Realistically.....

[elroy]

It doesnt look like Croke park is gonna be open because they wont get a 2/3s majority. In a way it might be no bad thing, the gaa will a terrible media/public backlash about it and it will spare us having to listen to gaa heads go on about how they saved us from having no stadium and so on.

Plus if it doesnt open this year, I presume its of no use to us then because the fai/irfu will have struck an agreement with a stadium in the UK to stage games for the 2/3 year period.
So realistically are we looking at cardiff or parkhead, i would imagine are the two obvious choices?

[gspain]

Cardiff is anon starter as Wales will also have home games. anyway it is not that easy to get there from here. Limited flights and ferries.

I can't see Celtic Park being used - same issues re limited flights and ferries and potential flashpoints with Rangers fans and potential issues with Scotland playing at home in the same city.

Manchester and/or Liverpool appear to likely options. Much better flight options and the ferries. no other games nearby.

London is another option but same issue with england home games. In fairness to the ex pats who have followed us for years (most of whom appear to live in London) we should at least play one game there.

We don't have to stick to one venue.

[dynamo kerry]

It doesnt look like Croke park is gonna be open because they wont get a 2/3s majority. In a way it might be no bad thing, the gaa will a terrible media/public backlash about it and it will spare us having to listen to gaa heads go on about how they saved us from having no stadium and so on.

Plus if it doesnt open this year, I presume its of no use to us then because the fai/irfu will have struck an agreement with a stadium in the UK to stage games for the 2/3 year period.
So realistically are we looking at cardiff or parkhead, i would imagine are the two obvious choices?


a) if it doesn't pass the general assembly this year, it won't be allowed put forward again for a year or two - same situation as last time.

b) parkhead is a massively unlikely prospect due to security worries. sorry to disappoint.

cardiff or old trafford are my bets.

I'm still not writing off the gaa though,

[dynamo kerry]

Cardiff is anon starter as Wales will also have home games. anyway it is not that easy to get there from here. Limited flights and ferries.

I can't see Celtic Park being used - same issues re limited flights and ferries and potential flashpoints with Rangers fans and potential issues with Scotland playing at home in the same city.

Manchester and/or Liverpool appear to likely options. Much better flight options and the ferries. no other games nearby.

London is another option but same issue with england home games. In fairness to the ex pats who have followed us for years (most of whom appear to live in London) we should at least play one game there.

We don't have to stick to one venue.


london not necessrily the issue as the english play their games in all top stadia - elland road, villa park, old trafford, st. james'

[Hibs4Ever]

It definitely won't be in Glasgow. I thought I heard before that the Welsh FA offered the Millenium Stadium, which would be my choice. I think Anfield is probably the favourite though.

[ger121]

Just wondering how many people does croker hold minus hill 16? UEFA have banned the use of Temporary seating in stadiums and only gave a special derrogation to Lansdowne as it was going to be redevloped. The reason i say this is for two reasons. The possible attendance will be reduced from the 80,000 that the media keep throwing around. Also a whole section of the stadium will be empty which will take away from the atmosphere. I would prefer Cardiff as it holds about as much as Croker minus hill 16, all the stadium will be full and it may actually be easier to get a ticket for the big games then it would be to in Dublin.

[Peadar]

Just wondering how many people does croker hold minus hill 16?

69,500

I think the stadium in Cardiff is too big.
How do we expect to fill 72,000 seats in Cardiff!?

I was down near Ashburton Grove at the weekend and had a look through the fence at the new Emirates Staduim (http://www.arsenal.com/emiratesstadium/?qs=dynamic&nav=emirates%20stadium) where Arsenal will play from the summer of 2006. It's looking very impressive already.
It will have a capacity of 60,000
By that time the capacity of Old Trafford is expected to be 76,000 and the new Wembley will be around 90,000.
The capacity at Anfield is 45,362 but it would make my skin crawl if I had to go there for Ireland "home" games.

[beautifulrock]

Agree that Anfield/Millenium is the most likely, but how about the new Arsenal Stadium, it will be open by then and most likely they would be very happy with the extra revenue,. Very easy to access from both Heathrow and Stansted. I also would not rule out Croke Park just yet

[Eirambler]

How about Murrayfield?

Easy to get to from all over Ireland (flights from Dublin, Cork and Galway)
60,000 plus capacity
No other international soccer teams in play in the city
Large Irish community

I think it would be a great spot (obviously it would suit me!) but havent heard anyone with any influence mention it yet.

[Peadar]

havent heard anyone with any influence mention it yet.


Wasn't it ruled out for one reason or another?

[dynamo kerry]

How about Murrayfield?

Easy to get to from all over Ireland (flights from Dublin, Cork and Galway)
60,000 plus capacity
No other international soccer teams in play in the city
Large Irish community

I think it would be a great spot (obviously it would suit me!) but havent heard anyone with any influence mention it yet.


greqat idea. suits me too :D

[BaZmO*]

I think Anfield is probably the favourite though.

Yeah, I think that's the definite favourite. We've played there already.

And if not Anfield, then the Millenium Stadium.

B.

[gspain]

london not necessrily the issue as the english play their games in all top stadia - elland road, villa park, old trafford, st. james'

Wembley will be ready by May 2006. It will host all the big home games again then.

[Dawn_Run]

Do we know for sure what date Lansdown is closing?

[Eire06]

Do we know for sure what date Lansdown is closing?


Ya I've a feeling that if we get turned down by the GAA board they'll hold off on the lansdowne redevelopment till the majority of the games are over...

If not they are welcome in Terryland Park :rolleyes: :D

[Peadar]

Do we know for sure what date Lansdown is closing?


Aren't they doing it section by section like Croke Park?

[monutdfc]

Aren't they doing it section by section like Croke Park?
No, the whole playing field is being moved so there's no question of doing it in sections.
No idea when it is due to start. I've heard the IRFU have their funding lined up, but I don't think the FAI do (could be wrong), but has it got all the planning permissions etc?

[Peadar]

I've just been looking at the Arup (http://www.arup.com/europe/projects.cfm) website but they've got no mention of Lansdowne Road in their projects, despite the fact they're the consultants behind it and it was said to be finished in 2008.
Typical! :rolleyes:

[KR's Post]

Manchester and/or Liverpool appear to likely options. Much better flight options and the ferries. no other games nearby.

.
Cant play in Manchester. England are playing all there HOME qualifiers there..... ;)

[Peadar]

This thing could run for years yet.

Taken from the Lansdowne Road Stadium Development Company (http://www.lrsdc.ie/) website.


Once the Design and Project Management
Teams have developed a design, they will
then prepare the submission that will finally
go to Dublin City Council seeking planning
permission. It is anticipated that the earliest
a planning application will be made is at the
end of 2005. A full Environmental Impact
Study, will be undertaken as part of the
Planning Application.

[Dawn_Run]

Cant play in Manchester. England are playing all there HOME qualifiers there..... ;)

Oriel Park it is then :)

[stojkovic]

Anfield is the best option in terms of travel and the players would have no problem with playing there.

The most important factor is Anfields size (c45000). It is perfect.
We will not fill Old Trafford, Millenium, Murrayfield, Celtic Park or the new Wembley. Maybe for one big game we would. But a contract maybe done for all games to make it viable for the host club.

The only other viable option the would meet the above two criteria is Highbury. But would that still be standing then. Probably not.

[Peadar]

The only other viable option the would meet the above two criteria is Highbury. But would that still be standing then. Probably not.

Parts of it are "listed" so they'll be standing for many more years to come.
After Arsenal move the plan is to turn Highbury into affordable housing.
Apartments that will run around the pitch area which will be lanscaped.

The City of Manchester stadium would be far better than Anfield.
48,000 capacity is ideal.

[stojkovic]

Parts of it are "listed" so they'll be standing for many more years to come.
After Arsenal move the plan is to turn Highbury into affordable housing.
Apartments that will run around the pitch area which will be lanscaped.

The City of Manchester stadium would be far better than Anfield.
48,000 capacity is ideal.
That'll suit the FAI.

[elroy]

Does anyone else not feel that a 50000 seater lansdowne is a bit on the small side for us???

[gspain]

Cant play in Manchester. England are playing all there HOME qualifiers there..... ;)

ARE is correct. Will is not. Wembley will be ready next year for the 2006 FA Cup final and 2008 & 2010 qualifiers.

Hence we can go to Manchester and/or Liverpool. 4 top quality stadia there to choose from.

[Peadar]

Does anyone else not feel that a 50000 seater lansdowne is a bit on the small side for us???

In a word, No!


Wembley will be ready next year for the 2006 FA Cup final and 2008 & 2010 qualifiers.

I was looking at it the other week.
It's unreal!
The most impressive stadium we're likely to see in this part of the world for a long time.

[Dawn_Run]

Does anyone else not feel that a 50000 seater lansdowne is a bit on the small side for us???

Yep, totally agree. Typical Irish - go half way. Some will argue that it is sufficient. I'd like to see them build a stadium that will put us on the stadia map of europe. A stadium that will intimidate opposition, a a venue for multiple sports, a stadium that would qualify to hold euro championship matches should we go in for it with the Scots and Welsh. Why settle for second best? Anyone agree?

[Stuttgart88]

Does anyone else not feel that a 50000 seater lansdowne is a bit on the small side for us???
No, definitely not. Let's not kid ourselves as to how many people actually would go to every game. At a push there are two big home games a season, plus all the friendlies and the lower seeded teams. Most of these would struggle to sell out even a 50k seater.

Anyway, the size of the new stadium is dictated by planning permission. Both the north and south stands will have to be single-tier because there are height restrictions.

In the sad event we do have to play in the UK, Anfield would be my preferred stadium. It was perfrect for the play-off in '95, a really great football venue.

[Peadar]

A stadium that will intimidate opposition

A half full stadium wont intimidate many.
We struggle to fill Lansdowne for most of our games as it is.


a stadium that would qualify to hold euro championship matches should we go in for it with the Scots and Welsh

The new Lansdowne Road will have to meet UEFA/FIFA regulations and will therefore be suitable to stage a European Championship game.

The bids for Euro 2012 have already been submitted so the next chance for a joint bid would be Euro 2016.
I've heard, more than once, that UEFA want to avoid joint bids where possible to reduce the organisational issues assocaited with such bids.

[elroy]

Heres hoping the bigger stadium will mean more block blocking seats becoming available

[NeilMcD]

Struggle to fill Landsdowne, When was the last time we struggled to fill it for a qualifier. To be honest I think a 50,000 to 60,000 capacity is the best. But you cant say we struggle to fill it when all compeitive games are sell outs. And we had 47,000 at the Portugal friendly.

[SÓC]

Struggle to fill Landsdowne, When was the last time we struggled to fill it for a qualifier.

Thats grand but 15,000 extra bums on seats will be needed for games against the likes of the Faroes &Cypress of this world.

[NeilMcD]

Was it not full for the game against Cyprus I think it was. If you could easily get a ticket for games people would go to Cypurs esp if it meant you have a block booking system. If we get a 50,000 seater stadium we will have 35,000 already on the block booking system. All we then need is another 10 to 15,000 block bookers to join who willl be promised tickets to both small and big games. I know lots of people out there that would sign up to a system that woudl guarantee them tickets for all matches. Also if we have 50,000 at a game and the stadium holds 60,000 is no bad thing, it does not take that much away from an atosphere. I think 60,000 would have been ideal but I can live with 50,000.

[Eire06]

If they were struggling to fill it they could put on more school schemes.. Give schools a specific area and a load of tickets for cheap if not free.. they won't be long fillin it then...

I just can't wait to get a stadium where we can really get the atmosphere going.. A lot in fairness do try to get things going and it just doesn't work in Lansdowne and its not all the 'suits' fault the stadium is too broken up and open..

[dynamo kerry]

If they were struggling to fill it they could put on more school schemes.. Give schools a specific area and a load of tickets for cheap if not free.. they won't be long fillin it then...

I just can't wait to get a stadium where we can really get the atmosphere going.. A lot in fairness do try to get things going and it just doesn't work in Lansdowne and its not all the 'suits' fault the stadium is too broken up and open..

disagree - great atmosphere at rugby games and quite a few of the irish games have been good at worst.

too many people who don't go to games reularly if you ask me. also a few too many snobs about.

[jbyrne]

dare i say it..... keane says in his book that the atmosphere on big match days in lansdowne is one of the best hes ever experienced. even better than big european nights in old trafford. how good/bad the atmosphere is depends on the importance of the game more than anything. we've proved before (eg. v Holland '01) that we can create an atmosphere second to none so heres hoping for more of the same come our big games later this year

[Peadar]

disagree - great atmosphere at rugby games

You can't compare rugby with football.
In football there has to be constant chanting, singing, booing etc.
If there isn't, then people say the atmosphere was poor.
At rugby there's usually just cheers, a few bars of The Fields and the odd euphony, cacophony in some cases, of "Oirland, Oirland, Oirland..."

I'm really looking forward to Israel because people who travel that far always want to sing. I'll bet that the 1,500 odd travelling fans create a massive atmosphere.

It doesn't matter whether the stadium is 40,000 or 80,000 capacity if you're not going to fill it with enough people willing to contribute to the atmosphere.

[Stuttgart88]

disagree - great atmosphere at rugby games

Often, but not always.

Anyway, here's an interesting article on the subject by Gerry Thornley. I think most of the same points apply to the soccer matches too:

It's time to reinvent the Lansdowne roar
By Gerry Thornley


On Rugby: Wistfully recalling halcyon days of yore probably goes with the territory of sports columns, but accompanying those sepia-tainted clips from the dim and distant past, or even those more colourful and contemporary repeats of say Michael Kiernan's Triple Crown and Championship-clinching drop goal 20 years ago, there was the distinct impression that Lansdowne Road was a good deal noisier back then, writes Gerry Thornley.

Those were the days when the great and the good and the unwashed all shuffled along to Lansdowne Road together. Back then, of course, an estimated 45,000-plus of the then 52,000 capacity would have also been Irish supporters, whereas latterly it is estimated that upwards of 10,000-plus English fans infiltrate Lansdowne Road (with a reduced capacity of 48,000) on the days of Six Nations' matches involving the two countries.

It's probably too trite to say this was the inevitable by-product of Irish clubs having to sell off their inherited crown jewels - namely match-day tickets - to the highest bidder. When England come to town, their supporters and/or the corporate market are invariably the highest bidders. The IRFU's surveys indicate that around 20,000 English supporters actually travel to Dublin on the weekend of a Six Nations' match between the two countries at Lansdowne Road, (even though their official allocation is 4,800 and barely half of them might be able to get their paws on a ticket). It's no wonder therefore, that more and more tickets, previously passed on to club members from generation to generation, go abroad and/or to the corporate sector.

As is the case with all professional sports, corporate entertainment has become a necessary evil. It helps fund professionalism as well as maintaining the sport's development. At Lansdowne Road, the phenomenon actually predates Kiernan's drop goal, corporate hospitality having being introduced in 1984 to help build the reconstructed East Stand.

The IRFU themselves will only have about 1,000 in their corporate hospitality tent on the back pitch at Lansdowne Road, and estimates put the total number at around 4,000, although like the exact numbers of English supporters in the ground, it is impossible to gauge accurately. And ultimately it probably is a bit too easy, and even clichéd, to blame any perceived dilution of the Lansdowne Road 'roar' on the emergence of corporate entertainment.

Yet the atmosphere at the old ground on Six Nations' days sometimes pales by comparison to the atmosphere generated at the ground on other occasions or by Irish supporters abroad. Needless to say, when given the chance, Munster and their Red Army provided the prime example when hosting Wasps in the Heineken Cup semi-final last season. Clearly a small percentage of the estimated 45,000 Munster supporters (not all of them necessarily from Munster either) who travelled to Lansdowne Road that day are fortunate enough or inclined enough to obtain tickets for Six Nations games.

However, it appeared that every single one of them bore the colours that day and shouted and sang themselves hoarse. They also arrived early, and began generating an atmosphere long before kick-off.

When Lawrence Dallaglio, who had been to Lansdowne Road for the Grand Slam winner-takes-all shoot-out the previous season, emerged from the dressing-rooms beneath the West Stand for the pre-match warm-up he was visibly taken back. Perhaps it's best not to repeat his exact comment overhead by one nearby and eager wag on witnessing the sea of red before him (with a nest of Wasps amongst them), suffice to say that the first word to emanate from the slightly stunned Wasps captain was "holy" and the second one wasn't "Mary".

Murrayfield last week was also a reminder of how much more colourful and vocal Irish supporters tend to be away from home. One thinks back to the pool decider between Australia and Ireland at the 2003 World Cup. Again, the estimated 15,000 Irish fans who were there that day generated more green and atmosphere than is generally the case at Lansdowne Road. It made you wish you could transplant them back to Dublin, ideally next Sunday.

Perhaps this is understandable when you've either gone to the trouble of travelling abroad or you're an ex-pat. Perhaps you're more inclined to wear your Irishness on your sleeve. Perhaps this is true of any national sporting identity abroad. Perhaps also, though, truer fans are more inclined to travel abroad occasionally (be it Ireland or the provinces in Europe) because it is so difficult to obtain tickets for Lansdowne Road Six Nations' games.

Of course, there are still some cracking days at the old ground, even if this tends to support the perception that the crowd has increasingly become more reactive than pro-active. Certainly there was little wrong with the atmosphere when Ireland denied England the Grand Slam in Lansdowne Road four years ago, or when the sides went toe-to-toe in the first half of the winner-takes-all shoot-out two seasons ago.

Maybe Martin Johnson's pre-match stand-off with officials and refusal to adhere to the stated agreement for the presidential greeting prior to the national anthems helped galvanise Lansdowne Road as well. There have been plenty of other cracking days too, not least when Jake White also provoked the home ground into near apoplectic rage over his pre-match observations about the merits of frontline Irish and South African players last November.

Ultimately, if it's a cracking good game, there'll be a cracking good atmosphere and the chances are that a host of socio-economic and cultural factors are at work here beyond the remit of a humble sports hack. Back in 1985 or before, if memory serves, the two home games in the Six Nations shone like beacons in darkest mid-winter.

Leaving aside the supposed wonders of the Celtic Tiger, we're comparatively spoilt nowadays, in sporting terms anyway. This week alone there will be Champions League football tonight and tomorrow night, a double serving of Six Nations on Saturday and a host of other televised treats.

But, in the heel of the hunt, if the Munster-Wasps game could generate such an atmosphere, why can't Irish supporters for a game against England? C'mon Lansdowne Road, to paraphrase both Bob Marley and Mick Doyle, lively up yourselves.

[dynamo kerry]

friendly match = crap game usually = no effort from the crowd

big game= tense stuff = better than 50:50 chance of good atmosphere.

murrayfield last week was good, very good in fact. but it wasn't anywhere near as good as Ireland V Holland , portugal, romania etc.

of course it's going to be crap when andorra et al are in town. remeber the andorra game? rain, 1-0 down after 10 minutes, half the stadium empty. crap wasn't it? Even though the only people who turned up were the ones who turned up everytime and usualy sang their hearts out.

its got more to it than just the people.

[Stuttgart88]

friendly match = crap game usually = no effort from the crowd

big game= tense stuff = better than 50:50 chance of good atmosphere.

Agreed, and I have made the same point in another thread. At a friendly game I'm more interested in picking the details of players' performances. At a big game I just want a result. I think too much is made of the flat atmosphere at "less important" games.

That said, the Faroes game in October had a good atmosphere. The more that's at stake the better the noise, and for a big game I think you've probably underestimated the chance of a good atmosphere.

However, I think Thornley is right when he says that crowds these days tend to be reactive rather than proactive, hence the lack of certainty of a good atmosphere, as you point out. I also think he's right that we are inclined to "make more of our Irishness" when travelling for a game.

[bitored]

Anfield is the best option in terms of travel and the players would have no problem with playing there.
Thought I saw somewhere that Liverpool have got plans to build a new stadium. Surely if Lansdowne's redevelopment doesn't start 'til late 2006 and takes 3 to 4 years then we'll have to come up with an alternative because I'm sure Liverpool will have moved by 2010 and Anfield will be an apartment block or shopping centre or whatever.