Crisis at Limerick - unpaid wages and players free to leave

[Partizan]

I don't understand why any news concerning Limerick is banned here but this is very important and cannot be just brushed under the carpet. I sincerely hope Limerick FC get out of this. After all, they were the first club to help us out when we went through a similar crisis two seasons ago.

https://www.irishmirror.ie/sport/exclusive-limerick-fc-face-max-12636424

[Sidefx]

I don't understand why any news concerning Limerick is banned here but this is very important and cannot be just brushed under the carpet. I sincerely hope Limerick FC get out of this. After all, they were the first club to help us out when we went through a similar crisis two seasons ago.

https://www.irishmirror.ie/sport/exclusive-limerick-fc-face-max-12636424

https://mobile.twitter.com/cunneen92?lang=en
https://twitter.com/paulohehir/status/1002675822162006017?s=19

[pineapple stu]

I wonder will anyone ask Fran Gavin if he feels the FAI have created the atmosphere for this to happen?

[redarmyfaction]

Jesus wasn't expecting that. Cue chants of are you Athlone in disguise for the rest of their possibly short season, they must have Spunked all their money suing Foot.

[osarusan]

https://www.limerickleader.ie/news/sport/316547/breaking-limerick-fc-s-brendan-clarke-confirms-players-will-be-allowed-to-leave.html


Limerick FC goalkeeper Brendan Clarke has confirmed that the club owe the entire squad wages for the month of May and that officials insisted they won’t get in the way of players leaving should they receive an offer.

And check out this beauty from Clarke: “We were assured that we wouldn’t be owed a penny by the club, just that they couldn’t tell us when the money would be there.”

F**king shameful from the club, and to think that the chairman was sitting in the stands bellowing at them, in the aftermath of that.

[total hoofball]

Oh no, another LOI club not paying it's players, who could have seen this coming? etc.

It's the FAI's fault

Licenses repeatedly awarded to clubs with blatant fake budgets in January/February year after year after year

Can't wait to see Fran Gavin this Monday on his first bi-annual appearance on Soccer Republic to calm the LOI family following this latest unforeseen event

[total hoofball]

https://www.limerickleader.ie/news/sport/316547/breaking-limerick-fc-s-brendan-clarke-confirms-players-will-be-allowed-to-leave.html



And check out this beauty from Clarke: “We were assured that we wouldn’t be owed a penny by the club, just that they couldn’t tell us when the money would be there.”

F**king shameful from the club, and to think that the chairman was sitting in the stands bellowing at them, in the aftermath of that.
Shocking, credit to the Limerick squad for pulling off any kind of result, all demonstrated alot of character

[David BOHie]

Is it the FAI's fault that Limerick are overspending?

[Mr A]

Limerick have never missed wages before in fairness. Hard for the FAI / Licensing body to deny a license on the basis that the funding might suddenly dry up- because a fair few clubs around the league are in the exact same position.

[micls]

Is it the FAI's fault that Limerick are overspending?

Is this a serious question? The FAI granted them a licence, and saw the proposed budget. Limerick were having issues before the season started and went in to sign some well experienced and not cheap players. If you feel the FAI have no role to play in overseeing the financial side of clubs, to protect the integrity and image of the league, I'm not sure what you see the point of them or the licencing process as being.

[micls]

Limerick have never missed wages before in fairness. Hard for the FAI / Licensing body to deny a license on the basis that the funding might suddenly dry up- because a fair few clubs around the league are in the exact same position.

Which is why there needs to be something in place to mitigate it. The owners need to be willing to commit to investing the money, based on the budget they've submitted, for the whole season. This literally happens every year, there has to be something done to mitigate it.

[pineapple stu]

Is it the FAI's fault that Limerick are overspending?
From my point of view, first up is obviously that Limerick are overspending, as you say.

But I would certainly blame the FAI for creating an environment in which an LoI team is increasingly unsustainable, by heaping extra costs on them, and providing no real income in return.

The full underage structure is a good idea, but paltry prize money, no TV money, and large league entry fees are absolutely the FAI's fault. The FAI are running the league and have the power to make a lot more money flow around it, but steadfastly refuse to do so. I don't see the harm in blaming them for the bigger picture.

[David BOHie]

edit: @micls

They signed Conor Clifford a month ago? Is that the FAI's fault too?

It's fundamentally Limerick's problem that they overspend. If the FAI approve the budgets then that's fine. The FAI should look at their licensing system too to ensure prudence but I imagine the FAI don't have the resources to audit every detail of every club's accounts so once they look any way decent they're approved.

What's up with Limerick's crowds? Did they never really develop in the city or have they dwindled? Not many there last night.

[sullanefc]

Which is why there needs to be something in place to mitigate it. The owners need to be willing to commit to investing the money, based on the budget they've submitted, for the whole season. This literally happens every year, there has to be something done to mitigate it.

I've said it before but there needs to be some sort of fund in place that clubs contribute to in order that wages can be paid when they hit a lean spell. Force clubs to set up rainy day funds.

On Limerick, I hope they can see out the season and survive in the premier. Its a convenient away trip for city fans and it's an enjoyable away trip with the friendliest and most welcoming of stewards.

Any fans group or coop model that are in a position to take over?

[David BOHie]

From my point of view, first up is obviously that Limerick are overspending, as you say.

But I would certainly blame the FAI for creating an environment in which an LoI team is increasingly unsustainable, by heaping extra costs on them, and providing no real income in return.

The full underage structure is a good idea, but paltry prize money, no TV money, and large league entry fees are absolutely the FAI's fault. The FAI are running the league and have the power to make a lot more money flow around it, but steadfastly refuse to do so. I don't see the harm in blaming them for the bigger picture.

100% I agree with you. The FAI need to do a lot more as you say and you could go even further. The congestion of fixtures, the 19s etc is a good idea but people have been saying it for years, fines for fans trying to make a bit of atmosphere etc.

But this is a case of Limerick overspending. I like Limerick, the city needs a big club but Barry Maguire, Conor Clifford, Eoin Wearen, Danny Kearns etc could not come cheap and they were not getting the crowds to justify it I imagine

[pineapple stu]

Agree signing players last month is inexcusable by the way.

[David BOHie]

Did I hear something about fans staying away from games while a certain someone owns the club?

[Lim till i die]

I'm not getting into the nitty gritty because Limerick but just on the crowds.

They're probably gone down by two thirds since last season. Even the bohs fan up there if he was at our first game against them this year there was three times the crowd there.

The reasons are pretty obvious and some of them can't be gone into for legal reasons.

[David BOHie]

I'm not getting into the nitty gritty because Limerick but just on the crowds.

They're probably gone down by two thirds since last season. Even the bohs fan up there if he was at our first game against them this year there was three times the crowd there.

The reasons are pretty obvious and some of them can't be gone into for legal reasons.

Understood.

Hopefully a system of fan ownership can save the club. It's worked for Cork, beginning to work for Galway and probably what saved Bohs through our tough times.

[NeverFeltBetter]

I posted this in a different thread if anyone wants a quick catch-up:


Brief and potentially incomplete summation (and in no particular order):

-The lack of funding for the squad.
-The hiring process for the last two managers/general situation with Neil McDonald.
-the general quality of the pitch and the ongoing lack of clarity over who is in charge of its upkeep.
-The pricing policy for tickets, which has backfired given the quality of what's on offer.
-An ongoing dispute between the "Blue Army" section of supporters and club management over a variety of issues.
-The saga of the Bruff training facility which has been "close to opening" for a while now.
-The well-noted issues that have resulted in a restriction on public comment on the club on this forum.
-A serious lack of clarity over whether the current Chairman is selling the club or not.
-Chairman's apparent greater concern for away fans at matches than home fans.
-Concerns that too much has been invested in projects outside of the first team (in two minds on that myself).
-Perceptions of, shall we say, an unhealthy closeness between certain members of the media and club management.

I'm sure others could add more.

And then the actual football side of things: the bad results, the lack of goals, the lack of gumption. When Limerick were promoted a few seasons ago the hope was that the club could push on and secure a prominent place in the League of Ireland. Instead they wobbled around mid-table for two years, were relegated in a disaster cost-cutting season, strolled a poor First Division, and spent last season in another relegation battle. The enormous strides by Waterford in this season and last are also galvinising the negative appraisal of Limerick's last few years. Crowds are down, the mood is pessimistic, the OSC stopped functioning due to a lack of volunteers. Even if the club stays up this season, I think it is fair to say that there's little expectation of progression with the current leadership.

It's a sad situation. The people in charge of the club were on a wing and a prayer this season, and it's bizarre they were happy to publicly denounce paying supporters for a bit of bad language while they were out of cash to pay players. Pat O'Sullivan has done a lot for the club, but he needs to admit his share of blame in the way things have gone. The FAI certainly deserve some flak, but not as much as some people think.

We just cannot get the crowds in the door consistently. I've lost count of the "great sporting city" op-eds puzzled as to why people won't turn up for Limerick FC when we appeared to be doing everything right, with the promotion and the return to Market's Field and being competitve in the top tier. But ultimately the bandwagon culture among the Irish sport-watching public was alive and well. When we strung a few results together, they showed up. When wer didn't, they vanished. And when they vanished, the club leadership would throw fits at the loudest fans left.

Fair play to the team that agreed to play last night. I wouldn't say a bad word about any that have already packed their bags. I hope the club can go to the end of the season, even as an amateur outfit, just to maintain the integrity of the league table. If they could stay up, it would help attract new investors maybe, but I wont shed a tear if relegation comes, either on the field or because a license if refused. We've made our bed.

Regards the query about fan ownership, there is a trust, that I am a member of myself, and while there have been some positive moves this year regards getting communication going between different groups invested in the club, it, like the club, has always struggled to get subscribers. I don't know if it is in a position to do anything for/with the club.

[sullanefc]

Regards the query about fan ownership, there is a trust, that I am a member of myself, and while there have been some positive moves this year regards getting communication going between different groups invested in the club, it, like the club, has always struggled to get subscribers. I don't know if it is in a position to do anything for/with the club.

Nothing like a crisis to galvanise support. A public recruitment drive about now might be a good idea.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Quite right. I'm just pessimistic based on our inability to get people interested in the past.

[sidewayspasser]

Must have been kind of a deja-vu for Clarke. Wasn't he part of the Sporting Fingal squad when they folded?

[placid casual]

Who's the left back and centre backs for Limerick? And are they any good?
I might know a man who's looking for someone in those positions...

[osarusan]

Who's the left back and centre backs for Limerick? And are they any good?
I might know a man who's looking for someone in those positions...worth approximately 3-400,000 each I would say.

[Ezeikial]

There seems to be some contradictory reports about the situation.

Among other claims, the Paul O'Hehir Irish Mirror article linked in the opening post says this


The entire Limerick FC squad is free to leave the crisis club after wages went unpaid, Mirror Sport can reveal.
Club officials broke the disappointing news to players immediately after last night’s 1-1 draw with Bohemians at Markets Field.

The frustrated players have not been paid since the end of April and there are no funds to pay their May wages.
Once a player goes four weeks without pay, they become a free agent under FIFA rules.

https://www.irishmirror.ie/sport/exclusive-limerick-fc-face-max-12636424

While Alan O'Brien, of the TacticsTruck website, says the follow in a series of Twitter posts



Having spent the day contacting a variety of #LimerickFC (https://twitter.com/hashtag/LimerickFC?src=hash) stakeholders here's what I know so far:It is not the club's position that players are "free to leave", nor are they yet legally free to do so -- contrary to an article published by The42 earlier.

May wages have already been lodged for some players, with the rest due to follow before the end of next week.Another meeting is planned for Monday, during which voluntary wage cuts -- and mutual terminations for some of the 7 or 8 higher earners -- will be discussed.

Without the Galtee Fuels income stream, the "budget" will now finally be cut. The largesse Pat maintained at the start of 2018 -- contrary to the repeated assertions of the Irish Mirror and others -- can no longer continue.Reality has, belatedly, set in.

Late wages, common throughout 2015, are nothing new at #LimerickFC (https://twitter.com/hashtag/LimerickFC?src=hash), which has long been run by O'Sullivan on an ad-hoc financial footing.Not one player went public with those delays back then, for what it's worth.

Finally, Pat O'Sullivan's well-being is the elephant in the room here.It's common knowledge that his family have been urging him to retire for some time now.There is a good reason for that.Anyone still snarking at his behaviour, knowing this, is absolutely disgusting.




https://twitter.com/alanob2112

[NeverFeltBetter]

I used to have a lot of time for Alan, but he's consistently reported the club line for a while now, and seems intent on instigating online scraps with journalists/reporters (Andrew Cuneen and Paul O'Hehir are the targets this time). The penultimate paragraph above, which I assume is a slightly veiled swipe at Brendan Clarke, strikes me as a pointless whinge from a man who has complained about just such behavior from others.

And the last paragraph, I don't know what POS' health is like, but I know screaming from the stands for more effort from players who haven't been paid in months isn't far off "absolutely disgusting".

[Treaty Gooner]

Ah AOB, as I’ve said before he’s the Lisa Simpson of Irish football. The answer to the question nobody asked. The man is a walking contradiction of himself and how the club allow him through the gates every second week is beyond me. Rovers did the right thing banning him.

[NeverFeltBetter]

We just cannot get the crowds in the door consistently. I've lost count of the "great sporting city" op-eds puzzled as to why people won't turn up for Limerick FC when we appeared to be doing everything right, with the promotion and the return to Market's Field and being competitve in the top tier. But ultimately the bandwagon culture among the Irish sport-watching public was alive and well. When we strung a few results together, they showed up. When wer didn't, they vanished. And when they vanished, the club leadership would throw fits at the loudest fans left.

.

As an example, no matter how dreadful the senior hurling team have been at times over the years, the great sporting city will still send thousands to see them stay in 1B for years and take early exits from the Championship, and when they take a good turn, like they are doing this year, they'll flood stadiums. 35'000 to see them draw with Cork tonight (obviously I don't know how many of them were Limerick fans, but it stands to reason a significant proportion). GAA is just set-up to be more exceptional in perceptive terms. Limerick FC would need to be on a Dundalk level to be getting 3 or 4k, and we'd still struggle with the perceived drudgery of Irish club football, like all clubs do.

[El-Pietro]

As an example, no matter how dreadful the senior hurling team have been at times over the years, the great sporting city will still send thousands to see them stay in 1B for years and take early exits from the Championship, and when they take a good turn, like they are doing this year, they'll flood stadiums. 35'000 to see them draw with Cork tonight (obviously I don't know how many of them were Limerick fans, but it stands to reason a significant proportion). GAA is just set-up to be more exceptional in perceptive terms. Limerick FC would need to be on a Dundalk level to be getting 3 or 4k, and we'd still struggle with the perceived drudgery of Irish club football, like all clubs do.
There were a lot of Limerick fans in Cork today. Very noticeable whenever they scored a point.

[EnzoScifo10]

Half time break was coming to an end when our PA guy announced he had a quick quiz. He had just got 2 corporate tickets to Ire v Usa from someone who could not go. The question (from our ex supporters club head man) was name the only LOI player in the current Ireland squad. Guy runs up and wins after giving the Graham Burke answer. Q massive boos from the Bohs end as Shane Supple runs out smiling. That's the type of football brains we have involved in our club...

[Ezeikial]

Ah AOB, as I’ve said before he’s the Lisa Simpson of Irish football. The answer to the question nobody asked. The man is a walking contradiction of himself and how the club allow him through the gates every second week is beyond me. Rovers did the right thing banning him.

There's a couple of great lines in your post, but it still does not address the fact that he is challenging what the Mirror and other publications have been saying. It seems from his most recent tweets and the Joanne Cantwell interview with Brendan Clarke on Saturday Sport (about 1:13 on the link below) that the all players are not "free to leave" but that negotiations with players aimed at reducing the budget are set to take place which could result in some agreed mutual terminations.

https://www.rte.ie/radio/utils/radioplayer/rteradioweb.html#!rii=b9_10884451_414_02-06-2018_


Should have been stronger on this: @BrenClarke1 (https://twitter.com/BrenClarke1) was wrong to go public on FridayAnd thanks to RTÉ's excellent Joanne Cantwell, I now think he knows that.JC: 'But did they say you were all "free to leave"?'BC: 'That's what I took from it, that wasn't what was meant.'
https://twitter.com/alanob2112/status/1003215809362190336







And here's the link to yesterday's Saturday Sport show, featuring Brendan's interview from around 1:10:00.Corroborates the version of events it took me hours, and countless phone calls, to discover yesterday. #LimerickFC (https://twitter.com/hashtag/LimerickFC?src=hash) #LOI (https://twitter.com/hashtag/LOI?src=hash)https://cdn.rasset.ie/manifest/audio/2018/0602/20180602_rteradio1-saturdaysport-saturdaysp_cl10884451_10887296_261_/manifest.m3u8 … (https://t.co/9bLJgUURgy)

[B]Alan O'Brien‏ @alanob2112 (https://twitter.com/alanob2112) 2h2 hours ago (https://twitter.com/alanob2112/status/1003220323884552192)More




Brendan deserves credit for retracting what he said on Friday. We all take things the wrong way at times, after all.However, this is far from the first time local media here has kicked bull**** up to the nationals. The reason for Neil McDonald's departure comes to mind. #LOI (https://twitter.com/hashtag/LOI?src=hash)




https://twitter.com/alanob2112/status/1003215809362190336

[Treaty Gooner]

Maybe you’re right, I’m not taking this incident in isolation though, there’s been years of this from him in Limerick at every level. A self appointed guru who picks fights in phoneboxes, who has insulted many established and respected people, media personnel and otherwise to make some kind of name for himself. He claims he provides a service for people who want to look deeper into every game and demands respect for doing it. But doesn’t offer any to those offering their own coverage, in fact he does the opposite.

[Lim till i die]

So big al is dancing on the head of some imaginary pin to win some imaginary internet argument he's having.

"So I'm free to leave?"

"No, absolutely not. Where did you get that idea? We merely want to negotiate to reduce the budget the results of which could be mutual termination."

"I'm not willing to negotiate on my wages"

"Well then I suppose it's mutual termination."

:bulgy:

[Treaty Gooner]

I will say that a lot of people think he’s a wind up artist, came from nowhere, nobody knew who he was, watched games on tv and reports on them like he was there etc and if it’s true then bravo, I fell for it and it’s been hilarious that I and so many others got wound up by it and I mean that.

If it’s not true then he’s just a tragic figure trying to be noticed by being condescending on Twitter. I just fear the next stop is an I Don’t Like Monday’s style breakdown.

[NeverFeltBetter]

I think if it comes down to a difference of "Players are free to leave" and "We will soon negotiate mutually agreeable terminations", then getting worked up about the difference while the club figuratively burns to the ground is a little silly. Brendan Clarke "going public" hardly strikes me as a terrible action given the circumstances (and when he said he was going to play in the next game regardless, the only player to have said so!).

And as others have stated, this isn't in isolation. Hell, even with this story, Alan seems more intent on provoking a personal argument with his choice of words, rather than correct the record.

This is a ridiculous little side show though. I'm more interested in knowing if Limerick will be able to field a team for their next game. If the players aren't being paid, then there's no guarantee that they'll make themselves available.

[bluewhitearmy]

I think if it comes down to a difference of "Players are free to leave" and "We will soon negotiate mutually agreeable terminations", then getting worked up about the difference while the club figuratively burns to the ground is a little silly. Brendan Clarke "going public" hardly strikes me as a terrible action given the circumstances (and when he said he was going to play in the next game regardless, the only player to have said so!).

And as others have stated, this isn't in isolation. Hell, even with this story, Alan seems more intent on provoking a personal argument with his choice of words, rather than correct the record.

This is a ridiculous little side show though. I'm more interested in knowing if Limerick will be able to field a team for their next game. If the players aren't being paid, then there's no guarantee that they'll make themselves available.

Players should absolutely not make themselves available unless they have been paid being honest. Why risk an injury that could kill any move you may get in the window.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Can the U-19s be called up en masse?

Edit: I mean, in terms of squad registration, etc.

[osarusan]

Players should absolutely not make themselves available unless they have been paid being honest. Why risk an injury that could kill any move you may get in the window.
Agree with this.

It's one thing to go ahead with a game when you're only told about wages a couple of hours before the game is supposed to start. It's another to make that decision a week later.

I haven't heard any news on whether the players have all been paid or not, and what was the outcome of yesterday's meeting which aimed to reach deals on either reduced terms or mutually agreed termination of contracts.

I am also not sure just how long they went unpaid, and if they are simply entitled to walk away as a result.

[NeverFeltBetter]

I believe they are missing the wages for April and May.

[osarusan]

I took from Clarke's interview that this was the first time it had happened, which would make it one month. I can't believe the players would have played all through May while still waiting on the April wages.

Are LOI players generally paid monthly, or every fortnight?

[derm]

I thought that Clarke had spoken too soon? From what I understand the wages were delayed by a week rather than not paid.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Clarke said they were missing the wages for May. As noted by others, be they journalists or would-be, this isn't the first time wages have been late, but was the first time it went hand-in-hand with an apparent financial meltdown. The Sun reports today that "most" have been paid, but the squad want guarantees about future wages.

[micls]

A wage being delayed a week is not being paid.

Clarke spoke too soon on players being free to leave.

[osarusan]

Again, the impression I got was that this was the first time they hadn't been paid (or, at least, paid within a couple of days of payday).

The bit about them being free to leave, as I interpreted it, was not a comment on the current state of their contracts based on unpaid wages. Rather, it referred to the future, and how the club is willing to just let them go in order to cut the wages for the rest of the season.

[derm]

A wage being delayed a week is not being paid.

Clarke spoke too soon on players being free to leave.

Yes, I meant that he spoke too soon about being able to leave.

But a delayed wage is just not being paid on time. It means the hassle of direct debit bills being rescheduled and accounts going into overdraft. But, most of all it means that the players are still bound by their contracts and will have to suffer the worries of not getting paid for work that they're doing now, while trying to maintain a level of professionalism.

Limerick pulled the iron out of the fire this month and look like they're aiming to do so until the transfer window opens. Once again it's a horrible situation for players.

[outspoken]

From what I could gather the club probably did say you are free to leave but like Bray last season the club will want a transfer fee for its star assests. No word on any departures from the club as yet, perhaps talks went better than expected with players?

[osarusan]

They might soldier on until the transfer window opens in July I suppose.

[Ezeikial]

I'm not sure that this Off the Ball interview makes things much clearly, but maybe clarifies the level of confusion that currently exists


Limerick Leader Sports Editor Donn O'Sullivan chatted to Off the Ball this afternoon about the ongoing wages issue at Limerick FC.
Both Limerick Leader Assistant sports editor Colm Kinsella (https://www.limerickleader.ie/audio/soccer/315707/listen-limerick-fc-manager-tommy-barrett-addresses-unpaid-wages-rumours.html) and Limerick FC contributor Andrew Cunneen (https://www.limerickleader.ie/news/sport/316547/breaking-limerick-fc-s-brendan-clarke-confirms-players-will-be-allowed-to-leave.html) have been across this story for over a week. The club are yet to issue any formal statement, despite the involvement of the PFAI.

https://www.limerickleader.ie/video/sport/317142/watch-off-the-ball-discuss-limerick-fc-wages-turmoil.html

[marinobohs]

From what I could gather the club probably did say you are free to leave but like Bray last season the club will want a transfer fee for its star assests. No word on any departures from the club as yet, perhaps talks went better than expected with players?

I suspect that when the transfer window opens Limerick will be looking to trim its wage bill (most likely be required to). No doubt they will look for fees but they wont have the strongest of bargaining positions so unless they can whip up some competition for a particular player(s) they may have to let them go.