View Full Version : LoI Fixtures 11 May to 15 May
brendy_éire
15/05/2018, 11:17 AM
Deserved win for Dundalk last night in Derry. Dundalk started well, Derry took about ten minutes to get going, and got a goal soon after.
From then on though, it was all Dundalk. Poor defending from the corner. If Gartland hadn't have got on the end of it, there were another couple of Dundalk players lined up for it. Some lovely play for Dundalk's second, though Gerard Doherty (who had a cracking game mostly) could have stayed on his feet longer? Third was on the counter attack, really quick play created loads of space in our half.
Chatting to a few Dundalk ones after who weren't sure, was our disallowed goal actually offside? I don't think it'd have changed the result, mind.
Can't be too annoyed at the result, but it's just disappointing that there's such a gap between ourselves and Dundalk. It was really evident tonight. Dundalk have experience, physical strength and presence, and can call on some good players on the bench. We don't, and won't have this season.
Can't see past Dundalk for the league, based on that performance. Easily the best team we've played. You'd fancy them to do alright in the EL too.
Very honest and refreshing to read coming from a home fan report.
I think the game changed after Dundalk went 1 behind, Derry obv pushed on for the second but Dundalk had to get a grip of the MF and they did just that with Shields stopping McEneff making any real impact and allowing Benson to advance freely. Dundalk missing a good few players too last night, so makes it even more imporessive.
Most I spoke to pre match said they would have taken a draw !
mcgonigle
15/05/2018, 1:52 PM
Deserved win for Dundalk last night in Derry. Dundalk started well, Derry took about ten minutes to get going, and got a goal soon after.
From then on though, it was all Dundalk. Poor defending from the corner. If Gartland hadn't have got on the end of it, there were another couple of Dundalk players lined up for it. Some lovely play for Dundalk's second, though Gerard Doherty (who had a cracking game mostly) could have stayed on his feet longer? Third was on the counter attack, really quick play created loads of space in our half.
Chatting to a few Dundalk ones after who weren't sure, was our disallowed goal actually offside? I don't think it'd have changed the result, mind.
Can't be too annoyed at the result, but it's just disappointing that there's such a gap between ourselves and Dundalk. It was really evident tonight. Dundalk have experience, physical strength and presence, and can call on some good players on the bench. We don't, and won't have this season.
Can't see past Dundalk for the league, based on that performance. Easily the best team we've played. You'd fancy them to do alright in the EL too.
Don't think Kenny Shields will appreciate your magnanimity, according to him we hacked, dived and cheated our way to victory.....
Then had a wobbler when called out on it, an entertainer to the last
https://audioboom.com/posts/6855637.mp3?modified=1526344068&source=rss&stitched=1
Ezeikial
15/05/2018, 3:28 PM
The warmth, welcome and passion of the Derry supporters always makes a trip to the Brandywell worthwhile. To see the revamped stadium was also interesting, but the prospect of two open footballing teams going for it was the big attraction in travelling last night. The 4-1 result helped make it a super journey, but make no mistake about it Derry played their part in a cracking match
Derry are a smashing team and are committed to playing attractive open football. It would be good for the league if they could keep most of this team together because they play a style of football that is a pleasure to watch as opposed to the turgid anti-football fare that some other teams inflict on spectators.
Duffy, Sadlier, and Burke are the three the stand out to me.
Of the three, Duffy is the most consistent. Not completely consistent, but then again if he adds that to his game, he would be off to England. So perhaps, a little inconsistency is better for us.
Sadlier doesn't play often enough though, Does Caulfield not trust him? It is hard to properly assess a player who spends so much time on the bench.
As for Burke, I'd love to see him in a better team.
Sadlier is certainly our most talented, and threatening player in general. He started well but had a few games where he was fairly anonymous and ended up on the bench. He doesn't do enough of the defensive side of the game for Caulfield, which is why he ends up benched a fair bit.
JC is only likely to start one of him or McNamee, as they're both quite weak defensively, and at the moment McNamee is getting the not.
I'd imagine most city fans would prefer to see Sadlier starting, and he's changed games from the bench. JC has a history of benching flair players to give them a boot up the behind, so hopefully that's what's happening here. It worked with Seani!
Real ale Madrid
15/05/2018, 3:44 PM
Derry are a smashing team and are committed to playing attractive open football. It would be good for Dundalk if other teams tickled our bellies like Derry did last night as opposed to playing in a way that might actually garner a result for their supporters
Fixed that for you there.
Ezeikial
15/05/2018, 3:53 PM
Don't think Kenny Shields will appreciate your magnanimity, according to him we hacked, dived and cheated our way to victory.....
Then had a wobbler when called out on it, an entertainer to the last
https://audioboom.com/posts/6855637.mp3?modified=1526344068&source=rss&stitched=1
Kenny Shiels is great craic, although he certainly didn't like getting called out by Gerry Malone post match - who he had a spat with him a few weeks back in Oriel Park.
GM: Are you seriously saying that Chris Shields is a cheat? I think that’s very harsh on your part
KS: I said that? I didn’t say that. Where did this guy come from? What are you telling lies for? Get him out of here – that’s a lie. That’s a lie, I did not say he was a cheat
KS was right he didn't call Chris Shields a cheat, but he strongly implied it about him and his teammates
KS: “They’re professional how they manage games. They go down and pretend to be injured, they dive, they do all the things that helps them. Like Chris Shields has three horrendous fouls and if you compare that with what Gavin Peers had two fouls in the full game at Dundalk and got sent off. But our young lads don’t know how to cheat. Like they just got 8 men around our player in Dundalk and that’s what they do – they kill out games”
He was also adamant that there was a foul with Rory Patterson being blocked off in the box for Brian Gartlands goal from a corner
Kenny sees things that others just can't see (well I couldnt see it in real time last night or the videos footage today)
https://twitter.com/SoccRepublic/status/996161870397521922
Kenny Shiels is an excellent manager, but is less than gracious in defeat. He is not a true reflection of the decency and honesty of Derry City fans
Ezeikial
15/05/2018, 3:59 PM
Fixed that for you there.
Was there something in my post that upset you?
.......because they play a style of football that is a pleasure to watch as opposed to the turgid anti-football fare that some other teams inflict on spectators.
If the cap fits....
Real ale Madrid
15/05/2018, 4:13 PM
Was there something in my post that upset you?
If the cap fits....
You're a gas man Ezeikial.
Kenny Shields is an excellent manager. *chuckles
Kenny Shiels is great craic, although he certainly didn't like getting called out by Gerry Malone post match - who he had a spat with him a few weeks back in Oriel Park.
KS was right he didn't call Chris Shields a cheat, but he strongly implied it about him and his teammates
He was also adamant that there was a foul with Rory Patterson being blocked off in the box for Brian Gartlands goal from a corner
Kenny sees things that others just can't see (well I couldnt see it in real time last night or the videos footage today)
https://twitter.com/SoccRepublic/status/996161870397521922
Kenny Shiels is an excellent manager, but is less than gracious in defeat. He is not a true reflection of the decency and honesty of Derry City fans
Shields was also adamant that there was a foul with Rory Patterson being blocked off in the box for Brian Gartlands goal from a corner
That's a common move lots of well organised teams use & particularly when using target men like Hoban for the decoy, prevent the run of the markers leaving the real target like Gartland completely free to score. This isn't blocking, it is creating confusion though. Clever move.
Sorry to say but it's time to consider a change. Not working for Lyttle who should be able to do better as I think the squad is actually probably better than what Robertson had assembled.
We don't really look like winning any games.
The Sligo public have funded one disastrous appointment after another since Heary. The club is a professional one but run by amateurs and can't be sustained under such a regime.
Nah Nah Nah Nah
15/05/2018, 9:58 PM
I’d probably think (hope) we’d be able to finish ahead of Limerick and Bray but can’t see his contract being renewed for sure.
As for tonight at least we created a few chances for a change. Now need to figure out how to take them. Always going to be tough missing so many.
Pitch in Inchicore is a great condition.
patsdad
15/05/2018, 10:05 PM
For the first time we have clear water between the top five and the bottom five. Hard to call the relegation battle but I think Shamrock Rovers probably have enough to just about keep out of it.
TonyD
15/05/2018, 10:07 PM
I’d probably think (hope) we’d be able to finish ahead of Limerick and Bray but can’t see his contract being renewed for sure.
As for tonight at least we created a few chances for a change. Now need to figure out how to take them. Always going to be tough missing so many.
Pitch in Inchicore is a great condition.
You missed an absolute sitter with about 5 minutes to go, which would have made it 1-1. Barry Murphy also pulled off a great save in the first half. Having said that I thought we were the better side overall. I'd like us to have a bit more of a cutting edge though. Impressed with Thomas Byrne for us, not a centre forward,but he did well when switched to the wing.
outspoken
16/05/2018, 4:12 AM
Sadlier isn’t getting much of a look in, not sure why he’s always been mentioned by the press and fans alike. He’s done far better than Dylan Connolly but not by so much you could see him getting a call up himself quickly or anything like that. For me the stand out player this season has been Bastian Heri
Ezeikial
16/05/2018, 8:39 AM
Sadlier isn’t getting much of a look in, not sure why he’s always been mentioned by the press and fans alike. He’s done far better than Dylan Connolly but not by so much you could see him getting a call up himself quickly or anything like that. For me the stand out player this season has been Bastian Heri
Dylan Connolly has been struggling to make an impact and is hardly the benchmark to measure anyone by -although he has two successive vastly improved performances in the past week.
Bastien Heri has certainly been impressive but Michael Duffy has been in phenomenal form. On Monday night he scored his 8th goal of the season from left wing. He is also on 9 assists. If he was the club penalty taker he be the leagues top scorer. His stats are superior to even what Daryl Horgan achieved at the club
Dylan Connolly has been struggling to make an impact and is hardly the benchmark to measure anyone by -although he has two successive vastly improved performances in the past week.
Bastien Heri has certainly been impressive but Michael Duffy has been in phenomenal form. On Monday night he scored his 8th goal of the season from left wing. He is also on 9 assists. If he was the club penalty taker he be the leagues top scorer. His stats are superior to even what Daryl Horgan achieved at the club
If he replicates it in Europe, he might be worth comparing to Horgan!
PartySaint
16/05/2018, 9:28 AM
3 wins on the bounce for Pats now, 0 goals conceded since the hammering up in Dundalk. Sligo are pretty poor but could have sneaked a draw near the end.
Derry on Friday is a big game now, should be a decent crowd at it.
Ezeikial
16/05/2018, 9:35 AM
If he replicates it in Europe, he might be worth comparing to Horgan!
I take your point about including European performances giving a more rounded player comparison, but it is hard to understand why you are suggesting that comparisons based on league performance are in some way not worthwhile. Daryl Horgan was an outstanding player for Dundalk - Michael Duffy's stats for goals and assists are significantly better at this point.
Ezeikial
16/05/2018, 11:50 AM
For the first time we have clear water between the top five and the bottom five. Hard to call the relegation battle but I think Shamrock Rovers probably have enough to just about keep out of it.
it looks like St Pats are mounting a credible European challenge as they go level on points with Derry and only 5 behind Waterford in 3rd.
As for Rovers, although they are closer to a relegation playoff spot (9 points) than they now are to the last automatic Europa League position (11 points), Bradser retains his Comical Ali type optimism:
Bradley, meanwhile, is unconcerned about being 10 points off a guaranteed spot in Europe after 17 of 36 matches, pointing to how Rovers overturned a similar deficit last year.
He said: “Remember Derry beat us here last year with not many games left and we were so many points off them?
https://www.thesun.ie/sport/football/2570021/shamrock-rovers-ace-graham-burke-could-play-twice-in-18-hours-for-club-and-country-after-international-call-up/
micls
16/05/2018, 11:57 AM
I take your point about including European performances giving a more rounded player comparison, but it is hard to understand why you are suggesting that comparisons based on league performance are in some way not worthwhile. Daryl Horgan was an outstanding player for Dundalk - Michael Duffy's stats for goals and assists are significantly better at this point.
Simply because you're not comparing like with like. Trying to compare player stats across seasons, when the relative quality of opposition, make up of the league, and quality of their own team has such a huge impact is a bit pointless. If you look at stats alone Dave Mooney was better for us than Kevin Doyle was. The comparison doesn't hold up though.
Duffys stats speak for themselves this season, but I don't think the comparison has much merit standing alone. Horgan also did it over and extended period of time, whereas Duffy is half a season in at this level. That's not to play down what he's doing, I just don't think there's much value in comparing the players.
Ezeikial
16/05/2018, 4:53 PM
If he replicates it in Europe, he might be worth comparing to Horgan!
Simply because you're not comparing like with like. Trying to compare player stats across seasons, when the relative quality of opposition, make up of the league, and quality of their own team has such a huge impact is a bit pointless. If you look at stats alone Dave Mooney was better for us than Kevin Doyle was. The comparison doesn't hold up though.
Duffys stats speak for themselves this season, but I don't think the comparison has much merit standing alone. Horgan also did it over and extended period of time, whereas Duffy is half a season in at this level. That's not to play down what he's doing, I just don't think there's much value in comparing the players.
Your argument appears flawed or even contradictory to me.
On one hand you suggest a comparison might be worthwhile if Michael Duffy replicates his current form in Europe and then completely wipe out the validity of any comparison based on differences that would not only apply in the domestic league, but are even more likely to be present - or even more pronounced - in the European competitions:
Relative quality of opposition
Make up of the competition
Quality of own team
If your logic was to be followed, all statistical comparisons between players over different seasons would be pointless
Consistency over a period of time is a valid factor to consider if the measurement was about something like how much a player contributed to clubs success - the time for that may come in the future.
Michael Duffy is in his second season at Dundalk. In his first season in 2017, he scored 8 league goals while Daryl got 5 league goals in his first season with Dundalk in 2014. (BTW Michael Duffy is credited with 11 goals for Derry that season). Daryl got 9 in his second season (2015) and 10 in his third season (2016). With only 17 games gone, Michael Duffy already has 8 goals and is on track to dwarf Daryl Horgan's (no pun intended) goal scoring stats. If assists were added in to the comparison it makes Michael Duffy's statistical record even more impressive.
When I said in the original post comparing to Horgan, I meant in overall quality, not in stats. I think over the period of a few years and Europe you can get a general sense of the level of quality of a player. Id imagine many fans would be able to rank in terms of overall quality the players than have gone to England, certainly from their own teams. I'm not talking about a statistical comparison, because the stats themselves are rarely useful for an overall comparison. So yes, I do think season to season stats comparisons are fairly pointless
As I mentioned, the Dave Mooney stat. In terms of overall quality he wouldn't make the top 5 for City fans to have moved on, and that has been borne out by his career. But in terms of stats alone, he'd top the pile.
I don't think the stats about Duffy are what is convincing, although they are impressive. I don't imagine there's too many would claim he's better than Horgan(when he left) right now. But, if he keeps it up over the season, and stands out in Europe, he might be thought of in the same terms.
Ezeikial
16/05/2018, 6:25 PM
When I said in the original post comparing to Horgan, I meant in overall quality, not in stats. I think over the period of a few years and Europe you can get a general sense of the level of quality of a player. Id imagine many fans would be able to rank in terms of overall quality the players than have gone to England, certainly from their own teams. I'm not talking about a statistical comparison, because the stats themselves are rarely useful for an overall comparison. So yes, I do think season to season stats comparisons are fairly pointless
As I mentioned, the Dave Mooney stat. In terms of overall quality he wouldn't make the top 5 for City fans to have moved on, and that has been borne out by his career. But in terms of stats alone, he'd top the pile.
I don't think the stats about Duffy are what is convincing, although they are impressive. I don't imagine there's too many would claim he's better than Horgan(when he left) right now. But, if he keeps it up over the season, and stands out in Europe, he might be thought of in the same terms.
You are on a different tangent altogether.
My original post that you responded to was about who is the standout player in the league currently. The statistical illustration on what Michael Duffy is producing currently in terms of goals and assists backs up his credentials, and the comparison with Daryl Horgan is simply a context or to bench-mark against one of the best players in the league in recent seasons. I am not claiming that one or the other is the better player, but where Michael Duffy is currently at.
I could not disagree with you more when you say that "the stats themselves are rarely useful for an overall comparison" - if a centre forward scored 20 goals and made 20 assists in one season and was replaced by another striker who scored 5 goals and made 5 assists for the same team, most people would validly compare the two. It may not tell the full story, but it is not credible to argue that it is a pointless.
I wasn't disagreeing that Duffy was the standout player this season. I think that's a fair claim. I was questioning the comparison with Horgan, in terms of overall quality.
Ezeikial
16/05/2018, 7:02 PM
I wasn't disagreeing that Duffy was the standout player this season. I think that's a fair claim. I was questioning the comparison with Horgan, in terms of overall quality.
Fair enough, if "overall quality" was what was in your mind, even if not easy to discern from your initial response:
If he replicates it in Europe, he might be worth comparing to Horgan!
Fair enough, if "overall quality" was what was in your mind, even if not easy to discern from your initial response:
Yeah, obviously I wasn't clear enough. I was referring to him replicating the 'phenomenal form', not the numbers.
sullanefc
16/05/2018, 7:24 PM
Kenny Shiels is great craic, although he certainly didn't like getting called out by Gerry Malone post match - who he had a spat with him a few weeks back in Oriel Park.
KS was right he didn't call Chris Shields a cheat, but he strongly implied it about him and his teammates
He was also adamant that there was a foul with Rory Patterson being blocked off in the box for Brian Gartlands goal from a corner
Kenny sees things that others just can't see (well I couldnt see it in real time last night or the videos footage today)
https://twitter.com/SoccRepublic/status/996161870397521922
Kenny Shiels is an excellent manager, but is less than gracious in defeat. He is not a true reflection of the decency and honesty of Derry City fans
Kenny Shiels isn't the only one to spot Dundalk's cynicism. Just because the sycophantic media don't speak about it doesn't make it not true.
D24Saint
16/05/2018, 8:00 PM
I’d probably think (hope) we’d be able to finish ahead of Limerick and Bray but can’t see his contract being renewed for sure.
As for tonight at least we created a few chances for a change. Now need to figure out how to take them. Always going to be tough missing so many.
Pitch in Inchicore is a great condition.
Yeah thought it looked in good nick myself lately, a huge help for Bucko’s style of play.
mcgonigle
16/05/2018, 9:24 PM
Kenny Shiels isn't the only one to spot Dundalk's cynicism. Just because the sycophantic media don't speak about it doesn't make it not true.
When you find yourself agreeing with Kenny Shields it's time to have yourself assessed. At least he knows he's spoofing
sullanefc
16/05/2018, 11:08 PM
When you find yourself agreeing with Kenny Shields it's time to have yourself assessed. At least he knows he's spoofing
Who????
Ezeikial
17/05/2018, 6:19 AM
When you find yourself agreeing with Kenny Shields it's time to have yourself assessed. At least he knows he's spoofing
Kenny Shiels isn't the only one to spot Dundalk's cynicism. Just because the sycophantic media don't speak about it doesn't make it not true.
There is a curious sensitivity about a perceived lack of media recognition for Cork City among some Cork fans; when this is combined with extreme pedantry and a charade of misunderstanding based on mis-spelling a name, maybe compassion is am appropriate response?
A N Mouse
17/05/2018, 10:36 PM
There is a curious sensitivity about a perceived lack of media recognition for Cork City among some Cork fans; when this is combined with extreme pedantry and a charade of misunderstanding based on mis-spelling a name, maybe compassion is am appropriate response?
Am come on now. I wouldn't say Dundalk are cynical, any more than I would Cork are ultra defensive.
The other night each of the goals was celebrated in a similar fashion, all ten outfield players made their way, some none to quickly, to the corner flag and stayed there just long enough not to annoy the ref. Even the dead rubber fourth in injury time. There was plenty of lying down, and at one point the ref was trying to call on their physio for what seemed like a minute before he entered the pitch from the sideline. But this is all professional game management.
While it's all change at Cork much more verve and attacking intent, I mean they must have a new manager such is the change since Roddy's first outing at the brandy as Derry manager. When with the game in the balance at nil-nil and about twenty five minutes on the clock Cork had break away which they took to the corner flag and tried to hold there. (They went on to win 1-0, but this was the most memorable thing about the game for me)
sullanefc
17/05/2018, 11:30 PM
But this is all professional game management.
Cynicism or game management, at least you see it. For dalk fans and the media there is a denial of its existence.
ArFella
18/05/2018, 8:45 AM
Cynicism or game management, at least you see it. For dalk fans and the media there is a denial of its existence.
Of course we see it, we absolutely love it, how dare we try to gain a competitive advantage while remaining within the rules of the game. I'm sure you love when Cork kick Dundalk up and down the field and win a game 1-0 with a massive defensive shift put in by your team, which is also an acceptable way to play footballl. So please give it a rest with cynicism s***e, yes we are good it, no more than you are better at playing defensive football and playing on the edge of the rules physically.
sullanefc
18/05/2018, 9:37 AM
Of course we see it, we absolutely love it, how dare we try to gain a competitive advantage while remaining within the rules of the game. I'm sure you love when Cork kick Dundalk up and down the field and win a game 1-0 with a massive defensive shift put in by your team, which is also an acceptable way to play footballl. So please give it a rest with cynicism s***e, yes we are good it, no more than you are better at playing defensive football and playing on the edge of the rules physically.
I'll concede the part in bold to the lillywhites.
Nesta99
18/05/2018, 10:51 AM
How cynical Dundalk have topped and been at the upper end of fair play leagues over the last number of seasons is a mystery! Referees must be totally intimidated......
Ezeikial
18/05/2018, 11:31 AM
Am come on now. I wouldn't say Dundalk are cynical, any more than I would Cork are ultra defensive.
The other night each of the goals was celebrated in a similar fashion, all ten outfield players made their way, some none to quickly, to the corner flag and stayed there just long enough not to annoy the ref. Even the dead rubber fourth in injury time. There was plenty of lying down, and at one point the ref was trying to call on their physio for what seemed like a minute before he entered the pitch from the sideline. But this is all professional game management.
While it's all change at Cork much more verve and attacking intent, I mean they must have a new manager such is the change since Roddy's first outing at the brandy as Derry manager. When with the game in the balance at nil-nil and about twenty five minutes on the clock Cork had break away which they took to the corner flag and tried to hold there. (They went on to win 1-0, but this was the most memorable thing about the game for me)
I'm baffled as to why you quoted my post with this. is this intended to be in some way related to what I said about some Cork fans being sensitive, the pedantics and charades about the spelling of Kenny Shiels' name?
How cynical Dundalk have topped and been at the upper end of fair play leagues over the last number of seasons is a mystery! Referees must be totally intimidated......
There is no question reputation and status go a long way. Teams at the top will always get away with a bit more. Teams with a bit of a reputation for being physical can be treated harshly. Happens all the time.
Ezeikial
18/05/2018, 1:12 PM
What happens when team with a reputation for being physical get to the top?
They get away with more than teams lower down the table would.
Olander
18/05/2018, 1:44 PM
Teams with a bit of a reputation for being physical can be treated harshly. Happens all the time.
Tell me you're not referencing Finn Harps there...
Charlie Darwin
18/05/2018, 4:05 PM
Of course we see it, we absolutely love it, how dare we try to gain a competitive advantage while remaining within the rules of the game. I'm sure you love when Cork kick Dundalk up and down the field and win a game 1-0 with a massive defensive shift put in by your team, which is also an acceptable way to play footballl. So please give it a rest with cynicism s***e, yes we are good it, no more than you are better at playing defensive football and playing on the edge of the rules physically.
You must be thinking of another team - Cork don't commit fouls.
Nesta99
18/05/2018, 5:31 PM
You must be thinking of another team - Cork don't commit fouls.
Dont commit fouls or tackle such is their strong sense of virtue and sportmanship! If he could JC would undoubtedly make every club league winners every season!!
CorribsideSteve
18/05/2018, 7:10 PM
Waterford 3 nil down at Home to Limerick inside 20 minutes. Bit of a surprise there, in spite of them being promoted last season. Huge result for Limerick if it ends up that way.
3 goals from city lads. Nice one!
Aborah sent off.
A N Mouse
19/05/2018, 11:58 AM
I'm baffled as to why you quoted my post with this. is this intended to be in some way related to what I said about some Cork fans being sensitive, the pedantics and charades about the spelling of Kenny Shiels' name?
Well originally it was going to be a poor quip about corkies just being defensive.
But it felt better trying to point out you're as bad as each other.
And it seems entirely appropriate to reply to your post, as you're accusing someone of deflecting through childishness or semantics, while apparently defending a post which amounts to "you're wrong and I can prove it, because you agreed with someone who often says silly things. Who I also disagree with"
Ezeikial
19/05/2018, 6:47 PM
Well originally it was going to be a poor quip about corkies just being defensive.
But it felt better trying to point out you're as bad as each other.
And it seems entirely appropriate to reply to your post, as you're accusing someone of deflecting through childishness or semantics, while apparently defending a post which amounts to "you're wrong and I can prove it, because you agreed with someone who often says silly things. Who I also disagree with"
That's way too elevated for me. I confess I have no idea what you are saying.
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