Wales V Republic of Ireland - Cardiff - 6th September 2018 - UEFA Nations League

[Kingdom]

We always hold onto a manager one campaign too long. It would be nice to buck that trend for once.

In my opinion, this is only half correct. We're too slow to do most things connected with the Senior Men's team. We hang on to managers and players much too long generally.

We're quite elitest in this country, purely because we don't have a large-scale football following community here. We're hung up on a player's club standard rather than the players ability, and this is demonstrated by the clamour to include guys in the senior squad once their passport is scanned as they board a flight in cork or Dublin airports.

We seem reluctant to identify players who could fulfil a purpose for a campaign, or the cycle between campaigns. ONeill intimated in his NT interview, that the summer camp is when the main tactics are passed around, and that if you're not there for those, it makes it difficult to work things out during a campaign. To me, that's a load of boll*cks.

I'm sick of him, I'm sick of his tactics, and I'm sick of the circus around him everytime he talks. Quite honestly I've never wanted to jump an Ireland manager before, but I want to flatten him. He's arrogant, he's smug, and he's getting his ar*e handed to him on a plate.

[NeverFeltBetter]

I'm sick of the circus around him everytime he talks.

I think that's just normal for international managers now. No matter who has the job the media will be looking to sensationalise every utterance to get clicks.

[Murph 1]

Totally agree with the above, I could get over O'Neill being smug and arrogant and Keane being a media circus loudmouth if they actually did the job they are supposed to do. For quite some time management have stuck to the line that we don't have the players, even some sections of the media are now singing to the same tune. Last night we had a back four of Premier league players combined with players who are confirmed Championship standard. The job of management was to pick a team suited to the occasion and have them organised to play in such a way as would make us very hard to beat, That combined with our renowned team spirit would have given us a reasonable chance of being competitive.

Last night we payed as if the 11 on the field of play had never before trained or prepared for a game together. Wales at home with a new manager were always going to dominate possession so we needed a plan to counteract this- we had none!!, Surely 2 defensive midfielders aka Meyler and Williams would have offerd real protection to a Premier League back 4. Robinson up front with Hendrick in behind would surely have played to these players strengths.

O Neill/Keane have lost the dressing room. The squabble with Arter is testament to this, the fear which the team now plays with is testament to this, talk of being brave on the ball is a load of bull, how can players be brave when there is no team spirit and no game plan or clear method of playing.

Player recruitement is also a big issue with this management . Their is a very lethargic attitude to same, O Neill often states that there are new players on the horizon willing to play for us yet nothing happens. Wales , Northern Ireland, even Scotland are proactive in encouraging/persuading players to declare for them, We are reactive at best. Times have changed , there are a host of dual-allegiance players out there who need to be actively pursued. Everyone else is at it.

O'Neill/Keane are overpaid and really view the job as apart-time gig, The FAI must respond to this disastrous situation by doing the only logical thing at this stage and terminate their contracts . Mick McCarthy has always had a passion for Irish football and given his vast experience and knowledge would be the perfect replacement.

[DeLorean]

Mick McCarthy has always had a passion for Irish football and given his vast experience and knowledge would be the perfect replacement.

I also think this would be the way to go, at this stage.

[jbyrne]

I also think this would be the way to go, at this stage.

would love to have mick back in charge but the way it ended for him the last time was shameful. as soon as we went 2-1 down at home to the swiss the atmosphere was poisonous in the stadium with keono chants and banners supporting roy hanging from the west stand. mick did a superb job of re-building the team post jack charlton when we at the same low point we are at now. as the saying goes.... you dont know what you have till its gone...

[marinobohs]

Truly shocking performance against a slightly better than average Wales team. tactically didn't know what we were doing and second to every ball. 2 shots on target in 90 minutes against a very open Wales team shows the complete lack of cutting edge we possessed. The slow response of our defence and midfield to EVERY tackle was embarrassing. I fully accept we have very limited resources player wise but we are better than the rubbish served up last night, we need a change of management and quickly.

management cant conjure up top class players but it can (and should) make the best of what is available, is anyone really suggesting that is currently the case ?

[jbyrne]

Truly shocking performance against a slightly better than average Wales team.

that wales team will be better then the version that reached the euro semis.
we were bad but i thought wales were very very good

[p2011]

An honest question: is Mick any good at tactics? Does he notice things and change things up during a game? Our game management is horrible at the moment and has been for 1-2 years now. Would Mick be an improvement?

We were in need of a holding midfield shield last night and I think a manager worth his salt would notice this and change things up after 5, 10, 20 minutes. Plus we've been through this before with the 2nd half v Denmark at home.

[Diggs246]

Im not sure how realistic it is that the FAI will or can pay out the compensation for Mon/Roy. I would say they will be in charge until Euro 2020. Evem if Denmark and Wales beat us in the next round of nations league games

[RiffRaff]

I thought O'Neill should have gone after the Denmark game when the team's confidence and self belief evaporated over the 90 minutes. There is no coming back from that. A lot of talk about the players needing to be braver, but what about the management? We keep hearing about the lack of decent players available so why is O'Neill not trying to develop more, thats his job. We had only Walters in the squad as a recognised centre forward, he cant play a full 90 minutes anymore. Why was someone else brought into the squad as an option. There seems to be some issue with Sheridan, but aside from that McMillan, Sammon, Hoban would at least have been an option from the bench and while Wales threw teenagers into the game, we could have used Obafemi who has played in the top flight.

[pineapple stu]

Im not sure how realistic it is that the FAI will or can pay out the compensation for Mon/Roy. I would say they will be in charge until Euro 2020. Evem if Denmark and Wales beat us in the next round of nations league games
Probably true. Makes the decision to give them a new contract on the eve of the Denmark home game that bit more confusing.

There's some weak teams going to get promoted from League D - Georgia and Macedonia topping their groups after the first couple of games yesterday. These are the teams we look like joining in League C next year - so that's our level. Worrying stuff.

[marinobohs]

that wales team will be better then the version that reached the euro semis.
we were bad but i thought wales were very very good

They actually gave us far too many chances to be 'good' (the fact we were unable to take advantage doesn't make them a good side). Robinson missed a couple of decent chances and our goal was bad schoolboy defending by Wales. Passes went astray far too often as well. Not saying they were a bad side, and they were much better than us, but would not describe them as a top side by any stretch.

[marinobohs]

Im not sure how realistic it is that the FAI will or can pay out the compensation for Mon/Roy. I would say they will be in charge until Euro 2020. Evem if Denmark and Wales beat us in the next round of nations league games

Very likely.Damage was done rushing them into a new contract (FAI scared by alleged interest of Prem team, Leicester I think). suspect we are stuck with them for this campaign or until fan pressure forces a change.

[Fixer82]

I’d have no problem having Mick back as I always liked him. And he instals passion and spirit in a group. The same thing O’Neill is supposed to be famous for.

But let’s not forget that when we lost to Spain in 2002 everyone was giving out that Mick didn’t know they were down to 10 men. Everyone said his tactics against Russia and Switzerland were negative....

Give him the job, sure. But don’t turn on him the minute things looks the same as they do now.

We’ve the worst group of players we’ve had for years. And there’s little a manager can do about that

[Murph 1]

Given our current situation of total negativity and ineptitude- Mick seems the only realistic option, He is available, has done a very good job before, and knows all there is to know about Irish Football and the playing pool available. He kept a very average Ipswich side very competitive on a shoestring budget,

Most importantly of all he has a real passion for the International side and would give the job 100% .

Hope the FAI see sense in the near future and bring an end to the O Neill/Keane charade.

[IsMiseSean]

I'd have no problem with Mick taking over again, but would it be a continuation of the same?
Mick wasn't exactly known for his free flowing football at Ipswich.

Perhaps we need an 'outsider'. Someone with no links to the team/nation. A German, Dutch or Scandinavian coach.

Anyone see Tommy Martin ask Mick 'when can he start' right after the highlights on TV3 last night?
Mick just replied 'ah that's unfair'. :D

[Fixer82]

I'd have no problem with Mick taking over again, but would it be a continuation of the same?
Mick wasn't exactly known for his free flowing football at Ipswich.

Perhaps we need an 'outsider'. Someone with no links to the team/nation. A German, Dutch or Scandinavian coach.

Anyone see Tommy Martin ask Mick 'when can he start' right after the highlights on TV3 last night?
Mick just replied 'ah that's unfair'. :D

Yep fair play to Mick. He’s conducted himself pretty well.

We got an outsider before and it didnt quite pan out.

And with O’Neill, he’s done so much that we moaned about Trap not doing: attending LOI games, attending underage games, changing starting line-up when it wasn’t working.

Would an outsider be as involved as O’Neill? His starting line-up confused me the other night and we probably do need a change but...I’m not optimistic about the team whoever takes over.

[p2011]

10-man Spain in 2002 - that's what I was thinking of. We need someone who sees that, someone who thinks "if I take off 2 defensive midfielders, Eriksen is going to murder us", someone who sees where all the danger came from last night. That's what I was wondering - anyone watched Ipswich in recent years and seen what Mick is like nowadays?

True that MON has been an improvement on Trap in terms of being flexible and making changes, but his changes often feel like mad curveballs. And MON has taken to the Trap habit of talking down the players in public. Not good.

[Chiswick1983]

I would just call up LOI players, i hate relying on English born players who are not good enough to play for England then don the irish shirt, it drives me insane.

[IsMiseSean]

Yep fair play to Mick. He’s conducted himself pretty well.

We got an outsider before and it didnt quite pan out.

And with O’Neill, he’s done so much that we moaned about Trap not doing: attending LOI games, attending underage games, changing starting line-up when it wasn’t working.

Would an outsider be as involved as O’Neill? His starting line-up confused me the other night and we probably do need a change but...I’m not optimistic about the team whoever takes over.

In fairness to Trap - he did get us to a tournament, although it was worse than watching paint dry at times.
Qualification is always our aim, anything else is a bonus.

I wouldn't write off an 'outsider' because of Trap's negative approach.

Surely the Rude Doctor would know some Dutch managers that would suit us.

[ger121]

We need a new Manager, one who is relatively young and inexpensive, is not afraid to take a gamble on players, then gets the most out of those players. Has a positive winning attitude which he instills in his teams and that they in turn buy into. Oh and knows how to play a passing game with those players at his disposal. If only someone like that existed.

[zero]

We need a new Manager, one who is relatively young and inexpensive, is not afraid to take a gamble on players, then gets the most out of those players. Has a positive winning attitude which he instills in his teams and that they in turn buy into. Oh and knows how to play a passing game with those players at his disposal. If only someone like that existed.

steve staunton?

[Real ale Madrid]

We need a new Manager, one who is relatively young and inexpensive, is not afraid to take a gamble on players, then gets the most out of those players. Has a positive winning attitude which he instills in his teams and that they in turn buy into. Oh and knows how to play a passing game with those players at his disposal. If only someone like that existed.

Rovers will want too much compo for Bradser.

[Diggs246]

I have to say, we would have lost yesterday anyway, but if we look at the last year or so without James McCarthy we haven't done the business. He is key to our midfield structure …
Please please get fit

[Diggs246]

Also I think its clear Kevin Long is a better option than Clark

[Olé Olé]

Such a pity Kwame Ampadu married a Welsh woman.

[ger121]

Rovers will want too much compo for Bradser.

He’ll treat every match as though it’s a Cup Final.

[TrapAPony]

Such a pity Kwame Ampadu married a Welsh woman.

If Ethan Ampadu was Irish, MON wouldn't have him in the squad anyway as he would be deemed too young.

[zero]

If Ethan Ampadu was Irish, MON wouldn't have him in the squad anyway as he would be deemed too young.

MON wouldn't dare put bristol city squad player calum o'dowda's place at risk.

not a single player performed well last night. not even coleman. i can't remember the cyrpus game too well, but we were a rabble last night, reminded me of the austria away game under trap.

[Stuttgart88]

I said in my preview that even with the withdrawals we have good players, not great, but good and good enough to at least stand up and be counted. Anyway, this morning I listened to a full hour of analysis on OTB with Cunningham, Breen and Andrews and John Hartson from the Welsh angle.

The 3 Irish guys' views were largely the same and can be summarised as:
- The selection was poor. Our 2 in midfield were just swamped by a high quality 3 in midfield for Wales.
- We failed to adapt to this, just as we failed to adapt to Denmark's dominance in Dublin (then we actually made it worse)
- The players played poorly. In the past pulling on the green shirt brought better performances from players than many were used to delivering at club level. These days the players play WORSE than at their clubs. This is a management failure.
-Hendrick and Hourihane were both picked as a vanilla 2 man midfield, expected to sit deep, yet neither plays deep at club level; each is used to arriving late in the attacking third of the pitch
- Management (despite MON, Keane, Guppy & Walford all being prominent) admit to not working on systems, shape etc.
- Last night, yet again, there was no obvious pattern, shape or system. This is a "systemic failure" of management.
- Other sides work on their shape and systems so why can't we? EVERY other side does it.
- Despite being critical of both individual performances and management's role, and tearing apart the impact of management, all 3 declined to call for a change (actually I didn't hear Breen's final remarks). Hartson said he is too close to MON to comment.
- Despite the absentees we had our strongest back 5 out.

So,
-I have to say I agree with all of this, except for the strongest back 5 bit. I think the May friendlies showed Kevin Long is deserving of a start over Clark, and actually Stevens is deserving of a start over Ward. So too was Williams based on his Paris performance. Lenihan looks a player too and a threat from set pieces
- Hartson said we played 451. I don't think so.
- Why no Meyler? No world beater but his absence left the space in front of our back 4 too open. allen had acres of space for the first goal
- No mention at all of Matt Doherty, far more influential at Wolves than Christie at Fulham
- No mention that Stevens and Horgan - our only credible out ball in the absence of Judge - looked like a great "unit" on the left versus USA, and did so again briefly last night
- They let management off too lightly. Faced with the charge sheet aimed at them, their position is totally untenable in my opinion.
- We played 352 in 3 games since Denmark. He went back to 4411 in the next competitive game. Weird to say the least.

There is just no way this set up can continue. NI and Iceland are great examples of organisation. The WC showed lots of "lesser" teams being hard to play against because of their shape and system off the ball. We didn't have one. That's just unforgivable especially when MON says he doesn't have time to create a system. 2nd place is crucial in the Nations League. That's a very tall order now.

I'd give the job to McCarthy tomorrow. Even Kerr again.

[jbyrne]

MON wouldn't dare put bristol city squad player calum o'dowda's place at risk.


who is one of our few players who actually looks comfortable on the ball and can do something positive with it....

[zero]

I said in my preview that even with the withdrawals we have good players, not great, but good and good enough to at least stand up and be counted. Anyway, this morning I listed to a full hour of analysis on OTB with Cunningham, Breen and Andrews and John Hartson from the Welsh angle.

The 3 Irish guys' views were largely the same and can be summarised as:
- The selection was poor. Our 2 in midfield were just swamped by a high quality 3 in midfield for Wales.
- We failed to adapt to this, just as we failed to adapt to Denmark's dominance in Dublin (then we actually made it worse)
- The players played poorly. In the past pulling on the green shirt brought better performances from players than many were used to delivering at club level. These days the players play WORSE than at their clubs. This is a management failure.
-Hendrick and Hourihane were both picked as a vanilla 2 man midfield, expected to sit deep, yet neither plays deep at club level; each is used to arriving late in the attacking third of the pitch
- Management (despite MON, Keane, Guppy & Walford all being prominent) admit to not working on systems, shape etc.
- Last night, yet again, there was no obvious pattern, shape or system. This is a "systemic failure" of management.
- Other sides work on their shape and systems so why can't we? EVERY other side does it.
- Despite being critical of both individual performances and management's role, and tearing apart the impact of management, all 3 declined to call for a change (actually I didn't hear Breen's final remarks). Hartson said he is too close to MON to comment.
- Despite the absentees we had our strongest back 5 out.

So,
-I have to say I agree with all of this, except for the strongest back 5 bit. I think the May friendlies showed Kevin Long is deserving of a start over Clark, and actually Stevens is deserving of a start over Ward. So too was Williams based on his Paris performance. Lenihan looks a player too and a threat from set pieces
- Hartson said we played 451. I don't think so.
- Why no Meyler? No world beater but his absence left the space in front of our back 4 too open. allen had acres of space for the first goal
- No mention at all of Matt Doherty, far more influential at Wolves than Christie at Fulham
- No mention that Stevens and Horgan - our only credible out ball in the absence of Judge - looked like a great "unit" on the left versus USA, and did so again briefly last night
- They let management off too lightly. Faced with the charge sheet aimed at them, their position is totally untenable in my opinion.
- We played 352 in 3 games since Denmark. He went back to 4411 in the next competitive game. Weird to say the least.

There is just no way this set up can continue. NI and Iceland are great examples of organisation. The WC showed lots of "lesser" teams being hard to play against because of their shape and system off the ball. We didn't have one. That's just unforgivable especially when MON says he doesn't have time to create a system. 2nd place is crucial in the Nations League. That's a very tall order now.

I'd give the job to McCarthy tomorrow. Even Kerr again.

agree with all of the above.

[Stuttgart88]

we were a rabble last night, reminded me of the austria away game under trap.
We only lost that 1-0, 75th minute goal. Not comparable.

[Diggs246]

agree with all of the above.

Great post. But dont agree on Kerr

[Fixer82]

Great post. But dont agree on Kerr

Same as that.
We were awful under Kerr. Except for in friendlies strangely enough

[shakermaker1982]

McCarthy is not the answer. Look at what was at his disposal (see below!). Kerr loves a 12 hour video session but I don’t think that will work with the Instagram generation.

The players tend to avoid scrutiny following a humiliating defeat. All 4 goals were down to mistakes from individual players - they also need to be held accountable. I’d love to be at the post game review with Clark. So that Gareth Bale chap who is world renowned for being brilliant with his left foot. Talk us through your thought process on that one Mr Clark.

I was looking through some old team sheets and it’s a depressing read.

Ireland vs Holland 2001

Given, G Kelly, Dunne, Staunton, Harte, McAteer (O'Brien 90), Holland, Roy Keane, Kilbane, Duff (Quinn 87), Robbie Keane (Finnan 59).

Ireland vs Italy 2009

Given; O’Shea, Dunne, St Ledger, Kilbane; Lawrence, Andrews, Whelan, McGeady; Keane, Doyle.

Wales vs Ireland 2018

D Randolph, S Coleman (c), S Duffy ,C Clark , S Ward, C Christie , J Hendrick , C Hourihane, C O'Dowda , J Walters, C Robinson

Something drastic needs to happen ASAP if we don’t want to fall further behind. Relying on English clubs to train promising youngsters is not the answer. The FAI nvested in regional centres which is a great idea but I really do fear for our future. Particularly with kids seeing the success of the Irish rugby teams and dominance of the Dubs at GAA.

[Stuttgart88]

Great post. But dont agree on Kerrthe Kerr remark was largely tongue in cheek though if I could wake up in the morning with a choice of Kerr over O'Neill it'd be Kerr.

[Stuttgart88]

McCarthy is not the answer. Look at what was at his disposal (see below!). Kerr loves a 12 hour video session but I don’t think that will work with the Instagram generation.

The players tend to avoid scrutiny following a humiliating defeat. All 4 goals were down to mistakes from individual players - they also need to be held accountable. I’d love to be at the post game review with Clark. So that Gareth Bale chap who is world renowned for being brilliant with his left foot. Talk us through your thought process on that one Mr Clark.

I was looking through some old team sheets and it’s a depressing read.

Ireland vs Holland 2001

Given, G Kelly, Dunne, Staunton, Harte, McAteer (O'Brien 90), Holland, Roy Keane, Kilbane, Duff (Quinn 87), Robbie Keane (Finnan 59).

Ireland vs Italy 2009

Given; O’Shea, Dunne, St Ledger, Kilbane; Lawrence, Andrews, Whelan, McGeady; Keane, Doyle.

Wales vs Ireland 2018

D Randolph, S Coleman (c), S Duffy ,C Clark , S Ward, C Christie , J Hendrick , C Hourihane, C O'Dowda , J Walters, C Robinson

Something drastic needs to happen ASAP if we don’t want to fall further behind. Relying on English clubs to train promising youngsters is not the answer. The FAI nvested in regional centres which is a great idea but I really do fear for our future. Particularly with kids seeing the success of the Irish rugby teams and dominance of the Dubs at GAA.yes of course the players need to be accountable but many of the ex-pros' remarks are surely very true:

Management don't work on a system. Every other team on the planet does
Players are asked to play roles that don't suit them
Players play worse for Ireland than at their clubs
We're simply a shapeless, strategy-less shambles


Did anyone else notice how we botched our own kick off to start the game? A perfect metaphor for the rest of the game.

[tricky_colour]

that wales team will be better then the version that reached the euro semis.
we were bad but i thought wales were very very good

Bale is worth more than the entire Irish team!

[brine3]

Didn't see the match. Thankfully I've stopped watching the Irish team. It's just too painful.

Maybe that makes me a bad fan, I dunno. But there's only so much needless self-torture a human can put up with.

[Diggs246]

Didn't see the match. Thankfully I've stopped watching the Irish team. It's just too painful.

Maybe that makes me a bad fan, I dunno. But there's only so much needless self-torture a human can put up with.

We win ltogether, we lose together baby

[brine3]

Watched every Irish competitive match for three decades. Been to a number of away matches. Slept in airports waiting for flight connections. But the Ireland team has now become a an ego trip gig for over the hill managers to cash in on their reputation. The Denis O'Brien money has been an absolute curse.

I have no beef with the players, but I'm fed up of being taken for a ride by the FAI and the management.

[liamoo11]

Maybe people will stop with the lazy iceland comparison after yesterday. They should not be the yardstick

[ifk101]

Maybe people will stop with the lazy iceland comparison after yesterday. They should not be the yardstick

Iceland is the yardstick to what can be achieved with limited resources. That's the comparison. The laziness is an acceptance we don't have the players when the focus should be on maximising the resources available to us.

[jbyrne]

Iceland is the yardstick to what can be achieved with limited resources. That's the comparison. The laziness is an acceptance we don't have the players when the focus should be on maximising the resources available to us.

we have been the iceland many times. once no 6 ranked in the world if my memory is correct, 1/4 final in 90, wc last 16 in 94 and 02.

for every iceland there is a holland, italy, chilie.......

[IsMiseSean]

Watched every Irish competitive match for three decades. Been to a number of away matches. Slept in airports waiting for flight connections. But the Ireland team has now become a an ego trip gig for over the hill managers to cash in on their reputation. The Denis O'Brien money has been an absolute curse.

I have no beef with the players, but I'm fed up of being taken for a ride by the FAI and the management.

I couldn't have put it better myself. Except I still go through the torture of watching on TV.

It'll be a long time before I pay to watch or follow the Irish team again.

[mypost]

I have to say I agree with all of this, except for the strongest back 5 bit. I think the I'd give the job to McCarthy tomorrow. Even Kerr again.

Don't get the clamour for Mick. There must be a reason why no English club wants him nowadays. He's not known for particularly open, expansive football. And Kerr isn't known as a attacking, free flowing coach either. His greatest "success" was with the Faroes, when all he had to do was park the bus again and again and again. Even when losing, so they could keep the score respectable.

That doesn't mean the current coach should still be there. Surely there must be a coach out there who understands the fundamental requirements of his job, can get the team organised without needing to park the bus, and doesn't fly off the handle with the media.

This one has already lost to Scotland, Poland, Serbia, Denmark, and Wales. And to be fair, only just lost out to Belarussia, Iceland, Turkey, Mexico and numerous others.

Atm, the rugger buggers are doing well, we have gymnasts, athletes, rowers, and hockey players setting new records and standards. If the FAI don't get their act together, the Ireland international could be well down in the publics priorities soon enough.

[pineapple stu]

Wales losing in Denmark at half-time...

Could be a long campaign, this one

[samhaydenjr]

Wales losing in Denmark at half-time...

Could be a long campaign, this one

... which is surprising, considering we've only three games left.

[pineapple stu]

Gonna be three long ones though

2-0 win in the end; Eriksen with both.