Guardian Article on Kerr

[Stuttgart88]

Kerr's chicken approach could come home to roost

If Ireland don't qualify for the 2006 World Cup, Brian Kerr will be to blame, argues Paul Doyle.
Wednesday March 30, 2005

"What more hardship can a boy endure
than to be sat down behind the door,
and on his knees
no jug of punch,
and on his knees
no tidy wench"
- traditional Irish ditty

What more hardship? How about being sat behind the door and on his face, lots of egg, and on his face, a baffled frown. That could be Republic of Ireland manager Brian Kerr next October, after being run out of the job of his dreams for contriving to miss out on the 2006 World Cup. And let's be clear: if Ireland don't make it to Germany, then Kerr will certainly deserve his dismissal.

The problem is this: under Mick McCarthy the Irish played with confidence, under Kerr they play with fear. That was never more obvious than in last Saturday's foolish draw in Israel, the latest in a sorry series of almost-scandalous Irish surrenders under the Dubliner.

Until Kerr's reign, the most cowardly Irish performance of modern times had come in Zagreb in the qualifiers for Euro 2000. Three days after a swashbuckling 2-1 victory over an excellent Yugoslav side in Lansdowne Road, McCarthy took his men to Croatia effectively needing only a draw qualify for his first major tournament as a manager. Astonishingly, he chose to drop Robbie Keane, who had been sensational against the Yugoslavs, and deployed a 4-5-1 formation with the role of lone striker going to a creaking 37-year-old Tony Cascarino who, like Clinton Morrison against Israel last Saturday, was knackered after 20 minutes but wasn't replaced until the very end.

Operation infernal injustice wasn't thwarted until the second minute of injury time, when the visitors, who had spent the entire match in their own half, conceded what the Irish media brazenly branded a Suker-punch - Davor Suker pouncing to steal three points for the side that had spent the previous 91 minutes pummelling their visitors.

That defeat meant Ireland had to win their last match in Macedonia and they seemed on course to do just that when Niall Quinn fired them into the lead. However, the lesson of Zagreb still hadn't percolated into McCarthy's notoriously stubborn mind and rather than continue to assert their blatant superiority, they retreated and piled sandbags in front of their goal, inviting pressure that led, just like in Israel last Saturday, to another injury-time concession.

McCarthy could plausibly claim to have an excuse for such caution - he was a member of the Irish squad that was pipped by England to qualification for Euro 92 after carefree attacking saw them squander a 3-1 lead in Poland to draw 3-3.

His reaction to that was too extreme though and after the light finally dawned on him, a bold-but-not-reckless Ireland marched to Korea/Japan 2002. Kerr seems to have missed that last development.

Kerr was lucky to escape criticism for Ireland's failure to reach Euro 2004. The local media, which had campaigned long and loud for his appointment, insisted he had done as well as could be expected by guiding the team to third in the group after McCarthy had led them to defeats in their opening two games. That was a convenient excuse, but one that was nullified when Ireland's two main rivals, Russia and Switzerland, suffered surprise defeats themselves: by the time the Irish came to play them again, direct qualification was a distinct possibility, and a place in the play-offs the least that could be expected.

Instead, a listless Ireland drew with a ragged Russian side in Dublin and then lumbered over to Switzerland to deliver the most soulless Irish display in living memory on the way to a 2-0 defeat. Palpably, Kerr failed to motivate his men.

There were at least some promising signs ahead of the 2006 campaign. Not only had Kerr worked on one of the areas that McCarthy strangely neglected - set-pieces - but he also hinted that he'd picked up on at least one lesson the previous administration had learned, that playing your main group rivals away in the first few games can give a valuable advantage. Nevertheless, fans still awaited proof that Kerr could inject the sort of virility Irish teams had traditionally played with.

A facile 3-0 win over Cyprus didn't teach anyone much, so it wasn't until Ireland's second group game, in Switzerland, that worries began to fester. Just as in Israel last Saturday, Morrison gave the Irish an early lead against a team with a visibly shaky defence but then, inexplicably, they panicked and for the next 30 minutes were torn apart by drifting Swiss playmaker, Hakan Yakin, who operated unperturbed in the no-man's land between the uncharacteristically bemused Roy Keane and Kenny Cunningham. Only the agility of Shay Given saved Ireland from conceding more than one.

At half-time, the Irish belatedly came up with a plan for stifling Yakin, and once that was achieved it was the Boys in Green who enjoyed most possession and the rickety Swiss defenders who looked closest to collapse. Yet with victory in sight, the Irish refused to attack in earnest and seemed oddly content to let the game fizzle out into a draw. Two points lost.

Would it be too harsh to say that Ireland's 0-0 draw in their next match, against France in Paris, was also two points lost? No, it was undoubtedly an opportunity spurned. Helped in part by Raymond Domenech's decision to rile Claude Makelele into retirement, the French fielded an inexperienced midfield featuring 20-year-old debutant Rio Mavuba and frankly rubbish Alou Diarra. Roy Keane and Kevin "Zinedine" Kilbane had little trouble claiming the middle of the park for Ireland. Damien Duff was exhilarating down the left and Steve Finnan was in incisive form down the right, but again, Kerr clearly instructed his men to hold their fire and the chance to deal a critical blow to the group favourites was passed up.

Domenech's troops have drawn all of their home group matches 0-0 and if Kerr had invested Ireland with the courage to seize opportunities as they were presented to them, then the French would be effectively be out. Instead, Les Bleus go into tonight's match in Israel knowing that victory - which they will certainly secure even if David Trezeguet and Sylvain Wiltord continue their competition to see who can miss the most sitters in a campaign - will send them three points clear at the top of the group.

True, France, like Switzerland and the inept Israelis, still have to go to Dublin, where Kerr has an impressive record: 12 wins, four draws and no defeats. That record, however, was amassed mainly because Kerr takes friendlies more seriously than almost any other manager in the world. In his only true test at Lansdowne Road - against Russia when it mattered - Kerr's team flopped. And that has since become a bad habit. He'd better kick it quick.

[Stuttgart88]

I just put that article up there if anyone's interested in keeping the debate going.

The journalist says that Ireland are playing with fear, not confidence. Is this true? Did they always play with confidence under Mick? There are times, esp in some home friendlies, that Duff & Reid and others are let loose to do what they do best & it's pleasing on they eye.

That we didn't win in Paris wasn't down to a lack of ambition - we engaged France fully in a good game but failed, on one occasion very narrowly, to take our chances. But the journalist says they were "clearly instructed to hold their fire".

I've put my views down already in Reality Bites' thread: mainly that Kerr must take responsibility for his refusal to change things, but the players underperformed badly. Also, if left to do what they do best we're still a good side.

[Dawn_Run]

Maybe its down to the fact that we have been playing well as underdogs but fail to over-impress when favourites or in poll position?

[lopez]

Quite a few home truths there even if it's spoilt by the odd inaccuracy. e.g. '...he also hinted that he'd picked up on at least one lesson the previous administration had learned, that playing your main group rivals away in the first few games can give a valuable advantage.' (Portugal and Holland away in the 2002 World Cup qualifiers?).

What is a big difference to 2000 and last Saturday's side was the number of players who play their football with clubs in what is one of the top three leagues in Europe. In other words - no Football League players: the quality is there from the Premiership. He's right about 'gutless' performances. The Swiss game in 2003 was disgracefull. But he's also right about the Poland game of 1991 when Charlton went for a super-attacking 4-5-1 and it got the goals and then proceeded to concede them too. As for 'Kerr worked on one of the areas that McCarthy strangely neglected - set-pieces', he's having a laugh here, no? What set pieces did we see on Saturday that were vaguely threatening. There were at least three frees around the area that went straight to the keeper. At least one of them should have been shot at goal or do we not have a player who can send over a half decent free-kick?

I do hope Kerr proves us wrong and wins all his remaining matches. If he doesn't lead us to at least the play-offs, he has to go.

[drummerboy]

All will be revealed in the three home matches. Israel will play 10 men behind the ball and will be very hard to break down. Ireland seem to play better on the counter attack. When we have to chase goals we seem to be at our worse.

[OwlsFan]

Amazing stuff. I wouldn't be a huge Kerr fans but I find these attacks bizarre.

We have a team make up of two strikers who are not starting with their premiership teams, a full back and centre-half who similarly aren't regulars, the rest of the team is made up of average Premiership players apart from Duff, Given and Saipan Keane (75% of the player he once was but still excellent). By anyone's standards (except our own) this is not a team of world beaters yet:

(a) We are unbeaten and top our group (for the next few hours).

(b) We are ranked in the Top 15 in the World.

Take one look across the border or over to Scotland to see what we could be. I'm old enough to remember the bad days and trust me, it won't come much better than this with the current squad no matter who is in charge.

Kerr's honeymoon period has obviously run out but unless we don't qualify for this AND the next tournament under him (Mick Mc was given a few tournaments to qualify) then keep the knives in their sheaths for the moment.

[green army]

FFS, i think people are making a mountain out of a mole hill. yea, we didnt play well and we conseeded a 90min equaliser. we should be further ahead in the group but we are not.i honestly didnt expect the team to win all their matches in this group.we are top of the group.and home advantage against the other teams to come.Personally i dont want to be entertained. i want 3 points. i dont care if we play crap against france,swiss and isreal so long as we win and get the 3 points.it was hard to take against isreal but draw your away games and win your home games is what my dad always said.but beat cyprus and faroes away.there is still alot of football to be played.

[elroy]

i think if anything before the Israel game we would have being arguing that Kerr was a relatively attack minded coach with Ireland. We went and attacked France in Paris, attacked Georgia and Albania away from home last year(with limited success in tirana admittedly).
Swiss game we also tried to attack and despite a poor performance were unlucky to lose two nil.
Overall i still reserve judgement on kerr, one bad game doesnt make him a bad manager, if we get 7/9 points from the home games ill be happy and applaud (hopefully) him steering us to qualification

[Closed Account 2]

Yeah, we may yet win the home games and finish 1st or 2nd. Thats BK's plan (draw away, win at home) and at the moment we're on course (just). If we finish 3rd it has to go down as a failure. The fact is the group has panned out favourably for us in terms of opposition.

The French are not the force they once were, its like the Germans post Euro 96, theyre very much in transition, some good players but not at all cohesive.

The Swiss are almost the opposite, not too many good players but a decent team unit even so they are a beatable side... by the end we should have picked up 4 points in total off the games in Basle and at LR.

The Israelis appear(ed) to be strong for the 4th best team in the group, but they looked very ordinary on Saturday. We should have won that game in all honesty, and we simply have to beat them in June.

Looking at the quality of the opposition we should really have won one of these away matches. The other thing is I dont see our goal difference helping us should it come down to that. We've had our two easy games (Cyprus and Faroes at LR) and havent racked up the goals (didnt the Swiss put 5 past the Faroes?). This shortcoming means that we might have to get a win when a draw would otherwise have done. It also means were unlikely to get the bonus of being best two 2nd placed team (out of all of the groups) and so avoid the play offs.

[brine3]

The problem is this: under Mick McCarthy the Irish played with confidence, under Kerr they play with fear.

Typical unimformed tosh from the British sport press, they watch a couple of Ireland matches and suddenly they are experts. I wonder did the author see us play Macedonia (2x), Croatia, Yugoslavia, Turkey, Belgium... I could go on.

We've always been **** away from home.

[elroy]

All will be revealed in the three home matches. Israel will play 10 men behind the ball and will be very hard to break down. Ireland seem to play better on the counter attack. When we have to chase goals we seem to be at our worse.


I would disagree if we were better at counterattacking, we wouldve scored a second on sat. And perhaps in paris and basle too

[NeilMcD]

I think there is a lot of over-reaction to the performance on saturday. Some of it understandable. It was really frustrating as we all felt having watched the game that Ireland missed a great opportunity to really take command of the group. As it is, we are still in serious contention with the 3 other teams in the group . We do have a slight advantage in that we have home games to come up but that does not seem to be much of an advantage in this group. So far Kerr has been steady in his progress without setting the world alight. The only competitive game that I am happy with so far is the away game in France were we played really well. Everthing else has been either solid enough or dissappointing games (Russia at home, Switzerland away) . One of the most alarming things so far has been the set pieces. I know we dont have many big players in forward positions so as a result I think we should be putting both Cunningham and O Brien up for free kicks and corners with Kilbane and Morrison. If that means bringing back Finnan and Carr and Roy Keane to cover at the back so be it, but we really do need to be a threat from Free Kicks and corners.


However saying all that we are in charge of the group and I fully expect us to beat Israel and home and Faroes away which will leave us on 15 points with 3 games to play. Its going to come down to the big days at Landsdowne Road and see how our players react to a really big game at home. The optimist in me sees us going through as group winners by beating the swiss at home and drawing with the french. The pessimist sees us going through in second place and going to the play offs. I dont think I could take another knock out on the play offs.

IF we finish third in the group I think that Kerr would resign as simple as that but if we go out in the play offs then it would not be as clear cut.

Anyway I think we can do it and I think kerr can be the man to bring us to Germany, however I wish he was just a little bit more adventurous and we will see that at home. If we are negative at home there really are no excuses.

[eirebhoy]

The other thing is I dont see our goal difference helping us should it come down to that. We've had our two easy games (Cyprus and Faroes at LR) and havent racked up the goals (didnt the Swiss put 5 past the Faroes?).
Its very unlikely that the goals scored against Cyprus and Faroes will matter come the end of the group.

[NeilMcD]

DOes anybody have the definitive rule on what happens when teams are tied on points in a group. I tried finding it on the Fifa website but I did not get anywhere. It would be good to know as I think our group is going to be tight.

[OwlsFan]

Typical unimformed tosh from the British sport press, they watch a couple of Ireland matches and suddenly they are experts. I wonder did the author see us play Macedonia (2x), Croatia, Yugoslavia, Turkey, Belgium... I could go on. We've always been **** away from home.

Please do go on (we drew away to Turkey and Macedonia in two of those games). Portugal, Holland, Estonia etc away.

No, we're not always **** away from home but we don't win against top oppostion.

As for the guy who said we were adventurous against the French - playing two full back on the right of midfield was a negative tactic. Like against the Israelis, if we'd shown a bit more adventure, who knows, but then I wasn't particularly impressed by Andy R last night. He seems to be going backwards at the moment.

[pete]

Typical media sh!te. I'm not going to defend Kerr or not but whp is Paul Doyle and he was probably the one calling for Kerrs appointment anyway.

:rolleyes:


Instead, a listless Ireland drew with a ragged Russian side in Dublin

I remember Russia as having real strong defense that day.

If journo has only just discovered Kerr is a cautious manager then he not watched many games up to now.

Ireland played cautious game in France but sought goals when had the chance. They played very poorly in Israel but time to get over it.

[eirebhoy]

DOes anybody have the definitive rule on what happens when teams are tied on points in a group. I tried finding it on the Fifa website but I did not get anywhere. It would be good to know as I think our group is going to be tight.
Its just basically head to head between the teams drawn on points. If 2 teams are drawn it goes down to results between those teams (just like in a two legged cup match, away goals count). If the two matches were the same result (2-1 + 2-1, 1-1 + 1-1, etc.) then it goes down to goal difference against every team in the group. If 3 teams are drawn against each other its only their results against each other that count. If you can't split them then its goal difference between everyone in the group.

[DubJohn]

We were definitely a little overly cautious on Saturday. They didn't look encouraged to put the match away in the first half, never mind the second.

However, it's not Kerrs fault that the set pieces went straight to the keeper and our schoolboy of a top scorer had the worst first touch on the park that night.

[Closed Account 2]

This (http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com/releases/en/fwc_regulations_2006_090604_en.pdf) turgid document sets it out, near the top of page 6:-

Its for any tied position be it 1st place or last place.

"...the ranking system in each group is determined as follows:-

(a) greater number of points obtained in all the group matches
If two or more teams are equal on points, then
(b) greater number of points obtained in group matches between the teams concerned
(c) goal difference resulting from the group matches between the teams concerned
(d) greater no. of goals scored in matches between teams concerned
(e) goal difference in all group matches
(f) greater no. of goals scored in all group matches
(g) playoff on a neutral ground"

In other words if the situation arises where say the Swiss top the group, and we share 2nd place with say the French (and just the French) it will be as follows:-

- whoever wins at LR will take 2nd (as on criterion b, the winner will have 4 pts and the loser 1pt)
- if the match at LR is a draw then goal diff and goals scored will be the same for matches between them and us (so criteria c and d will be equal for us and them)
- so then it will go down to total goal difference for all matches (criterion e)
- and if that is equal (which is unlikely) then it will go to total goals scored in all matches (criterion f).


Incidently as an aside the top 2 2nd placers get automatic qualification and the other 6 go into playoffs to get the final 3 UEFA teams.

It says here (http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com/releases/uefa_preliminary_format_en.pdf) that to determine the 2 best 2nd placed teams, results against 1st, 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th teams are taken into account. So for us that will be all are results (whereas groups 1-3 will ignore the results of the bottom (7th) team).

At the moment I'd say the two best 2nd placers look like they be from group 6 (England/Poland/Austria) or group 8 (Sweden/Croatia/Bulgaria)

[donalfitz]

When we have to chase goals we seem to be at our worse.
We play with desperation. With that you make more mistakes than you normally do and end up losing. It a sad sight :(

[Slash/ED]

He seems to be going backwards at the moment.

You're basing that on one game, when he's been outstanding for Spurs and Ireland in every other one this season? :confused: If so, it'd be laughable if it wasn't so baffling how quickly people can write players off.

[donalfitz]

I think there is a lot of over-reaction to the performance on saturday. Some of it understandable. It was really frustrating as we all felt having watched the game that Ireland missed a great opportunity to really take command of the group. As it is, we are still in serious contention with the 3 other teams in the group . We do have a slight advantage in that we have home games to come up but that does not seem to be much of an advantage in this group. So far Kerr has been steady in his progress without setting the world alight. .


Anyway I think we can do it and I think kerr can be the man to bring us to Germany, however I wish he was just a little bit more adventurous and we will see that at home. If we are negative at home there really are no excuses.

I’m a fan of Kerr and impress in how he got our under age teams to perform well over the years (deserve to get the crack of the senior manager Job), but IF we get to Germany and play the way we are playing at the moment. We'll lose our opening matches. I think it's time set some fires (no blow torch) under their arses to get them going to set the world and group alight. They need motivation!!

[donalfitz]

We were definitely a little overly cautious on Saturday. They didn't look encouraged to put the match away in the first half, never mind the second.

However, it's not Kerrs fault that the set pieces went straight to the keeper and our schoolboy of a top scorer had the worst first touch on the park that night.
I agree.

[dancinpants]

FFS, when we beat the Swiss, the Israelis at LR, and beat the Faroes and Cyprus away, and nick a draw against France at LR (playing sh!te in each game) - finishing top of the group, all these gobsh!tes lookin for his head on a platter now will be lookin' to ride him!!! :rolleyes: :mad:

[eirebhoy]

Kavanagh is on Newstalk and he is the 5th player I'm after hearing backing up what Kerr said.

"it certainly wasn't a conscious effort on the lads to sit back and defend deep"

Next time I hope the fans and media don't just jump on Kerr's back and say it was his tactics. Whatever Kerr could have done different on Saturday it was not his decision to create few chances and play safe.

[Slash/ED]

Picking a right back in an attacking position and then when it came to subbing off Clinton bringing on Matt Holland sent out it's own message. Whatever the players and Kerr said, his selections told their own story.

[eirebhoy]

Picking a right back in an attacking position and then when it came to subbing off Clinton bringing on Matt Holland sent out it's own message. Whatever the players and Kerr said, his selections told their own story.
The fans were 50/50 on whether Reid or Finnan should play. We can rely on Finnan, we know what we're going to get but sometimes Reid can be a liability as proven in Switzerland and against China. Holland came on and Duff was pushed up a bit more forward with Kilbane on the left. While we may not agree with that its still just as much attacking.

[dr_peepee]

There has to be some accountabillity on the management after Saturdays performance. It wasn't an isolated performance against a team that are a middle tier international team at best. This is on the back of similar results against other teams of similar stature under Kerrs reign.

If it wasn't Kerrs intention to play the way they did then why wait so long to make the substitution?? If he wasn't happy with the way things where progressing it was up to him as manager to act on it. He didn't.

And too many people are citing Brian Kerrs mantra of winning home games and drawing the away game. Rubbish. With that approach you'll be lucky to finnish runner up in any group. It generally onlyapplies to the top 2 or three teams in a group, yet we appear to have lowered that bar to the top four teams. We are hardly in a 'Group of Death' here. The only team I would've accepted a draw away from home before the game is France.

And besides, I can cope with a draw or even a loss against any team so long as the performance justifies it. we were well capable of beating the Isrealies. I think scoring so early was a bit of a poisoned chalice as maybe if we'd scored after say 30 minuted the momentum may have sent us on. But with the posession we had we should have threatened more. It was like that episode of the Simpsons were they're watching the Soccer match...

Kerr has brought some positive aspects to the set up, there can be no argument there. And anyone calling for his head is a little bit extreme. But it's time we start climbing the learning curve.

But Kerr is not beyond criticism by any stretch.

[Snoop Drog]

Kerr's fate will be decided ultimately by wheter or not we qualify. If we go through he will be hailed as a tactical genius. If not, he will be called an ass. It's a thin line he walks...

Playing for draws away is great as long as you win at home. Time will tell if that happens. I am a fan of Kerr's but he doesn't seem to be able to tinker with the team during the game. Once he saw that the Isreali's had nothing to throw at us, there should have been a Plan B to attack more.

If we qualify, it will all be forgotten. But, as we learned the hard way, not losing games doesn't guarantee qualification...

[eirebhoy]

There has to be some accountabillity on the management after Saturdays performance. It wasn't an isolated performance against a team that are a middle tier international team at best. This is on the back of similar results against other teams of similar stature under Kerrs reign.

If it wasn't Kerrs intention to play the way they did then why wait so long to make the substitution?? If he wasn't happy with the way things where progressing it was up to him as manager to act on it. He didn't.
I'm not saying Kerr should not get critisism for that. Everyone was putting the blame on Kerr the way we sat back. 5 players have now came out and said it wasn't the plan and they should have attacked more. Thats all I'm saying. The biggest critisism been thrown at Kerr after the match was his tactics. It wasn't his tactics for everyone to sit back and I wanted to clear that up. I've said the P(sychology) word so many times since Saturday but too many people under estimate the powers of the mind. A players instinct is to defend a lead (that was the main priority) and every team does it, nothing a coach can do about it.

BTW, I certainly didn't expect Israel to sit back so much after seeing them against Switzerland. They gave us too much respect and maybe that played a part in distrupting Kerr's game plan. Of course he deserves critisism but not all of it like the papers and fan have been giving him.

We have never performed well when we go in the lead against a half decent team away from home in my memory so we can't expect that to change any time soon.

[Slash/ED]

The fans were 50/50 on whether Reid or Finnan should play. We can rely on Finnan, we know what we're going to get but sometimes Reid can be a liability as proven in Switzerland and against China. Holland came on and Duff was pushed up a bit more forward with Kilbane on the left. While we may not agree with that its still just as much attacking.

Come off it, Finnan on the right was a defencive option and has we been at home he wouldn't have done it. Holland on for Morrison was a defencive option, as is playing Duff up front and had we been at home his sibstitutions would have been different. Actions speak louder than words, I don't care what Kerr or anyone said, he played defencive and that was his intention from the off. It's this almost frightened attitude to away games that is the difference between our home and away record as much as anything else.

[macdermesser]

Some "supporters" we are when we start calling for the managers head after a couple of results don't go our way. Give the man a chance, and reserve judgement until after the campaign. If we do manage to finish first in the group ahead of France, it would be the best qualifying performance we have ever had.

I think the conservatism last Saturday was down more to Roy Keane than Kerr. It was Keane playing the ball backwards, directing operations, urging people to hold onto the ball and not give it away. I think in the back of people's heads was the Holland game when we threw away the 2-0 lead, and the criticism that followed that game from Keane. Its obvious that players like Robbie and Duffer look up to Keane and I think that influenced them too. If we had nicked a second goal, I think people would have been raving about the possession football we played.

[Stuttgart88]

I had no problem with picking Finnan over Reid. I've seen Finnan play RHM several times and he can be quite good there. He's an excellent crosser of a ball usually (McAteer vs Holland, Duff's missed sitter vs Croatia...). I accept that sitting back wasn't the game plan, but failing to substitute tired and underperformning players was the big mistake from the bench. Even still, the players out there should have been able to deal with the situation better. A big shame, especially looking at where we'd be now in the table but it's over & hopefully we'll learn.

I said it in the build up to the game. This was of bigger significance than just the 3 points. It could have marked a coming of age of sorts, instead that moment has been put back by quite a bit & unnecessary seeds of doubt will remain.

[Kingdom]

Some "supporters" we are when we start calling for the managers head after a couple of results don't go our way. Give the man a chance, and reserve judgement until after the campaign. If we do manage to finish first in the group ahead of France, it would be the best qualifying performance we have ever had.

I think the conservatism last Saturday was down more to Roy Keane than Kerr. It was Keane playing the ball backwards, directing operations, urging people to hold onto the ball and not give it away. I think in the back of people's heads was the Holland game when we threw away the 2-0 lead, and the criticism that followed that game from Keane. Its obvious that players like Robbie and Duffer look up to Keane and I think that influenced them too. If we had nicked a second goal, I think people would have been raving about the possession football we played.

Good post. Especially the last sentence. We did play some great football but unfortunately, for whatever reason, we didn't do enough of it in or around the penalty box. There were lots of times during the game when the Israelites couldn't get near the ball.
I think too many of our fans have been watching la liga. we have one or two flair players , mainly Duff and Reid. One is world class the other has not proven himself over 'A' season never mind a couple of seasons. Some people on this site were going on about how Reid should have been picked over Finnan.
Andy Reid's performance against China showed exactly why he wasn't picked. He was terrible.
At half time someone should have picked him up by the scruff handed him a dictionary scrolled to the "s" section and pointed out the word "simple". We didn't have a right sided midfielder against China and until he becomes more disciplined, which playing for an ambitious Premiership club should do to him, then he won't be starting for us competitively against the bigger teams.

Steve Finnan is more than capable of playing on the right side of midfield and is having a great season for Liverpool. apart from Jamie Carragher he has been Liverpool's best player. If Andy Reid had played against Israel I've no doubt that Benayoun would have exploited Steven Carr even more so.

As for people slagging off Kerr, let that be done at the end of the campaign. The result against Israel was disappointing but after last nights results we are in a super position. We would have been in a better position had the Swiss not got a late winner.

[Corky]

we have one or two flair players , mainly Duff and Reid. One is world class the other has not proven himself over 'A' season never mind a couple of seasons. Some people on this site were going on about how Reid should have been picked over Finnan.
Andy Reid's performance against China showed exactly why he wasn't picked. He was terrible.
At half time someone should have picked him up by the scruff handed him a dictionary scrolled to the "s" section and pointed out the word "simple". We didn't have a right sided midfielder against China and until he becomes more disciplined, which playing for an ambitious Premiership club should do to him, then he won't be starting for us competitively against the bigger teams.

Steve Finnan is more than capable of playing on the right side of midfield and is having a great season for Liverpool. apart from Jamie Carragher he has been Liverpool's best player. If Andy Reid had played against Israel I've no doubt that Benayoun would have exploited Steven Carr even more so.


Spot on, I dont feel Andy Reid has done anywhere near enough in an Ireland or Spurs jersey to merit a start in a WC Qualifier. Played well in the Championship but thats beside the point. Refuses to play a simple ball, but prefers to lob one into space even when its not on. He was nowhere in Switzerland and his passing and crossing were poor against China. Dont get me wrong, he has potential but I think he needs premiership experience and a gym membership before he can be considered over Steve Finnan. Finnan is reliable, hasnt let Ireland down at Right back or Right midfield and is playing well and regularly for a top premiership side. No contest at the moment.

[stojkovic]

I believe that a right side of Sulky Carr and Lazy Reid would be a disaster.

Finnan and Reid - maybe.

Carr is the kind of fcuker who if he's dropped will retire from international football.

I was his biggest fan 4 years ago but now he is a dissappointment.

[thejollyrodger]

same here, i dont rate Carr at all now. People were saying give him a chance etc. It has been on the rot for years now and its time to call a spade a spade. Carr is a very average right back at best. He doesnt get forward like he used to, he doesnt cross in dangerous crosses. He gets himself into a lot of trouble with the ref for stupid things. He is terrible at defending high balls into the peno area and lacks communication skills with the keeper. Finnan over Carr any day.


Reid has talent, dont get me wrong. but there is so much of his game that needs a lot of work. He was absent in Basel, never seen him all night. He keeps playing the same card all night, the ball into space. Its good to see the first few times but after a while its robbie styled fustration. I cant see Reid improving much in 4 weeks TBH.

I think our best team was the one that played in Israel. Apart from Carr. It would be great if Dunne could play in the right back position IMO.

Kerr is doing a great job, that English rag is just having a go because a Irishman is in charge. I hope we top this group and Kerr shows everyone wrong

[eirebhoy]

Whatever about Carr's recent defensive woes for his country, he has not lost any of his attacking threat and he has a fabulous cross. When he's at his best he is more of an attacking threat at right back than Finnan is on the right side of midfield.

[Lionel Ritchie]

FFS, when we beat the Swiss, the Israelis at LR, and beat the Faroes and Cyprus away, and nick a draw against France at LR (playing sh!te in each game) - finishing top of the group, all these gobsh!tes lookin for his head on a platter now will be lookin' to ride him!!! :rolleyes: :mad:

I hope you're right dancinpants. But our error margin is gone.
I don't think the article makes a mountain out of a molehill as someone else claimed -and I DO think we've dropped 6 points that were there for the taking in this group. It's not the stuff of fantasy that Ireland could have 15 points now with France and Israel on what? 9 each and switzerland on 8. There's our group dead in the water before summer for us.

Kerr is apparently a big fan of meticulous preparation, homework and research -yet he failed to prepare a team for the statistically demonstrable fact that Israel -be they winning, drawing or losing - are usually strong finishers and good for a goal in the last ten minutes. Any bookie could've told him that.

But forget the Israel match, we don't create enough chances, we shun shooting opportunities in favour of playing it into the corners looking to cross it at head height to our five and a half foot splash forwards and we have absolutley gone to s h it at set pieces. ...oh and we can't seem to score more than one goal per competetive game unless we're playing a pub team like Faroes.

[OwlsFan]

You're basing that on one game, when he's been outstanding for Spurs and Ireland in every other one this season? :confused: If so, it'd be laughable if it wasn't so baffling how quickly people can write players off.

Who's written him off? I'm a great fan of Reid's and was all for him playing instead of having two right fulls on the pitch. He hasn't been outstanding for Spurs and I think he does need to get a few pounds off.

I've been raving about Reid for a number of years having seen him in the Championship in previous years against Wednesday etc but I'm just not sure whether he's hit a wall now. He needs to get in better shape and kick on and with a bit of luck become the next Ray Houghton. If you visit some Spurs sites you'll see jibles like "who ate all the pies" etc. I've no doubt ANdy has the ability - I just hope he uses it.

[thejollyrodger]

The fact that Keane (of all people) turned up for one of the all time meaningless friendlies, China, (although we do need asian competition) shows that he is fully behind Kerr and obviously belives what kerr is doing is right.

Roy is no idiot. He is still a truely competitive player and knows if a manager is a bluffer or not. We were always muck away from home, the fact we took points off everyone is a major plus. We looked like winning 2 of the matches.

To be honest, I think the most important thing is that Roy and Kerr are on the same wavelength. Roy still raises everyones game (even Morrison admitted as much). Some of the players are going to be whinging but thats no major loss.

Israel are missing players now, if their goal is to get a draw against us at home you cant expect a lot from them in lansdowne. Were a lot mentally stronger now, Kerr has hit the ground running and hasnt made one mistake yet IMO. Reid shouldnt have been played.

Kerr can prepare as best as possible, he can pick our best team (which he did each time), have the best facilities etc, but he cant (yet) fix the Irish britle mentality for away matches. The players let themselves down.

[donalfitz]

kerr should be able to motivate them and "make" them do what he wants if he were a good leader. it appears to be there is conflict of interests here somewhere.
Has Kerr lost his motivation skills? Have the players lost their respect for Kerr?
If so we're in deep s**t. :eek:

[Slash/ED]

Who's written him off? I'm a great fan of Reid's and was all for him playing instead of having two right fulls on the pitch. He hasn't been outstanding for Spurs and I think he does need to get a few pounds off.

I've been raving about Reid for a number of years having seen him in the Championship in previous years against Wednesday etc but I'm just not sure whether he's hit a wall now. He needs to get in better shape and kick on and with a bit of luck become the next Ray Houghton. If you visit some Spurs sites you'll see jibles like "who ate all the pies" etc. I've no doubt ANdy has the ability - I just hope he uses it.

Stop harping on about his weight ffs. Andy Reid is not over weight and is one of the fittest players at Spurs, according to Martin Jol and the Spurs medical staff who have done tests on this. He may look overweight but look at his game, he's one of the quickest players we have and never stops running. Ronaldo is overweight, Andy Reid is not.

[Stuttgart88]

Has Kerr lost his motivation skills? Have the players lost their respect for Kerr?
If so we're in deep s**t. :eek:

I'd love to know exactly what was said in the dressing room after the game and by whom. If it was a players revolt we probably won't know for years: the pro-Kerr camp like Humphries will keep mum about it, the likes of Paul Doyle wouldn't say anything, just drop hints here and there, to protect their sources. Or maybe Kerr had a go at the players. Or maybe it just was a mutual "what the **** happened"?

Living over here I've heard nothing but Eirebhoy says over half the team have gone on record saying the game plan wasn't the problem.

[tetsujin1979]

I'd love to know exactly what was said in the dressing room after the game and by whom. If it was a players revolt we probably won't know for years: the pro-Kerr camp like Humphries will keep mum about it, the likes of Paul Doyle wouldn't say anything, just drop hints here and there, to protect their sources. Or maybe Kerr had a go at the players. Or maybe it just was a mutual "what the **** happened"?

Living over here I've heard nothing but Eirebhoy says over half the team have gone on record saying the game plan wasn't the problem.

I think if the game plan was the problem, we'd definately know about it. RMK couldn't stop talking about how impressed with the preperation for games was improved, surely he'd speak up now if it wasn't for this game?

[Stuttgart88]

Lads, as I've said before, can we get behind the Ireland team for the next six months. There will be a long summer of nothing ahead when we can have recriminations.
For now, I'm supporting my country, the players and the manager. Don't know about ye?


Don't get me wrong, I am too. You wouldn't believe how much.

The post wasn't intended to be scurrilous. I'd just love to have been a fly on the wall in the dressing room. I think all of us would.

As you say, it's all happened now. I'm hoping everyone will respond positively and finish the job.

[donalfitz]

I'd love to know exactly what was said in the dressing room after the game and by whom. If it was a players revolt we probably won't know for years: the pro-Kerr camp like Humphries will keep mum about it, the likes of Paul Doyle wouldn't say anything, just drop hints here and there, to protect their sources. Or maybe Kerr had a go at the players. Or maybe it just was a mutual "what the **** happened"?

Living over here I've heard nothing but Eirebhoy says over half the team have gone on record saying the game plan wasn't the problem.
I'm curious about the isreal match about what happen in the dressing room. Someone said there was no interviews after the match. Was kerr furious?
He was egging on the players during the match and getting annoyed at times.

[tetsujin1979]

McCarthy could plausibly claim to have an excuse for such caution - he was a member of the Irish squad that was pipped by England to qualification for Euro 92 after carefree attacking saw them squander a 3-1 lead in Poland to draw 3-3.


Just remembered this, McCarthy didn't play in the 3-3 game, in the analysis after the match, Dunphy pointed out that for the second Polish goal, O'Leary (I think) tried to play the ball out of defence, rather than hoofing it into the stands to give the defence a chance to regroup. This sticks in my mind because he said it was what McCarthy would have done, and is probably the only time he's ever come close to complimenting Mick.

[Stuttgart88]

Just remembered this, McCarthy didn't play in the 3-3 game, in the analysis after the match, Dunphy pointed out that for the second Polish goal, O'Leary (I think) tried to play the ball out of defence, rather than hoofing it into the stands to give the defence a chance to regroup. This sticks in my mind because he said it was what McCarthy would have done, and is probably the only time he's ever come close to complimenting Mick.

That's right. In fact Dunphy even went as far as admitting that despite his lack of ability compared to O'Leary & Moran(?) the Irish defence was far better with McCarthy in it than without him.