Georgia V Republic of Ireland - Saturday, 2 September 2017 - World Cup 2018 Qualifier

[mark12345]

Analysis of another incoherent Irish performance -- General O'Neill's luck is finally running out: http://bit.ly/2eyiadJ (https://t.co/hBIc3VUrJB)

While we're on the subject of O'Neill, let's not forget the two points that he gift wrapped and handed to Austria ten weeks ago at the Aviva. Those points would have come in very handy right now.
Anyway, he wasn't out on the pitch in Tiblisi tonight and although he can be blamed for playing the wrong personnel from the start (Hoolahan and McGeady should have started, with a view to bringing Daryl Horgan from the bench if need be) the lion's share of culpability must go to the players themselves. Was there not even one man who could stop and say "Lads this hoof ball is not working, let's play it on the deck and try to keep possession"?
Apparently not.
So the take away from all of this, is that we are incapable of playing football the way it was meant to be played - and it has been that way throughout this whole campaign

[mark12345]

It would be fairly typical of this Irish side to bounce back from this awful performance and result with the exact opposite on Tuesday

Ok, let's assume you're right, and to be quite honest I wouldn't put it past them to sneak a lucky winner against Serbia, but where do we go from there?
How can we eradicate this prehistoric type of performance from our game.
I would bet big money that the nucleus of the current Dundalk and Cork City sides, with a smattering of Rovers players would have put up a better performance in Georgia tonight.

[mark12345]

Quite frankly, a decent win away at Austria aside, we've not been up to much in this group. If we do not up our game significantly, I fear for us against Serbia.

Fear for us against Serbia?
What about after that?
Where is the national team headed in the long term?
Strange as it might sound but I was quite encouraged last year by the emergence of Jack Byrne in Holland.
By the sound of things he was a midfield general in the making - unfortunately he has got sidetracked a little in his career.
But based on that performance tonight, we are crying out for a midfielder to impose himself upon our game.
Liam Kelly should have played for Ireland against Georgia.
Alan Judge also has something to offer.
We need to start playing players who are comfortable on the ball, not give it away like a hot potato.

[elroy]

Dont think I have been as depressed after an Ireland performance in quite a while. That was SO poor. We were very fortunate to draw but probably had enough chances to win.


I dont have the energy to analyse that performance. However, I really feel we are in danger of throwing away an excellent position in the group (post win in Austria) and a real opportunity with this group generally - like how often are we going to get a group with no big first seed. To qualify we need two big performances now, Tuesday night and away to Wales. Either way, it looks like it will now come down to that last game and Wales will be very much alive. The question is whether we will be sufficiently placed so that a draw will do that night. We need a finish to the group similar to what we managed in the last campaign after the Scotland game with a big home win needed Tuesday night.

You look at our squad and there is plenty of premiership/good quality players. Then you look at the Georgian team passing the ball around us for fun, you look at what the North are doing with the resources they have..........dont tell me we cant play football. Tonight was shambolic - the number of passes and possession stats were pathetic.

[pineapple stu]

I don't think we were fortunate to draw. Georgia I think had two shots on target - the goal (which was a really well-worked move) and a shot from distance deflected on target by Duffy.

So partly we defended well, and partly Georgia ultimately weren't up to much going forward. So they can have no gripes about not winning.

Obviously we really didn't deserve to win. But a draw was fair.

[DeLorean]

They have their own failings of course but for 60-65 minutes they slaughtered us. Regardless of the chance count, they just looked far superior. Going on the sound logic that the team who performs better deserves to win, then they deserved to win, and we definitely deserved to lose.

[pineapple stu]

They were better for sure. Technically streets ahead of us. Even their keeper - who gifted us the goal - played better than Randolph.

But they didn't deserve to win because in the end of the day, they created very little. We had more chances than they had - McClean, Duffy, Long and McGeady all had decent chances.

[mark12345]

They were better for sure. Technically streets ahead of us. Even their keeper - who gifted us the goal - played better than Randolph.

But they didn't deserve to win because in the end of the day, they created very little. We had more chances than they had - McClean, Duffy, Long and McGeady all had decent chances.

Yeah, but think what might have happened if we actually passed the ball in 10 - 15 pass moves. How much less possession would Georgia have had. They would have had to chase shadows and tire out in the heat, like we ultimately did.
Again I ask, is there no one in the Irish team who can grab his team mates by the scruff of the neck and demand from them that they actually play the ball on the deck, like they do week in and week out for their clubs.
That was prehistoric stuff last night.
And I look at Keane and O'Neill, two players who played for a Forest team who would have dropped you like a rock if you performed as the Irish players did yesterday. Why didn't our management team step in and demand better at half time.
But then again if you have a manager who can't see the difference between an Irish team and an Irish team with Hoolahan at the controls, then what's the point.

[mark12345]

Let's up the ante for all and sundry for Tuesday night.
Everyone has to do their job.
No hoofing the ball aimlessly.
Midfielders have to show for defenders so the ball can be worked through the middle and front men have to either go wide or in behind their markers.
And the effin manager has to put the right people on the pitch from the off (I really don't know what's got into O'Neill - he used to be so tuned in).
Anyway, it's play Hoolahan from the off or give up the job and go home.

[mark12345]

They were better for sure. Technically streets ahead of us. Even their keeper - who gifted us the goal - played better than Randolph.

But they didn't deserve to win because in the end of the day, they created very little. We had more chances than they had - McClean, Duffy, Long and McGeady all had decent chances.

Correct. All of the above mentioned players had a chance to find the net - McClean wasted a header from 8 yards out, Long just needed to cushion his volley and it was 2-0, Duffy was least culpable - he actually headed back across goal and was unlucky that the keeper checked his stride beforehand to make the save, and McGeady ballooned it over the top when he should have taken a step back to get over the ball and volley home from ten yards out. Enough chances to have won alright. But it would have been an injustice had we beaten a team who bossed the proceedings for 75 of the 90 minutes.

[DeLorean]

They were better for sure. Technically streets ahead of us. Even their keeper - who gifted us the goal - played better than Randolph.

But they didn't deserve to win because in the end of the day, they created very little. We had more chances than they had - McClean, Duffy, Long and McGeady all had decent chances.

So we were worth our draw?... I just can't get on board with that after such an utterly pathetic performance. Our goal shouldn't have even counted. We deserved zilch. But anyway, it doesn't matter I guess.

[pineapple stu]

I think so. We defended well and had more chances, and that's part of the game.

[Olé Olé]

We were utterly atrocious. I couldn't be bothered trying to find positives. But, Christ, some media outlets would let you believe the world of Irish football was about to end.

This lad, in particular, would want to relax. Our under 21 team rarely does well. It always takes our players slightly longer to break through. The good win by our under 19 side gets ignored (the author is probably unaware, to be fair). I'm not sure why every poor result or performance leads to this reaction.

Irish football's problems go deeper than the Wes Hoolahan debate http://the42.ie/3578092

[Olé Olé]

I think so. We defended well and had more chances, and that's part of the game.

I think it's the possession stat that people will use to counter your points above. They did have much more of the ball than us and moved it quicker and our midfield looked lost at sea. I don't know was McClean asked to go in there and roll up his sleeves or if he did it himself.

The possession stat is an obvious stick and, perhaps, a fair one to beat the performance with but Georgia had far less chances and their goal was the result of criminal defence by Christie and it wouldn't have been scored if Coleman were there (reaching a bit there, I know).

I think we were utterly atrocious but I don't think it's fair to say one team deserved it more than the other. It's not black and white in that regard, in my opinion. But I don't want to accentuate too many of the positives from that game either because, on the whole, it was unacceptable.

[DeLorean]

I think so. We defended well and had more chances, and that's part of the game.

Our defenders played okay, not sure I'd agree we defended well overall though. Arter and Whelan were desperately poor so everything was a bit last ditch and made for very uncomfortable viewing, particularly in the first half. Defending well for me should be a team effort and being more solid throughout. I thought Duffy and Clark did well alright under incredibly difficult circumstances.

[AlanOB]

RE: Olé Olé's post

The42's audience will eat that up, to be fair. That's all that matters -- clicks.

It's hard to justify the length of some their pieces too, given the content within. That one is particularly incoherent...much like our manager's tactical approach!

[pineapple stu]

I think it's the possession stat that people will use to counter your points above.
The possession stat is an obvious stick and, perhaps, a fair one to beat the performance with but Georgia had far less chances and their goal was the result of criminal defence by Christie and it wouldn't have been scored if Coleman were there (reaching a bit there, I know).
I don't think the possession stat is too relevant in modern football. The matches in the Euros largely consisted of two teams trying to give the other the ball, then sit back deep, invite them on and hit them on the break. 35 v 65 possession is common enough for a team to win with I think.

(I agree with you on Christie, though I don't think you can make the point about gifting goals without referencing our goal)


I think we were utterly atrocious, but I don't it's fair to say one team deserved it more than the other.
I'd agree with this.

My worry is an in-form Serbia won't be quite so toothless as Georgia were

[pineapple stu]

Also, a lot of that 42.ie article seems to be a copy and paste of an article by Richie Sadlier in the Irish Times yesterday

[Bungle]

Georgians were considered among the most technically gifted players in the old soviet teams. I consider them to be a decent team who have been desperately unlucky in this group. They should have taken 6 points off us,3 off wales and not lost to either Serbia or Austria at home. With a bit of nous,they could be top of this group. I reckon they can make euro 2020 if they maintain progress.

Regarding us,it is glaringly obvious we are a better team with Wes. Our players have an outlet to pass it to;rather than the hopeful hoof up the field. Eamon Dumphy made a valid point that wes inspires confidence and while he is now a 35 year old championship player, i would agree. We have others like Arter and Brady (even Hendrick too) that are decent ball players. There is no reason for us to play like that. Northern Ireland with an inferior player pool play far nicer stuff than we do. That is on Martin O'Neill in my opinion,just like it was on Trap.

I find the article on our underage structure somewhat tiresome. If anything,we have produced some terrific talent in the last 2-3 years. McCauley is with Brewster the best underage talent in Liverpool (not including Woodburn),while Masterson and Kelleher are doing well too. Tyreke Wilson is making great progress at City and by all accounts has the attitude which Jack Byrne doesn't have. Lee O'Connor is one of the most highly rated youth players at United. There is a very strong contingent of Irish youths at Brighton,Southampton and Villa. Jack Hayes is touted as potentially outstanding and Sean Brennan also. We have Idah at Norwich too who i rate very highly. Parrott is a fabulous talent - as good an underage talent i've seen in years from Dublin. St Kevin's have beaten Barca and other top clubs over the past number of years.

Most of those lads will end up back in the loi or they will drop down the divisions,but if we even get one world class player or two very decent players from them, then that keeps us competitive. The Fai have a lot to answer for,as do those who run schoolboy football,but we are still against all odds producing talent.

[osarusan]

We were muck, but they didn't have enough in attack to score more. I think we can say we were lucky.

From their perspective, they were gifted possession and territory for most of the game, and didn't manage to create much at all. I don't think they can say they were unlucky.

[mark12345]

We were muck, but they didn't have enough in attack to score more. I think we can say we were lucky.

From their perspective, they were gifted possession and territory for most of the game, and didn't manage to create much at all. I don't think they can say they were unlucky.

Ratings Anyone?

[mark12345]

Ratings Anyone?

The Collective: Twelve of the 15 involved in Georgia (Darren Randolph, Aiden McGeady and Roy Keane apart) were time thieves. That is they stole two hours of their lives we'll never get back. For those of us who were utterly shocked by how bad England could be against Iceland, this was way way worse. If we play like that for the remainder of the campaign, we are as sure as manure not going to Russia.

The Manager: The 64K question about Martin O'Neill is this - what were his instructions to his players before they took the field in Tblisi? And what were his instructions to his players before they played Austria in Dublin?
If the answer is that he told them to play hoof ball for 90 minutes (160 minutes to be exact, until Hoolahan came on at the Aviva) then he should hand in his resignation on Monday morning.
And if he didn't tell them that - if he gave them some other variation of a hoof ball game, then why on God's green earth, having witnessed the muck of the first 45 minutes in Georgia, did he not say to his players "Look lads we need to play differently".
He saw it the same as we did, and he was happy to let it continue.
Martin O'Neill and Roy Keane played in teams that passed other teams to death. How did their team get to play such 'alien' football?

[mark12345]

The Players.

Darren Randolph (7): Blameless for the goal and his kicking was superb. But therein perhaps lies a window into Ireland's tactics for yesterday's game. Every time Randolph was called upon to kick the ball out, he didn't look to play it short. He chose the long high ball every time. Instructed to do this beforehand perhaps?

Cyrus Christie (4): As bad as anyone else at the back in that he hoofed it all day. Was not helped by a midfield who showed their backsides to our defenders instead of coming looking for the short ball. Abiding memory of Christie's performance will be in the 94th minute, with a mass of green shirts waiting in the box for his cross, he decided to try to beat the last man and ran the ball out of play. Very unintelligent.

Shane Duffy (5): Great goal, and almost bagged a second. But hoofed it all day long. Could he not see that such a tactic resulted in the ball coming back at him as soon as it left his boot?

Ciaran Clark (4): Carbon copy of Duffy

Stephen Ward (4): Carbon copy of above two

Glenn Whelan (10): Great player. Came short all day long. Built numerous moves from midfield. Played better than Pirlo ever did. Set up at least 15 chances with his brilliant diagonal and reverse passes. Will be surprised if he is not snapped up by Barca or Real Madrid in the January transfer window.

Harry Arter (4): Newcomer to the scene and capable of a whole mountain more than he displayed in Georgia. Question is why did he not come short for passes from his defenders. Why did he not demand more from his midfield colleagues? Why......because it is very likely that he was instructed to watch the ball fly over his head and then try to pick up the pieces.

[mark12345]

Remaining Players

Robbie Brady (4): A midfielder missing in action. As culpable as anyone.

John Walters (3): The lumberjack forward that we all love. His time (ie the type of forward that he is) had come and gone 30 years ago, yet we still persist with tried and failed methods.
Ah but sure who else do we have? It's the age old question. The answer is we do have others who are playing at a much lower level but who will hold the ball up. Don't get me wrong, John has scored us some crucial goals over the years and always gives 110 per cent, but I would be prepared to go as far down the ranks as Graham Burke of Rovers, and I'm not a big LOI fan) in order to change our method of getting the ball to our front men and making it stick.

Shane Long (3): Tried. But if the focus of our attacking game was on him winning the ball in the air and causing the Georgian defence problems, he failed miserably. Had a great chance to make it 2-0 - a more cushioned volley would have done it, but failed. Such are the margins of good goalscorers and average ones. Ultimately he is as one dimensional a player as John Walters. He'll nick you a goal every ten games but won't do much more.

James McClean (4): Tried, perhaps more than most. But was lost in a tide of white shirts coming incessantly towards the Irish goal. Missed a glorious chance to make it 2-0 shortly after the opener.

Aiden McGeady (6): Held the ball and ran at the opposition. Wow what a concept? He changed the game in our favor somewhat after coming on. Had a bad miss at the end although the ball would not sit up for him. Imagine (Mr O'Neill) what sort of an impact McGeady would have had had he started?

Daryl Murphy (N/A): Not applicable in that he shouldn't be in the team. He is more of Walters and Long only with less ability.

[mark12345]

We were muck, but they didn't have enough in attack to score more. I think we can say we were lucky.

From their perspective, they were gifted possession and territory for most of the game, and didn't manage to create much at all. I don't think they can say they were unlucky.

They were as luck as they'll ever be. No team, not even Andorra or San Marino would ever gift them that much possession. If they did their manager would risk being fired.

[geysir]

The team were sent out poorly prepared with a negative game plan and ended up a shambles in the first half, as worse as our worse evers.
The 2nd half taken on its own was okay, the longer we endured the the more the Georgians energy faded, as Ger quipped, all that running around with the ball took its toll on the skilful Georgians.
The one point is okay (seeing as the Georgians are known to come good in september), it's the performance and tactics that don't bode well for le crunch game v Serbia.
I kinda expect a recovery though.

[Olé Olé]

Georgians were considered among the most technically gifted players in the old soviet teams. I consider them to be a decent team who have been desperately unlucky in this group. They should have taken 6 points off us,3 off wales and not lost to either Serbia or Austria at home. With a bit of nous,they could be top of this group. I reckon they can make euro 2020 if they maintain progress.

Regarding us,it is glaringly obvious we are a better team with Wes. Our players have an outlet to pass it to;rather than the hopeful hoof up the field. Eamon Dumphy made a valid point that wes inspires confidence and while he is now a 35 year old championship player, i would agree. We have others like Arter and Brady (even Hendrick too) that are decent ball players. There is no reason for us to play like that. Northern Ireland with an inferior player pool play far nicer stuff than we do. That is on Martin O'Neill in my opinion,just like it was on Trap.

I find the article on our underage structure somewhat tiresome. If anything,we have produced some terrific talent in the last 2-3 years. McCauley is with Brewster the best underage talent in Liverpool (not including Woodburn),while Masterson and Kelleher are doing well too. Tyreke Wilson is making great progress at City and by all accounts has the attitude which Jack Byrne doesn't have. Lee O'Connor is one of the most highly rated youth players at United. There is a very strong contingent of Irish youths at Brighton,Southampton and Villa. Jack Hayes is touted as potentially outstanding and Sean Brennan also. We have Idah at Norwich too who i rate very highly. Parrott is a fabulous talent - as good an underage talent i've seen in years from Dublin. St Kevin's have beaten Barca and other top clubs over the past number of years.

Most of those lads will end up back in the loi or they will drop down the divisions,but if we even get one world class player or two very decent players from them, then that keeps us competitive. The Fai have a lot to answer for,as do those who run schoolboy football,but we are still against all odds producing talent.

You're on the ball here and you also qualify your post with a nod towards the conversion rate. So what you have done there is make a balanced post underpinned by actual knowledge of the actual circumstances in our underage sides. On the other hand, the wafer-think knowledge of the 42 writer saw him refer to that one statistic regarding Irish-born players and little else. Torturous.

[pineapple stu]

anything,we have produced some terrific talent in the last 2-3 years. McCauley is with Brewster the best underage talent in Liverpool (not including Woodburn),while Masterson and Kelleher are doing well too. Tyreke Wilson is making great progress at City and by all accounts has the attitude which Jack Byrne doesn't have. Lee O'Connor is one of the most highly rated youth players at United. There is a very strong contingent of Irish youths at Brighton,Southampton and Villa. Jack Hayes is touted as potentially outstanding and Sean Brennan also. We have Idah at Norwich too who i rate very highly. Parrott is a fabulous talent - as good an underage talent i've seen in years from Dublin. St Kevin's have beaten Barca and other top clubs over the past number of years.
Have we produced some terrific talent though? I mean - where are they?

If you go back a couple of years, Dan Cleary and Alex O'Hanlon both scored for Liverpool in the UEFA Youth League; Cleary went on to make the bench in a Europa League tie. Now they're at Solihull Moors and St Pat's. Fiacre Kelleher (5 years at Celtic) is at Solihull too.

Here's a (http://foot.ie/threads/181842-U21s-squad-v-Faroe-Islands-(August-14)) random foot thread from a while back - an under-21s squad from 2013. These players should be starting to impose themselves on the senior team now. Shane Duffy is the only one who's been capped - and he's played fewer than 10 Premiership games. Matt Doherty at Wolves - you could make a case he should be in the squad, but even then, he's a second flight player. But mostly, they're now at Colchester, Woking, St Johnstone, the bench at Ross County, Bury.

None of that stacks up with the notion that we're producing "terrific", "outstanding" or "fabulous" players.

We have fewer players in the Premiership than ever before. The vast majority of the 21s squad - 10 of 13 with wiki articles - are English-born; nothing against 2G players - but clearly there's issues with the game here if there's so few Irish-born players coming through.

There's no point playing blind to this any more and thinking we're about to turn the corner.

[mark12345]

Doing Martin's job for him on Tuesday:

The manager was once the best in these islands. What the hell has happened to him?
Here is a team and a game plan for you on Tuesday. If you have a better one please let us know (maybe you do?).

Team:

Randolph, Christie, Duffy, Ward, Brady, McGeady, Arter, Hoolahan, McClean, Walters, Horgan (an injury withdrawal should facilitate Maguire's call up. It would be nice to see him play alongside Walters)

Game Plan:

Three at the back with McGeady and Brady coming for passes from midfield to accept passes and build moves. Crucial that they do this and not isolate themselves on the wings. Allow McGeady and Brady to run through the middle at the Serbs. Harry Arter, sitting in front of the back three should be the outlet pass. Enter Hoolahan - around the center circle - who spreads the play to wingers McClean, Horgan. Run at the full backs and use Walters as a decoy (instead of hitting the high cross to the big man, pull it back to the edge of the area where hopefully Arter, Hoolahan will be arriving). It's a plan. And it's light years better than the plan on Saturday.

[mark12345]

Have we produced some terrific talent though? I mean - where are they?

If you go back a couple of years, Dan Cleary and Alex O'Hanlon both scored for Liverpool in the UEFA Youth League; Cleary went on to make the bench in a Europa League tie. Now they're at Solihull Moors and St Pat's. Fiacre Kelleher (5 years at Celtic) is at Solihull too.

Here's a (http://foot.ie/threads/181842-U21s-squad-v-Faroe-Islands-(August-14)) random foot thread from a while back - an under-21s squad from 2013. These players should be starting to impose themselves on the senior team now. Shane Duffy is the only one who's been capped - and he's played fewer than 10 Premiership games. Matt Doherty at Wolves - you could make a case he should be in the squad, but even then, he's a second flight player. But mostly, they're now at Colchester, Woking, St Johnstone, the bench at Ross County, Bury.

None of that stacks up with the notion that we're producing "terrific", "outstanding" or "fabulous" players.

We have fewer players in the Premiership than ever before. The vast majority of the 21s squad - 10 of 13 with wiki articles - are English-born; nothing against 2G players - but clearly there's issues with the game here if there's so few Irish-born players coming through.

There's no point playing blind to this any more and thinking we're about to turn the corner.

You make a good point Stu. But what is your answer to the problem. I'm speaking honestly, not being conceited. Do you believe that we should send our young lads to Holland, Belgium, Germany, Denmark instead of to the graveyard of English football.
If all those kids are so good at youth level, how do they become so bad? Something is thwarting their growth. It wouldn't happen at such an alarming rate in say Spain or Italy.
If they had a Glen McCauley or Troy Parrott on their hands, you can be sure they'd nurture him to the highest level.

[mark12345]

We were muck, but they didn't have enough in attack to score more. I think we can say we were lucky.

From their perspective, they were gifted possession and territory for most of the game, and didn't manage to create much at all. I don't think they can say they were unlucky.

They were as luck as they'll ever be. No team, not even Andorra or San Marino would ever gift them that much possession. If they did their manager would risk being fired.

[pineapple stu]

You make a good point Stu. But what is your answer to the problem. I'm speaking honestly, not being conceited. Do you believe that we should send our young lads to Holland, Belgium, Germany, Denmark instead of to the graveyard of English football.
We need to grow a professional environment in Ireland. English clubs aren't interested in our players any more now that they can have any young player from around the world. We need to invest heavily in the LoI, spice it up so new clubs can/want to join, and take control of our youth development ourselves.

I think our players suffer hugely due to the lack of a professional option here. Professional development between, say, 18 and 22, is crucial I think, and if a player doesn't go to England, then they're going to lose out big time as a result. Yes, players like Andy Boyle, Conor Sammon, etc, show you can stay at home and go on to play internationally - but then Boyle is 26 and only starting to come through the ranks now, so we're way behind development-wise.

[AlanOB]

Also, a lot of that 42.ie article seems to be a copy and paste of an article by Richie Sadlier in the Irish Times yesterday

Interesting!

[pineapple stu]

Actually, I think I'll have to take that back - it does cross-reference some similar stats to Sadlier's article, but then it also quotes the article itself. Not as bad as I'd thought on a first glance.

Here is (https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/richie-sadlier-not-in-fai-s-nature-to-nurture-young-talent-1.3206294) the Sadlier article for comparison.

[backstothewall]

Massive overreaction on here to an admittedly disappointing result. Talk of going completely new formations with 2 days preparation or dropping stalwarts on the evidence of 1 bad game. Crazy stuff.

It was bad but Georgia aren't as bad as their ranking would suggest. They are a particularly hard nut to crack at home as other sides equivalent to us have found in recent years.

We pick ourselves up, dust ourselves down and throw the kitchen sink at Serbia on Tuesday. That is all that is required here.

[mark12345]

Massive overreaction on here to an admittedly disappointing result. Talk of going completely new formations with 2 days preparation or dropping stalwarts on the evidence of 1 bad game. Crazy stuff.


Three bad games in this group actually, not one. And two of them weren't just bad, they ranked (at least Saturday's performance did) with the worst international displays of any team ever.
There was so much that could have been done differently on Saturday. If the plan was to invite them on us, the plan should also have included players for a quick counter attack (ie McGeady and Horgan or McClean). With Walters in the team you are never going to spring a lightning counter attack are you? Shane Long started - as he should have done. But after 45 minutes it called for a change of attacking ideas - Sean Maguire maybe? I know he's brand new in upper tier football but he is the only viable option we have.

[brine3]

Martin O'Neil's Ireland are horribly unwatchable. It's like torture watching his side play.

[mark12345]

We need to grow a professional environment in Ireland. English clubs aren't interested in our players any more now that they can have any young player from around the world. We need to invest heavily in the LoI, spice it up so new clubs can/want to join, and take control of our youth development ourselves.

I think our players suffer hugely due to the lack of a professional option here. Professional development between, say, 18 and 22, is crucial I think, and if a player doesn't go to England, then they're going to lose out big time as a result. Yes, players like Andy Boyle, Conor Sammon, etc, show you can stay at home and go on to play internationally - but then Boyle is 26 and only starting to come through the ranks now, so we're way behind development-wise.

American football is an option. People scoff at MLS, saying it is for has beens etc, but what they do not realize is there are tons of young lads who are coached properly in the US, by American and foreign coaches, and play to a very good standard. I have seen enough of MLS to say it, the top teams anyway, are better than most Championship teams. It would take a bit of a departure for our 14 and 15 year olds to want to go to America, but it would pay dividends in the long run. I have no doubt.

[pineapple stu]

Top MLS teams are still quite poor IMO.

And when you talk about a 14/15 year old going to America, you're talking about uprooting a whole family and sending them to the far side of the world for a 1 in a million shot.

It really isn't a practical option - certainly not one we should be actively pursuing anyway.

[Cymro]

Personally I thought Georgia were unlucky not to beat us in Cardiff - after we were the better team in the first half they were battering us for the last half hour. They seem to have a bit of a defensive problem and are not the best organised but are excellent at retaining possession, which lends itself in turn to being quite hard to beat simply because you can't get the ball off them.

I think it's quite possible we may drop points over there and three points would be a considerable achievement.

[mark12345]

Actually, I think I'll have to take that back - it does cross-reference some similar stats to Sadlier's article, but then it also quotes the article itself. Not as bad as I'd thought on a first glance.

Here is (https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/richie-sadlier-not-in-fai-s-nature-to-nurture-young-talent-1.3206294) the Sadlier article for comparison.

Read the 42 article which also refers to Sadlier's piece in the Times.
One thing stood out like a bright light in the darkness, only, unfortunately it was a negative.
It said that many Irish kids under the age of 12 are still playing eleven-a-side games on full size pitches. That says it all - no more needs to be said.
I have had my experience of this in recent years. There is no way on God's green earth that kids so young should be playing in eleven a side teams on full size pitches.
You need 5 a side games on much smaller pitches - that way they get a million more touches on the ball and learn at an infinitely faster rate.
Those folks who remain intransigent and don't want our kids to do it the right way, and it's coaches and parents alike, are killing any potential their kids might have.
WAKE UP!

Another thing said in the comments section of that article, is that fans will need to stay away from the Aviva in their droves in order for the FAI to change. Just imagine if Ireland are played off the park by Serbia on Tuesday and are say 2-0 down at half time, having repeated the caveman football of Saturday. To see hundreds of fans getting up and leaving would be the best statement the public could make.

[DannyInvincible]

Our goal shouldn't have even counted.

Were there questions of a foul? I thought the goal was fine. Their keeper was flapping all over the place, but I don't think he was fouled. Bodies came together as three players challenged for the ball, but neither Clark nor Duffy had hands on him.

https://www.thesun.ie/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2017/09/photojoiner_photo-19.jpeg

[backstothewall]

Three bad games in this group actually, not one. And two of them weren't just bad, they ranked (at least Saturday's performance did) with the worst international displays of any team ever.
There was so much that could have been done differently on Saturday. If the plan was to invite them on us, the plan should also have included players for a quick counter attack (ie McGeady and Horgan or McClean). With Walters in the team you are never going to spring a lightning counter attack are you? Shane Long started - as he should have done. But after 45 minutes it called for a change of attacking ideas - Sean Maguire maybe? I know he's brand new in upper tier football but he is the only viable option we have.

"the worst international displays of any team ever"

Spare me the hyperbole. It was bad but I'd invite you to watch us against Liechtenstein in '95, Cyprus in '06 or Germany in 2012.

We were never going to launch any sort of counter against Georgia as they were never going to throw enough men forward to leave themselves vulnerable to that. They were happy to hold their shape and pass us to death. It was too warm for the sort of pressing game needed to counter those tactics. What we needed was someone with the technical ability to give us a spark in midfield. Personally I'd have gone with Hoolahan but O'Neill went with McGeady and I'd have to conceed that he did well.

We're in a good position to qualify. This is no time to panic.

[DannyInvincible]

Another thing said in the comments section of that article, is that fans will need to stay away from the Aviva in their droves in order for the FAI to change. Just imagine if Ireland are played off the park by Serbia on Tuesday and are say 2-0 down at half time, having repeated the caveman football of Saturday. To see hundreds of fans getting up and leaving would be the best statement the public could make.

I agree that only something like that - hitting the FAI in the pocket - would force significant change within the organisation, but so long as a boycott or walk-out could be interpreted, misconstrued or mischaracterised by disgruntled fans, concerned parties and casual observers alike as shunning the team/players, I don't envisage something like that ever happening. Well, not unless things got exceptionally desperate and we were struggling at the bottom of a qualification group.

[mark12345]

Top MLS teams are still quite poor IMO.

And when you talk about a 14/15 year old going to America, you're talking about uprooting a whole family and sending them to the far side of the world for a 1 in a million shot.

It really isn't a practical option - certainly not one we should be actively pursuing anyway.

You're probably right about it not being a practical option. Uprooting families would be a big ask.
However the MLS is not a 'poor' league.
The players in America are streets ahead of our international players in terms of technical ability (you have a large smattering of Central / South Americans and Africans who are very good on the ball).

[liamoo11]

How will we line up on Tuesday? I think Brady is vital to us but has really struggled in midfield on Austrian game and yesterday. I would play him left full it let's him get on the ball way more and he can pass into midfield and put good ball into the box with ward offering none of that. I would be willing to accept his possible defensive lapses. I can't see when an having recovered from that heat and long flight to be fit for rules day. We will need legs that at his age and after that heat and flight I can't see him having. For me I would play MeyLer instead. I would play mcgeady and Mcclean wide and have wes and arter in with meyler with arter pushing on to join long when we have the ball so wes can drop into midfield to get on the ball. I don't think wes Been advanced of the ball as in playing off long suits him cause he struggles to get on it

[mark12345]

"the worst international displays of any team ever"

Spare me the hyperbole. It was bad but I'd invite you to watch us against Liechtenstein in '95, Cyprus in '06 or Germany in 2012.

We were never going to launch any sort of counter against Georgia as they were never going to throw enough men forward to leave themselves vulnerable to that. They were happy to hold their shape and pass us to death. It was too warm for the sort of pressing game needed to counter those tactics. What we needed was someone with the technical ability to give us a spark in midfield. Personally I'd have gone with Hoolahan but O'Neill went with McGeady and I'd have to conceed that he did well.

We're in a good position to qualify. This is no time to panic.

"They were never going to throw enough men forward to leave themselves vulnerable to that (a counter attack)." I don't know what you mean by this? They were camped in our half for most of the first half. Had we an outlet ball to McGeady and another crafty winger like Horgan then we would have presented them problems. I agree hundred per cent with you about playing Hoolahan, I think everyone agrees with that sentiment. But the question we must ask ourselves is - if MON had no intention of playing Wes, why did he subject him to two long flights in the space of three days?

[youngirish]

Its easy to criticise the manager but we've more or less had the same negative approach since the Kerr days and the quality of the players O'Neill has at his disposal must be considered. If you look at the players McCarthy put out against Holland the last time we qualified for the World Cup (https://www.theguardian.com/football/2001/sep/02/newsstory.sport2) only Brady would have any chance of staking a claim for a place in that team. For all Harte's faults he was miles better than Stephen Ward who is one of the poorest players I've seen in the jersey.

To play good football and get decent results you need players who are good with the ball. I struggle to see how you would play possession football with the likes of Ward, McClean, Whelan and Clark in the team.

[Calcio Jack]

Thought I'd wait 24 hours to reflect before posting.

As bad as the turgid performance by the players was it pales when compared to O'Neills disgraceful display of passive aggressiveness he delivered when interviewed after the match- the man showed what a pathetic bully he is as he performed a Clough style bully boy attack - that might work with players where he is in control of their destiny but was shown up for its ignorance and crassness by Tony O'D- MON isn't up to the job and no amount smug not so clever ignorant comments like he made yesterday will cover that up. The sooner he's gone the better.

[geysir]

Thought I'd wait 24 hours to reflect before posting.

As bad as the turgid performance by the players was it pales when compared to O'Neills disgraceful display of passive aggressiveness he delivered when interviewed after the match- the man showed what a pathetic bully he is as he performed a Clough style bully boy attack - that might work with players where he is in control of their destiny but was shown up for its ignorance and crassness by Tony O'D- MON isn't up to the job and no amount smug not so clever ignorant comments like he made yesterday will cover that up. The sooner he's gone the better.
I thought O'Neill handled Tony well and managed not to shove that monster mike down Tony's throat. Tony is yet another advocate of the leading question which he throws out with schoolboy gusto. Instead of asking how Martin felt about the all the long balls played and was it part of the game plan, he spurts out "You can't be happy with all the long balls?"
Then Tony asks (in crisis mode) "Is there a quick fix?" :D
is there a quick fix?? If Tony was the tv news reporter on the economy, the currency has collapsed, is there a quick fix ask Tony?:rolleyes: