View Full Version : LoI in Europe 2018
pineapple stu
14/05/2018, 9:23 PM
Too early?
Maybe not - Europe starts earlier than ever this year, with an extra qualifying round. The preliminary round draws are on 12th June - Irish teams won't be involved. The first games will be on 26th June - just as the group stage of the World Cup is coming to a close.
First important date for Irish teams is 19th June - that's the draw for all four. Games will take place on 10-12 July and 17-19 July.
Cork will be unseeded - though TNS of Wales will be seeded. There's the team to get obviously. But even if Cork lose their first round, they still drop into the second round of the Europa League.
Derry and Rovers will be unseeded in the Europa League first round, but Dundalk will be seeded (and probably for the second round too, if they get there). A mix of seeded teams available - Nomme Kalju of Estonia, Rangers of Scotland, Fola Esch of Luxembourg, Partizan Belgrade of Serbia.
In the UEFA Youth League, Bohs need five teams to both qualify for the Champions League proper and, of their own accord, the UEFA Youth League. Two have done this already - Barcelona (UEFA Youth League champions) and Atlético Madrid (Spanish underage champions), so they now need three more. One should be Germany (three of the four teams in the semis are in the CL proper). So a good start so far, but with fewer countries qualifying for the CL this year, it'll be that bit harder for Irish clubs to get in. The draw for that won't be until August.
Success is maybe one team getting through two rounds, two other teams getting through one round? It'll be hard for Cork to match Dundalk's achievement last year with fewer teams getting to the play-off round, and so harder opposition earlier on. And if they win one round in the CL and lose the second round, they drop into the third qualifying round of the EL, not the final qualifying round as Rovers did in 2011.
bennocelt
14/05/2018, 10:39 PM
Never too early
Here is a list of possible opponents
https://onedrive.live.com/view.aspx?resid=FB41E3B5AA1A44FE!367&ithint=file%2cxlsx&app=Excel&authkey=!AGObYELjIjsHbMI
For Cork it would be great to get TNS or Futboll Klub Kukësi from Albania otherwise it looks tough. Droping down to the Europa they do have a real chance to get through a few rounds.
Dundalk will be seeded for two rounds (if they get through the first rd) and also have a real good chance of progressing far this year.
patrickccfc
14/05/2018, 11:05 PM
It would be great to get through one round in the champions league at least. But the list of potential opponents looks very tough so we would need a bit of luck there, TNS or the Albanian's would be the preference. As long as we don't draw Celtic so RTE can't report it as the "dream draw"
nigel-harps1954
14/05/2018, 11:30 PM
It would be a minor miracle if anyone manages to get anywhere beyond a round 3 qualifier this year.
pineapple stu
15/05/2018, 6:41 AM
Would be wary of the Albanians; Skanderbeu have reached the EL groups twice in the last three years for example.
Probably one of the more winnable ties there alright, but still tough. (I see actually that Kukesi are only in the CL because Skenderbeu, who won the league by ten points, are now banned from Europe for ten years for match fixing)
Pablo Escobar
15/05/2018, 8:18 AM
Our league performances aren't inspiring confidence, but if you're not conceding there's always a chance.
I don't think Malmo (given their league position and our history against Swedish clubs) would hold major fears. We'd be underdogs, but there'd be a reasonable chance. Similarly with HJK.
Never too early for a European thread. I know I kicked off the Dundalk Talk one in November!
Corks coefficient is a big problem. Being seeded in qr1 of the champions league was always going to require a half decent rating but it's unfortunate that they won't be seeded in the 'champions league dropouts' path in the EL even if they lose the first round. Crusaders would be seeded in that round with a few other beatable sides- Valletta Vikingur Dudelange. City will have a great chance if they can draw TNS or Kukesi in the CL. I wonder if the CL draw will be regionalised as in the last few years? That could see Cork grouped with Malmo TNS Celtic HJK Rosenborg Polish champions.
Dundalk have to be aiming to win two rounds. The others are dependent on a good draw.
El-Pietro
15/05/2018, 10:41 AM
Never too early for a European thread. I know I kicked off the Dundalk Talk one in November!
Corks coefficient is a big problem. Being seeded in qr1 of the champions league was always going to require a half decent rating but it's unfortunate that they won't be seeded in the 'champions league dropouts' path in the EL even if they lose the first round. Crusaders would be seeded in that round with a few other beatable sides- Valletta Vikingur Dudelange. City will have a great chance if they can draw TNS or Kukesi in the CL. I wonder if the CL draw will be regionalised as in the last few years? That could see Cork grouped with Malmo TNS Celtic HJK Rosenborg Polish champions.
Dundalk have to be aiming to win two rounds. The others are dependent on a good draw.
Coefficient isn't going to matter in the Europa League. They are going to seed teams based on what round they enter. So for example teams who drop out and into the EL QR3 will be seeded against teams who won in EL QR2. I'm not sure how it will work in QR2 but it sounds like they are going to seed 3 teams against the teams who enter from QR0 (the 3 teams who lose the play in tournament) and have an open draw for the remainder.
As for regionalising its looking like there will only be 4 or 5 Seeded Northern sides vs 8 unseeded Northern sides so our chances of getting a Kazahk or similar side increases.
seand
15/05/2018, 11:26 AM
Yes, If Cork lose in the first round it looks like they'll have a 3/19 chance of drawing a preliminary round loser otherwise open draw. Ihhaven't been paying attention to the champions league route- CL is so 2017.
brendy_éire
15/05/2018, 12:11 PM
Any excuse to fire up Bert Kassies's excellent, and very geeky, site
CL seeding: http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/seedcl2018.html
EL seeding: http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/seedel2018.html
In terms of the EL, for the unseeded Derry and Shamrock Rovers, Fola Esch of Luxembourg stand out as one you'd be happy with. Some nightmare draws are the likes of the Danish and Polish sides.
For Dundalk, being seeded, you'd imagine a handy wee 60km jaunt up to road to Mourneview Park would be nice.
dundalkfc10
15/05/2018, 12:19 PM
Any excuse to fire up Bert Kassies's excellent, and very geeky, site
CL seeding: http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/seedcl2018.html
EL seeding: http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/seedel2018.html
In terms of the EL, for the unseeded Derry and Shamrock Rovers, Fola Esch of Luxembourg stand out as one you'd be happy with. Some nightmare draws are the likes of the Danish and Polish sides.
For Dundalk, being seeded, you'd imagine a handy wee 60km jaunt up to road to Mourneview Park would be nice.
Do you not remember the security when we played Linfield and Glentoran in Setanta Cup.
We were only allowed travel on offical club buses and had to be met by police to take us into and out of the areas.
Id imagine Glenavon would be the same, No thanks to that draw
bennocelt
15/05/2018, 12:32 PM
Would be wary of the Albanians; Skanderbeu have reached the EL groups twice in the last three years for example.
Probably one of the more winnable ties there alright, but still tough. (I see actually that Kukesi are only in the CL because Skenderbeu, who won the league by ten points, are now banned from Europe for ten years for match fixing)
Lucky Sligo isnt in it this year then:o
nigel-harps1954
15/05/2018, 2:22 PM
Do you not remember the security when we played Linfield and Glentoran in Setanta Cup.
We were only allowed travel on offical club buses and had to be met by police to take us into and out of the areas.
Id imagine Glenavon would be the same, No thanks to that draw
With all due respect, I'm sure the concerns of the traveling fans would come second to that of a genuine chance to progress and get another €200k in the bank.
dundalkfc10
15/05/2018, 3:50 PM
With all due respect, I'm sure the concerns of the traveling fans would come second to that of a genuine chance to progress and get another €200k in the bank.
After the Glentoran game in 2011, Dundalks team, press officers etc had to get a PSNI escort out of Belfast as there was a large Mob waiting outside the Oval.
Im sure the concerns of fans/players/club rep's safety will be high on the list!
CorribsideSteve
15/05/2018, 4:15 PM
I'd fancy Dundalk to do well enough to at least get through two rounds, and who knows after that with a bit of luck. I think they could and should have beaten Rosenborg last year. Cork are capable of getting through a round, but if they like they did against the Cypriots last year then they won't go far. Derry are in a much better place than they were 12 months ago, (what feels like) a new stadium, the shock of McBride passing beginning to wear off, and might be happier and more focused to do well this year. I think they would have lost to someone like Midtjylland anyway but not 10-2 on agg if in a better mental space. Rovers are all capable of getting through a round, but I fear a defensive / GK howler will be their downfall. The clubs are at a stage now when the fatigue after the hour mark doesn't happen like it did back in the 90's, the 10-0 aggregate beatings are also mostly a distant memory, and technical proficiency is always improving as is tactical awareness for the most part. My favorite time of year in the LOI Calendar, where I want all clubs to do well, despite the usually inevitable disappointment and the attempts to manage expectations.
Yossarian
15/05/2018, 4:38 PM
With all due respect, I'm sure the concerns of the traveling fans would come second to that of a genuine chance to progress and get another €200k in the bank.
I agree. While there would be a bit of extra security, the chance of a relatively easy game in the first round, which is closer than a lot of our away games, would be ideal.
, the 10-0 aggregate beatings are also mostly a distant memory, .
Ah jaysis. Someone always has to keep bringing that up. Can we not all just agree to never mention it again ? The memory still gives me palpitations. Nurse, my medicine, quickly!!!
CorribsideSteve
15/05/2018, 6:57 PM
Sorry about that! That time was just a totally amateur set up, for all teams. Didn't intend to single Pats out.
brendy_éire
16/05/2018, 8:29 AM
Do you not remember the security when we played Linfield and Glentoran in Setanta Cup....Id imagine Glenavon would be the same, No thanks to that draw
Setanta was different, and massively hyped up. EL against Glenavon is a different story. Security will be similar to what they do for when Cliftonville visit, which isn't that big a deal.
Cork played Linfield a couple of years ago, that went well, IIRC.
As pointed out, it's a winnable tie, and cheap. Look at the cost of a bus to drive 50 minutes up the road, with a big away support, and you'll be back in Dundalk that evening. Now look at the cost of a charter flight to Finland or Lithuania, bus on the other side, hotels, food, etc., with a handful of fans and getting home knackered sometime on Friday. No contest.
pineapple stu
10/06/2018, 3:07 PM
Inter win the underage Italian league, so that's 2 of the 5 teams Bohs need to qualify for the CL group stages and win their underage league.
The other 3 will have to come from Dynamo Kyiv, Benfica, PSV, Dinamo Zagreb, Midtylland, Red Star Belgrade, Astana, Sheriff Tiraspol and HJK. So definitely some probables there, but overall about 50/50 I'd say
Buller
12/06/2018, 10:44 AM
https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2018/0605/968424-cork-city-to-receive-800-000-just-for-entering-europe/
In case anyone missed this, Uefa announced an increase in prize money this year. (should offset the fact it is now more difficult to reach group stages)
Cork City will earn €800,000 as a baseline. (up from about €480,000?)
Europa league qualifiers will get more modest increases per round.
1st Round - €215,000 --> €240,000
2nd Round - €230,000 --> €260,000
3rd Round - €240,000 --> €280,000
Play-offs - ?
With Dundalk being seeded for the first 2 rounds, I'd say they're in a good position to earn €780,000 before they come up against a big side.
Dundalk are indeed seeded for round 1, and round 2 if we get there, would be surprised if we don’t. The fun will start in round 3 if we get that far, as being seeded means avoiding likes of Burnley, Besiktas, Seville, Bordeaux, Sparta Prague and so many more top top teams, but we would be unseeded if we got to round 3 and could draw anyone. I`d say highly unlikely we could go any further, as it would mean beating a much better side than BATE this time.
Round 2 could be tricky enough mind, plenty of tough sides on the unseeded side. Earning almost 800k for playing in 3 rounds is a decent pick up though, but not sure you actually make anything on the gate with these games, the home leg usually covers the away expenses, plus there will be additional expenses for renting Tallaght and all the items that go with further round games.
Hopefully all 4 clubs will get favourable draws next week.
New format for City too. Guaranteed 2 ties.
First round CL first. Win that, into 2nd round CL. Whenever we lose in the CL, we drop into the next round of the EL (Champions path) meaning we can only play other beaten Champions. So we won't ever be in the same draws as Dundalk, Rovers, Derry.
Win 1 tie at any point and we're guaranteed 3rd round EL, which would bring us over the million mark for prize money.
El-Pietro
13/06/2018, 4:30 PM
New format for City too. Guaranteed 2 ties.
First round CL first. Win that, into 2nd round CL. Whenever we lose in the CL, we drop into the next round of the EL (Champions path) meaning we can only play other beaten Champions. So we won't ever be in the same draws as Dundalk, Rovers, Derry.
Win 1 tie at any point and we're guaranteed 3rd round EL, which would bring us over the million mark for prize money.
We would also be seeded at that point as the Champions Path Seeding is based on when you enter rather than coefficient. If we enter in the second round (i.e. lose our first Champions League tie) we will most likely neither be seeded or unseeded as there will only be three seeds and three non seeds with the other 12 teams being in an open draw against each other. And there is also the possibility that we get a bye past the second round of the EL as there are 19 teams in that draw.
New format for City too. Guaranteed 2 ties.
First round CL first. Win that, into 2nd round CL. Whenever we lose in the CL, we drop into the next round of the EL (Champions path) meaning we can only play other beaten Champions. So we won't ever be in the same draws as Dundalk, Rovers, Derry.
Win 1 tie at any point and we're guaranteed 3rd round EL, which would bring us over the million mark for prize money.
What round can Cork NOT use TC for Europe this season? pending you progress a good few rounds, for example can it used for EL play off round if you get that far?
The other thing to consider is both Dundalk and Cork might get stretched a fair bit in terms of their title hopes if both play through extended rounds. On that further, I`d still consider the 2016 title win as the best of 3 we won given we were still playing in Europe in early Dec that year.
No, we couldn't use it for the playoff afaik
El-Pietro
15/06/2018, 8:47 AM
What round can Cork NOT use TC for Europe this season? pending you progress a good few rounds, for example can it used for EL play off round if you get that far?
The other thing to consider is both Dundalk and Cork might get stretched a fair bit in terms of their title hopes if both play through extended rounds. On that further, I`d still consider the 2016 title win as the best of 3 we won given we were still playing in Europe in early Dec that year.
Typically we've been told we're good up until the third round, for the Playoff round we need somewhere else. I think technically Turners Cross doesn't meet requirements (no parking etc) for the early rounds either but UEFA have let us off with it.
That’s a pity it couldn’t be used if you made the play offs, the car parking is a big thing I know, but you can’t be too far off the capacity cut off, plus you have the newly added wheelchair and helpers section installed.
I think Oriel Park can still only be used up to the 2nd round, which should mean an additional game to host this season as we have been joining in round 2 in previous years. 3,200 capacity limit. Its actually one of the few times the old place looks almost ok as everyone is sitting including home fans in the away end. Be great to see something new built in the ground for next season in Europe, even one new stand behind one of the goals would do wonders.
El-Pietro
15/06/2018, 9:18 AM
That’s a pity it couldn’t be used if you made the play offs, the car parking is a big thing I know, but you can’t be too far off the capacity cut off, plus you have the newly added wheelchair and helpers section installed.
I think Oriel Park can still only be used up to the 2nd round, which should mean an additional game to host this season as we have been joining in round 2 in previous years. 3,200 capacity limit. Its actually one of the few times the old place looks almost ok as everyone is sitting including home fans in the away end. Be great to see something new built in the ground for next season in Europe, even one new stand behind one of the goals would do wonders.
Capacity is only one of a number of issues. We don't have the right media facilities, press conference facilities, camera positions, possibly our floodlights aren't good enough for tv either. If tv wasn't an issue then there aren't many reasons we couldn't play there. The real problem is Turners Cross is boxed in and its probably impossible for us to ever meet all the requirements there. So we probably need to be thinking about what we do long term, unless Pairc Ui Chaoimh is opened for us (it won't be).
sidewayspasser
15/06/2018, 9:20 AM
Typically we've been told we're good up until the third round, for the Playoff round we need somewhere else.
I guess that "somewhere else" would be Thomond unless the GAA lets us into Pairc Ui Chaoimh?
osarusan
15/06/2018, 9:30 AM
Is there a reason Musgrave Park isn't part of the discussion? Just not up to standard either?
Real ale Madrid
15/06/2018, 9:37 AM
Is there a reason Musgrave Park isn't part of the discussion? Just not up to standard either?
Only has half the seats that Turners Cross has. IRFU owned , in my opinion an ideal place to put a 10k / 15k stadium. Loads of room around it. They put a 4G pitch in there last off season which is not ideal.
El-Pietro
15/06/2018, 10:12 AM
I guess that "somewhere else" would be Thomond unless the GAA lets us into Pairc Ui Chaoimh?
Hopefully. But it might depend on the draw?
micls
15/06/2018, 10:13 AM
They can't. They'd have to have a special Congress to change the rule. No chance.
osarusan
15/06/2018, 10:48 AM
Only has half the seats that Turners Cross has.
Wow, shows how little I know about rugby, always assumed it must have 7 or 8 thousand seats.
Nesta99
15/06/2018, 4:06 PM
Only has half the seats that Turners Cross has. IRFU owned , in my opinion an ideal place to put a 10k / 15k stadium. Loads of room around it. They put a 4G pitch in there last off season which is not ideal.
Would be an improvement on the Turners Cross pitch!!
If the Derrynane side has a new stand built a lot of the criteria could, theoretically at least, be met(?), even if it meant revising the main stand if things are a bit narrow Derrynane side. St Annes stand is mainly a banked seating area that is roofed isnt it? It too then could be rebuilt to meet criteria with the possibility of understand media rooms eg. Parking in a landlocked area then is an issue but can dispensation be sought if say parking was provided off site with a shuttle bus type system in place?
I've wondered in the case of Oriel Park could agreement with the train station suffice as meeting parking criteria with the proximity to the ground if it wasnt possible to provide a car park 'attached' to the ground. None of these type of solutions are cheap or easily managed of course.
If Cork's ambition, like Dundalk, is to reach group stages of European comps relatively regularly then a major project will eventually have to happen if ambitions come to pass. The city in general could have a very good MFA ground that would be expensive to maintain without Cork City FC as tenants, Musgrave Park, Pairc Ui Chaoimh, and maybe at some point in the future a stadium of their own for Cork City FC. If Turners Cross cant be upgraded to meet the criteria of a Cat 4 stadium then any major spend on it from now on (as it serves domestically as it is) would seem a bit of a waste if long term a move is needed.
It's not possible for the Cross to be upgraded to category 4, not enough space for it to be done.
Only 2 more days to the draw!!!!
El-Pietro
17/06/2018, 10:15 PM
It's not possible for the Cross to be upgraded to category 4, not enough space for it to be done.
Only 2 more days to the draw!!!!
35 hours and 45 minutes... Not like I'm excited or anything!
patrickccfc
17/06/2018, 10:39 PM
Hopefully TNS. But of course we'll get Legia or Celtic.
sbgawa
18/06/2018, 8:34 AM
Be kinda funny if you draw Celtic as they will be playing us on The Saturday in Tallaght before your first leg against them potentially on the Wednesday.
I was expecting our match against you guys would be postponed due to you guys playing on Wednesday in CL and us on the Thursday in EL, I suppose it will depend on the draw and the travel involved.
dundalkfc10
18/06/2018, 11:15 AM
Be kinda funny if you draw Celtic as they will be playing us on The Saturday in Tallaght before your first leg against them potentially on the Wednesday.
I was expecting our match against you guys would be postponed due to you guys playing on Wednesday in CL and us on the Thursday in EL, I suppose it will depend on the draw and the travel involved.
Cork can play
Ludogorets Razgrad- Bulgaria
Leiga- Poland
Malmo- Sweden
Rosenborg- Norway
HJK0- Finland
Ezeikial
18/06/2018, 11:22 AM
Cork can play
Ludogorets Razgrad- Bulgaria
Leiga- Poland
Malmo- Sweden
Rosenborg- Norway
HJK0- Finland
Ouch!
https://twitter.com/CorkCityFC/status/1008667610609868802
osarusan
18/06/2018, 11:22 AM
Hard to see Cork getting past any of those tbh.
El-Pietro
18/06/2018, 11:27 AM
Really nasty draw. There weren't many teams we would have been close to favourites against but we missed all of those. Even of the three you'd think we have an outside chance against include Malmo (who will be out for revenge for 2004) and Rosnborg (who will be wary of us after Dundalk last year) so we don't even get the element of surprise.
sbgawa
18/06/2018, 11:31 AM
The drop into the Europa League round 2 is a great safety net though.
One bright side is If you manage to pull one off against a seeded team you take their seeding and have a decent shot at going another round in CL.
El-Pietro
18/06/2018, 11:37 AM
The drop into the Europa League round 2 is a great safety net though.
One bright side is If you manage to pull one off against a seeded team you take their seeding and have a decent shot at going another round in CL.
Ludogorets, Legia and Malmo would be seeded in the second round. Rosenborg and Helsinki would not.
brendy_éire
18/06/2018, 11:41 AM
...Even of the three you'd think we have an outside chance against include Malmo (who will be out for revenge for 2004)....
I think they'll have gotten over it since then.
Harsh draw now.
HJK would be the first choice, presumably? They're the lowest ranked, and I don't think it's out of the question that Cork could beat them. In last year's EL, they beat Connah's Quay 3-1, and lost to Shkëndija of Macedonia 4-2.
Real ale Madrid
18/06/2018, 11:56 AM
Cork can play
Thanks - nice to see.
bennocelt
18/06/2018, 11:57 AM
Id go for Ludogorets Razgrad of Bulgaria, seen them live twice as they have played here in Basel. But they are a rubbish team but extremely cynical, diving and fouling all throughout each game. Last time (two seasons ago), Basel somehow drew with them home and away when we should have easily won both games. Before that (the year or so before) we bet them easy. They are NOT a good team.
Id also got for HJK
Otherwise its a c££t of a draw for Cork
Ezeikial
18/06/2018, 12:00 PM
The Sun is quick off the mark
EUROVISION SSE Airtricity League champions Cork City avoid Scottish giants Celtic but could face the likes of Ludogorets, Legia Warsaw and Malmo in Champions League first round draw
UEFA have split the 32-team draw into three different groups meaning the Leesiders will avoid the Scottish champions
https://www.thesun.ie/sport/football/2728849/sse-airtricity-league-champions-cork-city-avoid-scottish-giants-celtic-but-could-face-the-likes-of-ludogorets-legia-warsaw-and-malmo-in-champions-league-first-round-draw/
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