LOI 3rd Tier

[sullanefc]

https://twitter.com/DomesticIreland/status/1031827834619273216?s=19

New 3rd division in 2020 to bridge the gap in underage structures. Will also involve provincial senior leagues.

[Buller]

Pineapple Stu will be happy when he see's this!

[pineapple stu]

Is that page reliable?

Would be a very interesting development. Though without other supports - particularly financial - it would lack real impact I'd say.

[nigel-harps1954]

They should call it something like 'A Championship' and fill it up with reserve teams and various junior and intermediate sides.

[RathfarnhamHoop]

Almost sounds like a league to make it a makeshift pyramid system, or am I being too optimistic?

[Briuk]

That's the only way to go and it should be also the only way to qualify for the cups. Any team that doesnt join the system, bye bye

[pineapple stu]

Is this to be a national third tier actually? The tweet reads as if it is. That's daft obviously. You can't drag teams into the First Division; you haven't a hope of getting anyone for a Second Division.

[Eminence Grise]

So far only the Sun is running with this. https://www.thesun.ie/sport/football/3009918/fai-league-of-ireland-third-tier/ So many words and so little substance... There may be something to it - some one may have let the cat out of the bag, or it may be somebody in the FAI flying a kite. It is silly season in the media, though not usually in sports. In principal I'm in favour of it, once it's properly funded, well regulated and clearly thought out. Which means my default setting will probably be complete opposition!

[Burnsie]

https://www.thesun.ie/sport/football/3009918/fai-league-of-ireland-third-tier/

here is the original report

Agree entirely that the finances will determine whether anything like this can work. But a pyramid structure of some description is crucial

[Eminence Grise]

Forget pyramids. We need something appropriately Irish and not one of them foreign structures. A crannog league is what’s needed. Every club in a tribal defensive stronghold, accessible by a path that only initiates know and damn the Man Yoo, Citeh and Celthick fans. And given the slash and burn nature of some clubs (not looking at anyone in particular, nearly every club’s been there) it’s dead easy to lash up some new wattle and DOB walls (in honour of the new Honorary Life President) on the original site, throw on a bit of thatch and start again.;)

[total hoofball]

Is this to be a national third tier actually? The tweet reads as if it is. That's daft obviously. You can't drag teams into the First Division; you haven't a hope of getting anyone for a Second Division.
You won't get any LSL or MSL clubs touching this anyway due to downgrading playing the re-born Shamrock Rovers 'B', the costs and the certainty they end up like St. Francis

Then you won't get any of the existing First Division teams signing up for this on the justified fear on ending up getting relegated to this Frankenstein LOI 2nd Division/A Championship which failed before

For the FAI to waste time and oxegen to kite fly this absolutely thick non-runner ever of an idea just shows why domestic football in this country is eternally fooked

They should just bring back the under-21 league if they are serious about 20/21 years olds not dropping out of the LOI prematurely into intermediate football

[sidewayspasser]

I think in order for this to work, it has to be regionalised, and the funding has to be done right. Also, there would have to be a clear and defined link with the intermediate leagues - in both directions: How does it work if a club wants to step up, and how does it work if a club wants to go back into the intermediate leagues.

[EatYerGreens]

I wonder is there any significance in the fact that this league is reportedly due to be introduced in 2020 - which is also coincidentally the time by when Delaney has reiterated that the FAI will be debt-free.

Giving the FAI an unhealthy benefit of doubt, I wonder if the timing is far from coincidental, and if money will be put behind this by Abbotstown ? Because if there isn't money being put into it (and the rest of the pyramid as well), it's hard to see why intermediate clubs would accept the proposal in the first place. So maybe - just maybe - we're seeing the slow unveiling of what the FAI plans to do once it's shaken off its stadium debts.

Right - back to the cynicism again :D

[sbgawa]

You might be on to something there , at the end of the day the fai is not a for profit organisation so if they have money to spend then why couldn't it be spent on the league.

[Mr A]

A big issue with liking up with intermediate football is that apart from in Leinster it's not really a well established thing. The USL is North Donegal teams plus Derry reserves (in fairness it would be hard to run a league across Cavan, Donegal and Monaghan) and the MSL is all Cork. Connacht doesn't have intermediate football at all. There is so much to sort out, a third tier should not be done in isolation.

[passinginterest]

If the FAI is serious about restructuring football into something resembling a pyramid structure then this is a necessary step. The FAI can make it happen by ensuring only leagues registered with the FAI are eligible for grants/funding etc. There's a need for consolidation of leagues across the country anyway. There's far too many breakaway's and blazer fiefdoms all over the place that are totally unnecessary and counter productive. It's a chance to establish proper regional intermediate level leagues that offer the opportunity of promotion to the national league (if wanted/meeting the necessary financial/facility standards) and relegation to a more affordable level for first division clubs that might be struggling. Of course, the big issue is the fiefdoms will all have a vote at the top table and none of them will want to cede power. The answer, as ever, will be money, throw enough at the right people and all the problems will disappear very quickly. Break away leagues will probably still exist, especially at the junior levels, but they'll eventually be like the casual astro leagues, operating outside the official structures.

[Burnsie]

A big issue with liking up with intermediate football is that apart from in Leinster it's not really a well established thing. The USL is North Donegal teams plus Derry reserves (in fairness it would be hard to run a league across Cavan, Donegal and Monaghan) and the MSL is all Cork. Connacht doesn't have intermediate football at all. There is so much to sort out, a third tier should not be done in isolation.

this is true so far as it goes, but I think the distinction between Junior and Intermediate football (whatever about its relevance in the past) needs to be abolished if something like this is going to work (to say nothing of the problems it's causing in amateur football in Dublin). The likes of Sheriff and Evergreen are probably as strong as most teams playing at Intermediate level.

[pineapple stu]

If the FAI is serious about restructuring football into something resembling a pyramid structure then this is a necessary step. The FAI can make it happen by ensuring only leagues registered with the FAI are eligible for grants/funding etc. There's a need for consolidation of leagues across the country anyway. There's far too many breakaway's and blazer fiefdoms all over the place that are totally unnecessary and counter productive. It's a chance to establish proper regional intermediate level leagues that offer the opportunity of promotion to the national league (if wanted/meeting the necessary financial/facility standards) and relegation to a more affordable level for first division clubs that might be struggling. Of course, the big issue is the fiefdoms will all have a vote at the top table and none of them will want to cede power. The answer, as ever, will be money, throw enough at the right people and all the problems will disappear very quickly. Break away leagues will probably still exist, especially at the junior levels, but they'll eventually be like the casual astro leagues, operating outside the official structures.
I think this is entirely true. The question then is whether the proposal actually addresses that. A third tier would just add another layer onto the existing problems. Are the FAI going to strong-arm the non-league clubs into the league like they did with the junior clubs? It would be good, but again, it needs to be done in the right way. Nothing that's been said as yet - which, admittedly, is very little - indicates that the FAI are really going ahead with this correctly.

But the very fact that they're even contemplating it is, for now, encouraging.

[Burnsie]

By way of background, the FAI is currently undertaking a review of amateur men's football in the Dublin region (with a view to expanding nationwide after that). I would assume the Tier Three proposal is related to that.

The reason to start in Dublin is that there are a number of competing league structures who have been co-existing unhappily in recent years.

The Leinster Senior League is the largest by far. It has the only intermediate section (top four divisions), and has been cannibalising the other league structures, particularly the AUL, which has lost so many clubs in the past few years that it can barely fill its divisions (its two top tiers have eight and seven clubs, respectively, as the new season is about to begin). In addition, there is the United Churches League (a relatively small scale operation, and poor enough standard) and the Amateur Football League (which I think recently tried to merge with a Wicklow league, which failed, so have now gone purely over-35s).

The LSL is attractive because it offers the possibility of intermediate football (although what the purpose of this is, beyond prestige, is lost on me), and obviously the more clubs that move over, the stronger it becomes at the expense of the others, creating further incentives.

Dublin is a small city, this is a small country, and there's no reason why there isn't a single amateur structure in the region. Blazers and fiefdoms is right. There was a recent attempt at a bit of a coup at the Leinster FA AGM (which in turn, I think, elects the lads who sit and nod silently while Delaney presents his accounts each year) because the LSL didn't have a representative at board level, despite its size and prominence.

It all speaks to the difficulties the FAI faces in introducing any sort of structural reform. I give them credit for the work done at schoolboy level to bring about the U13/U15/U17 nationwide divisions. There must have been some fraught meetings with the DDSL bigshots but in fairness they managed to make it happen without major loss of life, Perhaps that has emboldened them in their new effort, but it's going to be a big job.

[GUFCghost]

I've sold A-Championship clubs to Tralee,Fanad and Salthill and by gum it put them on the map!

[disgruntled]

https://twitter.com/DomesticIreland/status/1031827834619273216?s=19

New 3rd division in 2020 to bridge the gap in underage structures. Will also involve provincial senior leagues.
Long overdue.


Almost sounds like a league to make it a makeshift pyramid system, or am I being too optimistic?

You are :)


I think in order for this to work, it has to be regionalised, and the funding has to be done right. Also, there would have to be a clear and defined link with the intermediate leagues - in both directions: How does it work if a club wants to step up, and how does it work if a club wants to go back into the intermediate leagues.

Being regionalised would work but there needs to be serious finance put into this.
Either do it properly or don't do it at all.

[Eminence Grise]

Agreed - half-assed tinkering has served no club or the league well. Pony up and do it well.

[the 12 th man]

The likes of Sheriff and Evergreen are probably as strong as most teams playing at Intermediate level.

Not probably,they are.The AUL in which Sheriff play looks about to either fold or merge (because of teams defecting to the LSL -Including Kilbarrack Utd,Collinstown,St Kevins Boys and a lot more going back a couple of years) so it might get interesting.

[Shearer]

What clubs would you have in it lads?

Lot of people have said that the clubs that have underage but no senior team should be made join so that's Kerry, Mayo, Carlow-Kilkenny and Monaghan United-Cavan.

Just looking at Munster, you've got Kerry, I'd suggest UCC definitely as they could probably be in the league as it is, probably one or two more from the MSL as well. St. Michael's from Tipp definitely, maybe a club from Clare whether that be one of the Shannon clubs or Newmarket, Pike would be a viable one especially if Limerick didn't put in a reserve team (probable). Anything from Waterford? Carrick?

[NeverFeltBetter]

Have a feeling any the Limerick Junior sides would have to be dragged kicking and screaming into this. Maybe the city/county could field some kind of League select?

[CraftyToePoke]

There was a thread on here a few months back, speculating on where new clubs might come from.

[Martinho II]

Newbridge Town for me as mentioned on a previous thread to answer your question..

[Eminence Grise]

What clubs would you have in it lads?

Some ideas on that discussed here (https://foot.ie/threads/232522-Where-might-new-clubs-come-from) recently.

[SeanDMRooney]

you can have a pyramid systen and have the likes of Salthill Devons getting promoted into someone elses back garden or you can have slow expansion based on geographic location and get two divisions of 12 teams or something i know which one id lean toward

[legendz]

Intermediate League of Ireland (ILOI) is what the tier could be called placing it on a par with the provincial senior leagues.

The criteria for teams being involved should be the same as applies to the underage leagues. This avoids a repeat of the scenario of having too many clubs from one area.

Lol clubs in the ILOI could have U23 rules as across the water. Non-LoI teams at the ILOI level could play without those restrictions allowing the top team a play-off against the bottom team in the First Division.

People more in the know on here have spoken before about people with power in the senior leagues being big fish in their pond and not wanting that eroded. These leagues can still run as they are the ILOI running parallel to them.

Ruud Dokter said that while structures from abroad might be great, they have to work and be tweaked for each country. This has applied to the underage leagues brought in.

The Intermediate League of Ireland suggested above can be an Irish solution to some form of pathway to LoI level while allowing the senior and junior leagues continue as they are.