View Full Version : have Shels been docked three points for ...
A face
24/03/2005, 12:25 AM
So what the story .... are Shels losing the points for this ??? (http://breakingnews.iol.ie/sport/story.asp?j=137086138&p=y37x86844)
What is going to happen ..... are does the rule book apply in this case ??
I don't think they'll lose points, although Collins will probably still have to serve the ban. Maybe they can schedule it with the eL for when he's on holidays or something and then that won't be too much of an inconvenience ? ;)
Hibs4Ever
24/03/2005, 7:36 AM
Can you change the name of this thread.
It got me a little excited thinking they actually HAD been docked points :D
Which will never happen :mad:
thejollyrodger
24/03/2005, 8:39 AM
It got me a little excited thinking they actually HAD been docked points
Which will never happen
They shouldnt loose points for something that doesnt require points to be deducted ;)
MariborKev
24/03/2005, 8:41 AM
Collins was so arrogant about this on the radio on Friday night, I hope they are docked points
He claimed he didn't read the papers and didn't know about it
monutdfc
24/03/2005, 8:45 AM
That's complete rubbish. Before the season started all clubs were circulated with a list of suspensions. The league were good enough to include the 2 coach's suspensions at the bottom in a separate section. There is no way Shel's did not know about it.
thecorner
24/03/2005, 9:49 AM
Collins was so arrogant about this on the radio on Friday night, I hope they are docked points
He claimed he didn't read the papers and didn't know about it
for that reason alone,they should be docked the points
thread title amended to add in the word 'have'
otherwise way too misleading
observer
24/03/2005, 11:00 AM
If a club loses three points because a sub who came on for 10 minutes and who had played for the club the previous season, had been ommitted from the original registration list sent in by the club (Athlone last year), then it would be a scandal if Shelbourne get off with this one. It will definitely prove that there is one law for some and the boot for the rest. I hope the other club delegates have the balls to ensure that the rules are adherred to.
:ball: :ball:
EnDai
24/03/2005, 11:10 AM
There's a difference between a player and a coach tbh. Honestly, I would say the fairest solution would be to impose an extended ban, say 5 matches or something. It was stupid of him, but docking points for something that didn't actually happen on the field would be a bit geh.
pineapple stu
24/03/2005, 11:22 AM
would be a bit geh.
:confused:
I'd suggest a replay would be fairest (coach would probably just stand behind the dugout anyway, like Dolan did when he was sent off that time), but I don't want to lose the point! :p
Gareth
24/03/2005, 11:26 AM
Look, if the rules state we are docked points, then we got docked. If the rule is that we get docked, I think the rule should then go under examination and review to the hope it would be changed to be more suitable to the crime (extended ban and fine).
If the rulebook doesn't have points being deducted then I think all this talk of Shels , rule for them and a different one for others, is utter muck talk. I wouldn't mind but most of the posters seem to have worked this scenerio so far in their own minds that they are accusing us already of changing the rulebook and we have gotten away with it.
Wil lye ever cop on. If it was any other tea, ye'd be fine with a fine. Its a coach. You and I know that a ban and fine is more apt a punishment.
thecorner
24/03/2005, 11:33 AM
I think the rule should then go under examination
of course u do :rolleyes:
A face
24/03/2005, 11:36 AM
There's a difference between a player and a coach tbh.
UEFA dont seem to think so, but if shels think so then that is a different matter !!
harpskid
24/03/2005, 11:43 AM
UEFA dont seem to think so, but if shels think so then that is a different matter !!
Sure Ollie would know better than that UEFA crowd :rolleyes:
Look, if the rules state we are docked points, then we got docked. If the rule is that we get docked, I think the rule should then go under examination and review to the hope it would be changed to be more suitable to the crime (extended ban and fine).
If the rulebook doesn't have points being deducted then I think all this talk of Shels , rule for them and a different one for others, is utter muck talk. I wouldn't mind but most of the posters seem to have worked this scenerio so far in their own minds that they are accusing us already of changing the rulebook and we have gotten away with it.
Wil lye ever cop on. If it was any other tea, ye'd be fine with a fine. Its a coach. You and I know that a ban and fine is more apt a punishment.
You sir are an idiot. Players/managers and coaches are all dealt with by the same disciplinary committee - all receive the same set of sanctions. Shels blatant disregard for the rules of our game IS A SCANDAL. possibly the biggest ever to hit th league ....and thats saying something.....I;d post this on shels web only i was banned for posting up the EXACT rules on this matter.
They should be docked for the match. Plain and simple.
The Cover up has begun.....and it stinks....luckily ure so shít on the field this season it wont matter to us....Pats for the league!
bluemovie
24/03/2005, 12:07 PM
:confused:
I'd suggest a replay would be fairest (coach would probably just stand behind the dugout anyway, like Dolan did when he was sent off that time), but I don't want to lose the point! :p
No way! That would be a bonus for Shels to have the chance to make up for a poor opener when, by all accounts, they were lucky to even get one point. A fine and an increased ban seems fair enough.
Schumi
24/03/2005, 12:09 PM
I'd suggest a replay would be fairest (coach would probably just stand behind the dugout anyway, like Dolan did when he was sent off that time), but I don't want to lose the point! :p
I say bring on the replay so we can get the two points we lost. :D
will it be behind closed doors .......... again
snigger
Shelsman
24/03/2005, 12:13 PM
Shels blatant disregard for the rules of our game IS A SCANDAL. possibly the biggest ever to hit th league ....and thats saying something..... !
Yes it's very bad form them ignoring a ban. As my fellow Shels fan said, if it's in the rules that they get docked points, then so be it.
As for it to be the biggest scandal ever, I can't agree. There have been occassions when clubs haven't turn up for matches ( I think it was Cork vs Bohs in St. Colmans a few years ago ).
Then there was the scandal in St. Cheats where they fielded two illegible players and nearly brought the whole league down because they wouldn't accept the rules.
As for calling another fan an idiot after quite a reasonable post, that was uncalled for. Clearly you hate Shels, and it seems any of their fans too. :( :rolleyes:
A face
24/03/2005, 12:15 PM
of course u do :rolleyes:
:D .......
thecorner
24/03/2005, 12:17 PM
this fella that broke the rules...whats his name again????
well anyway...him....his club broke the rules, he is part of that club and its the club that should be punished....
A face
24/03/2005, 12:24 PM
Lads, it is a non issue really ... there aint much Shels can do about this one, if the rules are adhered to then they lose three points, simple as. Ollie can throw a hissie fit all he wants, it will just prolong it.
fosterdollar
24/03/2005, 12:29 PM
they fielded two illegible players
eh, you should have gone to Specsavers... ;)
Shelsman
24/03/2005, 12:31 PM
eh, you should have gone to Specsavers... ;)
Didn't really want to call them illegitimate .......... :)
fosterdollar
24/03/2005, 12:38 PM
You could have done. Just make sure you say 'illegibly' (they are) to avoid any reper-ma-cushions.
Gareth
24/03/2005, 1:16 PM
See, I posted that we should accept the punishment we get and I am called a fool. wws , read the post. I said we should accept what comes our way but your blind overeagerness to post how much you hate shels clearly hindered your ability to read properly.
I personally couldnt care less what went before, if the rule states it we accpet it. Simple as that.
thats a non denial denial
A face
24/03/2005, 1:20 PM
thats a non denial denial
I think that warrants another three points being docked !! :p
Gareth
24/03/2005, 1:25 PM
Well I have no more to say :) Btw you wws, your in the majority, no one can post on the shels board at the moment.
If it was any other tea, ye'd be fine with a fine.
If it was "any other team" ollie byrne would be all over the papers demanding they be docked points, excommunicated, deported, flogged etc :rolleyes: The reason people are so keen to see Shels punished, is because shels have always been keen to see others punished. What goes around, comes around.
I for one am against the idea of points being deducted for footballing matters. I was against it when Pats had points deducted, I'm still against it now. But shels have been asking for this. If you're going to take the moral high ground, you should make sure not too step in a pile of shít on the way up
Gareth
24/03/2005, 2:00 PM
Well I can take any stance I like, as despite my footballing loyalties, I also have opinions and they can differ from club stances. I stand by the case that if a rule is broken, the stated punishment should be exercised. No middle ground. Pats broke a rule, they got punished. Athlone broke a rule, they were punished based on the punishment for breaking that rule, so now Shels broke a rule. We simply need to find out what that punishment is. If its a points deduction, fair enough. Christ, you all talk of rulebooks and how we seem to break it when we are merely stating we should FOLLOW the damn thing, no matter it be flawed, its still the rulebook. Stop hiding behind teh fact you hate Ollie so much and face it, rules were borken, punsihment was given. If other clubs have not got punished for the same offences its not our fault, its the fault of teh enforcers of the rules.
:) Does anyone realise I AGREE with a punishment based on the rulebooks assessment.
Stop hiding behind teh fact you hate Ollie so much and face it, rules were borken, punsihment was given. If other clubs have not got punished for the same offences its not our fault, its the fault of teh enforcers of the rules.
Thats fair enough, I'm not going to deny that I hate Ollie at all. What annoys me is the way that Shelbourne FC, or its representatives, seem to go on a crusade against other clubs over these things- they can't realy blame people for reacting like this
:) Does anyone realise I AGREE with a punishment based on the rulebooks assessment.
Yes.
right ok
ok
gareths one of us
he's on the side of LAW AND ORDER (suv)
hoooooray
now lets get down to business.....
the punishment - as I see it there are only three choices open
if we follow the Koran we can chop off his hand (probably)
The bible - eye for an eye
and the "rulebook" copyright ollie byrnes da
we'll give him a slap on the wrist and dock UCD points for causing this mess!
tiktok
24/03/2005, 3:32 PM
It's stupid to dock them points but Collins should be banned from the toughline for a long time to come, measured in months as opposed to games and the club should be fined.
higgins
24/03/2005, 9:22 PM
Does anyone know what the rule is???
I doubt it.....
Calling for this that and the other on the basis of previous broken rules wont get you anywhere. If the rule stats you should be docked 50 points then Id be 100% behind shels being docked 50points.
I dont think you seem to realise that Ollie (although to Shels advantage) is actually doing the Eircom League a favour in calling for the league to stick to the rules that are voted in by the clubs at the start of the season.
Of course its shels he has in mind but the whole league ecends into a farce when rules are not followed. Many a good thing has come from Ollies pressure to follow rules. Despite what you think of the man it has brought the league a little bit more structure.
Back to the Collins debate!!
First find out what the punishment is and then call for it to be enforced exactly like Ollie has done.
Im fully behind implementing rules so whatever it is lets do it and get on with it.
thecorner
24/03/2005, 9:50 PM
I dont think you seem to realise that Ollie (although to Shels advantage) is actually doing the Eircom League a favour in calling for the league to stick to the rules that are voted in by the clubs at the start of the season.
lets see his take on this one then :D
higgins
24/03/2005, 10:10 PM
What does that mean?
You hardly expect him to be out calling for shels to be punished :confused:
I'd worry more about the people involved in your own clubs and the fact they are prepared to sit back and see the rule book thrown out the window when decisions are made.
If the rule says you are docked 3 points and the punishment is just a fine I'd expect other clubs to speak out against it and see that the rule book is followed.
Maybe one of you should put the effort it takes to post about this issue into actually finding out what the rule is ?
bluemovie
14/04/2005, 10:37 AM
Am I missing something? I found a paper yesterday with the reports from the final day of last season. After Bracken was sent off for Bohs v Cork, referee Ian Stokes sent Gareth Farrelly (who wasn't playing, but was on the bench in a managerial capacity) off for dissent. Was this rescinded or something because Farrelly hasn't served a suspension? He played in the first game of the season v Rovers when Ian Stokes was again the referee.
tomsoc
14/04/2005, 11:06 AM
It's not always automatic in the eL that club officials sent off receive a ban (or any punishment). Pat Fenlon has been sent off more than once without receiving any punishment. I'm almost sure the same happened when Stephen Kenny and Pat Dolan were sent to the stands in previous seasons.
Bald Student
14/04/2005, 1:31 PM
I dont think you seem to realise that Ollie (although to Shels advantage) is actually doing the Eircom League a favour in calling for the league to stick to the rules that are voted in by the clubs at the start of the season.He only does that when it's to Shels' advantage. For example, when the league's rules called for Shels to pay a 20,000 euro transfer fee to UCD, Ollie went in and out of the high court to try to avoid paying it.
A face
14/04/2005, 1:35 PM
Seriously though ..... what is happening to Eddie Collins over this ??
Does anyone know ?? ....... surely he wont get away with it scott free ?? :eek:
I mean ... if it is the case .... then things would be really starting off on the wrong foot, might as well tear up the rule book now. It is as if the league are telling people they can break the rules ..... is that the case now ??
Ollie went in and out of the high court to try to avoid paying it.
Don't UEFA or FIFA have a rule that says clubs cannot go to Court when disputes arise? I think all disputes are supposed to be resolved within the football authorities. I don't think we often see english clubs going to court over disputes with the Premier League or FA?
:rolleyes:
Schumi
14/04/2005, 2:10 PM
I think the case was actually taken by Cawley himself rather than Shels.
Bald Student
14/04/2005, 2:19 PM
Don't UEFA or FIFA have a rule that says clubs cannot go to Court when disputes arise?They do but it contradicts Irish law so it's ignored here.
That's enough of the off topic though. Has anyone found out yet what the punishment for fielding an inelligable coach is?
They do but it contradicts Irish law so it's ignored here.
That's enough of the off topic though. Has anyone found out yet what the punishment for fielding an inelligable coach is?
Don't you mean an illegible coach ? (Copyright Shelsman) :D :D
Good question though.
Slash/ED
14/04/2005, 8:53 PM
Lads, it is a non issue really ... there aint much Shels can do about this one, if the rules are adhered to then they lose three points, simple as. Ollie can throw a hissie fit all he wants, it will just prolong it.
What rule would that be that says having a suspended coach = a 3 point deduction in a game we got 1 point in :confused:
MariborKev
14/04/2005, 9:48 PM
What rule would that be that says having a suspended coach = a 3 point deduction in a game we got 1 point in :confused:
Unbelievable logic that
You should only be deducted points for breaking the rules when you win the game :eek:
Slash/ED
14/04/2005, 9:52 PM
Unbelievable logic that
You should only be deducted points for breaking the rules when you win the game :eek:
Learn to read, or stop talking funny substances that has you seing things that aren't there.
pineapple stu
14/04/2005, 10:04 PM
Learn to read, or stop talking funny substances that has you seing things that aren't there.
Think he's right Slash - the result you got has nothing to do with how many points can be deducted. Pat's drew in Belfield a couple of years ago with Mbabazi in their team and were docked thre points because he wasn't registered.
However, you're right that no-one has turned up any evidence of a rule saying a three point deduction is the punishment in this case.
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