Shels Stad move still on?! [Archive]

Buller

26/03/2005, 9:01 PM

I found this on my computer from a while back.. Are shels still goin ahead with this?!

14/12/2004 1:14 PM
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Shelbourne to sell Tolka Park in move to Donabate

Shelbourne FC is planning to sell off Tolka Park stadium in Drumcondra, North Dublin for EUR40m to developers and open an integrated facility in North County Dublin

SHELBOURNE FC is planning to sell off Tolka Park stadium in Drumcondra, North Dublin for EUR40m to developers.

This will allow it fund a top-of-the-range integrated sports campus in Donabate capable of holding up to 8,000 people.

The current Eircom National League champions have already held discussions with developers and with Dublin city councillors going back over 18 months about getting its Drumcondra power base rezoned as suitable for residential use.

At the same time, Shelbourne is in talks with Fingal Country Council about getting a greenfield site in Donabate rezoned to allow them fulfil their ambitious stadium plans that will also include a gym, junior soccers pitches and all-weather playing field.

The complexity of these negotiations, according to club chairman Finbarr Flood, means the club is unlikely to leave Drumcondra until at least three years' time.

"Our objective is to get all of our activities on to the one site," he said, adding the club currently uses five different locations to train and play matches.

Mr Flood said having everything on the one site would lead to major synergies both in terms of improving the quality of facilities available to its players and eliminating the EUR130,000 a year it currently costs it to rent pitches around North county Dublin.

The Shelbourne chairman stressed that any move would be subject to getting local councils' approval and was ultimately designed to allow the club to better compete in Europe.

The story first emerged in the Fingal Independent which quoted Senan Turbull, a senior Fingal County Council executive, as saying the move was "a great opportunity to have a premier team in Fingal".

It is understood the FAI has had no direct talks with Shelbourne.

However, they are expected to do so next year as part of major talks with all of the Eircom League teams about their structural development.

Slash/ED

26/03/2005, 9:06 PM

Yeah it's still going ahead.

thejollyrodger

26/03/2005, 9:27 PM

I would love to see some graphics of the new stadium

Buller

27/03/2005, 11:32 AM

Stevo Da Gull

27/03/2005, 4:52 PM

If thats really what it will look like it will be the best in the league by a long way(it's Elfsborgsstadium http://www.stadiumguide.com/borasarena.htm), followed by the Cross which should look brilliant after they have their improvements (cover the seats behind the goal and demolish the shed and replace it with 1500 all-seater stand).

Slash/ED

27/03/2005, 4:56 PM

Yeah, someone on shels web said it will have two tiers and look something like this when its fully finished!!! Although thats very doubtful!!! :(

The two tiers would mean that the atmosphere would not be badly affected for eircom league games by closing the upper tiers when crowds are smaller. Then opening them for european matchs when the crowds come flocking in... :cool:

It wont look like that at first, we're building a smaller one to begin with that can be 'easily expanded' into a 15-20,000 seater stadium later, so I'd assume when it first opens it'll be like that ground without the top tiers and then we'll look at adding them on. I agree two tiers is absolutley ideal, means we can play big European matches there with big crowds and not lose the atmosphere when the regular league games are on.

CollegeTillIDie

27/03/2005, 5:00 PM

Slash/ED

27/03/2005, 5:07 PM

Without wishing to rain on anyone's parade.... I have one question.
If it is nigh on impossible to attract crowds to Tolka Park which is in Drumcondra and easily accessible from the City Centre and a lot of other points..... and I think over the years Home Farm and now Dublin City and Shelbourne have successfully proved that is impossible to attract crowds there on a consistent basis, despite the fact that it is the best stadium in Dublin......... why does anyone think that it will be easier to attract crowds to Donabate? :confused:

Having everything in the one site makes sense though and saving €130,000 a year in renting other facilities would go some way towards paying wages etc.

It's as high as 300,000 a year.

I agree with you about the location, it's not good, the plan is that that area is planned for massive expansion with thousands and thousands of houses supposed to be going into the area, so we'll establish ourselves as part of the growing community and get support from the local residents on top of what we already have, which was never going to happen in Drumcondra. Short term it wont help crowds at all and seems like a strange move but long term it could ultimately pay off big time, it's a risk and we'll see how it goes, but opinion on if it's a good idea or not is 50/50 atm, if anything the majority are against it.

The club will really have to run buses from the city centre and maybe Drumcondra to help get people out to it because there's little to no public transport in the area so if they don't people will struggle just to get there.

BobtheDrog

27/03/2005, 6:37 PM

It wont look like that at first, we're building a smaller one to begin with that can be 'easily expanded' into a 15-20,000 seater stadium later, so I'd assume when it first opens it'll be like that ground without the top tiers and then we'll look at adding them on. I agree two tiers is absolutley ideal, means we can play big European matches there with big crowds and not lose the atmosphere when the regular league games are on.

sounds very similar to the drogs new stadium, we're also apparently planning on putting in seats on wheels so that they can be easily removed

Buller

27/03/2005, 7:45 PM

sounds very similar to the drogs new stadium, we're also apparently planning on putting in seats on wheels so that they can be easily removed
:D :D :D
At least the drogs new stadium will HAVE seats!! :mad:

CollegeTillIDie

27/03/2005, 8:21 PM

It's as high as 300,000 a year.

I agree with you about the location, it's not good, the plan is that that area is planned for massive expansion with thousands and thousands of houses supposed to be going into the area, so we'll establish ourselves as part of the growing community and get support from the local residents on top of what we already have, which was never going to happen in Drumcondra. Short term it wont help crowds at all and seems like a strange move but long term it could ultimately pay off big time, it's a risk and we'll see how it goes, but opinion on if it's a good idea or not is 50/50 atm, if anything the majority are against it.

The club will really have to run buses from the city centre and maybe Drumcondra to help get people out to it because there's little to no public transport in the area so if they don't people will struggle just to get there.
Yes but you will still be facing the same problem lazy jackeens who cannot be arsed to commit themselves to supporting a football team every fortnight will be living in Donabate then ... some are there already!

thejollyrodger

27/03/2005, 8:24 PM

I seen that stadium before. It looks great and would really suit the Eircom League. If anyone takes a look at the attendence figures they will see a big jump from last year. Thanks to the TV deal probably and Shels good run last year which raised the profile.

So if clubs keep doing well in Europe no doubt the crowds will increase. As long as they keep improving the league etc.

Im in favour of the new stadium out in Donabate. its going to be awkward for anyone living in the city at the start but Shels really need a long term home. Somewhere were they can properly develop a football club alongside a growing population.

€300,000 savings each year is not to be sneezed at. Personally I think the government should be invovled to build the extra tiers on the proposed stadium. Or give some kind of finanical help. The league really need stadia like this if they want to raise the profile and attrack supporters.

A face

27/03/2005, 8:33 PM

Yes but you will still be facing the same problem lazy jackeens who cannot be arsed to commit themselves to supporting a football team every fortnight will be living in Donabate then ... some are there already!

To be fair i think every club suffers from this laziness from the general public ..... just more evident/highlighted more often/not actually true with Shels.

If the current market that Shels are trying to appeal to are not interested ... then target the schools etc. and work on the crowds that way. And to be honest ...... are Shels even advertising properly ? are any dub clubs advertising properly ? are any clubs advertising properly ?

Slash/ED

27/03/2005, 8:38 PM

To be fair i think every club suffers from this laziness from the general public ..... just more evident/highlighted more often/not actually true with Shels.

If the current market that Shels are trying to appeal to are not interested ... then target the schools etc. and work on the crowds that way. And to be honest ...... are Shels even advertising properly ? are any dub clubs advertising properly ? are any clubs advertising properly ?

Shels put posters up around Dublin with upcoming fixtures on it.

A face

27/03/2005, 8:42 PM

Shels put posters up around Dublin with upcoming fixtures on it.

Thats not enough !!

higgins

28/03/2005, 9:34 AM

That stadium was mentioned on the site as a good example of what we should be looking at. However the new stadium is only set to have 7,000 seats and is based on the rushden and diamonds stadium ??

There will not be two tiers and im not sure what they mean by saying it can be 'easily' expanded :confused:

Its not very often we get a crowd of 7,000 and Im sure the crowds will drop for a time when we move at first but Id prefer to at least keep the 10,000 capacity that we have at the moment. Im probably being blindly optimistic but Id hate to see Shels become popular and only have 7,000 seats :rolleyes:

dougdub

28/03/2005, 10:41 AM

I live in Donabate and I cant imagine a big interest in Shelbourne in the Donabate Portrane area. At the moment there's only a population of around 4,000 in the immediate area. For instance there's no direct bus from the city,and the railway station is at least 2 miles from the site.

I think if they were in Donabate they'd be looking at moving more centrally to Drumcondra ! Step backwards I think !

I know I'll only be nipping in when the Bohs are in town if they do move!

higgins

28/03/2005, 3:06 PM

Its not in Donabate Dougdub. Its a site in Lissenhall and I believe its roughly the same distance from Swords centre as to Donabate. There is more then 4,000 living within a few km radius so the numbers are there to at least continue with the crowds we get at the moment.

will it help crowds?? who knows. Tolka for whatever reason doesnt seem to get us anywhere and staying in Tolka will never let shels grow past a small stadium. Im sure a site closer to town is preferred but the cost is against us and we have to move away from town.

There is no Direct bus from Town but there are buses to Swords and trains to Donabate. There seems to be a bus linking Donabate to Swords that runs through and stops in Lissenhall. Have you ever used this service or could you not really call it a service :)

like a badger

28/03/2005, 4:33 PM

Lissenhall is even worse than Donabate, at least people live in Donabate, the M1 is the only resident in Lissenhall. Good man Ollie, move to a motorway...........

higgins

28/03/2005, 5:12 PM

Yes that does seem to be true ....

You dont have to live beside a ground to become a fan. The current fans of shels will probably travel longer distance then someone going from swords to Lissenhall. I dont think distance or whats around the ground will matter.

Its access to the site thats crucial, and on that issue we have yet to hear any decent plan from Ollie and Co.?? Probably means there is no plan but I'll remain optmistic until its further down the line.

A face

28/03/2005, 11:31 PM

Right ..... if Shels fúck this one up ...... they'll have themselves to blame.

Fair enough move if you have ambition and it can be realised

If it cant

Then dont fúcking move !! ..... it aint rocket science !!

Right now ..... Tolka is fine for what you need.
The new site (it seems) is not anywhere near that AND more importantly WILL NEVER BE NEAR THAT !!

That is where the alarm bells should be sounding very very loudly, if it aint what you need, the DONT move there.

Or else there'll be more negitive press about ye in Dublin, and you dont really need that right now ..... or ever.

ThatGuy

28/03/2005, 11:36 PM

Even die-hard Shels fans would accept that the club is not making any profits, so I can't see a move to the stadium in the forseeable future. Probably will only ever happen if they qualify for the Champions League, which will be very tough for them to do, to put it mildly.

higgins

29/03/2005, 11:32 AM

Qualify for champions League?

Its to be funded from the sale of Tolka Park. The money made from the sale is to go towards the cost of the new site and the building of the stadium.

BobtheDrog

30/03/2005, 11:41 PM

Qualify for champions League?

Its to be funded from the sale of Tolka Park. The money made from the sale is to go towards the cost of the new site and the building of the stadium.

cant sell the ground until the new one is 2 thirds completed, introduced after what happned to rovers

Slash/ED

31/03/2005, 1:37 AM

cant sell the ground until the new one is 2 thirds completed, introduced after what happned to rovers

That wont stop them spending the money that will be earned from the sale of the ground on the new ground :)

And if that's true whoever came up with that rule deserves alot of praise.

Ringo

31/03/2005, 7:40 AM

Qualify for champions League?

Its to be funded from the sale of Tolka Park. The money made from the sale is to go towards the cost of the new site and the building of the stadium.

This has been discussed many times. They can't sell what they don't own. They have a long lease for a football ground. The land belonggs to the people of Dublin. Its not going to happen.

pete

31/03/2005, 8:57 AM

thejollyrodger

31/03/2005, 9:56 AM

The anyone but shels (ABS) supporters think it wont happen. Well if it wasnt possible to get money from the sale of Tolka to fund the new ground then Shels wouldnt be looking for a new home. Shels are going to get some money from Tolka, obviously not the full amount since Dublin city own it. But it will be enough for us to build a new stadium.

manic da hoop

31/03/2005, 10:27 AM

I was of the opinion that it was the 99 year lease on the site that Shels owned that they would be selling. This in itself (provided they could get the land re-zoned for residential) could go for anything up the €15million. The council may own the land, but shels own the lease AFAIK.

exile

31/03/2005, 10:57 AM

And to be honest ...... are Shels even advertising properly ? are any dub clubs advertising properly ? are any clubs advertising properly ?
bray to all lot of heavy adveristing in south county dublin and bray cant go anywhere in the town without seeing a poster for the next match

pete

31/03/2005, 11:44 AM

You'll often see small posters for shel$ games around town. Virtually never see posters for other dublin clubs but they probably concentrate on their local communities more whereas shel$ don't really have much local community that i've noticed which would explain ground move.

BohDiddley

31/03/2005, 1:56 PM

A long way from home (http://www.softguides.com/dublin/maps/images/x55aa57.gif)

Slash/ED

31/03/2005, 2:37 PM

This has been discussed many times. They can't sell what they don't own. They have a long lease for a football ground. The land belonggs to the people of Dublin. Its not going to happen.

Well that's not what we think, we're selling the lease on it and we will make enough money to cover toe new stadium. Why the bleedin' hell would we basically give up a stadium for free if we couldn't get a penny for it and move to a new stadium that will cost more than it takes to run the club for a decade?

Schumi

31/03/2005, 2:41 PM

My understanding was that the council would effectively buy Shels out of their lease so that they could sell the land for housing. It'd be worth their (council's) while because otherwise they'd be waiting 60 years (or however long Shels' lease is) to sell.

Da Real Rover

31/03/2005, 3:30 PM

But how much do they think the new stadium will cost???

Bald Student

31/03/2005, 3:36 PM

But how much do they think the new stadium will cost???They say 10 million for land and 17 million for buildings.

Da Real Rover

31/03/2005, 3:43 PM

Is there any terraces going in???

Slash/ED

31/03/2005, 4:27 PM

Is there any terraces going in???

Not as far as I know but some fans are trying to make them get terraces put in. Personally I'd rather all seater with one end where everyone stands anyway like we have now, so we don't end up all over the place for Europe.

thejollyrodger

31/03/2005, 5:01 PM

an all seater stadium is the way to go. We can play all our European games there. The best seats are the seats in the San Siro. Effectively it is like a terrace. I dont know if we can get away with that here but it would be great.

Ringo

31/03/2005, 6:44 PM

Well that's not what we think, we're selling the lease on it and we will make enough money to cover toe new stadium. Why the bleedin' hell would we basically give up a stadium for free if we couldn't get a penny for it and move to a new stadium that will cost more than it takes to run the club for a decade?

With a lease, you can sell it on, but only with the landlords consent. If Dublin City Council want to they can refuse to allow shels to sell to a third party. Why would the City Council give a private Company( which shels is) a load of money? Where would they get it & why wouldn't every other Dublin club not feel cheated.

Slash/ED

31/03/2005, 6:46 PM

With a lease, you can sell it on, but only with the landlords consent. If Dublin City Council want to they can refuse to allow shels to sell to a third party. Why would the City Council give a private Company( which shels is) a load of money? Where would they get it & why wouldn't every other Dublin club not feel cheated.

If you feel cheated, that's your business. But you're being incredibley niave and a bit stupid if you think shels are just giving up Tolka Park without getting a penny for it then moving to stadium that will cost enough to run the club for a well over a decade, hopeing Olly will find the 27m under his couch or something.

Ringo

31/03/2005, 9:36 PM

If you feel cheated, that's your business. But you're being incredibley niave and a bit stupid if you think shels are just giving up Tolka Park without getting a penny for it then moving to stadium that will cost enough to run the club for a well over a decade, hopeing Olly will find the 27m under his couch or something.

You're being incredibley niave and a bit stupid, too use your quote to think you'll get a bag of money and be alowed to walk away. Not every rate payer in Dublin or householder is a Shelbourne fan. The lease has a value , no one suggesting its not worth something, i just don't think its going to work for Shelbourne. The basis for all the talk about money is based on some notion that it can be re-zoned & a load of apartments can be built on it. Don't think the locals would like to see it re-zoned & by ensuring the new apartments don't flood , it would cause another flood somewhere else ( the water has to go somewhere). Every person who lives along the Tolka would not like to see their home put under more risk of flooding. Having a lease also ties Shelbourne to Tolka unless they can sell it on. A lease works both ways.
The best Shelbourne can hope for is to sell it on another sports group, soccer or GAA.
I know you love your club & you have this little dream of getting millions for Tolka & moving to a brand new stadium, but its not going to happen. Shelboure need to start making a profit , before any bank will lend them money for a new stadium. I'm not the enemy & i'm not against shelboure, i'm just trying to point out the problems involved.

thejollyrodger

31/03/2005, 10:00 PM

there is a new €100 anti flooding system being built in Dublin or is already built. It was in the indo. There wont be any more flooding in that part of Dublin anymore :)

The government is committed to developing sport. It will facilitate whatever club as best it can. there is already houses all around Tolka so its not going to me a massive problem.

I can see the theatre of dreams opening in Donebate in the next 3-4 seasons :)

Slash/ED

31/03/2005, 10:05 PM

You're being incredibley niave and a bit stupid, too use your quote to think you'll get a bag of money and be alowed to walk away. Not every rate payer in Dublin or householder is a Shelbourne fan. The lease has a value , no one suggesting its not worth something, i just don't think its going to work for Shelbourne. The basis for all the talk about money is based on some notion that it can be re-zoned & a load of apartments can be built on it. Don't think the locals would like to see it re-zoned & by ensuring the new apartments don't flood , it would cause another flood somewhere else ( the water has to go somewhere). Every person who lives along the Tolka would not like to see their home put under more risk of flooding. Having a lease also ties Shelbourne to Tolka unless they can sell it on. A lease works both ways.
The best Shelbourne can hope for is to sell it on another sports group, soccer or GAA.
I know you love your club & you have this little dream of getting millions for Tolka & moving to a brand new stadium, but its not going to happen. Shelboure need to start making a profit , before any bank will lend them money for a new stadium. I'm not the enemy & i'm not against shelboure, i'm just trying to point out the problems involved.

I'm not dreaming of the brand new stadium, quite the opposite, I'm just telling you that the reality is it looks like the land will be rezoned for residental use and Shelbourne are going to sell it and build the new stadium on the money made, ala Finn Harps. If we can't sell the stadium, we have no other money to fund the new one, so the move isn't possible. That's the reality, shels will make a packet off of the ground sale. If that wasn't true, there would be no move, simple really.

Buller

31/03/2005, 10:34 PM

Funny, i made all this banter with one post.. i love this site! and the league.. :)
I (and many others) have learnt loads now about shels move... thanks guys!!!! :D :D :D

A face

31/03/2005, 10:43 PM

I (and many others) have learnt loads now about shels move... thanks guys

No worries Buller .... you're more than welcome !! ;) :p

Ringo

01/04/2005, 11:35 AM

[QUOTE=thejollyrodger]there is a new €100 anti flooding system being built in Dublin or is already built. It was in the indo. There wont be any more flooding in that part of Dublin anymore :)
QUOTE]

€100 won't go far :D . If was in the indo it must be true :rolleyes: The problem is the building in meath, thats causing the Tolka to flood.

[QUOTE=thejollyrodger]
The government is committed to developing sport. It will facilitate whatever club as best it can.
QUOTE]

:D april 1st!!!!

thejollyrodger

01/04/2005, 11:46 AM

here take a lesson in how to use the[ quote]quote message without space[ /quote] :) w

Im not pulling your leg about the €100 million anti flooding measures either;)

Ringo

01/04/2005, 11:49 AM

I'm not dreaming of the brand new stadium, quite the opposite, I'm just telling you that the reality is it looks like the land will be rezoned for residental use and Shelbourne are going to sell it and build the new stadium on the money made, ala Finn Harps. If we can't sell the stadium, we have no other money to fund the new one, so the move isn't possible. That's the reality, shels will make a packet off of the ground sale. If that wasn't true, there would be no move, simple really.

The land has not been rezoned under Dublin City Development Plan 2005-2011]

Dublin City Council made the Dublin City Development Plan 2005-2011 on 14th February 2005 at a Special Meeting of the City Council. The Plan comes into effect on 14th March 2005

You'll will have to wait till 2011, to see can it be re-zoned