Future league challengers?

[Ezeikial]

As Dundalk meet Shamrock Rovers on Tuesday night, a win for the home team would put 30 points between the teams. Although Waterford in 3rd place have had a remarkable first season back in the top flight, there is still a whopping 20 points currently between them and Cork in 2nd place. The gap between the top two and their nearest challengers is vast and there is even further distance to the rest - in fact the top four teams are the only ones to have a positive goal difference.

Can Rovers or Waterford or any other side close this gap and realistically challenge the top two next season? What do they need to do to achieve this?

Stephen Bradley has consistently said that Rovers are closing this gap, but the league table evidence contradicts it. Paul Corrys take is interesting as are some of the replies to his latest RTE column

https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2018/0823/987080-the-future-is-bright-but-rovers-need-investment-now/

Is it feasible for any of the other teams like Derry, St Pats, Bohs or Sligo to mount a challenge in the foreseeable future?

[Lim till i die]

Are you really new to this league of Ireland stuff?

Athlone could win the league in two years time with a wacky enough owner ffs.

[GUFCghost]

If you look around Europe you'll see leagues dominated by two or three clubs. It could well be that the increase in UEFA prize money is making our league "normal", but I'd give it at least five years of Cork/Dundalk duopoly before we can reliably call it that.

[ger121]

If you look around Europe you'll see leagues dominated by two or three clubs. It could well be that the increase in UEFA prize money is making our league "normal", but I'd give it at least five years of Cork/Dundalk duopoly before we can reliably call it that.

Have we not had that already with Dundalk and Cork.Both teams will have shared the last 5 titles and I can’t see anyone crashing that party for the foreseeable future.

[EatYerGreens]

Can Rovers or Waterford or any other side close this gap and realistically challenge the top two next season? What do they need to do to achieve this?

Money. And a good manager - but primarily money.

[pineapple stu]

Have we not had that already with Dundalk and Cork.Both teams will have shared the last 5 titles and I can’t see anyone crashing that party for the foreseeable future.
And the last three cup finals too don't forget

[EatYerGreens]

And the last three cup finals too don't forget

This is the year for them to be drawn against each other prior to the final...

[Longfordian]

This is the year for them to be drawn against each other prior to the final...

We're putting one of them out in the next round..no question.

In reality we'll get UCD away and lose..no offence stu & co.

[Poor Student]

We're putting one of them out in the nest round..no question.

In reality we'll get UCD away and lose..no offence stu & co.

None taken. I'm sitting here thinking we'll get Longford away and lose....

[pineapple stu]

It's 2007 all over again...!

[sbgawa]

Half the gap is there because of the goalkeeping debacle for the first half of the season. 1 goal conceded in 7 since bazunu , manus took over. The other half is tricky because the sheer depth as well as quality of dundalk is massive. Rovers need to sign a couple and get Clarke back, then get lucky with injuries to key men. Form of players is key as well. Cork have shown it's possible to stay in touch.

[nigel-harps1954]

It's 2007 all over again...!

I'd be quite happy with 2007 all over again. Although, I'm not sure Waterford will end up in the playoff this time.

[oriel]

Strong finances and a good mgt team are key parts of any success, but so too is recruiting the right type of players. Exciting talent and a good attitude from players are equally important.

It will also take time to recruit and blend in the right players, looking back on Friday night Dlk v Finn Harps it was interesting to see the quality on the bench. Rogers, Shields, Benson, Duffy, Hoban, McGrath and Folan. Others weren’t even on the match day squad included Gartland and Poynton, leaving the injured duo of O’Donnell and Chevedukas.

A big squad is essential then to challenge, and that brings you back to having the finances in place. I don’t see any team challenging either Dundalk or Cork in the short to medium term in this regard.

[El-Pietro]

Half the gap is there because of the goalkeeping debacle for the first half of the season. 1 goal conceded in 7 since bazunu , manus took over. The other half is tricky because the sheer depth as well as quality of dundalk is massive. Rovers need to sign a couple and get Clarke back, then get lucky with injuries to key men. Form of players is key as well. Cork have shown it's possible to stay in touch.
Next year is your year.

[sbgawa]

Or the year after :)

[ger121]

And the last three cup finals too don't forget

Very true. I just can’t see the monopoly being broken over the next 5 years. Yes we’ve had teams be successful for periods of time in the past but overspending tended to bring that period of domination to an end. The way Cork and to a slightly lesser extent Dundalk are run,suggests that is unlikely to happen for the foreseeable future.

[marinobohs]

We have seen Shels, Bohs, and Shamrock Rovers 20 year dynasty's in the last decade or so, all came crashing down.One thing about the LOI is the relatively constant change.
while Dundalk and Cork look to be light years ahead of everyone else I would never underestimate the LOI clubs (any LOI club) ability to f*^k things up.If by some chance Dundalk (or Cork) maintain this supremacy they should be handicapped by starting at -20 points (or take Bradley as manager). If that doesn't do it we can all give up and jointly convert to whatever the latest day tripper fad is.

[seand]

If you look around Europe you'll see leagues dominated by two or three clubs. It could well be that the increase in UEFA prize money is making our league "normal", but I'd give it at least five years of Cork/Dundalk duopoly before we can reliably call it that.

As others have pointed out this is Year 5 of the Dundalk/Cork duopoly!

This is the thing that hasn't been there before, and it's evident across Europe. Euro prize money is distorting competition across Europe, from the likes of TNS up the food chain to BATE, Dinamo Zagreb, Basel, Celtic, Juventus.
Undoubtedly Dundalk and Cork will be in Europe next season. Whichever one is in the CL is guaranteed 800K. Rovers are at least qualifying for Europe every season despite their apparent 'crisis'. Add in their impressive infrastructure and strong support (relatively) and they're in pretty good shape and positioned to challenge in a couple of years.

[Ezeikial]

If they sign some better quality defenders it could well be the case that Shamrock Rovers could overtake Cork City next season. Whether that will be enough to make them league challengers remains to be seen

[Mr A]

Anyone hoping to challenge Dundalk will have to sign very well. They have the money to sign quality in depth that no one else can get near.

[CorribsideSteve]

Shamrock Rovers truly horrendous first half of the season completely wrote off the chance of a 3-way tie. Would expect them to do better next year. The Kevin Horgan debacle was a key sticking point. Good idea to have young players coming through, but they actually have some footballing intelligence to begin with.

[total hoofball]

I disagree with Corry's article stating Shamrock Rovers need investment, they have already been spending a very healthy budget since 2014 during the Dundalk/Cork dominance, the amount of flops they signed since 2014 is staggering. They need to find a suitable replacement for Bradley, sort their first team recruitment out and very importantly sign a striker who has the ability to hit 25 goals a season

Thanks to the UEFA money nobody else outside of Dundalk/Cork/Shamrock Rovers will challenge over the next 3 seasons unless a Leicester City is pulled-off or a lunatic with more money than sense is willing to burn their cash on another club

[Poor Student]

I disagree with Corry's article stating Shamrock Rovers need investment, they have already been spending a very healthy budget since 2014 during the Dundalk/Cork dominance, the amount of flops they signed since 2014 is staggering. They need to find a suitable replacement for Bradley, sort their first team recruitment out and very importantly sign a striker who has the ability to hit 25 goals a season

Thanks to the UEFA money nobody else outside of Dundalk/Cork/Shamrock Rovers will challenge over the next 3 seasons unless a Leicester City is pulled-off or a lunatic with more money than sense is willing to burn their cash on another club

If only it were the naughties again when a club could mortgage/flog their ground and fritter it away on fleeting short term success.

[Asterix]

If they sign some better quality defenders it could well be the case that Shamrock Rovers could overtake Cork City next season. Whether that will be enough to make them league challengers remains to be seen

You do realize that in the last 20 games or so Rovers have the best defensive record and out of the 32 games dundalk have only conceded 7 less.

It would be players that can score more that are needed.

[Charlie Darwin]

very importantly sign a striker who has the ability to hit 25 goals a season
Considering 25 goals in a season has only been done four times in the last 40 years, I'd say that signing is fairly unlikely.

[micls]

Considering 25 goals in a season has only been done four times in the last 40 years, I'd say that signing is fairly unlikely.

In fairness, that's cos usually when someone's on track for it they get snapped up mid season. But, yeah. A 20 a season striker is a more reasonable aim

[oriel]

Anyone hoping to challenge Dundalk will have to sign very well. They have the money to sign quality in depth that no one else can get near.

It’s going to be interesting alright, especially as Dundalk’s new owners haven’t really spent yet on the panel, well apart from wages. They came in when most if not all were already onboard for this season. They obviously sanctioned the fifty k or whatever McEleney cost, but I’d imagine they will have at least three new players in mind for next season. The only possible outgoing I can see that they won’t want to lose is Duffy, they’ll offer him a good deal to stay but an SPL or higher club will be able to outbid for him.

[sbgawa]

You do realize that in the last 20 games or so Rovers have the best defensive record and out of the 32 games dundalk have only conceded 7 less.

It would be players that can score more that are needed.

Agree completely. We need more goals. Watts will add some from midfield, Clarke will add a needed attacking threat but we still need a striker that can score 20

[Ezeikial]

You do realize that in the last 20 games or so Rovers have the best defensive record and out of the 32 games dundalk have only conceded 7 less.

It would be players that can score more that are needed.


I presume that when you are counting the "last 20 games or so" , you are excluding the cup defeats to Drogheda, Longford, Dundalk and AIK. By my count in the last 20 league games the comparisons are




P
W
D
L
PTS
F
A
GD


Rovers
20
11
6
3
39
34
12
22


Dundalk
20
19
0
1
57
54
12
42



A decent defensive record in that period belies the fact that there remains a big gap in results. The 18 point difference would equate to 32 points over the course of a 36 game season .

Strengthening in the weakness areas in defense could allow Rovers to play a more attacking game, although I agree that neither Carr nor Shaw are potent enough to get 20 goals a season

[EatYerGreens]

Thanks to the UEFA money nobody else outside of Dundalk/Cork/Shamrock Rovers will challenge over the next 3 seasons unless a Leicester City is pulled-off or a lunatic with more money than sense is willing to burn their cash on another club

Waterford have to be included in that list too IMO.

They'll also have European money. But even if they're banned from that, they still have a financial backer who can make up for It in the short-to-medium term. Just look at how well they've done this season without any Euro money, for example.

[Charlie Darwin]

I presume that when you are counting the "last 20 games or so" , you are excluding the cup defeats to Drogheda, Longford, Dundalk and AIK. By my count in the last 20 league games the comparisons are




P
W
D
L
PTS
F
A
GD


Rovers
20
11
6
3
39
34
12
22


Dundalk
20
19
0
1
57
54
12
42



A decent defensive record in that period belies the fact that there remains a big gap in results. The 18 point difference would equate to 32 points over the course of a 36 game season .

Strengthening in the weakness areas in defense could allow Rovers to play a more attacking game, although I agree that neither Carr nor Shaw are potent enough to get 20 goals a season
I think the draws column tells the story - we're keeping relatively tight at the back but it's only the last few weeks that we've started to score a few more goals. I wouldn't say the lack of attacking potency has much if anything to do with weakness in defence, it's just lack of ideas. Seems to be slowly changing now Watts is settled in but the season is almost over now.

[sbgawa]

I think Manus and Watts have made a huge difference since they came in

Last 10 league Matches
Rovers Scored 18 conceded 2
Dundalk Scored 22 conceded 7

I realise I'm picking a shorter batch but it is with both "current teams"
Dundalk are still far ahead as the depth of their squad means we would have to be lucky with injuries (Clarke was a huge loss this season but it happens)
There are a couple more very promising kids to come through that might help but the illusive 20 goal striker is the key ingredient.
Sometimes you can get lucky and a guy can have the season of his life, id say Towell in 2015 with 25 league goals (best other year 11) and Sean Maguire last year are examples. Scoring goals is either a class thing where a guy is just a good player and consistently scores 15-20 or a form thing where a guy hits a run of form.
Hopefully we get lucky with a guy next year who hits form as we can't afford the other type :) ...neither can any LOI club

With our current squad we have no chance of winning the league, we've been lucky with a settled team for the last while but that can't continue.
The off season will decide if Rovers can challenge. the current core + 3 or 4 more and a clear out to fund 4 first team type players.

[Peaky Blinder]

The off season will decide if Rovers can challenge. the current core + 3 or 4 more and a clear out to fund 4 first team type players.

The only way there'll be a clear out will be if Bradley leaves or is sacked. If he stays (which I think he will) there'll be 3 or 4 players tops brought in and the same let go, just cant see a 'clearout' happening and anyway it makes no sense as we'd be essentially starting from scratch again.

[Ezeikial]

I think Manus and Watts have made a huge difference since they came in

Last 10 league Matches
Rovers Scored 18 conceded 2
Dundalk Scored 22 conceded 7

I realise I'm picking a shorter batch but it is with both "current teams"


Its always possible to build a case by being selective on recent results.
For example you could get even more " current" and just compare the last 2 league matches
Rovers 6-0
Dundalk 4-2

Rovers can improve their standing next season, but not with a defence where Lee Grace is the nearest thing to a decent defender who is a regular starter

[marinobohs]

The only way there'll be a clear out will be if Bradley leaves or is sacked. If he stays (which I think he will) there'll be 3 or 4 players tops brought in and the same let go, just cant see a 'clearout' happening and anyway it makes no sense as we'd be essentially starting from scratch again.

Do Rovers fans really believe Bradley is capable of mounting a title challenge even if he got resources ? Kenny and Caulfield are established winners and their respective owners can trust them with money (based on what they have delivered), I'm far from convinced the same can be said about Bradley.

[sbgawa]

Do Rovers fans really believe Bradley is capable of mounting a title challenge even if he got resources ? Kenny and Caulfield are established winners and their respective owners can trust them with money (based on what they have delivered), I'm far from convinced the same can be said about Bradley.

Current run since transfer window would suggest he can be trusted, my definition of a clear out is 4 or 5 players out 4 ish in.
of course the fact that hes just completing hios second full season as a manager and is 33/34/35 something like that proves conclusively he will never win anything :)

[marinobohs]

Current run since transfer window would suggest he can be trusted, my definition of a clear out is 4 or 5 players out 4 ish in.
of course the fact that hes just completing hios second full season as a manager and is 33/34/35 something like that proves conclusively he will never win anything :)

Just wondered.He isn't well rated around the league as a manager (although highly rated as a coach) so if there was to be any sort of clear out and/or major change I would have thought it a big call to make it with him in situ

[sbgawa]

Should bohs trust Long for next year ?
Take out getting the team up for matches against Rovers and its relegation form...
perspective is everything

[Burnsie]

I'd be very interested to get a price on Shams in a match bet v Cork next season (or maybe betting without Dundalk, since I can't see any other team splitting the current top three).

Obviously getting that prolific striker is easier said than done, and I do think they could do with an upgrade at the back of their midfield too

[micls]

Current run since transfer window would suggest he can be trusted, my definition of a clear out is 4 or 5 players out 4 ish in.
of course the fact that hes just completing hios second full season as a manager and is 33/34/35 something like that proves conclusively he will never win anything :)

A run of games when there's no pressure on, not a huge amount left to play for, doesn't really give evidence just he should be trusted. His issue has always been consistency and that hasn't been resolved. The cup loss and latest Bohs loss would fill you with confidence, and that's post Mannus and Watts.

[bluemovie]

Termonbarry City will be future challengers

[sbgawa]

No pressure ????
3rd place and Europe is beyond vital for the club .....not getting it would handicap the club and strengthen a rival.

[micls]

Sure, but it's highly likely 4th will also get Europe. Its far from make or break to come 3rd. When it was make or break, league and Cup, they floundered.

[sbgawa]

Lol rovers weren't even in 4th when they started this run. Anyway Good luck against bohs then we can relax .

[ger121]

Should bohs trust Long for next year ?
Take out getting the team up for matches against Rovers and its relegation form...
perspective is everything

Are you for real? We’ve been on an excellent run lately and much improved since the mid season break. Think your perspective is a bit warped.

[mcgonigle]

Can everyone please stop this nonsense? Stephen Bradley is the right man to lead the Shamrock Rovers project for many years to come. This fantastic run is clear evidence. What might have been if the league was only 50 games longer....

[Kingswood Rover]

Do Rovers fans really believe Bradley is capable of mounting a title challenge even if he got resources ? Kenny and Caulfield are established winners and their respective owners can trust them with money (based on what they have delivered), I'm far from convinced the same can be said about Bradley.
I do not think he can but you would wonder how close he was to being binned after the droghemians results. He always seems to do enough to hang in.His interviews lack even a semblance of humility and are any oppositions perfect motivational tool. 3rd year Mr B time to do the job right.

[Nesta99]

He deserves the chance to throw the kitchen sink at players to get them signed rather than taking them on trial. The keeper conundrum has been sorted now with Mannus back, will Bazanu stay another season to finish his leaving cert? Clarke will be back from injury too so things will be looking up. Cork are ripe for picking so a few players might sign pre contracts though their worth might depend on whether they beat Bohs this afternoon and Rovers are always players top pick unless other clubs offer crazy money. Dominating the underage rnaks well there are bound to be a few more 16 year olds that can be put in the shop window/blooded in senior football
In all seriousness though I do think things could click for Rovers next season and close the gap to being challengers for the league. They will be better next season no matter how Bradley does things as simply having a better keeper will add at minimum 10 points. O'Brien will be fit probably and help the younger defenders. Finn might be motivated in a team that is more competative. How other teams do in the off season will have a baring - there are a few clubs eyeing up that 2nd spot next season:p

[marinobohs]

Should bohs trust Long for next year ?
Take out getting the team up for matches against Rovers and its relegation form...
perspective is everything

Management is about getting the best possible return from the resources available. I would suggest Long is light years ahead of Bradley on that basis. I suspect most would.

[RathfarnhamHoop]

will Bazanu stay another season to finish his leaving cert?

Don't know how many times this has to be said, FA rules mean he can't legally move to England until after his Leaving Cert.