Manchester atrocity

[KrisLetang]

Danny here are some new stats on migrant crime:

https://heatst.com/world/report-sex-crimes-by-german-migrants-double-in-one-year/

[DannyInvincible]

Danny here are some new stats on migrant crime:

https://heatst.com/world/report-sex-crimes-by-german-migrants-double-in-one-year/

What's your point exactly?

If you're trying, once again, to portray sex crime as a "Muslim immigration problem" - which is the impression I'm getting - then see this post in the Brexit thread where I previously dealt with that grossly misleading depiction specifically: http://foot.ie/threads/213443-Brexit-The-End-of-the-United-Kingdom?p=1919675&viewfull=1#post1919675

That post was actually in reply to something dubious you yourself had posted then too, although, for whatever reason, you declined to respond to the points and questions I'd posed...

Can I also encourage you to read this piece about what happened in Cologne during the 2015-into-2016 New Year's Eve celebrations?: https://thebaffler.com/latest/cologne-rape-muslim-refugees


Opportunistic proponents of anti-refugee sentiment love to accuse their critics of refusing to face facts at times like this, so let’s be clear: what happened in Cologne on New Year’s Eve was shocking, brutal, and unusual. When British MP Jess Phillips compared the attacks to a regular night out in her hometown of Birmingham, she was fairly criticized for downplaying their severity. Multiple instances of gang rape occurring in a small geographical area within the space of one night is not, in actual fact, normal in Birmingham. Nor is it normal in any other European city, town, or village. Equally, though, it is not normal in Algeria, Morocco, or any of the other countries the attackers originated from. Sexual violence on that kind of scale rarely occurs outside of war zones, where systematic rape is often used as a weapon.

Though the Cologne attacks were undeniably exceptional in terms of number, nothing about the nature of the crimes was alien to contemporary Europe. There was no offense committed by migrant men in Cologne that hasn’t also been committed by white European men on countless occasions. White men have planned and carried out brutal, sadistic gang rapes. They’ve abducted and tortured women. White men have raped babies, children, disabled people, and the elderly. In Austria, a white man held his own daughter captive for twenty-four years in a basement dungeon, physically and sexually abusing her and impregnating her several times.

What’s more, the problem of sexual violence is endemic to every European society. In Germany, approximately 15 percent of women report that they’ve experienced rape or sexual assault. In England and Wales, the figure is one in five. Given that a significant proportion of the European population believes that women deserve to be raped or molested if they engage in ordinary activities like drinking beer, flirting, or wearing mini skirts—some of the same behaviors the West holds up as signs of its liberation—it seems particularly absurd to suggest that sexual violence is some kind of foreign cultural import.

A certain level of cognitive dissonance is required to view rape as a problem of Muslim cultures while simultaneously failing to recognize its pervasiveness in your own society. Though the men responsible for the Cologne attacks make up only a tiny fraction of the total number of refugees and Muslim migrants currently living in Germany, they’re thought of as representative of a homogeneous group. In contrast, no matter how common sexual violence by white perpetrators is, white sex offenders are always seen as individuals, and will never be understood as a negative reflection on the white population as a whole.

As Abi Wilkinson points out, anti-Muslim and anti-refugee advocates often gallantly claim to enjoy confronting "the truth" and "difficult questions", so how about this one: Why don't you admit that many of the faults you appear to be ascribing to other cultures are equally a part of our own Western culture? If you want to have the debate and discuss difficult questions, let's not shy away from it.

[Charlie Darwin]

French police believe this was a botched robbery: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/breaking-four-injured-molotov-cocktail-10606790
Go away with your facts, Danny. I'm going to ignore this and bang on about immigrants some more and I suggest everybody else does too.

[KrisLetang]

Uh...the article says the police didn't comment on the motive behind the attack.

[DannyInvincible]

Uh...the article says the police didn't comment on the motive behind the attack.

As mentioned in the Mirror's article, French journalist Clément Lanot‏ reported (https://twitter.com/ClementLanot/status/873997160639082498) from the scene - with police, fire and emergency services present and standing next to him (see one of the numerous photos that he tweeted below) - that it was a botched robbery.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DCEPxqtXYAAGiM5.jpg

He tweeted that the fire was linked to a "braquage qui a mal tourné", which literally means a "hold-up/stick-up that went wrong".

News.com.au also reported (http://www.news.com.au/world/molotov-cocktail-thrown-into-paris-restaurant-after-failed-robbery-attempt/news-story/611ef1329910d77057fb225adcb6603f) that "a molotov cocktail [was] thrown among guests at a Paris restaurant, injuring 12, after staff foiled a robbery attempt".

The attempted robbery has been reported as a fact. I'd assumed then that that would have been the thinking of police too, considering they were clearly at the scene, even if they haven't publicly speculated as to the reason for the robbery. Perhaps my assumption was incorrect and police aren't sure if it was a robbery attempt. I don't think that's very likely based on what I've read about the incident, but, if so, maybe I should have been more circumspect and should have just said instead that the incident was thought by those at the scene, or at least by one journalist at the scene, to be a botched robbery.

Anyway, the important point is that there's been no suggestion that it was explicitly politically-motivated or related to extremist Islamism, which is what I thought you might have been implying by posting news of the incident in this thread. Indeed, News.com.au stated that "[h]eavily armed police were among the responders, but the attack was soon established not to be terror related".

[Charlie Darwin]

Sounds like terrorism then alright. Sorry, as you were.

[Charlie Darwin]

As mentioned in the Mirror's article, French journalist Clément Lanot‏ reported (https://twitter.com/ClementLanot/status/873997160639082498) from the scene - with police, fire and emergency services present and standing next to him (see one of the numerous photos that he tweeted below) - that it was a botched robbery.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DCEPxqtXYAAGiM5.jpg

He tweeted that the fire was linked to a "braquage qui a mal tourné", which literally means a "hold-up/stick-up that went wrong".

News.com.au also reported (http://www.news.com.au/world/molotov-cocktail-thrown-into-paris-restaurant-after-failed-robbery-attempt/news-story/611ef1329910d77057fb225adcb6603f) that "a molotov cocktail [was] thrown among guests at a Paris restaurant, injuring 12, after staff foiled a robbery attempt".

The attempted robbery has been reported as a fact. I'd assumed then that that would have been the thinking of police too, considering they were clearly at the scene, even if they haven't publicly speculated as to the reason for the robbery. Perhaps my assumption was incorrect and police aren't sure if it was a robbery attempt. I don't think that's very likely based on what I've read about the incident, but, if so, maybe I should have been more circumspect and should have just said instead that the incident was thought by those at the scene, or at least by one journalist at the scene, to be a botched robbery.

Anyway, the important point is that there's been no suggestion that it was explicitly politically-motivated or related to extremist Islamism, which is what I thought you might have been implying by posting news of the incident in this thread. Indeed, News.com.au stated that "[h]eavily armed police were among the responders, but the attack was soon established not to be terror related".
From what I've read, it wasn't a physical molotov cocktail - they walked in fired a tear gas canister then doused the bar in petrol before lighting it. There's reports of it being a botched robbery and also speculation it was a punishment attack by a local gang.

No suspicions of terrorism expressed by anyone through. Except Americans, who always seem to know more than the rest of us.

[CraftyToePoke]

Except Americans, who always seem to know more than the rest of us.

You gonna take this sh*t from him LeTang ?

[Charlie Darwin]

Don't even get me started on Limerickians...

[CraftyToePoke]

There once was a woman named Alice
Who used a dynamite stick as a phallus.
They found her vagina
Up in North Carolina,
And the rest of poor Alice in Dallas.

[KrisLetang]

How xenophobic against those poor Americans you all have become lads. Very sad and disheartening. Against everything Foot.ie has ever stood for. Paul O'Shea would be ashamed of you God Rest his soul.

Post Office won't go into high immigration area due to safety concerns:
https://heatst.com/world/danish-post-office-suspends-deliveries-to-immigration-hotspot-drivers-too-scared-to-go-there/

[KrisLetang]

And: The Tower fire was revenge.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9LexAusBQk

[Charlie Darwin]

When did this thread just become about immigrants?

[tetsujin1979]

Caveat: One time Rather showed up for work with a black eye. He claimed a "deranged maniac" came up to him out of nowhere and shouted "What's the frequency Kenneth" and punched him in the face. REM wrote a song about it. He was terrible at lying.
He might be terrible at lying, but the assault was proven, and a man arrested for it, in 1997: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Rather#.22Kenneth.2C_what_is_the_frequency.3F. 22

In 1997, a TV critic writing in the New ​York Daily News (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Daily_News) solved the mystery, publishing a photo of the alleged assailant, William Tager, who received a  12 1⁄2-to-25-year prison sentence for killing NBC stagehand Campbell Montgomery outside The Today Show (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Today_(NBC_program)) studio in 1994. Rather confirmed the story: "There's no doubt in my mind that this is the person." New York District Attorney Robert M. Morgenthau said, "William Tager's identity as the man who attacked Mr. Rather was established in the course of an investigation by my office." Tager claimed he thought television networks were beaming signals into his brain. When he murdered the stagehand, Tager was trying to force his way into a NBC studio with a weapon, in order to find out the frequency the networks were using to attack him, so that he could block it. Tager was paroled in October 2010 and is believed to be living in New York City

[KrisLetang]

That was definitely the guy who killed the stage hand but I doubt he was the one who punched DR....supposedly it was an angry husband. Don't even get me started on Morgenthau.

[DannyInvincible]

Post Office won't go into high immigration area due to safety concerns:
https://heatst.com/world/danish-post-office-suspends-deliveries-to-immigration-hotspot-drivers-too-scared-to-go-there/

Finley Peter Dunne once said that the job of good journalism was to afflict the comfortable and comfort the afflicted. This sort of gutter journalism is just dressed-up immigrant-bashing. I would suggest that crime and safety concerns have most likely arisen primarily due to inequality issues within Danish society - or due to the poverty, unemployment and sense of alienation experienced by the inhabitants (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vollsmose#Description) of that area in particular, in other words - rather than some inherent moral or cultural failing on the part of demonised immigrants who happen to make up a significant proportion of the population in the poverty-stricken area most likely on account of their marginalisation and exclusion from the Danish social and economic mainstream. Inequality, poverty and alienation are direct causes of higher petty crime rates.

Just scrutinising the details of this story a little closer, I note that Postnord took the decision (https://www.thelocal.dk/20170613/danish-post-service-refuses-to-enter-neighbourhood-due-to-threats-harassment) not to deliver post in Vollsmose due to two of their delivery workers having been threatened and one of their vans broken into. I haven't even seen any evidence to suggest immigrants were responsible for the threats or the break-in. Not that that would justify tarring all immigrants with the same brush anyway.


And: The Tower fire was revenge.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9LexAusBQk

An understandably angry member of the public is vox popped and engages in some impulsive (and admittedly paranoid) conspiracy theorising after an utterly disgraceful and politically-preventable tragedy. What's your point? Are her comments really that noteworthy?

[Charlie Darwin]

Several people injured after a van ploughed into Muslims observing Ramadan outside a mosque in Finsbury Park in Jeremy Corbyn's constituency: http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-40322960

I assume the usual suspects must have encountered internet trouble on their way to post this so I've done them the liberty.

[peadar1987]

KrisLetang, as the others have said, there is no indication that the "no-go" for the postal service in Denmark is anything to do with immigration.

You might be interested to have a look at these google search results: https://www.google.com/search?q=fire+brigade+attacked+dublin&rlz=1C1CHFX_en-GBGB567GB567&oq=fire+brigade+attacked+dublin&aqs=chrome..69i57.5465j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

The fire brigade have a major problem with being called out and attacked by youths who are overwhelmingly white and Irish.

Certain bridges over the M50 in Dublin have had to be retroactively covered in mesh, because white Irish people were throwing stones into 120km/h traffic and causing a threat to life.

The common factor is almost always social deprivation and alienation, not Islam, or any other religion.

[DannyInvincible]

In Derry and Belfast, even ambulances tending to patients have been pelted with missiles and ambulance crews have been abused whilst on duty: https://www.derrynow.com/news/ambulance-comes-attack-galliagh-today/139418

It's something that has been happening for years: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/360831.stm

Such instances of anti-social behaviour have absolutely nothing to do with immigration or Islam, considering those engaged in such behaviour locally are white Irish (or white British). As Peadar says, it's social deprivation and alienation that fuels it.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Forget the north, that happens here. Bus Eireann stopped a route going down the Hyde Road in Limerick a few years ago because of "anti-social" attacks from local morons.

[Charlie Darwin]

Peadar and Danny have built quite a convincing case that we need to stop immigration from the northside and Derry.

[KrisLetang]

it's social deprivation and alienation that fuels it.

How can a (largely) self segregating society say they feel sad or violent about alienation? I was listening to Mark Steyn guest host for Rush on the radio last week. He said the vibrant Jewish and Gay communities of East London were run out by Muslim communities. Is there any truth to that? Really asking anyone but Danny BC I already know his answer. Muslim countries seem largely self segregated. To say the least. Isn't it fairly obvious the trend tends to continue when they move to the West? There is a huge problem with the Somali community in Minnesota...they don't like gay people and are harassing them. MSM is trying desperately to keep the lid down on it. But there are videos out.

[backstothewall]

How can a (largely) self segregating society say they feel sad or violent about alienation? I was listening to Mark Steyn guest host for Rush on the radio last week. He said the vibrant Jewish and Gay communities of East London were run out by Muslim communities. Is there any truth to that? Really asking anyone but Danny BC I already know his answer. Muslim countries seem largely self segregated. To say the least. Isn't it fairly obvious the trend tends to continue when they move to the West? There is a huge problem with the Somali community in Minnesota...they don't like gay people and are harassing them. MSM is trying desperately to keep the lid down on it. But there are videos out.

Christ. Where do you start with this nonsense?

[DannyInvincible]

How can a (largely) self segregating society say they feel sad or violent about alienation? I was listening to Mark Steyn guest host for Rush on the radio last week. He said the vibrant Jewish and Gay communities of East London were run out by Muslim communities. Is there any truth to that? Really asking anyone but Danny BC I already know his answer.

What were you expecting me to say? Do you actually expect anyone else to say anything other than "no", considering Mark Steyn was so obviously talking total baloney?


Muslim countries seem largely self segregated. To say the least. Isn't it fairly obvious the trend tends to continue when they move to the West? There is a huge problem with the Somali community in Minnesota...they don't like gay people and are harassing them. MSM is trying desperately to keep the lid down on it. But there are videos out.

What do you mean when you say Muslim society and Muslim countries are "largely self-segregating"? Like how Zionist Jews have created a Jewish state in Israel, you mean?

When migrants/refugees move to a new country generally, they're naturally in a rather vulnerable and precarious position given their general lack of social, cultural, political and economic roots or connections in that new country. Thus, it is entirely common for them to concentrate together in higher numbers for security, safety, solidarity and to maintain a sense of community. Grouping together is a means of mitigating marginalisation and potential alienation, although it doesn't necessarily prevent the experience of such either. Of course, this doesn't mean that Muslim migrants or refugees can't or don't want to integrate, nor does it mean mutual respect and compromise aren't possible.

This phenomenon isn't something that is unique to Muslims either. There are areas in the UK - Kilburn in London, for example - that are historically considered to be "Irish areas". There are other areas in the UK historically regarded as "Jewish areas". Don't you have the same along the eastern US seaboard with "Irish areas" and "Italian areas", for example?

Muslim attitudes in relation to homosexuality are complex (http://religionnews.com/2016/06/17/muslim-attitudes-about-lbgt-are-complex-and-far-from-universally-anti-gay/), but do you think homophobia is a problem that is unique to Islam and Muslims? Doesn't the Catholic Church too regard homosexual acts to be sinful? Far-right white nationalist groups also often express (http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2015/08/13/the-kkk-issues-plea-for-members-to-kill-gay-people/) profoundly homophobic views.

[DannyInvincible]

An interesting piece on the largely-ignored (suppressed?) voice of Salman Abedi's sister when it has come to the mainstream British media's "analysis" of why the Manchester Arena attack happened: https://www.peacenews.info/node/8747/salman-abedi%E2%80%99s-disappearing-sister


While there was a lot of confident speculation [as to why the massacre happened] by people who never met Salman Abedi, there is one person who has spoken up who definitely knew Abedi well:


‘Abedi’s sister, Jomana Abedi, said her brother was kind and loving and that she was surprised by what he did this week. She said she thought he was driven by what he saw as injustices. “I think he saw children – Muslim children – dying everywhere, and wanted revenge. He saw the explosives America drops on children in Syria, and he wanted revenge,” she said. “Whether he got that is between him and God.”’

This quote was given to the Wall St Journal and published on 25 May under the headline: ‘Manchester Bomber Believed Muslims Were Mistreated, Sought Revenge’. It’s possible that Jomana Abedi is wrong about what motivated her brother. What is not in doubt is that her explanation (not a justification) remains the single best piece of publicly-available evidence about Salman Abedi’s state of mind when he carried out mass murder at the Manchester Arena. How did the British mainstream media handle this important piece of information about the Manchester attack?

...

In this case, what we find is that Jomana Abedi’s evidence has been reported in the British press – and it has also effectively been suppressed. On the face of it, you might have expected this startling and newsworthy story to become part of the conversation about the Manchester attack. Far from it. What we find, repeatedly, is that her statement is often buried at the end of a story; it is noted casually; and it has been mentioned only once or twice most of the elite newspapers.

I was totally unaware of her words until I came across this piece a short while ago.