English Championship - 17/18

[CraftyToePoke]

Who will be in the shake up & who will be the surprise package ?

& who do we most want up this coming season from an Irish viewpoint ?

Villa flying with a Whelan / Hourihane central axis would be lovely, and not impossible, they weren't a million miles away last year.

Big year for Kelly at Reading and Manning at QPR, the breakthrough as hard as it is to achieve, bears no resemblance to the challenge set by making that eleven week in week out for the next decade or more.

Also, Cullen will get to test himself there with Bolton. Last season I watched both Hourihane and Cullen play against Peterborough and Chris Forrester, he looked better than both of them in those games, in that period there was big buzz about him, yet it's the other two who have navigated the next step and good luck to them.

Aiden O'Brien will turn 24 as a Championship level striker, and at a club where he can expect to at least be given a chance to find the level after making 43 apps last season. He hit one in two for our u21s & it'd would be great to see him do well enough to offer a credible squad option.

And as much as we'd love a breakout season in the Prem for an Irish player, it's more likely to come from this division I suppose, (Long & Rice apart) this years Liam Kelly, anyone willing to pick a name ?

Oh, and Preston Shamrocks.

[OwlsFan]

Not many would have predicted Huddersfield last season but the top two were among the favourites.

It's very open this season with no obvious stand out side. Perhaps it would be best by starting with who won't be promoted:

Not Promoted: Burton, Barnsley, Bolton, Millwall, Brentford, Sheffield United, Ipswich, Bristol City, Preston.

Outsiders but could be surprise: Cardiff, Notts Forest, QPR, Birmingham, Reading.

Contenders: Wolves (deep pockets), Sunderland, Leeds, Middlesboro, Hull, Fulham, Sheff Wed, Norwich, Derby, Aston Villa.

Tip: Wolves, Fulham, Villa but could be anyone. If Owls keep their manager, would be very surprised if promoted.

[DeLorean]

If Owls keep their manager, would be very surprised if promoted.

Lost faith in Carvalhal?

[OwlsFan]

Lost faith in Carvalhal?

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.

[DeLorean]

The results have been really solid though. Probably the most consistent team in the Championship over two seasons, or close enough? Obviously I wouldn't be as well up on the specifics as you though - what does he need to change?

[OwlsFan]

He has spent a veritable fortune by Wednesday standards and the team is going backwards. Last season I think he spent €20+ million and yet 10 of the team that lost to Huddersfield in the semi-final was the same as that which was out-played at Wembley in the Final the season before. He has the most potent strike force in the Championship (Hooper, Rhodes, Fletcher, Winnall and Forestieri) but they get no service and he sometimes plays Nuhiu (19 goals in 142 appearances !!). The performances at the tail end of the season and this season have been poor and terrible to watch. No shot on target that I remember against Preston but perhaps he'll turn things round but I doubt it. I'd prefer the still available Nigel Pearson. It's an interesting league though where anyone can beat anyone but the standard of some games is awful.

[OwlsFan]

Only 4 games in, and the bottom 5 are pretty much the ones you'd expect to be fighting off relegation (i.e. the 4 B's Bolton, Brentford, Burton and Barnsley and Millwall. Great start by Mick's Ipswich - doubt if they'll keep it up though.

[OwlsFan]

So farewell then Simon Grayson. Relegation from the "richest league in the world" can be tough for a club which has spent millions to try and stay there. Surprise though Sunderland are doing so badly. I had them marked down as contenders to go the other way. Surprises of the season Bristol City and Sheffield United. O'Dowda seems to be playing really well for the former http://www.punditarena.com/football/smcmahon/watch-callum-odowdas-brilliant-performance-yesterday-gives-oneill-plenty-to-think-about/ Think he had another assist last night as well.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Sunderland are a basket case. Know a few of their fans through various channels, they really want Roy Keane approached about taking over. Could do a lot worse, but doubt he'd be interested. Critical season for them all the same. If they go down again it might take decades to recover from.

[OwlsFan]

Sunderland are a basket case. Know a few of their fans through various channels, they really want Roy Keane approached about taking over. Could do a lot worse, but doubt he'd be interested. Critical season for them all the same. If they go down again it might take decades to recover from.

Are they English Sunderland fans or Irish Sunderland fans that want Keane back ?

[Charlie Darwin]

Are they English Sunderland fans or Irish Sunderland fans that want Keane back ?
The Irish Sunderland fans switched to supporting rugby years ago.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Are they English Sunderland fans or Irish Sunderland fans that want Keane back ?

English. Their reasoning is that the club needs a brutal dictator type to clear away dead wood, stand up to the owners and generally be a presence, even if its only to stabilise things in the short term. The anti-Moyes one might say.

[OwlsFan]

The Irish Sunderland fans switched to supporting rugby years ago.

I would have thought they switched to Ipswich, and then Ireland, then Villa and back to Ireland ?

[Charlie Darwin]

Nah, Ipswich never got promoted.

[OwlsFan]

So it's one win in 16 games for Sheffield Wednesday against teams managed my Mick McCarthy. Last minute equaliser last night (against Mick of course) by a forward (Nuhiu) who hadn't scored for 40+ games and whose total of 19 in 143 games makes Shane Long's 18 in 94 for Southampton look prolific.

[OwlsFan]

Saw QPR score 2 in injury time to rescue a point last night against Brentford. Alas for half the QPR fans they had left the ground and didn't get to see it! When are fans ever going to learn that it ain't over until the fat lady sings? Had to laugh at the QPR manager though.Instead of rejoicing, he was moaning that one of the Brentford goals was offside (correct by a kneecap) and they should have had a peno (handball but looked accidental). However, if he looked a bit closer he might have spotted that both QPR goals were offside !!

[CraftyToePoke]

Who's next at Wednesday you reckon Owlly ? Merry go round usual suspect or a left field pick?

[OwlsFan]

Would you believe that the favourite is another Portugues, Paulo Fonseca, the current manager of Shakhtar Donetsk. Not sure where that one came from. My choice would be Mick McCarthy (though he's not among the favourites) or Nigel Pearson, or of course it could be the usual where the interim manager (Lee Bullen) gets a few results and is offered the job, only to be sacked shortly thereafter when the bubble has burst.

Paulo Fonseca
2/1
Paul Lambert
5/2
Lee Bullen
5/1
Garry Monk
11/2
Nigel Pearson
6/1
Aitor Karanka
8/1
Gary Megson
10/1
Paul Hurst
10/1
Slaven Bilic
10/1
Ryan Giggs
14/1
Simon Grayson
16/1
Steve McClaren
18/1
Paul Clement
20/1

[Kingdom]

See Carvahal has gone to Swansea. Not sure if that's a short-term promotion or long-term demotion. Owlsfan, how would you like Karanka? I'd prefer him over Pearson myself.

[OwlsFan]

See Carvahal has gone to Swansea. Not sure if that's a short-term promotion or long-term demotion. Owlsfan, how would you like Karanka? I'd prefer him over Pearson myself.

I wouldn't mind Aitor Karanka. Alas, Steve McLaren now the odds on favourite. How is he still getting interviews? He's been sacked more often of late than there have been Harry Potter sequels !

[CraftyToePoke]

McLaren has left his present job too since the Weds job came up, id agree with you, a busted flush if ever there was one & especially with Karanka or Pearson, a Weds club man out of work.

[OwlsFan]

Still the favourite but Guy Poyet's odds have shortened. Can't remember him doing a lot other than getting sacked at Sunderland. I have no idea who Danny Cowley is.

Steve McClaren
1/2
Gus Poyet
7/2
Lee Bullen
6/1
Paulo Fonseca
14/1
Nigel Pearson
18/1
Paul Lambert
20/1
Slaven Bilic
20/1
Garry Monk
22/1
Aitor Karanka
25/1
Andre Villas-Boas
25/1
Brendan Rodgers
25/1
Danny Cowley
25/1

[DeLorean]

I have no idea who Danny Cowley is.

Lincoln City manager, fairly young fella. They had that good cup run last season when they beat Burnley, amongst others, and also won whatever the Vauxhall Conference is called these days! They are challenging for promotion from League 2 now as well, currently in third which is an automatic spot I think.

[OwlsFan]

I think if you drive within 50 miles of Sheffield, you become the favourite. Paul Lambert now the odds on favourite but the Chairman wants to speak to Andre Villas-Boas but apparently has to wait until Villas-Boas completes the Paris to Dakar Rally ! Meanwhile the club spirals towards the all too familiar relegation zone.

Paul Lambert
1/4
Steve McClaren
5/1
Andre Villas-Boas
10/1
Jose Riga
14/1
Claudio Ranieri
16/1
Gus Poyet
16/1
Lee Bullen
18/1
Costinha
20/1
Juan Antonio Pizzi
20/1
Martin O'Neill
20/1
Nigel Pearson
20/1
Paul Hurst
20/1

[Kingdom]

It's unacceptable that a club the size of Wednesday could be in league 1.

[OwlsFan]

It's unacceptable that a club the size of Wednesday could be in league 1.

I assume that this is a wind up. They spent many years of my life time in that league and but for Jack Charlton would have dropped to Division 2 (or 4 as it was then). Going in to the 18th consecutive year outside the top flight. A whole generation of Sheffield kids has never seen their club in the top tier and the way things are going, it will be a few more years yet. Their recently appointed new Chief Exec has stated that she finds it strange that supporters expect to have a say in the affairs of a club when only a third of revenue is generated by supporters. Such is the thinking of Boardrooms these days.

[NeverFeltBetter]

That's Katrien Meire, who was remarkably unpopular during her Charlton stint. The exact quote OwlsFan refers to is thus, taken from here (https://thesefootballtimes.co/2016/11/17/the-fans-finding-their-voices-against-oppressive-ownership/):


Speaking at the 2015 Web Summit technology conference in Dublin (https://thesefootballtimes.co/2015/10/07/a-tale-of-one-city-dublin/), Charlton chief executive Katrien Meire confidently outlined her vision of transforming Charlton into a “sustainable club” during her time in charge. A suitable and realistic enough goal, certainly. But her comments on the topic afforded fans an uncharacteristically candid view of the intentions of those in charge of their club and served only to further underline their greatest fears.


When remarking at length on the sense of ownership fans feel for the clubs they support, Meire said, with an enduring smile: “Fans don’t see themselves as customers, and so, whenever I now get very friendly emails from fans, they say ‘Get out of our club’ – so it’s not the shareholders’ club? I think it’s quite funny because they say they pay – obviously the ticketing system is one-third of our revenue stream – but they go to the restaurant with their family every week and they go to the cinema, but if they’re not satisfied with the product will they go and scream to the people in charge of it? No, they don’t.


“But they do it with a football club and that’s very weird because they feel a sense of ownership of a football club and that’s a really difficult balance, how you try to engage with fans and make them incorporate into some decisions of the club, but I think it’s – I mean, in the end the bill is paid by somebody else so he should have the final say.”


Meire made no mistake in eloquently communicating just how truly absurd a notion it is, in the view she shares with her employer Duchâtelet; the concept of a fan feeling as if they should retain any kind of possession over or tangible sense of kinship with the club they support.


Minutes later Meire also took the opportunity to give a brief insight into the type of future Charlton fans can look forward to, while speaking about the transparency of the club’s business plan: “[Charlton fans] will hopefully see the next stars of the Premier League which we will have play for Charlton in the first team and then probably sell on to the Premier League,” she said without reserve.


A heart-warming prospect for young fans of the Addicks. Charlton-supporting parents can eagerly anticipate being able to tell their children that their favourite players will likely only be around for long as it takes the owner to secure a healthy profit on them.


She seemed remarkably ill-equipped for her role, just from a PR perspective if nothing else. But as that entire piece outlines, Charlton during her tenure was run poorly on a lot of fronts.

[Kingdom]

I assume that this is a wind up. They spent many years of my life time in that league and but for Jack Charlton would have dropped to Division 2 (or 4 as it was then). Going in to the 18th consecutive year outside the top flight. A whole generation of Sheffield kids has never seen their club in the top tier and the way things are going, it will be a few more years yet. Their recently appointed new Chief Exec has stated that she finds it strange that supporters expect to have a say in the affairs of a club when only a third of revenue is generated by supporters. Such is the thinking of Boardrooms these days.

It's not a wind-up, why would I wind you up over that? Might have been more accurate to say that a city as big as Sheffield, with the support both clubs draw on, not to have one club in the top-flight, or one club managed correctly to be capable of being in the top-flight is beyond me.

Same with Leeds. Don't get me wrong, I love to see little Bournmouth or little Swansea (exaggerated patronising tone) do well, playing decent ball, but give me a Leeds or a Wednesday and 40k every week and the buzz that brings.

[OwlsFan]

Yes, perennial under achievers. At least Leeds though have won a few leagues in my living memory. Sheffield and Leeds population wise are in the top 10 cities in the UK https://thegeographist.wordpress.com/2016/04/07/largest-cities-uk-population/ (Leeds are actually third in England much to my surprise). On the basis of population alone, Bristol must be the biggest failures.

As to the likes of Bournmouth, Watford, Swansea, Burnley et alia in the EPL, they are obviously there on merit but they devalue the league. There are too many clubs where staying up is the sole goal rather than competing for trophies. But then up to a couple of seasons ago, that was Leicester's only aim so who knows what may happen in sport but there is still too much driftwood in the EPL. Man City, Chelsea etc players getting excited scoring against the likes of Watford irritates me. It reminds me of a cricket match I played in a few years ago when the opposition were playing a fast bowler who was way too good for the standard we were playing at. He was positively dangerous and every time he took a wicket, he went delirious with joy. He bowled us out for 22 or something like that but it was a joke the difference in standard but it didn't bother him, I feel that way about 90% of the games in the EPL. Most of the clubs are just cannon fodder for the rich clubs. It wasn't always so. Man U were in the wilderness for years. Derby, Nottingham Forest etc won leagues and European trophies. Now just money and SKY talk.

[Kingdom]

Yes, perennial under achievers. At least Leeds though have won a few leagues in my living memory. Sheffield and Leeds population wise are in the top 10 cities in the UK https://thegeographist.wordpress.com/2016/04/07/largest-cities-uk-population/ (Leeds are actually third in England much to my surprise). On the basis of population alone, Bristol must be the biggest failures.

As to the likes of Bournmouth, Watford, Swansea, Burnley et alia in the EPL, they are obviously there on merit but they devalue the league. There are too many clubs where staying up is the sole goal rather than competing for trophies. But then up to a couple of seasons ago, that was Leicester's only aim so who knows what may happen in sport but there is still too much driftwood in the EPL. Man City, Chelsea etc players getting excited scoring against the likes of Watford irritates me. It reminds me of a cricket match I played in a few years ago when the opposition were playing a fast bowler who was way too good for the standard we were playing at. He was positively dangerous and every time he took a wicket, he went delirious with joy. He bowled us out for 22 or something like that but it was a joke the difference in standard but it didn't bother him, I feel that way about 90% of the games in the EPL. Most of the clubs are just cannon fodder for the rich clubs. It wasn't always so. Man U were in the wilderness for years. Derby, Nottingham Forest etc won leagues and European trophies. Now just money and SKY talk.

There's a storm coming. The current spend is unsustainable. That's what I'm hoping anyway.

[OwlsFan]

Another "outside the box" appointment. Have to admit I never hear of Jos Luhukay, who has managed extensively in the German Bundesliga with Hertha Berlin, VFB Stuttgart and Borussia Monchengladbach and hadn't appeared in any of the betting. Interesting that both Paul Lambert and Steve McClaren were odds on favourites at various stages. First up, the mere occasion of a Sheffield derby at Bramall Lane on Friday.

[OwlsFan]

The fates are interesting. Former Owls' manager who left by "mutual consent" (i.e. "feck off and don't come back!") following a terrible run and the team heading rapidly in the wrong direction, goes to Swansea and rejuvenates the team. Who do Wednesday draw in the Cup at Hillsborough? Swansea!

Meanwhile Leeds sack their 100th manager in 101 days :O

[CraftyToePoke]

The fates are interesting. Former Owls' manager who left by "mutual consent" (i.e. "feck off and don't come back!") following a terrible run and the team heading rapidly in the wrong direction, goes to Swansea and rejuvenates the team. Who do Wednesday draw in the Cup at Hillsborough? Swansea!

Friend of mine is a Weds fan too and he's dreading it, saying he hopes Swansea rest lads for their Prem battles but they won again today.

[OwlsFan]

Wednesday lose to Ipswich. That's 9 games unbeaten for Ipswich at Hillsborough. Mick McCarthy has a great record against them. How to stop this ? Employ him as their manager. He's not appreciated at Ipswich. He'd have money to spend in Sheffield and he's a Yorkshire man so he understands the mentality of the locals.

[CraftyToePoke]

Fulham and Cardiff both winning today again with Villa having to wait till the evening KO game to respond, but end up taking Wolves down by 4-1, great entertainment, Preston lads still in the shake up too.

[OwlsFan]

Much and all as I dislike Warnock for a number of reasons, I have to hand it to him that he does get the best out of sides. Cardiff were 33/1 (he says) to win automatic promotion and he succeeds. 4 strong sides contesting the play offs: Villa, Fulham, 'Boro and Derby. Any one of those could win it.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Would like to see Derby get a chance back in the top tier, for variates sake if nothing else.

[OwlsFan]

Would like to see Derby get a chance back in the top tier, for variates sake if nothing else.

You might get your wish this season. Three medium to small size clubs coming down which will open up the Championship next season (I hope). Still a far more interesting league than the one above. Ipswich's departure ends the longest run in the Championship of any club https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_EFL_Championship_clubs

[OwlsFan]

So farewell then Steve Bruce. Which is the bigger or more satisfying challenge ? Trying to lead a relatively big club back to the EPL after an absence of 20 years or help a large club led by an ass=ole maintain its EPL status, even if you once followed that club? Obviously the latter because it pays better. Contracts mean nothing. Money is everything. What a sport we follow.

[CraftyToePoke]

What a sport we follow.

What a sport indeed Owly, my good man. I am a Villa watcher and I can tell you there were no tears over that way when he departed, this is going to be a feet up, popcorn, car crash. What a sport to provide an even bigger one of those, so soon after MON to Forest.

Who would you like to see in at Wednesday ?

[OwlsFan]

What a sport indeed Owly, my good man. I am a Villa watcher and I can tell you there were no tears over that way when he departed, this is going to be a feet up, popcorn, car crash. What a sport to provide an even bigger one of those, so soon after MON to Forest.

Who would you like to see in at Wednesday ?

Chris Hughton but he apparently is waiting for an opportunity in the EPL. After that anyone but Steve McLaren, Zola or Big Bung Sam.

[OwlsFan]

Time for a Division One thread !