League of Ireland Finances

[Mr A]

John O Connor doing some very interesting blogs on the financial results of LOI clubs. So far Derry, St Pats, Limerick, Shamrock Rovers and Dundalk. More to come as well.

https://leagueofirelandfinance.blogspot.com/

The blogs speak for themselves but show even some of the clubs making Europe are hugely dependent on 'investment' in one form or another.

[Longfordian]

I didn’t realise Dundalk’s wage bill jumped that much in those years. Though as the article states the 2014 figure was surprisingly low and clearly they have been able to pay it.

[Yossarian]

I didn’t realise Dundalk’s wage bill jumped that much in those years. Though as the article states the 2014 figure was surprisingly low and clearly they have been able to pay it.

Bonuses for qualifying for the Europa League group stage would make up a big part of the wage bill for 2016.

[oriel]

Bonus payments for 2016 would have easily exceeded €1M, as the senior players, probably most of the first team regulars got €40k each. It was a fair enough payment given the club took in around 6m gross, without the players performing to this level, prize money would have been a fraction of this.

Interesting to note the figure DFC still have as cash at bank, quite a healthy balance and good to see as always need to have a rainy day fund for less successful seasons.

[Ezeikial]

Interesting to note the figure DFC still have as cash at bank, quite a healthy balance and good to see as always need to have a rainy day fund for less successful seasons.

The takeover by the Peak6 consortium probably renders this irrelevant.

This cash at bank was most likely part of the consideration that Peak6 paid the former owners or may have been extracted in some tax efficient manner prior to sale.

Suffice say that either way the current owners are likely to have access to cash if they wish to spend

[oriel]

The takeover by the Peak6 consortium probably renders this irrelevant.

This cash at bank was most likely part of the consideration that Peak6 paid the former owners or may have been extracted in some tax efficient manner prior to sale.

Suffice say that either way the current owners are likely to have access to cash if they wish to spend

That's a fair point, it was also suggested by Dan McD on the weekly LOI podcast that Dundalk will be strengthening during the winter, so the funds are clearly there to be used.

[placid casual]

Are you guys aware if any of the peak6 money is to be used to make ground improvements, or do you feel the bulk big the cash will be spent on squad improvements? Genuine question btw.

[sbgawa]

Peak 6 have made it clear that investment in the ground will come from profits through success on the pitch.
With the likes of McElhaney, and others signed on good multi year contracts 2 or 3 rounds in Europe wont leave much for investing in the ground.
The only way I can see any major investment in the ground will be by another group stage qualification or significant transfer income as a result of the longer contracts.

Either is possible and that is the business plan. Its a reasonable chance of success but depends to a large extent on winning the league and getting a crack at the champions route. The boost in seedings following the 2016 success means they have a leg up.

The challenge for everyone else is to come up with a way of competing with the bigger budget.
Great admiration for Cork for what they've done (I've been writing them off all season) for me Rovers have to gamble on having the best possible starting 11..... and fill out the squad with youngsters or low cost squad players and then hope for a bit of luck with injuries.

[dundalkfc10]

Are you guys aware if any of the peak6 money is to be used to make ground improvements, or do you feel the bulk big the cash will be spent on squad improvements? Genuine question btw.

They stated when they took over, any improvements would take place gradually. They have put tarmac down in the home end side of the stand and behind the town end goal. Have done up the YDC building again, has a bar which was open for the European games. Prob be open for the big games as Lillywhite is fine on its own for normal games.

At the start of the summer chairman has said plans have been submitted to the relevant authorites, but could be at least 6 months before they have an update.

Rumour around town, that they are considering purchasing the Derryhale Hotel (closed this years) direct across from Oriel. This could mean Oriel is what they plan to do up and not a new ground in another location.

Dundalk fans as much as anyone would love an updated ground (although no ground in the league comes close to Oriel for noise when its packed) but im sure every teams fans could say the same on that one

[Ezeikial]

Are you guys aware if any of the peak6 money is to be used to make ground improvements, or do you feel the bulk big the cash will be spent on squad improvements? Genuine question btw.

Clear priority is to build the squad and generate revenue through European participation

It may be that ground upgrades are planned for sooner than originally indicated

[oriel]

The most active member of the new owners, and the chairman, Mike Tracey has acknowledged the away section is the worst in the league (not hard to be fair) but at least he has mentioned this on numerous occasions, so hopefully something will be done soon. He also went into that section to chat to Bohs fans for the first of the 2 home games this season.

I would like to see even some temporary improvements made in the short to medium term (noting the home section on the town side of the stand isn't much better), hopefully they will make further improvements during the winter, but I would say any longer term new builds for instance, will be a bit away, but its on their radar (we hope).

For immediate investment, it would appear the squad will take priority, this is where the earned income will hopefully come from to invest into the ground.

[Longfordian]

Bonuses for qualifying for the Europa League group stage would make up a big part of the wage bill for 2016.

Yeah for some reason I was thinking that wouldn’t have shown until 2017 but obviously it would have been paid in 2016.

[ToberonaTornado]

They stated when they took over, any improvements would take place gradually. They have put tarmac down in the home end side of the stand and behind the town end goal. Have done up the YDC building again, has a bar which was open for the European games. Prob be open for the big games as Lillywhite is fine on its own for normal games.

At the start of the summer chairman has said plans have been submitted to the relevant authorites, but could be at least 6 months before they have an update.

Rumour around town, that they are considering purchasing the Derryhale Hotel (closed this years) direct across from Oriel. This could mean Oriel is what they plan to do up and not a new ground in another location.

Dundalk fans as much as anyone would love an updated ground (although no ground in the league comes close to Oriel for noise when its packed) but im sure every teams fans could say the same on that one

They'll quickly go from billionaires to millionaires if they buy that money pit black hole :D
Ever wonder why there's not a lot of investors or none lined up to take that project over?

I honestly think we'll see some investment in the ground in 2019 with the away area being prioritised.I really hope so.

[Longfordian]

I was surprised at how low Harps’ payroll was in 2016, €164k. Ours was €205k, we’d overachieved in 2015 with a €198k payroll. Bray managed to make a €120k profit in 2016, not sure how they managed that?

[pineapple stu]

Director investments, same as everyone else. Just means they were at least paying off debt, not building it up.

Surprised how close Pat's payroll was to Cork's tbh

[El-Pietro]

https://leagueofirelandfinance.blogspot.com/2018/10/shamrock-rovers-financial-update-2017.html?m=1

Interesting stuff on the costs associated with Roadstone.
Also of note is that Rovers playing/coaching budget was 1.2m euro in 2017. Cork City's was 1.1m. I don't think Dundalk have filed accounts yet so we won't know what they spent for a while yet but I would expect they outspent us as well. We just need one more club with a higher budget and we can claim the prize of fourth biggest budget.

[sbgawa]

I think some of the people involved in roadstone must still be on the club books as 83k doesn't come near the full time staff and paid coaches in roadstone. The investment is huge but if we can produce kids for the first team and get the odd transfer like bazunu it might prove to be the right path. If u look around the league at the number of kids coming through t he work by the fai introducing the national underage leagues is going to pay off for everyone. I don't buy into the vibe that we aren't producing talent. That talk just suits o Neill and his ilk.

We are still claiming the 4th largest playing budget :)

[El-Pietro]

We are still claiming the 4th largest playing budget :)
You can claim it all you want!

[Real ale Madrid]

https://leagueofirelandfinance.blogspot.com/2018/10/shamrock-rovers-financial-update-2017.html?m=1

Interesting stuff on the costs associated with Roadstone.
Also of note is that Rovers playing/coaching budget was 1.2m euro in 2017. Cork City's was 1.1m. I don't think Dundalk have filed accounts yet so we won't know what they spent for a while yet but I would expect they outspent us as well. We just need one more club with a higher budget and we can claim the prize of fourth biggest budget.

Come on Waterford - you can do it!

[placid casual]

Read through a few paragraphs of that document and kept seeing the words "I assume"... Stopped reading after that.
Chippie living up to his moniker.

[PartySaint]

Read through a few paragraphs of that document and kept seeing the words "I assume"... Stopped reading after that.
.

Only says that twice and it was pretty much at the end so you got through most of it.

[seand]

I think it's pretty obvious given the Euro windfall in 2016, the American investment and the subsequent signing of McEleney, Duffy and every other attacking midfielder in the league that Dundalk, clearly, have the fourth highest playing budget in the league.

[sbgawa]

Maybe its like Nascar and in fact all the top teams have identical cars.
So we all do have the 4th biggest budgets

[marinobohs]

Read through a few paragraphs of that document and kept seeing the words "I assume"... Stopped reading after that.
Chippie living up to his moniker.

Are any of the assumptions wrong or do they just not suit your agenda ?
Feel free to correct any invalid assumptions, presuming you can.

[RathfarnhamHoop]

Interesting to see that Rovers lost roughly 200k in 2017. To put that in perspective that's roughly 1,000 extra tickets per home league game. I think Rovers averaged around 3,000 in 2017 so in theory if Rovers could get similar crowds to Cork (4,000-5,000) the club would make a profit each year as things are. Also something of note is that's equivalent to a TV deal worth just €1 million per year for the premier division if split evenly, which is nothing really and shows how handicapped the league is by the lack of one.

[redobit]

Interesting to see that Rovers lost roughly 200k in 2017. To put that in perspective that's roughly 1,000 extra tickets per home league game. I think Rovers averaged around 3,000 in 2017 so in theory if Rovers could get similar crowds to Cork (4,000-5,000) the club would make a profit each year as things are. Also something of note is that's equivalent to a TV deal worth just €1 million per year for the premier division if split evenly, which is nothing really and shows how handicapped the league is by the lack of one.

Groundbreaking insight :p. Somebody should really tell all the LOI clubs that they will make a profit if they can improve their attendances.

[RathfarnhamHoop]

Groundbreaking insight :p. Somebody should really tell all the LOI clubs that they will make a profit if they can improve their attendances.

I pointed it out as Rovers have hit those numbers at times recently so there are clearly that many people with some sort of interest in attending regular league games so it's a very achievable figure and shows the club aren't far from being self sufficient.

[redobit]

If ifs and buts were candy and nuts ... we'd all have a merry Xmas.

[ToberonaTornado]

John O'Connor @chippie1974 full thread on Twitter; https://twitter.com/chippie1974

Dundalk finally posted their 2017 accounts. Made a loss in the year of (€83k) which surprised me with the Euro monies still to go through the accounts. They had a payroll bill of €1.8m in 2017 compared to Rovers €1.2m and Cork €1.1m.

At Nov'17 Dundalk had €2.5m cash in the bank so they were well set for going forward. Given over the 2016 and 2017 they received circa €8.1m from their European run their profits for the 2 years of €3.1m seem low. From the payroll number bonuses were paid but still seems low.

As the 2 shareholders sold their shares on 18/01/18 and monies paid to them would not have to be disclosed as they would no longer be related parties. Full blog post on Dundalk tomorrow.

[sullanefc]

Caulfield gets a lot of stick here when he talks about budgets. From that tweet above we were at most, 3rd highest.

To win the league with Dundalk so far ahead was a great achievement.

Going to be difficult next year with our budget compared to theirs.

[pineapple stu]

John O'Connor @chippie1974 full thread on Twitter; https://twitter.com/chippie1974

Dundalk finally posted their 2017 accounts. Made a loss in the year of (€83k) which surprised me with the Euro monies still to go through the accounts.
Why would the Euro moneys still be outstanding?

[Ezeikial]

Caulfield gets a lot of stick here when he talks about budgets. From that tweet above we were at most, 3rd highest.

To win the league with Dundalk so far ahead was a great achievement.

Going to be difficult next year with our budget compared to theirs.

Winning the league and cup double in 2017 was a great achievement - doing it with the 3rd highest budget is even more so.

Most of the stick that Caulfield got in relation to budgets and recruitment in 2018 was that his squad appeared unbalanced and few of his big signings actually worked out

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DrE__TAX0AAs0YE.jpg
Source: John O'Connor Tweet

https://twitter.com/chippie1974/status/1058698446511706113

[forza]

I find it amazing that he doesn't talk about his own club where he is a member, yet goes through other clubs finances...

[David BOHie]

I find it amazing that he doesn't talk about his own club where he is a member, yet goes through other clubs finances...

​https://leagueofirelandfinance.blogspot.com/

He did a whole section on Bohs here in case you missed it. The Pats obsession continues

[Dalymountrower]

I find it amazing that he doesn't talk about his own club where he is a member, yet goes through other clubs finances...

He covered every club , including Bohs, have you read any of the material?

[marinobohs]

I find it amazing that he doesn't talk about his own club where he is a member, yet goes through other clubs finances...

Oh dear, caught trying to be a smart ass but not smart, just makes you.....😊

[forza]

Oh dear, caught trying to be a smart ass but not smart, just makes you.....😊

I missed the Bohs one, **** happens :D

[ger121]

I missed the Bohs one, **** happens :D

You ok hon?

[Kingdom]

I'm retarded when it comes to money at the best of times. Is that the budget or the expenditure of clubs in the PL? Bohs are doing remarkably well if they've the 3rd lowest budget or spend in the league

[White Horse]

I'm retarded when it comes to money at the best of times. Is that the budget or the expenditure of clubs in the PL? Bohs are doing remarkably well if they've the 3rd lowest budget or spend in the league

Ever thought of applying to be on the licencing committee?

[Pablo Escobar]

I'm retarded when it comes to money at the best of times. Is that the budget or the expenditure of clubs in the PL? Bohs are doing remarkably well if they've the 3rd lowest budget or spend in the league

Tbf to you, it looks like a lot of clubs do ignore the actual costs going through the P/L.

As for your question, I may be missing something obvious here, but I'll take the risk of a whoosh.....this is actual not budget.

[pineapple stu]

If it's coming from the Companies Office returns, then it'll be actual.

But you'd hope that actual spend would be close enough to budget - cos otherwise there's something wrong with your budgeting process.

I like that Derry are missing every year, so we still can't definitively answer the question of who has the fourth-largest wages bill in the league

[marinobohs]

I'm retarded when it comes to money at the best of times. Is that the budget or the expenditure of clubs in the PL? Bohs are doing remarkably well if they've the 3rd lowest budget or spend in the league

Bohs only 3rd lowest because everyone else claims 4th highest budget 😁

[Philosophizer]

Bohs are doing remarkably well if they've the 3rd lowest budget or spend in the league

This is true. They got plenty of credit this year and rightly so. What they're doing on a shoestring budget is frankly incredible! Their budget is about a quarter or a third of that of the top 4 clubs, and about half of that of the other mid table clubs like Pats, Sligo and Derry. And they finished 2 points off 5th this yr!

Relative to budget, are Bohs the best performers in the division??

[sbgawa]

7th or 8th biggest budget finished 6th .
Good performance undeniably, Keith Long has done a good job, + TC

[RathfarnhamHoop]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/8e55110a-42b0-11e9-af00-ec1d0a9dead5

Delaney earned just 15k less than the total prize money for the whole premier division last year. But he bought pints once so **** it it's grand

[marinobohs]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/8e55110a-42b0-11e9-af00-ec1d0a9dead5


Delaney earned just 15k less than the total prize money for the whole premier division last year. But he bought pints once so **** it it's grand

Absolute disgrace the money that spoofer leeches off Irish football. Imagine the promotional campaign the LOI could run on half a million euro

[Nesta99]

The debt of the FAI would be well serviced over the years of his tenure!!

[blueblood]

Sure Delaney deserves it doesn't he always say how he works 7 days a week...... it must be all uefa work he's doing and probably about an hours work a day the lying sh1t.

[Kingswood Rover]

FAI granted a nice bit of funding for the Project all hail JD.