EPL Season 2017/8

[OwlsFan]

Rooney back to Everton on a "free transfer". Probably nothing to Man U ok but I suspect a large signing on fee for Wayne.

Don't expect Lukaku to make a huge impact at Man U (could come back to bite me that one) - similar to Wilfried Bony at Man City ?

[DeLorean]

He'll be a bigger 'success' than Bony I suspect.

He'll start, frustrate, divide opinion and score goals!

[OwlsFan]

Apparently he joined Man U because he wanted to play in Europe and had nothing to do with the money. Why didn't he just join Rovers instead?

[DeLorean]

Seeing as Everton are in Europe too, we'll assume he meant the CL :)

[OwlsFan]

Kyle Walker is about to become the world’s most expensive defender and the costliest English player of all time, after Tottenham Hotspur accepted a bid worth £53m from Manchester City - is this not the same Kyle Walker who looked like a tailor's dummy against Iceland? The clubs with money (e.g. the two Manchester clubs) are paying inflated prices for the players they want. And of course there is a premium if he's English. If I heard Walker was signing for Rovers, I'd say not a bad acquisition but nothing more than that. Bizarre...

[DeLorean]

I'd rate him as very good Premier League but that's is nuts. Came across this on Twitter yesterday, the world's most expensive defence:

Kyle Walker - John Stones - David Luiz - Luke Shaw

Seriously, like? Get a grip!


Meanwhile Leonardo Bonucci moves between two Italian giants for £35m!

[OwlsFan]

Ross Barkley wants to leave Everton "for a new challenge" https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2017/0726/893132-koeman-confirms-barkley-heading-for-everton-exit-door/

For "new challenge" read for "a sack load of dosh".

[geysir]

I'd rate him as very good Premier League but that's is nuts. Came across this on Twitter yesterday, the world's most expensive defence:

Kyle Walker - John Stones - David Luiz - Luke Shaw

Seriously, like? Get a grip!


Meanwhile Leonardo Bonucci moves between two Italian giants for £35m!
Italian footballers do prefer to stay at home.

[DeLorean]

Your Sigurdsson post was interesting, Geysir. Would have never thought Swansea would have been treated as a non-English club in that context.

He covered more ground than any other PL player last season. I've always been a fan but would have never thought he'd have topped those kinds of stats.

[geysir]

I meant to post it here but in the end I lost the content of the post in a moment of distraction. Basically two Icelandic clubs that fostered Gylfi's growth before he departed to Reading age 16, have benefitted from the solidarity system set up by Fifa, ie. a small % of Gylfi's transfers to and from Swansea
The transfer to Everton has earned the two clubs, sums of Eur 57K and Eur34K
The solidarity compensation system only kicks in when a player is transferred from a club belonging to one association to a club in another.
Even though Swansea play their football in the same league as Spurs and Everton, they are still a Welsh association club and as such, transfers from Swansea to English clubs are regarded as international transfers.
I never would have reckoned on that.

No doubt we have Sepp to thank for these morsels of egalitarianism and respect.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

http://www.the42.ie/koeman-mourinho-3602907-Sep2017/

What's wrong with what Mourinho said? It's not like he said Everton should finish in the top 4, he said they should target finishing in the top 4. They spent 140m for crying out loud. When Man City and Chelsea started spending those sums of money they immediately solidified top 4 positions and started competing for titles. Let's not forget Martinez and Moyes had Everton threatening to gatecrash the top 4 while spending a fraction of what they spent this summer.

Koeman, such a bottler.

This is the monster you created. Don't complain about not being supported in the transfer market and then temper expectations when people, rightly, expect a prompt return on all that investment.

It's not like Pochettino has a team full of superstars at Spurs.

[DeLorean]

I don't think it's realistic at all, unless a few big clubs have horror seasons.

They had a net spend of around £40m and lost a 30 goal a season striker.

Mourinho had a net spend of around €140m last summer and finished 6th.

United spent big again this summer, as have Manchester City and Chelsea. Arsenal and Liverpool have also strengthened and kept their best players. Tottenham are still in the picture.

Everton also have the much maligned Europa League commitments. I see no reason why they should expect to bridge the gap, they'd be doing okay to finish as high as last season like Koeman says... which is the best of the rest.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Mourinho gave up on finishing in the top 4 in the PL and put all his eggs in the Europa League basket though.

[DeLorean]

He didn't give up on it until he accepted that winning the Europa League was far more likely than finishing in the top four. They were sixth pretty much all season long.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Are Tottenham, Liverpool and Arsenal that much stronger than Everton?

None of them improved their squads that drastically.

Liverpool and Arsenal still have the same problems they did last year.

Spurs arguably don't have as much depth as Everton; Sissoko still gets starts and Janssen was getting game time all of last season.

What's Mourinho supposed to say, that 140m should see Everton directly competing with West Brom and Stoke?

[DeLorean]

I think the 140m thing is misleading. They've lost their main source of goals. Had they kept Lukaku (and to a much lesser extent Deulofeu) and spent 140m on top of that he might have had a point.

Tottenham and Liverpool both spent heavily with the cash generated from the Bale/Suarez sales but it's difficult to replace very important players. Both struggled in the immediate aftermath.


Are Tottenham, Liverpool and Arsenal that much stronger than Everton?

I think so, yes. Arsenal and Liverpool have far more quality offensively, stars Everton could only dream of really (Coutinho, Firminio, Ozil, Sanchez, etc.). Spurs are better all over.

[DannyInvincible]

Good piece here (https://www.patreon.com/posts/14465621) on the inherent racism of Manchester United fans' chant about the size of Lukaku's penis (http://www.irishmirror.ie/sport/soccer/soccer-news/what-romelu-lukaku-song-lyrics-11198911).


...

It was only a couple of years later when some members of the Stretford End sang the racist chant about Emmanuel Adebayor. Of course, the chant doesn’t have the ‘n’ word in it, so people believe that there’s no way it can be racist. That’s because the general understanding of racism in this country is that unless you’re using an explicitly racist slur to someone, you’re not being a racist. The various nuances about race and racism - that oppression can be structural and systemic, not purely personal, and it can be linked to stereotypes that cause wider problems - are ignorantly or deliberately lost and disregarded in order to give bigots the plausible deniability they love to hide behind. It wasn’t a huge number of fans, though, and things didn’t take off as they have this week.

...

But now, United fans have a new chant, about Romelu Lukaku’s supposedly enormous penis. It is plainly racist, reducing Lukaku to a figure to be mocked because of a stereotype that has long been linked to other prejudicial representations of black men as sexually aggressive, to use just one example. Apparently the joke is about his penis, not his race, so it can’t be racist. It is a compliment, if anything, so it can’t be racist. It isn’t offensive in the opinion of some people, so it can’t be racist. There are other more racist chants, so it can’t be racist. It isn’t the biggest problem in racism, so it can’t be racist. It isn’t the biggest problem of any kind in the world, so it can’t be racist. You should stop bringing attention to racism because that just perpetuates racism. None of these arguments stand up to any kind of rigour, and there is a reason for that. They are the desperate claims of people who hate to be called racist more than they hate racism itself.

The Romelu Lukaku chant is racist. It is not hard to grasp. It is not hard to stop doing it.

[DeLorean]

What do you think yourself, Danny? Obviously the big penis thing is silly at best, but is attempted humour based on stereotypes in general to be outlawed, even if it's meant in a complimentary, even affectionate, kind of way?

Netherton's link between a stereotypical black man's big penis and sexual aggressiveness is not something that ever occurred to me I must say. That really takes the lightheartedness out of it if he's correct to make that connection.

United fans seem to go down the nationality/race route quite a bit, previously chanting about Nemanja Vidic coming from Serbia and f**king murdering ya, or Ji-Sung Park eating dogs in his home country. They were both much better than the Lukaku tripe in terms of creativity at least.

[DannyInvincible]

Del; I've posted a response about the Lukaku chant and how to gauge what constitutes "acceptable" humour in a new thread in the current affairs section here (http://foot.ie/threads/225496-The-Lukaku-Chant-Controversy-Can-Stereotype-Based-Humour-Ever-Be-Acceptable) as my reply diverges quite a bit from strict football-talk.

[OwlsFan]

Don't expect Lukaku to make a huge impact at Man U (could come back to bite me that one) - similar to Wilfried Bony at Man City ?

Looks as if I might be wrong.

I do find the Mourinho interviews really tiresome these days. They were vaguely interesting when he first came but they're now as tedious as his voice.

Not many upsets so far this season in the EPL. The money is really rising to the top very quickly. I wonder how long will Leicester give Shakespeare? He's only a game away from dropping in to the bottom 3. Ranieri was dumped in November.

[CraftyToePoke]

I wonder how long will Leicester give Shakespeare? He's only a game away from dropping in to the bottom 3. Ranieri was dumped in November

They have played Arsenal, Man U, Chelsea (facing their own former title winning midfield duo enticed away) and Liverpool in six games so far, and to be fair were in all those games, some crackers too, so maybe a bit of breathing room a while for him. The only real result one could focus on was Huddersfield away, when they drew. Up next they have Bournemouth, West Brom, Swansea & Everton & if they are still down there after that, the questions will start I guess. Their midfielder signed to replace the Chelsea bound lad isn't available yet either as there was a delay on deadline day with his paperwork so James & King are featuring due to this, they are squad players both.

[OwlsFan]

A Comedy of Errors as Shakespeare gets the sack- it was always going to happen.

[CraftyToePoke]

A Comedy of Errors as Shakespeare gets the sack- it was always going to happen.

Last night was unwatchable v WBA & brought the jury in. A little surprised its this early but it was in the post alright.

[NeverFeltBetter]

On Lukaku: watching him against Huddersfield right now, and he's a total passenger. He's lumbering around the final third and barely getting involved. Bit of a lack of service I suppose - United generally are awful - but you'd expect more.Li

Edit: Literally pressed "Post", and he whips in a brilliant cross for Rashford to score. Never mind.

[OwlsFan]

Shock, horror: Sky News was pretty much dedicated to Klopp moaning about the peno given against his team (he seemed to be under the impression that because Liverpool totally dominated the game, the peno should not have been awarded to Everton) and Mourinho complaining about the one his side didn't get from an apparent dive by one of his players. He wasn't asked about Lukaku missing a sitter and City being the better team for long spells. Then of course the banal questions by Geoff (Cliche) Shreeves to Pep Guardiola and to the City players: "Is that the league over now ?" with the stock replies that we're only in December. Why do I watch it ? Masochism perhaps ?

[CraftyToePoke]

Shock, horror: Sky News was pretty much dedicated to Klopp moaning about the peno given against his team (he seemed to be under the impression that because Liverpool totally dominated the game, the peno should not have been awarded to Everton) and Mourinho complaining about the one his side didn't get from an apparent dive by one of his players. He wasn't asked about Lukaku missing a sitter and City being the better team for long spells. Then of course the banal questions by Geoff (Cliche) Shreeves to Pep Guardiola and to the City players: "Is that the league over now ?" with the stock replies that we're only in December. Why do I watch it ? Masochism perhaps ?

Tell me about it. Now there are less of our lads at those EPL clubs, the top ones anyway over recent seasons my interest and need to put up with what passes for coverage of it has dwindled away to recording MOTD & fast forwarding through the discussion parts to the next game. Some weeks not even that.

[OwlsFan]

Watched the Bristol City vs Man United game last night. Enjoyable game particularly the last minute :) I have often bemoaned the standard in the Championship but City played really well and wanted it more than their illustrious rivals (cliche alert). David De Gea has nothing to worry about as his understudy was an accident waiting to happen.

[DeLorean]

I thought they were excellent too, they look confident and composed all through, given the atmosphere and occasion especially. Their two goals were outstanding, two beautifully weighted passes and two brilliant finishes. United's goal was never a free kick in the first place so Mourinho's talk of Bristol City being "lucky" was a bit of a stretch, unsurprising I suppose.

Romero was poor alright, he usually looks steady enough though, all through the Europa campaign last season and any time I've seen him for Argentina. The Bristol City keeper made two really fine saves from Lukaku actually and was a bit unlucky for the goal.

[OwlsFan]

I don't hang round any more for the after match interviews as managers are so myopic. Arsene Wenger led the way and the rest have followed. I can't imagine why Mourinho thought BC were lucky. If Man U had won it would have been interesting all the same that the almost reserve sides of Man City, Man U, Chelsea and Arsenal could make it to the semi-final.

[NeverFeltBetter]

The Derby defeat appears to have destroyed United mentally. So many of their top players are passengers this month. Big clear out could be coming.

[OwlsFan]

£75 million for Virgil van Dijk. I don't know what to say really except Celtic must be happy as they make a few bob out of the deal.

[OwlsFan]

I was delighted when Hughes' gamble of playing a 2nd string XI against Chelsea didn't pay off against Newcastle. To wave the white flag at Chelsea must be very demoralising for supporters (Peadar?) in the hope that the rested players will do better against Newcastle, which of courser they didn't. Do full time professional players need to be rested when every point is vital? There was no resting in the 1970s/80s when only a couple of subs were allowed and yet English teams dominated Europe. The Tinkerman started all this sh*t in England and the sheep followed. It just irritates me.

[DeLorean]

The Tinkerman started all this sh*t in England and the sheep followed. It just irritates me.

He may have brought it to another level but the likes of Ferguson used regularly rotate his team before Ranieri even stepped foot in England. To be fair, the scheduling this Christmas was a bit over the top for a lot of clubs. They all have big squads now and and there often isn't much between the quality of the usual starters and the subs, so keeping the team fresh might be the wise approach. It didn't work out for Stoke but it probably wouldn't have if they went full strength at Chelsea either. I don't think there's much point in comparing it to the 12/13 man squads of the 70s/80s when sports science wasn't even a thing.

[OwlsFan]

So Mark Hughes eventually gets the sack. Won't stop him getting another job though even though his last successful spell was about 10 years ago with Blackburn.

[DeLorean]

The Wales job maybe?

[OwlsFan]

Says he's not interested http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/42609703 No enough dosh I suspect.

[OwlsFan]

Last week Martin Keown branded Sánchez “football’s biggest mercenary”. FGS, just about every footballer is a mercenary - they will go where they are paid the most. They have no loyalty to football clubs and anyone who thinks otherwise is deluded. Booing of former players and managers by fans is moronic. Footballers are paid employees and which one of those fans who boo ex-players would not leave their job if offered twice the salary elsewhere ? Footballers and owners come and go - only the supporters remain. Such his how it is.

[DeLorean]

Suggesting that a player could only possibly go to Manchester United over Manchester City for money alone is a bit of a stretch also. That may well have been the main factor in this case, who truly knows, but does one good half season all of a sudden put Manchester City on such a platform that other clubs shouldn't be able to attract players ahead of them? United have won three trophies in the last year and a half, they've progressed from 6th place last season to 2nd this (so far) and Sanchez will have the confidence that he can improve them further.

They're also a far more high profile club globally and historically, had Sanchez even heard of Manchester City when he was kicking ball around the streets of Chile as a youngster? He didn't really have the best playing experience with Guardiola at Barcelona and he wouldn't be guaranteed his place in their starting line-up right now. As far as I can make out it would have been a much more risky decision to choose City over United, even if the financial rewards had been the same.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Certainly some hysteria over the Sanchez transfer, some of the commentary made it sound like Sanchez was betraying family by not going with Guardiola.

It's a gargantuan wage though, and you wonder how disruptive it might be when other contracts are negotiated. De Gea is in negotiations at the moment I believe: he'd be perfectly entitled (and correct imo) to suggest he's more valuable to the team than Sanchez, and that his wage should reflect that. I suspect Sanchez might not be spending the rest of his career at Old Trafford, and might be very much an RVP-type purchase, meant to propel the team to a league (or more) within a season or two, and then to head off somewhere else.

Also not sure about trading Mkhitarian. He's had an iffy enough season, but he was great last year. Some kind of falling out with Mourinho I suppose?

[DeLorean]

I think a combination of being incredibly inconsistent (when he's poor, he's really poor) and happening to play in a position where United have a lot of options has been his undoing. He was going to drop further still in the pecking order had Sanchez arrived without his departure. He's clearly a talented player and Mourinho owes him a lot for his contribution last season, especially in the Europa League which really turned an otherwise dismal season into a pretty satisfactory one. You would think his style will suit Arsenal and maybe he'll blossom, seems like a good, honest sort.

I think United are claiming that Sanchez is 'only' being paid the same wages as Pogba, whether that's true or not.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Watching Arsenal getting messed around by Man City for the second time in a week. Empty seats (might be the weather though!). Ozil is so bad it's just astonishing to think he was being linked with teams higher in the table only a month ago. Will Wenger last the season? There's been plenty of "This has to be it" moments with Arsenal (that Munich tie last year, I thought that was the end) , but this really has to be it, right?

[CraftyToePoke]

I think for himself, as much as for Arsenal this has to stop now. He isn't going to get his arms around this thing again, its gone from him. Let it go.

Hard to watch someone who was so progressive, innovative etc, and one of a very small few who could put it up to Ferguson's Man U reign, ending up like this.

[osarusan]

Goal of the season contender for Vardy today. Ball over the top from Mahrez from around halfway, dropped over the defender on the edge of the area and he hit it first time, before it bounced, with his weaker foot, into the bottom corner. As Alan Shearer would say, sensational.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Honestly had no idea how rancorous things had gotten at West Ham. Watching the owners being escorted away on MOTD highlights was remarkable, and then the Burnley players letting kids sit in their seats to get away from crowd trouble?

[NeverFeltBetter]

Southampton sack Pellegrino. That's the 9th EPL manager this season. Think the record is 11.

[OwlsFan]

Southampton sack Pellegrino. Any number of water puns come to mind but I'll leave it with he just didn't have the bottle.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Wenger announces he will leave at the end of the season. Out of curiosity, I had a look at EPL season he started. Some almost ancient history there is terms of managers and outcomes. You had Ruud Gullit at Chelsea who won the FA Cup, Martin O'Neill at Leicester who won the League Cup, Joe Kinnear at Wimbledon, Aston Villa captained by Andy Townshend and, of course, Fergie, who won the league with the lowest points total of any champion ever (75). That was also the season Middleborough spent big, lost two cup finals, and were relegated due to a points deduction for cancelling a game where their entire squad was ill or injured!

[OwlsFan]

Wonder where he'll go. Much in demand I suspect. PSG ?

[OwlsFan]

One of his legacies for me at least will be his tirades against decisions which went against his team and how "I didn't see it" was his response for any decisions which favoured Arsenal. They became so tiresome and Klopp is going this way as well.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Klopp's comments at the weekend were bizarre. Blaming the pitch is one thing, but then giving out that it was a "wasted" point for West Brom because they'll inevitably end up being relegated anyway?

I still think things will blow-up for Klopp eventually. He hasn't won a trophy in six years, neither have Liverpool. Obviously the CPL is still a possibility, but if they get past Roma you'd fancy Real or Bayern against them. It's all well and good banging in the goals on occasion and playing football the media fawn over, but without something to back it up, the worm turns: you can see people starting to turn on Pochettino for example.