O'Neill (make that 12 years if you include the shambles that was Pinger), there's only so much torture my eyeballs can take.

Respect to those of you who still put up with it. Youse would make good prisoners of war. Unbreakable to the end.

At the same time, I think the fans need it to be made known that we can't be taken for granted. The FAI can't rely on us to just show up, buy tickets and fill the coffers year after year.

Thank God Above! Finally somebody who calls a spade a spade.

[SkStu]

It's like showing up at the Olympic Diving competition and doing cannonballs. You'll get nowhere.

At least that would be fun to watch.

We don’t have the players is a nonsense argument. You could point to many other countries who have the same type of talent pool to pick from and can produce decent and effective displays and results.

Our players can produce performances week in week out in the top 2 English leagues. Why can’t they do the same with us? Because our management team cannot find, coach, deploy a coherent system. And claim they don’t have enough time to. WT absolute F planning do they do between intl breaks apart from crisis management of their own doing.

Lazy as F and they need to get gone.

[geysir]

I've just got home. Truly awful. It's getting harder to justify the drive for this with every passing game.

passing game??? what passing game?

[mark12345]

MON and ROY organise the team and set the team up to play a certain way, you reap what you sow here.

Let's assume O'Neill and Keane are the worst managers that ever drew breath. How does it stop our players from actually playing football when they cross the white lines?
As an Irish player you suddenly develop amnesia about all the internationals of the last few years when you hoofed the ball long for 90 minutes and got no reward?
You forget how to show for a ball, how to play a one two? How to spring a quick counter-attack? How to take an aerial ball on your chest instead of heading it back to the opposition?

You are spot on - you reap what you sow.

[jbyrne]

Our players can produce performances week in week out in the top 2 English leagues.


apart from duffy, doherty and coleman, when fit, what players are producing performances week in week out?

most of our players are in and out of their teams most of the time.

[mark12345]

I think that performance last night was to keep MO’N in a job & there is no shame in that. The plan was to stay compact. If we opened up last night and got tore apart again he’d have been under so much pressure his position would have been untenable.

We lack ball players. Persisting with the likes of Walters & McClean is only going to lead us to direct football.

I’m expecting another borefest Tuesday night but hopefully by time next set of fixtures come around Rice has agreed to come back.

Question for you. If you could wave a magic wand and be granted one of the following wishes, which would it be?
Have Declan Rice come on board and hope that he will be the player that totally transforms Ireland's style of play?
Or see a coaching system put in place which develops Irish kids to actually play proper football (like, I dunno let me think of a country that does it with a similar population - yeah I got it - Uruguay)

[osarusan]

We don’t have the players is a nonsense argument. You could point to many other countries who have the same type of talent pool to pick from and can produce decent and effective displays and results.

Our players can produce performances week in week out in the top 2 English leagues. Why can’t they do the same with us? Because our management team cannot find, coach, deploy a coherent system. And claim they don’t have enough time to. WT absolute F planning do they do between intl breaks apart from crisis management of their own doing.


This is what I think too. We can see some examples around Europe of teams whose players are not better than ours overall, but whose team performances are clearly better than ours. They show just how much can be achieved by adopting a system which best exploits the resources at their disposal.

For the money available for the management team, we should absolutely expect no less than that, but we are not getting anywhere near it.

It is that simple for me - the FAI are paying enough to expect a management team who can consistently produce a team that is at least the sum of its parts, but the management team are consistently failing to do that.

[samhaydenjr]

a bit of over reaction to last nights game here i think. denmark are currently ranked 10th and even without eriksen are a very good team. we looked more solid than we have for the last 11 months and the last 20 mins saw some decent enough build up play from us. a decent step steadying the ship imo... 6.5/10 performance for me.

the north with all their alleged better football regularly end up with less than 40% possession. not all that rosy for them as is made out.

the reaction here to christie in ctre mid is disappointing and smacks of contradiction. on the one hand mon is accused of being conservative and out of touch but when he tries something new, like chistie in ctre mid, is ridiculed. alaba plays full back for his club but ctre mid for his country. not putting christie in the same category yet but i thought he won the ball back well on a number of occasions and his athletisim around the midfield was good. no harm trying it and should be given more than one match before the knives are produced! worth another look for me.

i liked the look of our defence last night and throw mccarthy, coleman and brady into the mix and we may see much better by the euro qualifiers proper. re- capturing rice would be a real bonus


A bit of over reaction? I am surprised there is not a mountain more of criticism on here for what is one of the worst teams in Europe (and to think that some people on here choose to blame MON and RK first, before
the players on the pitch, is actually laughable). Denmark may be ranked wherever but what was to stop the Irish lads playing like Denmark did last night?
After all none of the Danes are playing for the Real Madrids, Man Citys, Barcelonas and Bayern Munichs of the world. They are the same level of player as our lads yet they passed us to
death last night. And their intelligent play almost won them the game. At no time did we ever look like threatening them if it was not from a free kick or a throw in (and we made a real hash of some of the free kicks).
Look, when you plant Shane Long at center forward and belt the ball long to him within the first 30 seconds, then the opposition know that we don't have much going for us and boy were they right.

Best thing that can happen for Irish football is a Welsh victory on Tuesday night. Time to tear it all down and build a different model. I am hearing good things about the U-19's and U-17's, let's hope they can
actually play the game, not like this bunch.

I'm going to agree with jbyrne here in saying that there seems to be a bit of an overreaction to the performance (although I will admit I didn't see the game and will accept that our play was pretty poor and unadventurous)

While it's true that Denmark's players are not are not at the absolute top teams, they are still mostly EPL, Bundesliga, Serie A, La Liga, Ligue 1 and Ajax players, which would be considered "top-tier" - by that definition 9 of their 12 who played last night play for "top-tier" teams, compared to 7 of our 14. While they were (thankfully) missing Eriksen, we were missing four EPL players (Coleman, Ward, Brady and McCarthy) plus two of our current striking options (Walters and Maguire). So a 0-0 draw against a team that took Croatia to penalties in the World Cup is a creditable result, especially after the two competitive hammerings we'd received, even if the performance was poor.

We also need to have a bit of perspective about the nature of this Nations League tournament and what it means to us. While it would be nice to top the group, get a second seeding for the qualifiers and get promoted to League A for next time around, even relegation to League C after a couple of losses and poor performances this time around would not be a disaster - even if we finish third and don't qualify through the regular qualifiers, we will still get a last-chance shot in the play-offs in March 2020 as long as no more than 4 teams from League C qualify through the "traditional" route. If 5 or 6 do, then last night's point could yet prove to be instrumental in ensuring we get that shot - it could also keep us in the League B play-offs, rather than getting dragged up to the League A play-offs. Note - two teams in League B currently have 0 points and one other has 1. It also keeps us in contention for a second-place position that would make us second-seeds for the main qualifiers.

So we still have something to play for in the Nations League tournament itself. However, we are still a team in transition, both in terms of formation and players. I know MON has come in for a lot of criticism for stubbornly sticking to a particular style of play, but he seems to be using this time to test a new formation (3-5-2/3-5-1-1) which, after a rocky start, seems to be starting to fit us. In terms of players, between retirements and injuries to key players, he appears to have been given lemons, but at least seems to be trying to make lemonade out of it by giving as many new players as is reasonable a chance to establish themselves in time for the main qualifiers. Last night seven players who I think are not yet fully established internationals got some valuable experience (Doherty, K Long, Arter, O'Dowda, Stevens, Robinson and O'Brien). This gives us a deeper pool of players to choose from come the March games. As a result, by the time those last-shot play-offs come around, we will have a better squad than we do now. We may even be able to add a couple of more options, if players like Jimmy Dunne, Aaron Connolly, Caoimhin Kelleher, Ronan Curtis and Josh Cullen advance their careers over the course of this season.

So I utterly disagree with mark12345, who says the best thing is to lose to Wales and tear everything down to build a different model - I know there are issues with MONKEANO (particularly the KEANO part) but O'Neill is already building a somewhat different model, albeit of necessity, and should be given a shot to see it through. In his two campaigns so far he has achieved the upper end of our reasonable expectations in one (reaching the last 16 in Euro 2016) and the lower end of our reasonable expectations in the other (second in the group, knocked out in the play-offs, albeit badly). I think he is still well capable of getting us through to the Euro 2020 finals and at this point we should only start talking about getting rid of him if he fails to do so or if the main qualifiers start really terribly and/or there is more trouble in the camp. After all, Mick McCarthy took three attempts to get us through to a major tournament.

[SkStu]

apart from duffy, doherty and coleman, when fit, what players are producing performances week in week out?

most of our players are in and out of their teams most of the time.

The following players out of the most recent squad have appeared in greater than 75% of their teams league games this season:

Randolph
Duffy
Christie
Keogh
Egan
Stevens
Lenihan
McClean
Hendrick
Arter
O’Dowda
Hourihane
Williams
Browne
Long
Robinson
O’Brien

K Long, Clark, Williams, Meyler - not regulars
Maguire, Hogan - injures for most of season, regulars at time of injury.
McDermott - not the top 2 English leagues but regular.
Doyle - not in top 2 English leagues, not regular.

[Fixer82]

my main points were:

- over reaction to how bad it was:
i stick by this. some positive performances from our defence, stevens and robinson, when they came on, and christie.

- we looked more solid than we did for past 11 months:
we did

- criticism of mon over picking christie in midfield:
christie was probably the pick our ctre mids. definately from a defensive point of view.

- the additon of coleman, brady and mccarthy may see us much better by the start of the euros proper:
obvious

- getting rice on board would be a real bonus.
also obvious.

nothing i say above suggests brilliance or close to it but if i see improvement in certain areas and some light at the end of the tunnel i will call it.

saying that wales beating us would be good for irish football isnt over reaction???? please....


I agree.
Total overreaction.
We looked far more solid than we have in a year.
It’s an improvement.

[Cathalsmart]

Let's assume O'Neill and Keane are the worst managers that ever drew breath. How does it stop our players from actually playing football when they cross the white lines?
As an Irish player you suddenly develop amnesia about all the internationals of the last few years when you hoofed the ball long for 90 minutes and got no reward?
You forget how to show for a ball, how to play a one two? How to spring a quick counter-attack? How to take an aerial ball on your chest instead of heading it back to the opposition?

You are spot on - you reap what you sow.

Either our players are as bad as the players from San Marino, Andorra, Lichtenstein, Malta etc or it’s the embarrassingly amateurish coaching staff, take you’re pick. The free kick that Cyrus Christie was supposed to receiving in the 2nd half sums up this coaching staff.

[seanfhear]

If O’Neill was giving the Irish job the respect it deserves would he not jettison Roy Keane . Keane is a way more trouble than any coaching ability that he brings which appears to be very little .

The O’Neill managerial-ship could do with a coaching over-hall . Its time for O’Neill to bite the Bullet and tell Keane how it is . He then should be looking out for a coach that is willing and able to put the work in .

If O’Neill is unwillingly to go this way then he should leave with Roy Keane .

[brine3]

Why should the assistant manager take the blame and the actual manager get off scot free? Surely they must go as a pair? O'Neill is responsible for team selection, tactics and coaching. End of story.

[passinginterest]

Maybe, just maybe this is the most leaderless and talentless group of players we've ever had. Maybe it's the most directionless and tactically poor management team we've ever had. I'm inclined to think it's a perfect storm of old school management meets new school players and there's a fundamental breakdown in between.

One of the biggest criticisms of modern players is that they're over coached and have lost the ability to express themselves on the pitch. That's not just in terms of skill, that's adaptability too. They're coached specifically to play in systems and told where to be and when to be there on the pitch. When they meet a coaching team that just picks the team and expects them to figure it out for themselves, they're lost and that's evident on the pitch. There's not enough quality or leadership there to cover over the lack of a well defined and coached system.

O'Neill loves athletic players like McLean and Christie because they play more like the old school, they use their athleticism to cover ground and negate the lack of technical quality or a clear system. While we don't have a huge amount of quality coming through a lot of the players in the current squad are more technical and less physical, particularly around the midfield, players like Hourihan, Browne, Williams, Arter, Hendrick, O'Dowda. They've all proven to be decent players at premier league and championship level, yet they've all looked a bit lost in an Ireland jersey. For me that comes down to a lack of instruction and coaching from the management team, just as much as a lack of character and quality from the players.

[Stuttgart88]

I agree. I heard this morning that Christie was only told where he was playing an hour before KO but that he had an inkling because of training. He has never played senior football in central midfield before.

[seanfhear]

I agree. I heard this morning that Christie was only told where he was playing an hour before KO but that he had an inkling because of training. He has never played senior football in central midfield before.
Apparently hadn’t played that position since he was 14 .

I though he did ok for a player that had not played that position much . Another option for him for club and country . It worked reasonably well even though its not very good offensively . It will be interesting to see if they do it again against Wales . for some reason I doubt it . Wales would be fore-warned and would probably plan better to take advantage of a player playing in a position he is not experienced in .

[OwlsFan]

Not sure if I agree with jbyrne on this one. I generally don't mind the performance if we get a result. I didn't expect us to win so I wasn't hugely disappointed with a draw but the performance from an attacking point of view was one of the worst I have EVER seen following Ireland. Three shots in the whole of 90 minutes in a home game (i.e. a shot ever 30 minutes). Even against Germany we had 5.

By the end of the game we only had one recognised central midfielder on the pitch. Are we now a Liechtenstein or Malta who only play for a draw against higher rated sides even when at home? We didn't press them. We sat back. Even McClean barely had a run at them. Yes, we kept a clean sheet but at what price? The "signing section" even lost their voice until awoken from their slumber in the last 5 minutes. We brought on a full back to replace Arter if I remember correctly. It was stultifyingly boring.

But eaten bread is soon forgotten and we move on to Wales who are also without their one world class player. Please put them under pressure. Do not respect them. Let's try and get the old tempo back. Don't allow their back 4 (5)(3) whatever time on the ball. I am not bothered whether it's hoof ball or poof ball or whatever. What I want is raise the roof ball.

[zero]

It was poor on Saturday but unsurprisingly so, which in turn has led me to be surprised by the reaction. It was always going to be a backs to the wall to protect our goal and hope to nick one from a set piece type approach.

I think the 5-3-2 worked ok though as others have said it does not suit McClean. It is difficult to accomodate all of O'Neill's 'undroppables' in such a formation. I would consider the undroppables (assuming fitness) as:

Randolph
Coleman
McClean
Duffy
Hendrick
Walters

Is O'Dowda now one too? I hope not. Maybe Brady when fit meets the criteria, and Christie seems to be edging into this territory - certainly when Coleman is not available.

[marinobohs]

Saturday night was baaaaad. Even without Ericsson we were outplayed for most of the game by a very average Danish side. solid enough in defence to be fair but nothing in midfield and, despite Long working his socks off we created almost nothing. seemed as if both teams were happy enough to share the points.
a bad result on Tuesday and I think MO'N should consider his position.

[sbgawa]

We are going nowhere with O Neill, I'd love to see a change and a manager brought in that tries to play football.
At the moment O Neill is managing to combine terrible football with terrible results.
At least if we played football and had bad results you could enjoy the game.

[sbgawa]

Why even bother taking part in football tournaments if we don't try to play football? It's like showing up at the Olympic Diving competition and doing cannonballs. You'll get nowhere. .

This is my fav analogy of Irelands current "football" team......Kudos

[tetsujin1979]

We brought on a full back to replace Arter if I remember correctly. It was stultifyingly boring. Robinson came on for Arter, made a very positive contribution

[seanfhear]

It was poor on Saturday but unsurprisingly so, which in turn has led me to be surprised by the reaction. It was always going to be a backs to the wall to protect our goal and hope to nick one from a set piece type approach.

I think the 5-3-2 worked ok though as others have said it does not suit McClean. It is difficult to accomodate all of O'Neill's 'undroppables' in such a formation. I would consider the undroppables (assuming fitness) as:

Randolph
Coleman
McClean
Duffy
Hendrick
Walters

Is O'Dowda now one too? I hope not. Maybe Brady when fit meets the criteria, and Christie seems to be edging into this territory - certainly when Coleman is not available.I don’t want to be too pessimistic about Walters but are we going to see much more of Walters in an Irish jersey ? Serious Injury , Old particularly for a forward ....It ain’t looking good .

[zero]

I don’t want to be too pessimistic about Walters but are we going to see much more of Walters in an Irish jersey ? Serious Injury , Old particularly for a forward ....It ain’t looking good .

Agreed, I added him as he had been a guaranteed starter up til this point. I would expect we'll see him once or twice more off the bench but that's about it...

[marinobohs]

We are going nowhere with O Neill, I'd love to see a change and a manager brought in that tries to play football.
At the moment O Neill is managing to combine terrible football with terrible results.
At least if we played football and had bad results you could enjoy the game.

Fully agree. Even allowing for the limited resources (player wise) we have the current set up is dire. Time for a fresh face to try and maximize what (little) we have.

[mark12345]

Either our players are as bad as the players from San Marino, Andorra, Lichtenstein, Malta etc or it’s the embarrassingly amateurish coaching staff, take you’re pick. The free kick that Cyrus Christie was supposed to receiving in the 2nd half sums up this coaching staff.

Our players are as bad as, and I would suggest worse off technically in many cases, than the players of those countries you mention. That is to say that if you put them in a tight spot where optimal ball control is needed or a congested midfield where quick and incisive passing is needed, our lads, most of them anyway would come out second best. Noticable on Saturday that 3 of our best technical players, Williams, Horgan and Judge (not sure about his injury status) were not used.

And the free kick you are talking about - I know there were 3 they screwed up - neither O' Neill nor Keane was responsible for that poor execution

[Cathalsmart]

Our players are as bad as, and I would suggest worse off technically in many cases, than the players of those countries you mention. That is to say that if you put them in a tight spot where optimal ball control is needed or a congested midfield where quick and incisive passing is needed, our lads, most of them anyway would come out second best. Noticable on Saturday that 3 of our best technical players, Williams, Horgan and Judge (not sure about his injury status) were not used.

And the free kick you are talking about - I know there were 3 they screwed up - neither O' Neill nor Keane was responsible for that poor execution

If they were they wouldn’t be playing professionally... stop embarrassing yourself please.

[tetsujin1979]

Cathal, attack the post, not the poster

[Drumcondra 69er]

https://afalsefirstxi.blogspot.com/2018/10/nothing-fresh-in-this-stale-danish.html

Usual blog on match for anyone interested.

[Cathalsmart]

Cathal, attack the post, not the poster

Am I attacking the poster? I’m helping him not dig this hole any deeper.
Fair to say he doesn’t watch San Marino, Andorra, Lichtenstein regularly enough yet is able to say their players (who are mostly amateur) are on par with players we have playing Championship level at least...cmon I know there are idiotic posts on here all the time but surely this is a new low?

[mark12345]

If they were they wouldn’t be playing professionally... stop embarrassing yourself please.

Embarrassing myself? Do you mean like those players who played on Saturday embarrassed themselves?
Just to follow your logic - England had 'players playing professionally' between 1966 and 2018.
It has taken them half a century to realize that the 'up and at em every ball a long ball approach' is only for the cavemen.

Let me go through the list of the players who played on Saturday.

Randolph - Decent keeper. Could also adapt to the modern game by offering himself as an outlet pass which keepers at top clubs are now doing.

Duffy - Hulk of a lad. You won't beat him in the air and he poses a threat from set pieces, but not equipped to build moves from the back a la the modern day intl defender.
Kevin Long - A lesser version of Duffy with less experience and ability at this point in his career. Not likely to set the heather blazing by the looks of things.
Keogh - Enthusiastic and commited to cause, but technical ability is not his strong point. Feels comfortable, like Long just belting it down Route 1.

Hendrick - Not creative in the least. Massive disappointment in a timid and collectively worthless midfield
Arter - Tries hard and appears quite purposeful at times. But his worth, whatever it is, is stifled in such surroundings.
Christie - Weak when attacked. Has shown some ability when going forward, but technical ability limits him also.
Doherty - An ok performance on Saturday. Looks promising but too early to predict his future.

McClean - Heart on his sleeve as always. Has ability to take on a player but rarely in sync with teammates because he's a lone wolf trying to gin up performance levels among them.
A player from a bygone era, just like the team he plays for.
Shane Long - Does really well in the air for a man his size, but does literally nothing else. Hasn't scored for a long time - would be nice if he could even miss a few chances at this stage.
Should not have started for Ireland for this or several games before it.
O'Dowda - Promising player. Can take on and beat Championship defenders. Some potential there, but getting lost in sea of mediocrity at this point.

[Charlie Darwin]

Embarrassing myself? Do you mean like those players who played on Saturday embarrassed themselves?
Just to follow your logic - England had 'players playing professionally' between 1966 and 2018.
It has taken them half a century to realize that the 'up and at em every ball a long ball approach' is only for the cavemen.

Let me go through the list of the players who played on Saturday.

Randolph - Decent keeper. Could also adapt to the modern game by offering himself as an outlet pass which keepers at top clubs are now doing.

Duffy - Hulk of a lad. You won't beat him in the air and he poses a threat from set pieces, but not equipped to build moves from the back a la the modern day intl defender.
Kevin Long - A lesser version of Duffy with less experience and ability at this point in his career. Not likely to set the heather blazing by the looks of things.
Keogh - Enthusiastic and commited to cause, but technical ability is not his strong point. Feels comfortable, like Long just belting it down Route 1.

Hendrick - Not creative in the least. Massive disappointment in a timid and collectively worthless midfield
Arter - Tries hard and appears quite purposeful at times. But his worth, whatever it is, is stifled in such surroundings.
Christie - Weak when attacked. Has shown some ability when going forward, but technical ability limits him also.
Doherty - An ok performance on Saturday. Looks promising but too early to predict his future.

McClean - Heart on his sleeve as always. Has ability to take on a player but rarely in sync with teammates because he's a lone wolf trying to gin up performance levels among them.
A player from a bygone era, just like the team he plays for.
Shane Long - Does really well in the air for a man his size, but does literally nothing else. Hasn't scored for a long time - would be nice if he could even miss a few chances at this stage.
Should not have started for Ireland for this or several games before it.
O'Dowda - Promising player. Can take on and beat Championship defenders. Some potential there, but getting lost in sea of mediocrity at this point.
Now do the same for the San Marino team that started tonight.

[Cathalsmart]

Embarrassing myself? Do you mean like those players who played on Saturday embarrassed themselves?
Just to follow your logic - England had 'players playing professionally' between 1966 and 2018.
It has taken them half a century to realize that the 'up and at em every ball a long ball approach' is only for the cavemen.

Let me go through the list of the players who played on Saturday.

Randolph - Decent keeper. Could also adapt to the modern game by offering himself as an outlet pass which keepers at top clubs are now doing.

Duffy - Hulk of a lad. You won't beat him in the air and he poses a threat from set pieces, but not equipped to build moves from the back a la the modern day intl defender.
Kevin Long - A lesser version of Duffy with less experience and ability at this point in his career. Not likely to set the heather blazing by the looks of things.
Keogh - Enthusiastic and commited to cause, but technical ability is not his strong point. Feels comfortable, like Long just belting it down Route 1.

Hendrick - Not creative in the least. Massive disappointment in a timid and collectively worthless midfield
Arter - Tries hard and appears quite purposeful at times. But his worth, whatever it is, is stifled in such surroundings.
Christie - Weak when attacked. Has shown some ability when going forward, but technical ability limits him also.
Doherty - An ok performance on Saturday. Looks promising but too early to predict his future.

McClean - Heart on his sleeve as always. Has ability to take on a player but rarely in sync with teammates because he's a lone wolf trying to gin up performance levels among them.
A player from a bygone era, just like the team he plays for.
Shane Long - Does really well in the air for a man his size, but does literally nothing else. Hasn't scored for a long time - would be nice if he could even miss a few chances at this stage.
Should not have started for Ireland for this or several games before it.
O'Dowda - Promising player. Can take on and beat Championship defenders. Some potential there, but getting lost in sea of mediocrity at this point.

Thanks for that, could you please go through the San Marino,Andorran etc squads tell me about the players who are equal/better than our players, I genuinely and entrigued to find out how they are unable to pick up a professional contract yet the Irish players can.

[seanfhear]

Embarrassing myself? Do you mean like those players who played on Saturday embarrassed themselves?
Just to follow your logic - England had 'players playing professionally' between 1966 and 2018.
It has taken them half a century to realize that the 'up and at em every ball a long ball approach' is only for the cavemen.

Let me go through the list of the players who played on Saturday.

Randolph - Decent keeper. Could also adapt to the modern game by offering himself as an outlet pass which keepers at top clubs are now doing.

Duffy - Hulk of a lad. You won't beat him in the air and he poses a threat from set pieces, but not equipped to build moves from the back a la the modern day intl defender.
Kevin Long - A lesser version of Duffy with less experience and ability at this point in his career. Not likely to set the heather blazing by the looks of things.
Keogh - Enthusiastic and commited to cause, but technical ability is not his strong point. Feels comfortable, like Long just belting it down Route 1.

Hendrick - Not creative in the least. Massive disappointment in a timid and collectively worthless midfield
Arter - Tries hard and appears quite purposeful at times. But his worth, whatever it is, is stifled in such surroundings.
Christie - Weak when attacked. Has shown some ability when going forward, but technical ability limits him also.
Doherty - An ok performance on Saturday. Looks promising but too early to predict his future.

McClean - Heart on his sleeve as always. Has ability to take on a player but rarely in sync with teammates because he's a lone wolf trying to gin up performance levels among them.
A player from a bygone era, just like the team he plays for.
Shane Long - Does really well in the air for a man his size, but does literally nothing else. Hasn't scored for a long time - would be nice if he could even miss a few chances at this stage.
Should not have started for Ireland for this or several games before it.
O'Dowda - Promising player. Can take on and beat Championship defenders. Some potential there, but getting lost in sea of mediocrity at this point.
When you have no alternatives then you’d have to play to their strengths . Losing Rice is devastating at this stage even though turning him into the Messiah was probably misplaced . We probably need two quality ball playing midfielders to play the way we would like to play . Sure every team could do with two like that .

After the O’Neill / Keane era is over we may have to admit that if we want to play watchable football then we have to understand that being within a shout of qualifying will be a long shot . If we want to have watchable football we have to realise thereby very well be repercussions .

[Cathalsmart]

When you have no alternatives then you’d have to play to their strengths . Losing Rice is devastating at this stage even though turning him into the Messiah was probably misplaced . We probably need two quality ball playing midfielders to play the way we would like to play . Sure every team could do with two like that .

After the O’Neill / Keane era is over we may have to admit that if we want to play watchable football then we have to understand that being within a shout of qualifying will be a long shot . If we want to have watchable football we have to realise thereby very well be repercussions .

How are we playing to our strengths? before this game we conceded 9 goals in 2 games and the only reason Denmark didnt score was they were missing Eriksen.

I dont care about how watchable our football is as long as we are playing football. I dont know what ****e we are playing right now but it sure as hell isnt football.

[DeLorean]

After the O’Neill / Keane era is over we may have to admit that if we want to play watchable football then we have to understand that being within a shout of qualifying will be a long shot . If we want to have watchable football we have to realise thereby very well be repercussions .

Unfortunately I think this is a real possibility too. We could have Stephen Kenny trying to introduce a nice brand of football and all of a sudden those disappointing home draws are feeble, soft centred defeats. We've appointed two managers who I think the majority of people were incredibly excited by and both have decided that a cave man approach is our best chance of being competitive. Maybe that's just a reflection of where both were/are in their own managerial careers, set in their ways, outdated, lazy, etc. but I think it's worrying nonetheless. These guys aren't as clueless as some would have you believe.

[osarusan]

We've appointed two managers who I think the majority of people were incredibly excited by and both have decided that a cave man approach is our best chance of being competitive. Maybe that's just a reflection of where both were/are in their own managerial careers, set in their ways, outdated, lazy, etc. but I think it's worrying nonetheless. These guys aren't as clueless as some would have you believe.
I've never had a problem with the caveman approach when necessary. Away to Germany? Yep, put as many people behind the ball as possible and hoof it all night - it's our best chance of a result.

My issue when we adopt that same approach against teams who don't merit it, and when it isn't our best chance of a result. There'n no need to concede territory and possession to Georgia at home, but we did it anyway.

Different teams present different challenges, and need to be prepared for differently. A manager who has one way of playing regardless of the opposition isn't doing their job properly.

[Cathalsmart]

I've never had a problem with the caveman approach when necessary. Away to Germany? Yep, put as many people behind the ball as possible and hoof it all night - it's our best chance of a result.

My issue when we adopt that same approach against teams who don't merit it, and when it isn't our best chance of a result. There'n no need to concede territory and possession to Georgia at home, but we did it anyway.

Different teams present different challenges, and need to be prepared for differently. A manager who has one way of playing regardless of the opposition isn't doing their job properly.

Black and white as usual. I’d believe this argument if the two managers appointed were known for playing attacking football easy on the eye, neither are.

[Cathalsmart]

Still can’t believe after the abomination on Saturday anyone is actually trying to defend O’Neill, the stuff we did than I’d expect no less from a local team down the street, not an international team full of premier league and championship players managed by someone on millions.

[DeLorean]

I've never had a problem with the caveman approach when necessary. Away to Germany? Yep, put as many people behind the ball as possible and hoof it all night - it's our best chance of a result.

My issue when we adopt that same approach against teams who don't merit it, and when it isn't our best chance of a result. There'n no need to concede territory and possession to Georgia at home, but we did it anyway.

Different teams present different challenges, and need to be prepared for differently. A manager who has one way of playing regardless of the opposition isn't doing their job properly.

How much of that is down to the players and how much is down to the manager? We played Georgia twice at home, and although the scoreline was the same there was a huge contrast in the two performances. The night when Walters got the winner it was a tough slog, but we always looked the more likely and controlled the match far better. The night Coleman got the winner we were dreadful, they dominated the game and we were very lucky. I'm sure O'Neill, like the rest of us, would prefer our performance in the former example.

I don't think we approached either game in the same way as we did against Germany, we were just completely out-footballed in the second one (and in the Tblisi draw). Georgia went to Cardiff and dominated a far better footballing side than us too for long spells, it should be said. I doubt this was a deliberate tactic by Chris Coleman.

[Diggs246]

We are not the only team who are having a mare guys, look at Turkey, Holland, Cech Republic, Bulgaria etc

[DeLorean]

We are not the only team who are having a mare guys, look at Turkey, Holland, Cech Republic, Bulgaria etc

Not to mention the two nations who seem to have become the barometer by which all things are judged, Iceland & Northern Ireland. Exactly zero points between them in their six matches so far. Northern Ireland haven't scored a goal away from home in over a year and Iceland, granted in Group A, lost 6-0 to Switzerland.

[mark12345]

Am I attacking the poster? I’m helping him not dig this hole any deeper.
Fair to say he doesn’t watch San Marino, Andorra, Lichtenstein regularly enough yet is able to say their players (who are mostly amateur) are on par with players we have playing Championship level at least...cmon I know there are idiotic posts on here all the time but surely this is a new low?

I've seen those teams as much as the next person Cathal - which is very little. However when I've seen the likes of those teams what has struck me is exactly that. Many of their players are far better technically than ours and they play as a team more cohesively than ours. They at least try to play football which is the point of them being there (as someone pointed out earlier on this post). They invariably lose their games which is down to their populations / pool of players they have to choose from. I bet however I could walk onto the training ground of any of those teams and pick out a midfielder who can create far more than Jeff Hendrick or Glen Whelan before him (not difficult) and a center back who is more in sync with him than is Shane Duffy or Richard Keogh. Increase those teams above slightly in population, coaching structure and pool of players and you get Iceland. Increase it a little more than that and you get Sweden.

In regard to the management team you seem to be hung up on them and blinded by that fact. For full disclosure I called for Martin O'Neill to never be allowed near another Irish team following the Austria home game (he took two points which belonged to us that day and just threw them into the wind via his team selection). Fast forward to Tiblisi where we scored after 4 minutes and then gave up. That is not a figurative term - we literally gave up (stood in our own half and did nothing for 86 minutes). I have never seen anything like that in my life in any game of football in any part of the globe. I was still on the O'Neill must go kick at that point so I wanted him out even more at that time. But when you stop to think about it, where does the responsibility of the players start and end? Was there not one of them on the pitch in Tiblisi that night who said to his team mates: "Come on lads lets have a go at them, let's try to hit them on the counter and finish this thing off." I am no fan of O'Neill anymore but it has gone beyond that point, way beyond.

You are using the words 'idiotic' and saying this post is 'a new low'. I would agree with those words if you applied it to the current Irish team. The real proof is in the pudding Cathal. What I mean by this is that I have followed this Irish team since the early 1970's. We were evolving back then and there was journey to be travelled. However with Saturday's performance and those mentioned above, among others, there is a pattern which is very worrying about ths Ireland team. We have been left behind in the departure lounge. But this is something I said 20 years ago and you and I will be on here still debating the point in 20 years time if things don't change drastically.

[osarusan]

How much of that is down to the players and how much is down to the manager?

I think a lot of it is down to the manager and how he sets his team up. Much more than is down to the players.



I don't think we approached either game in the same way as we did against Germany, we were just completely out-footballed in the second one (and in the Tblisi draw).
I think the similarity is that we were overly conservative and cautious and didn't attack in enough numbers to hold on to the ball - we gave it away very cheaply and as a result were dominated by a team that were not afraid of holding on to it. Being needlessly conservative is a hallmark of O'Neill, in my opinion, just like Trap before him.

I don't think it's a deliberate tactic, but I do think being 'out-footballed' is a fairly predictable outcome of such tactics.

[DeLorean]

Yeah, on the balance I wouldn't disagree with that.

[brine3]

O'Neill is apparently known for springing selection surprises on players minutes before kickoff. Done it all throughout his career apparently.