Champions League

[elroy]

With the new season, not far away-whats the chances of an EL team making it into the group stage of the CL in the next few years?
Shels were not a millon miles away last year. A few more years of good development could see an Irish team in the CL group stage. The amount of revenue they would generate would be fantastic for the league

[ThatGuy]

With the new season, not far away-whats the chances of an EL team making it into the group stage of the CL in the next few years?
Shels were not a millon miles away last year. A few more years of good development could see an Irish team in the CL group stage. The amount of revenue they would generate would be fantastic for the league
The amount of money would be fantastic for the club that qualified, but would it be good for the league?

I doubt it. It would destroy the league as a competitive tournament

[Slash/ED]

That's not true, Sheridan posted last year a list of leagues similar to our own in size that had a team qualify for the champions league and they rarely turn into one team leagues. Rosenborg are the exception, not the rule. In fact thay weren't the only side from Norway to make the CL, the other who did it a while ago are now relegation fodder. It wont have the impact on making this a complete one man league like some people seem to think.

[Bald Student]

It would destroy the league as a competitive tournamentI don't think so, I understand it that qualifying would get a club 5 million euro odd. That's enough to invest in some good facilities or players, but not to end the competiveness of the league long term.

If a team invested all the money in players it'd last for a few years and then that team would be back to square one.

[Buller]

Yea, if shels manage to pull it off this year, (i doubt it but u never know), that new 16,000 all-seater sports campus might not be to far away... :rolleyes:

[Kerry Blue]

Yea, if shels manage to pull it off this year, (i doubt it but u never know), that new 16,000 all-seater sports campus might not be to far away... :rolleyes:
And they might even let Rovers play there! :D

[dynamo kerry]

Yea, if shels manage to pull it off this year, (i doubt it but u never know), that new 16,000 all-seater sports campus might not be to far away... :rolleyes:


who's going to be sitting in this wonderful stadium?

[GavinZac]

who's going to be sitting in this wonderful stadium?

the GAA within 20 years

[lefty]

In reply to the original question i'd say the first of .......never. Shelbourne were well beaten by Depor and i honestly cant see it happening within the next 10 years anyway. It would be a great achievement if Shelbourne made the 3rd Qualifying Round this year, they will be under pressure to make it

[pineapple stu]

That's not true, Sheridan posted last year a list of leagues similar to our own in size that had a team qualify for the champions league and they rarely turn into one team leagues.
Is this (http://foot.ie/showthread.php?t=19785&page=2&pp=20&highlight=trend) the thread you're referring to? (eoinh's list, not Sheridan's) If so, you're conveniently overlooking my refutation of the list, which was never challenged. Many of the smaller leagues on the list haven't had a team qualify for the group stages yet and are already turning into one-team leagues. If Shels (or anyone) qualify for the group stages (which is still a bit away, I think), then the eL will turn into a one-team league, more or less.

Edit - there was a previous thread, will have a root around for it. However, the thread above is pretty much a follow-on/recurrence of the same thread.

[Slash/ED]

Is this (http://foot.ie/showthread.php?t=19785&page=2&pp=20&highlight=trend) the thread you're referring to? (eoinh's list, not Sheridan's) If so, you're conveniently overlooking my refutation of the list, which was never challenged. Many of the smaller leagues on the list haven't had a team qualify for the group stages yet and are already turning into one-team leagues. If Shels (or anyone) qualify for the group stages (which is still a bit away, I think), then the eL will turn into a one-team league, more or less.

Edit - there was a previous thread, will have a root around for it. However, the thread above is pretty much a follow-on/recurrence of the same thread.

That happens though, teams will put together good teams and dominate for a short space of time. It's happened here before, it's happened in the richest leagues in the world. My point was that Shels making the CL wont automatically make this a one team league forever more as some people will have you believe, many leagues similar to ours have had teams qualify for the group stages before and haven't gone on to absolutley dominate afterwards.

[Bald Student]

If Shels qualify for the group stages, then the eL will turn into a one-team league
Is Shels qualify they will get about five million odd (I'm open to correction on the exact figure). If Tolka park is rezoned, Shels will get 20 - 30 million odd, which they could well have five million left over from. So we can test your theory from that.

The five million to be made in europe represents two or three years turnover for Shels, enough for them to field a good squad for a few years if they chose to spend it that way but not enough for them to dominate the league permanantly.

[Bluebeard]

Is Shels qualify they will get about five million odd (I'm open to correction on the exact figure). If Tolka park is rezoned, Shels will get 20 - 30 million odd, which they could well have five million left over from. So we can test your theory from that.

I thought that they didn't actually own Tolka, but held a lease or something on it - clarification please Slash/Ed :confused:

[thejollyrodger]

Personally I think Shels will reach the group stages of the Champions league or UEFA cup in the next 3-5 years.

Europe was only recently the target for the E.L. Once the league changed to summer, the differences in progression were noticable (i.e making it to the 3rd round and only loosing away from home). The FAI et al reckoned making it to the 3rd round would have been another 2 years away !

I can see Shels breaking into the group stages but I dont know if they can manage to do it every year. And it would take more than €5million to make a serious difference in Shels (or any other E.L clubs) finances.

[Slash/ED]

I thought that they didn't actually own Tolka, but held a lease or something on it - clarification please Slash/Ed :confused:

Yes that's true but it's quite complicated, however Shels will get around 20m from the sale of Tolka, according to Ollie. Could be closer to 30 could be around 15 it depends how the rezoning of the land goes apparently.

[Buller]

In reply to the original question i'd say the first of .......never. Shelbourne were well beaten by Depor and i honestly cant see it happening within the next 10 years anyway. It would be a great achievement if Shelbourne made the 3rd Qualifying Round this year, they will be under pressure to make it
Now thats not very optimistic...

[lefty]

Fúck optimism some people on this message board are living in some kind of eircom league dreamworld or else have their heads shoved very far up their own arses. :mad:

Uefa Cup Group Stage maybe within 3 or 5 years, if Hearts can get there it shudnt be 2 far off for some eircom league teams but Champions League Group Stage is a long way off i can bloody well assure you that, at least 10 years anyway.

And i re-iterate that Shels will do well to achieve what they did last Summer this time around. I hope they do but i wouldnt be surprised/annoyed if they didnt. I can see some peoples euro-bubble bursting

[Slash/ED]

Shelbourne were well beaten by Depor

Simply not true, until Victor scored, 150 minutes in, the tie was dead even in fact most of the few chances that had been created went Shels way.

[Buller]

Simply not true, until Victor scored, 150 minutes in, the tie was dead even in fact most of the few chances that had been created went Shels way.
WELL SAID SLASH/ED!!!

[lefty]

I would have put my house on deportivo to win if i owned a house. There we go again people with rose tinted eircom league glasses on. Deportivo didnt bother playing in the first leg and in the second i only remember one clear cut chance for Shels. And im not taking anything away from Shelbournes achievements this year which i can only say were phenomenal but dont get carried away with yourselves lads

[ColinR]

I would have put my house on deportivo to win if i owned a house. There we go again people with rose tinted eircom league glasses on. Deportivo didnt bother playing in the first leg and in the second i only remember one clear cut chance for Shels. And im not taking anything away from Shelbournes achievements this year which i can only say were phenomenal but dont get carried away with yourselves lads

agree, just as shels held deportivo for so long, the icelandlic crowd could quite easily have beaten shels (2 late away goals were the difference remember), just like the maltesse a couple of years ago. had shels not got through on away goals, we would have given shels a similar pasting for embarressing the eL as longford were given.

shels had one good year, the real test is to consistantly good years, then we can talk about them making the step up to the group stages, i think its still a bit premature yet

[lefty]

Finally someone who actually talks sense and sees things for what they are. Totally agree with u Shels could have so easily been knocked out in Qualifying Round 1. Consistency will be the real achievement and they have gambled on it by bringing in so many players.

Cant believe i agree totally with a drogs fan, might have to change my views on Drogheda United :eek: ......actually maybe not!!!

[ColinR]

Cant believe i agree totally with a drogs fan, might have to change my views on Drogheda United :eek: ......actually maybe not!!!

well, i did go to college in ucd ;)

[Slash/ED]

I would have put my house on deportivo to win if i owned a house. There we go again people with rose tinted eircom league glasses on. Deportivo didnt bother playing in the first leg and in the second i only remember one clear cut chance for Shels. And im not taking anything away from Shelbournes achievements this year which i can only say were phenomenal but dont get carried away with yourselves lads


No, you said Shels were 'well beaten' by Deportivo, you were wrong. Why in the name of jaysus would they 'not bother' playing in a champions league qualifyers that if they lost would pretty much cripple their club? What a laod of sh*te.

[pineapple stu]

If Shels qualify they will get about five million odd

But I bet they still "couldn't afford" to pay us for Cawley! :rolleyes: :p

[Buller]

exactly, deportivo had their first team out!

[elroy]

Shels were perhaps lucky in the first round but i dont accept that depor took it handy, it was a major must win for them. If shels had scored in the away they had the best chance of the first half-depor wouldve being in serious trouble.
I do think depor were the better team but by no means as comfortable as some are making out.

Whatever abouth the CL, an eircom league should def be lookin into breakin into the group phases of the uefa cup very soon

[pineapple stu]

Whatever abouth the CL, an eircom league should def be lookin into breakin into the group phases of the uefa cup very soon
Definitely. I think lefty's right in a way when he says that Shels are a good way away yet from getting into the CL group stages - Depor's performance in the group stages shows they were one of the poorest Depor teams in recent years, and possibly by extension one of the weakest teams Shels could have gotten in the draw. To see them up against Man Utd/Real/Inter or even Celtic/Rangers would be interesting.

Target for this year though has to be to make the Third Round again. 2004 was the first time any eL club had gone that far, and Shels have to show it wasn't a fluke. Only when we start getting into the Third Round regularly can we really talk about getting into the groups.

Other upcoming targets -
> Get a bye into the Second Round of the Champions' League (possible I think in four years if each year is as good as last year)
> UEFA group stages have to be looked at - First Round UEFA is poorer than Third Qualifying Round in the CL, so it stands to reason we're more likely to break through here first. You'd hope that at least one, if not both, eL teams in the UEFA can get through the first round though.

[thejollyrodger]

err, maybe we were watching a different game, but the Depor players didnt look so happy at landsdown Road and when Victor(?) scored at the Riazor he was jumping all over the place and so was the manager. They were obviously rattled enough and delighted to get the break through. The Depor coach was quoted as saying that Shels were only a number of years away from qualifying to the group stages of the Champions League.

Shels might have well be playing their home games away from home. If both Depor and Lille were at Tolka we could have had a two wins going to France and the Riazor

Depor did alright against Liverpool this year so I dont know where all this "Depor are muck" is coming from.


As for Lille. Shels did very well against them and they are flying in the French league and UEFA Cup (AFAIK). Shels havent went pro that long, their squad was weaker last year, they had less experience last year. So I expect they can get to the 3rd round again this year.

I have to agree with some people, Shels will probably break into the UEFA Cup sooner than the C.L but that wont be good enough. Champions League group stages is the destination.