Ground Re-Admittance in LOI

[sullanefc]

CCFC BOM, on the back of a Garda recommendation, are not allowing fans back in to Turners Cross if they leave at half time. It is suspected that the measure was recommended to stop people bringing in flares at half time where they would have been searched pre match.

Lads who like to go for a pint at HT time are annoyed all season, but also, lads bringing tired kids out to be collected at HT are not getting back in and last night it caused an adult to be separated from his kid.

Do other clubs have a HT re-admittance ban? How is it working for other clubs etc?

[Ezeikial]

lads bringing tired kids out to be collected at HT are not getting back in and last night it caused an adult to be separated from his kid.


That is brilliant

I like to nip out to feed my pet hamster at half time and am consistently annoyed that I can't do so

[redarmyfaction]

Banned in the Showgs a good few years, we used to go the pub , irate peoples at the time of it's implementation.

[pineapple stu]

I think in UCD it's generally free admission after half-time anyway, so the matter doesn't arise.

Not that there's really anywhere to go during the break.

[sullanefc]

That is brilliant

I like to nip out to feed my pet hamster at half time and am consistently annoyed that I can't do so
Your level of IQ astounds me at times. It really does. What are you, 5?
Go back to you obsession with Bradley will you. He lost 5-2 last night you know.

[Mr A]

I think in UCD it's generally free admission after half-time anyway, so the matter doesn't arise.

Not that there's really anywhere to go during the break.

I got a pint in last time I was there :)

There was a rugger ball thing on so loads of really dressed up folks and I had a Mexican wrestling mask on so looked like a psychopath and it was great.

[Nesta99]

It's not generally an issue in Oriel Park with the bars in the ground. If someone needs to leave at HT or any time during the game and want to get back in a word with a steward on the gate to explain and as long as you have the ticket stubb there hasnt been an issue in my experience. Same in Inchicore too, if there isnt a mob trying to get out to the bar we were let out to the pub at HT and back in again as long as we spoke to the same steward. All depends on number I suppose and if there has been problems in the past eg smuggling flares in at HT.

[D24Saint]

Bit shocked that this was still going on I thought it was gone years. I think it should only apply to high profile games particularly since the facilities in most grounds are so awful.

[Ezeikial]

Your level of IQ astounds me at times. It really does. What are you, 5?
Go back to you obsession with Bradley will you. He lost 5-2 last night you know.

Let me be a little more specific - I thought your illustration of the problem as being an adult and child getting separated was ridiculous, so I ridiculed it.

If the adult took a tired child out of the ground to be collected at half time, and could not get back in, then obviously he did not get separated from the child. On the other hand if he left the child to go out of the ground alone.................

[micls]

Let me be a little more specific - I thought your illustration of the problem as being an adult and child getting separated was ridiculous, so I ridiculed it.

If the adult took a tired child out of the ground to be collected at half time, and could not get back in, then obviously he did not get separated from the child. On the other hand if he left the child to go out of the ground alone.................

You misinterpreted the situation and confusing a couple of examples. In this specific example, The dad went out to collect his son and bring him into the game. They are both season ticket holders. Dad was denied entry as ticket had already been scanned. Son went in as his was valid. Dad had to wait outside.

[Ezeikial]

You misinterpreted the situation and confusing a couple of examples.

I don't think there was any misinterpretation, confusion or "a couple of examples" in what sullanefc posted - it is very different from the scenario that you have now introduced




Lads who like to go for a pint at HT time are annoyed all season, but also, lads bringing tired kids out to be collected at HT are not getting back in and last night it caused an adult to be separated from his kid.



In this specific example, The dad went out to collect his son and bring him into the game. They are both season ticket holders. Dad was denied entry as ticket had already been scanned. Son went in as his was valid. Dad had to wait outside.

That was an unfortunate situation but probably fairly naive of the parent. Whether it is before or during the match, it would be normal that the same ticket could not be used for multiple entry for fairly obvious reasons. It seems strange that he did not seek the assistance of a steward before leaving the ground

[micls]

The original post talks about the ban in general. It references people not being able to get pints, parents not being able to bring tired kids out AND it separating a parent and child last night. The ban separating them, not bringing a tired child out. It could have been clearer, but the specific example I posted is what they're referring to. It's causing a lot of outrage and it's the reason this thread was started.

A season ticket not being able to be scanned out and scanned in again is a new thing, same with normal tickets. Hence the issue. Its only been introduced this year, on Garda recommendation. The man could well have done this plenty of times before, last season, without issue.

[Ezeikial]

The original post talks about the ban in general. It references people not being able to get pints, parents not being able to bring tired kids out AND it separating a parent and child last night. The ban separating them, not bringing a tired child out.

That is not true. The original post was very specific that one of the consequences of the ban was a child and adult getting separated at half time when he took a tired child out of the ground

"lads bringing tired kids out to be collected at HT are not getting back in and last night it caused an adult to be separated from his kid."



It could have been clearer, but the specific example I posted is what they're referring to. It's causing a lot of outrage and it's the reason this thread was started.

A season ticket not being able to be scanned out and scanned in again is a new thing, same with normal tickets. Hence the issue. Its only been introduced this year, on Garda recommendation. The man could well have done this plenty of times before, last season, without issue.

Did the scenario you raised happen before the match or at half-time? . When he could not get back in, did he tell the child to come back out, or did he opt to leave him alone inside?

Do you know did the adult involved seek assistance of a match steward before leaving the ground? If the issue was raised with a match steward before the adult left the ground, it would be poor form if he could not be looked after

If there is outrage in Cork is it because of the half-time pints impediment, the endangerment or welfare of the child last night, or the possible irresponsible behaviour of the adult?

The issue of season tickets being used and then passed out to others outside for re-use is a common scam. Additionally there are obvious safety issues with a general policy that allows tickets to be used more than once.

[Yossarian]

Hence the issue. Its only been introduced this year, on Garda recommendation. The man could well have done this plenty of times before, last season, without issue.

What has this got to do with the guards though? Or am I being naive?

[micls]

That is not true. The original post was very specific that one of the consequences of the ban was a child and adult getting separated at half time when he took a tired child out of the ground

"lads bringing tired kids out to be collected at HT are not getting back in and last night it caused an adult to be separated from his kid."

?

You left out part of the sentence. The sentence is talking about the ban, the ban has caused 3 different things, which were listed. No halftime pints, parents not bringing tired kids out AND it separated a parent and child. You can continue to argue the point, but that is what the sentence meant. Yes, it could have been clearer, but that is what the intention was. You've been told that's what it meant, and that's why the thread was started, continuing to argue it is just being pedantic. It has been clarified.



Did the scenario you raised happen before the match or at half-time? . When he could not get back in, did he tell the child to come back out, or did he opt to leave him alone inside?

Do you know did the adult involved seek assistance of a match steward before leaving the ground? If the issue was raised with a match steward before the adult left the ground, it would be poor form if he could not be looked after

If there is outrage in Cork is it because of the half-time pints impediment, the endangerment or welfare of the child last night, or the possible irresponsible behaviour of the adult?

The issue of season tickets being used and then passed out to others outside for re-use is a common scam. Additionally there are obvious safety issues with a general policy that allows tickets to be used more than once.

It happened at halftime. Dad went out to get son. Son was 13 or 14 i think. Dad was refused re entry, son went in. Dad waited for him outside.

I doubt he spoke to a steward beforehand. As explained, this is a new rule. People who would have done this regularly before would not see any reason to speak to a steward now.

There's general outrage about the ban for different reasons. Most people are annoyed because they now can't have pints. Some are annoyed for the less common stuff, like picking up or dropping kids etc.

The outrage about this specific incident is the lack of common sense involved in the implementation of the new rule. They could have let him in and explained the new rule for the future. They've ****ed off 2 season ticket holders for the sake of a rule.

Scam? A season ticket holder leaving and giving someoneelse their ticket? So one person leaves and another comes in? Not much of a scam about that not sure it's a major issue.

What are the other general safety concerns?

What has this got to do with the guards though? Or am I being naive?

Gardaí put it as a recommendation in a security report to the club, supposedly to stop flares coming in at half time. That had to be passed on to insurance. Club had to comply with recommendation or insurance price would have skyrocketed.

[Ezeikial]

You left out part of the sentence. The sentence is talking about the ban, the ban has caused 3 different things, which were listed. No halftime pints, parents not bringing tired kids out AND it separated a parent and child. You can continue to argue the point, but that is what the sentence meant. Yes, it could have been clearer, but that is what the intention was. You've been told that's what it meant, and that's why the thread was started, continuing to argue it is just being pedantic. It has been clarified.


Pedantic? The full sentence is repeated below again and is very clear. Your subsequent version is also clear, if different



Lads who like to go for a pint at HT time are annoyed all season, but also, lads bringing tired kids out to be collected at HT are not getting back in and last night it caused an adult to be separated from his kid.







It happened at halftime. Dad went out to get son. Son was 13 or 14 i think. Dad was refused re entry, son went in. Dad waited for him outside.

I doubt he spoke to a steward beforehand. As explained, this is a new rule. People who would have done this regularly before would not see any reason to speak to a steward now.

There's general outrage about the ban for different reasons. Most people are annoyed because they now can't have pints. Some are annoyed for the less common stuff, like picking up or dropping kids etc.

The outrage about this specific incident is the lack of common sense involved in the implementation of the new rule. They could have let him in and explained the new rule for the future. They've ****ed off 2 season ticket holders for the sake of a rule.


Was this not introduced several months ago?

It seems unfortunate that neither of the season tickets holders appear to be aware of this ongoing controversy from social media or Cork fans forum or have copped on to this new policy since it was introduced.

They could easily have avoided the problem





Scam? A season ticket holder leaving and giving someoneelse their ticket? So one person leaves and another comes in? Not much of a scam about that not sure it's a major issue.

What are the other general safety concerns?



Just 1 person leaving with 5 season tickets for re-use has the potential to cost €1000 to the club over the season

It's a pretty common scam prior to scanning of tickets

The safety concerns are fairly obvious if the match is a sell out and there is resultant over-crowding in any part of the ground

[micls]

Pedantic? The full sentence is repeated below again and is very clear. Your subsequent version is also clear, if different






Was this not introduced several months ago?

It seems unfortunate that neither of the season tickets holders appear to be aware of this ongoing controversy from social media or Cork fans forum or have copped on to this new policy since it was introduced.

They could easily have avoided the problem



Just 1 person leaving with 5 season tickets for re-use has the potential to cost €1000 to the club over the season

It's a pretty common scam prior to scanning of tickets

The safety concerns are fairly obvious if the match is a sell out and there is resultant over-crowding in any part of the ground

You're being pedantic as you refuse to accept the explanation of the meaning of the first post as anything bar you way you initially read it. I have also reread it multiple times, and knowing the context it's clear what he meant. I have explained that context to you, but for some reason you seem to think that couldn't possibly have been what he meant and the first sentence couldnt possibly be read that way. Despite you acknowledging it wouldn't even make sense the way you read it. It's pedantic nonsense. It was an unclear sentence, which you interpreted differently than he intended. That was explained but you continue to go on about it. He was talking, as clarified, about that incident last night. You can argue it all you want, but that is what he was referring to. Let it go.

The rule was introduced at the start of the season. It is a shame it happened, its also a shame some common sense couldn't have been shown in the circumstances.

I don't know how common the scam you talk of is, but it hasn't been mentioned at any point as an issue, or as a reason for this decision.

In terms of your sell out scenario, that's maximum a hand full of games a year. I'm not sure what your overcrowding in any part of the ground relates to, as you can move freely around the ground at any point. Sometimes if a particular section is full, security will stop more people entering. Going out for half time doesn't impact this. Again, this wasn't mentioned as a reason at all.

[Ezeikial]

You're being pedantic as you refuse to accept the explanation of the meaning of the first post as anything bar you way you initially read it. I have also reread it multiple times, and knowing the context it's clear what he meant. I have explained that context to you, but for some reason you seem to think that couldn't possibly have been what he meant and the first sentence couldnt possibly be read that way. Despite you acknowledging it wouldn't even make sense the way you read it. It's pedantic nonsense. It was an unclear sentence, which you interpreted differently than he intended. That was explained but you continue to go on about it. He was talking, as clarified, about that incident last night. You can argue it all you want, but that is what he was referring to. Let it go.

The rule was introduced at the start of the season. It is a shame it happened, its also a shame some common sense couldn't have been shown in the circumstances.

I don't know how common the scam you talk of is, but it hasn't been mentioned at any point as an issue, or as a reason for this decision.

In terms of your sell out scenario, that's maximum a hand full of games a year. I'm not sure what your overcrowding in any part of the ground relates to, as you can move freely around the ground at any point. Sometimes if a particular section is full, security will stop more people entering. Going out for half time doesn't impact this. Again, this wasn't mentioned as a reason at all.

There is a rich irony in your continued claims of pedantry - while you continue to insist that your interpretation of what he intended to say should be accepted over what we actually said. You have had the hard neck to say that I had confused " a couple of examples" and left out some of his post implying a deliberate attempt to misrepresent him. Untrue or disingenuous by you

If you don't see any issues with stadium overcrowding on the basis that it only happens for a handful of games I see no point in saying any more to you on this

[micls]

There is no issue with stadium overcrowding, it has never happened to my knowledge, or never been highlighted as an issue. I'm still not sure what your concerns around it are, but they certainly haven't been raised by anyone involved in match nights at Turners Cross. It was also not given as the reason for this ban. You're literally the only person to mention it. You simply seem to be making stuff up as issues for some reason. Not saying any more sounds like a good plan, as you're ignoring the actual reason for the ban, and the understandable frustration the incident last night caused, to argue about phrasing and imaginary safety issues.

[sullanefc]

Ezeikal, you are being a pedant. Micls knows the context as she is on ccfcforum where it has been discussed at length for a while now. My phrasing has confused you and you won't accept any other version other than your own interpretation. So I refer you to post #5 in this thread.

Your scamming/crowd congestion arguments shows you know nothing of Turners Cross and how it operates on a match night. Now toddle off and stop hijacking another thread with your pointless arguing.

I started this thread to see if other clubs had similar restrictions as the question was asked on ccfcforum. Can we get back to that please.

From what ive read so far, Clubs with bars and sensible stewarding have no issues. Two items that are lacking in TX at the moment. As good and all as it is.

[sbgawa]

I've arrived late due to work to a couple of rovers home matches one just on half time and 1 just aftwr and just walked in through one of the gates. Had my season ticket in my pocket but wasn't asked for it. Don't know if there is a policy or was it just two individual relaxed stewards.

[Ezeikial]

There is no issue with stadium overcrowding, it has never happened to my knowledge, or never been highlighted as an issue. I'm still not sure what your concerns around it are, but they certainly haven't been raised by anyone involved in match nights at Turners Cross.


Wow.

No one has been hurt before so therefore any potential stadium overcrowding is not an issue.

I sincerely hope that the people involved in match nights and responsible for health and safety at Turners Cross do not adopt that attitude


It was also not given as the reason for this ban. You're literally the only person to mention it. You simply seem to be making stuff up as issues for some reason. Not saying any more sounds like a good plan, as you're ignoring the actual reason for the ban, and the understandable frustration the incident last night caused, to argue about phrasing and imaginary safety issues.

I don't know what the reasons are for the ban that your club have imposed, but responded to your (rather naive) question about the safety issues around allowing the same entry ticket to be used multiple times.

[micls]

Well the not responding didn't last long.

Stadium overcrowding isn't an issue because stadium overcrowding isn't an issue. Even on the incredible off chance that your scam scenario happened and a handful of extra people got in, theres literally room for a 1000 extra people, seated, in the stadium than our allowable capacity. I'm sure the few imaginary extra people will manage OK in the event of an emergency exit needed.

I won't be concerned about your imaginary safety issues that have never been highlighted as an issue and were not part of the decision making process. Feel free to be horrified by our lack of concern about them.

[Ezeikial]

Well the not responding didn't last long.

Stadium overcrowding isn't an issue because stadium overcrowding isn't an issue. Even on the incredible off chance that your scam scenario happened and a handful of extra people got in, theres literally room for a 1000 extra people, seated, in the stadium than our allowable capacity. I'm sure the few imaginary extra people will manage OK in the event of an emergency exit needed.

I won't be concerned about your imaginary safety issues that have never been highlighted as an issue and were not part of the decision making process. Feel free to be horrified by our lack of concern about them.

I doubt your attitude to safety or ignorance on ticket entry scams is mirrored by those responsible for safe-holding certification or other stadium health and safety issues at Turners Cross - so little need for concern

Scanning of tickets and preventing multiple entry on the same ticket is a fairly basic safety and security concept in stadia worldwide and more so since Hillsborough and other stadium disasters.

[outspoken]

Not an issue in Longford often needed to go out to the car at HT to get a jacket etc. although I can see why clubs don’t allow it but in the case at cork last night a lack of common sense could end up costing them a loyal fan

[HarpoJoyce]

I got a pint in last time I was there :)

There was a rugger ball thing on so loads of really dressed up folks and I had a Mexican wrestling mask on so looked like a psychopath and it was great.

Spice Bags!!!

At the UCD Bowl there are regular fans that leave at HT and return on 55' with spice bags from a convenient take away.

I'm glad you sourced refreshments on your last visit to UCD Bowl. Was the rugger reference an in-joke on this messageboard?

[Charlie Darwin]

I had assumed all the bigger grounds didn't allow re-admittance. You can't really be dealing with dozens or more leaving and coming back a few minutes later and checking tickets all over again, etc. Can understand why the likes of UCD just wouldn't bother.

[Charlie Darwin]

At the UCD Bowl there are regular fans that leave at HT and return on 55' with spice bags from a convenient take away.
If there's that many of them they should really pay the €2 delivery and save the hassle of missing ten minutes.

[HarpoJoyce]

If there's that many of them they should really pay the €2 delivery and save the hassle of missing ten minutes.

The delivery service may be charged entry. Or food storage bag(s) searched risking other food deliveries to cool down.
These are challenges other clubs don't appear to have otherwise they would have been mentioned by now.

[Nesta99]

I had assumed all the bigger grounds didn't allow re-admittance. You can't really be dealing with dozens or more leaving and coming back a few minutes later and checking tickets all over again, etc. Can understand why the likes of UCD just wouldn't bother.

With the smoking ban The Aviva allows people leave and re-enter. I have seen similar arrangements in England and Spain. Now it isnt leaving past the security cordon to need searching all over again but if a parent wanted to a child picked up the child could be watched going through the security in to the care of another adult and then head back to their seat..

[micls]

I had assumed all the bigger grounds didn't allow re-admittance. You can't really be dealing with dozens or more leaving and coming back a few minutes later and checking tickets all over again, etc. Can understand why the likes of UCD just wouldn't bother.

Last season, I'd say there were maybe 50/60 people that would head out at half time, for drinks, or food. Never seemed an issue, ticket scanners were still there anyway. The club never saw it as a problem.


I doubt your attitude to safety or ignorance on ticket entry scams is mirrored by those responsible for safe-holding certification or other stadium health and safety issues at Turners Cross - so little need for concern

Scanning of tickets and preventing multiple entry on the same ticket is a fairly basic safety and security concept in stadia worldwide and more so since Hillsborough and other stadium disasters.

Right. That's why the rule was only implemented this season and was never an issue previously?

[Ezeikial]

I doubt your attitude to safety or ignorance on ticket entry scams is mirrored by those responsible for safe-holding certification or other stadium health and safety issues at Turners Cross - so little need for concern

Scanning of tickets and preventing multiple entry on the same ticket is a fairly basic safety and security concept in stadia worldwide and more so since Hillsborough and other stadium disasters.

Right. That's why the rule was only implemented this season and was never an issue previously?

You are getting beyond the point of ridiculous - I have repeatedly told you that I have no idea why your club introduced this rule, but have responded to your questions on general stadium safety issues and security scams. Maybe you missed the post:




I don't know what the reasons are for the ban that your club have imposed, but responded to your (rather naive) question about the safety issues around allowing the same entry ticket to be used multiple times.

[redarmyfaction]

Maybe it's a Dundalk ting but Ezeikial seems to have feuds going on than the INLA IPLO had in their history.

[ToberonaTornado]

Maybe it's a Dundalk ting but Ezeikial seems to have feuds going on than the INLA IPLO had in their history.

Why would it be a DUNDALK thing? Lazy stereotyping on show right there:rolleyes:

(PS:want to buy any red/green?)

[Yossarian]

Maybe it's a Dundalk ting but Ezeikial seems to have feuds going on than the INLA IPLO had in their history.

Well then in true INLA fashion I would expect him to have a bitterly divisive row with himself very soon!

[micls]

You are getting beyond the point of ridiculous - I have repeatedly told you that I have no idea why your club introduced this rule, but have responded to your questions on general stadium safety issues and security scams. Maybe you missed the post:

Yes, I've read your continuous posts about potential safety issues which have never happened, were not a concern to the club and weren't part of the decision making process, despite you claiming you were going to stop taking about it.

Thanks.

[redarmyfaction]

Well then in true INLA fashion I would expect him to have a bitterly divisive row with himself very soon!

I believe the last standing member of the IPLO(Marxist-Leninist) beat himself to death with a hammer in punishment beating gone wrong, so a big shout out to Zeke and be careful brother.

[Ezeikial]

https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/b/child-s-happy-hammer-237765.jpg

[Ezeikial]

https://izquotes.com/quotes-pictures/quote-there-are-some-people-as-obtuse-in-recognizing-an-argument-as-they-are-in-appreciating-wit-you-douglas-jerrold-364765.jpg

[corkery]

It's a ridiculous rule. It was never a problem before. The board of management didn't want to bring this in. It was the Gardai that forced it. They have tried to get the decision overturned.

[brendy_éire]

I don't think you're officially allowed to in the Brandywell, but if you ask nicely, it's usually not an issue.
I presumed it would be the same for most grounds. Sligo let people out to grab an inhaler. Maybe it'd be different for pints.

[colonelwest]

Jaysis Ezekial calm down ffs :D

The t's & c's of all tickets pretty much whether it be for a football match or a gig etc include a no re-admittance if you leave line. Reason being, what's to stop you going out with 5/10/20 tickets already scanned and giving them to people outside so they can chance their arm and try and get in for free basically.

At our level a bit of cop on and common sense applies once you say something to a steward etc they'll usually always have no problem with letting you back in if you say it to them but at Ireland games, gigs in the Point, Premier League games etc it's enforced way more strictly, albeit if you say it to a steward and they've a bit of common sense they may well let you out and back in, some of them are right little jobsworths though.

As was mentioned at Ireland games you can get out for a cig but that's at 2 or 3 designated exits to the "smoking areas" where you get a stamp like a nightclub and down the exit to an area that only has access to it from the stadium doors with stewards at the door checking the stamps. That's probably the only bit of cop on that has been applied by the FAI in years. You can't get out past the gate at section O/P for example at Landsdowne if you go down for a smoke during the game.

[Ezeikial]

Jaysis Ezekial calm down ffs .

Thanks. I'm calm.

Although when someone is excited, I've found the least effective way to calm them down is to say "calm down ffs"

[micls]

Jaysis Ezekial calm down ffs :D

The t's & c's of all tickets pretty much whether it be for a football match or a gig etc include a no re-admittance if you leave line. Reason being, what's to stop you going out with 5/10/20 tickets already scanned and giving them to people outside so they can chance their arm and try and get in for free basically.



this can't happen. When readmittance was allowed, tickets were scanned on the way in and scanned on the way out. If someone walked out with 10 tickets, they would have to get them all scanned on the way out or they'd show up as in the ground when they tried to re use them.

[Nesta99]

When it was a case of just showing a season ticket to gain admitance there were occasions when they got passed out to be used by someone else. The disable toilet just inside the player/officials entrance was the place used to pass out tickets as it was the only ground level window that opened to the outside of the ground. But it was more at the time when some were scrambling under the Hiney Park gate too and building rubble stacked outside the perimeter wall at spots to climb in to the ground:rolleyes: The YDC put a stop to most of that. Chancers also tried the free under 12's season tickets by flashing them at the turnstiles hoping they wouldnt be scrutinised. There were a good few confiscated and that incentive was scrapped. Now that all tickets are scanned they should look to reinstate that scheme! There should still be some common sense and pragmatism shown by stewards/clubs. Surely explaining to a steward the reason for wanting to leave the ground for a moment as in the example given above, to safely allow a child to be collected, and then reenter the ground should be ok. If it was happening enmasse and obviously an excuse to get to the pub then wouldnt it be obvious enough!?

[dahamsta]

I'm binning this as it's mostly just a pathetic slap fight between two people. Feel free to start a new one and keep it factual and on-topic.

Ezeikial in particular, you're pushing your luck on Foot.ie. Don't say you weren't warned.