If Croker is opened up... [Archive]

Slash/ED

16/02/2005, 5:42 PM

...What happens for the rest of this campaign?

While when Lansedown is being rebuilt Croker would, if opened, be a fantastic ground to play in and would beat the hell out of doing a Shamrock Rovers on the international level, what about for the rest of the campaign while we still have Lansedown available? I fear that if the ground is opened up the FAI will see the money side of it, and think getting 80,000 v France sure beats 30odd thousand in Lansedown and would move games like the France one over to Croker. Imo, this is a bad idea and I know Brian Kerr thinks it's a bad idea too. We have an amazing record in Lansedown for competitive games, espically since we moved in permanently, and it's not worth risking that record to play in a bigger stadium. Also in Croker there will be one end completley empty, I assume, which will not help the atmosphere one bit. Also the pitch isn't great and would be a bit far from the fans, which again wont help atmosphere, because it would be smaller than the GAA pitch.

So, while having Croker without Lansedown rould be great, I'm I one of the few who would much rather stay in Lansedown while it's still available and not move until we have to? I think we've a better chance of beating the French in Lansedown than we do in Croker so that should be all that matters.

That's if it gets opened in the first place, of course.

jbyrne

16/02/2005, 9:12 PM

i reckon that that if the french game was to be the first game to be played in croke park, should it be opened to other sports, it would create such a buzz about the place that the atmosphere would be fantastic. 80,000 Irish fans in the one place would create an unbelievable atmosphere in my opinion. i dont know why kerr has anything against the pitch as its a similar type of pitch to that used by a few of the epl clubs. however, i believe that the only chance of croke park being available will be while lansdowne is closed and thats a couple of years down the road. cant see the required two thirds majority being reached for a permanent opening of croke park to be honest

onenilgameover

16/02/2005, 10:40 PM

colster

17/02/2005, 10:25 AM

If it were to open up I think we'd need a few friendly games there for the players to become comfortable with it. How often have you seen a Premiership side have a really bad run after moving to a new stadium?
I don't think we'd have enough time before the French game to become comfortable with Croker.
I think we should complete this group at Lansdowne and move to Croker for some Friendlies next year if it was to open.

Slash/ED

17/02/2005, 10:35 AM

I can certainly see the advantages of stayin at Lansdowne and if I was a block booker or gauranteed a ticket I might side on the idea that Lansdowne might see us do better. However I'm on the waiting list with alot us others who are fearing that they might miss this game and would gladly see it move. The advantages far out way the disadvantages. What was Kerr's point about the pitch being not suitable for Soccer not beacase of the size but because of the grass. He wants the pitch to be as wetas possible as far as I can remember.

He also had complaints about how far the pitch would be from the players which would reduce the intimidation factor.

I can see your point about tickets but we've a better chance of winning in Lansedown, I'd gladly not go if it meant winning or at least getting the result needed.

Peadar

17/02/2005, 10:36 AM

i dont know why kerr has anything against the pitch as its a similar type of pitch to that used by a few of the epl clubs.

I think it's the dimensions rather than the surface.
Kerr has been known to periodically walk the width of the playing surface at away grounds. If the pitch is widened before the game, he'll assume they plan to play with wingers.
If it has been narrowed he'll assume they plan to play a more direct game.
I think he's worried that we'll be forced to play within a larger playing area than he'd like.

He wants the pitch to be as wetas possible as far as I can remember.

Many club managers insist on that too because a hard surface can lead to impact injuries.

monutdfc

17/02/2005, 10:53 AM

If it were to open up I think we'd need a few friendly games there for the players to become comfortable with it. How often have you seen a Premiership side have a really bad run after moving to a new stadium?

good point

Kerr has been known to periodically walk the width of the playing surface at away grounds. If the pitch is widened before the game, he'll assume they plan to play with wingers.
might be an urban myth, but I read once that he keeps the dimensions of every pitch in a notebook, so he can tell if the paying area has been widened or narrowed

What was Kerr's point about the pitch being not suitable for Soccer not beacase of the size but because of the grass. He wants the pitch to be as wet as possible as far as I can remember.
The Croke Park surface is quite firm underfoot. If it is then watered it would get very slippy. Look at the trouble gaelic footballers have holding their feet in games there.

dublinred

17/02/2005, 11:11 AM

I'd leave the france game at Lansdowne the big pitch and blue seats would suit the French.

harps1954

17/02/2005, 11:20 AM

Also in Croker there will be one end completley empty, I assume, which will not help the atmosphere one bit.

I think they could put bucket seats on the hill, just like the North and South terrace. The FAI have degoration from FIFA to use bucket seats for this campaign as they have plans for the redevelopment of Lansdowne.

Does this mean you could put maybe another 10,000 seats on the hill. That would mean around 90,000 Irish fans in the one place. I don't care if they have never played there before, but with 90,000 irish fans roaring them on, it can only help our boys.

pete

17/02/2005, 11:29 AM

I don't think FIFA would give the FAI another derogation to put bucket seats in Hill 16. I think current derogation limited to Lansdowne having low capacity without them...

Peadar

17/02/2005, 11:33 AM

I think they could put bucket seats on the hill, just like the North and South terrace.

I've said this before but as far as I'm concerned, Hill 16 is far too steep for the type of seating used on the terraces in Lansdowne Road.

An alternative solution would need to be saught which could be very expensive if it is developed especially for Croke Park and can only be used a few times a year.

Does this mean you could put maybe another 10,000 seats on the hill. That would mean around 90,000 Irish fans in the one place.

I don't know who your maths teacher was but they need to hang their head in shame.

When Croke Park is completed, the total capacity will be something like 82,500.
This includes Hill 16 which will account for almost 13,000 standing spectators.
82,500 - 13,000 = 69,500
Lets be optimistic and say that seating in Hill 16 would half its capacity.
Then we have 69,500 + 6,500 = 76,000
10% would have to go to the away Association which would mean about 68,400 home fans.
That's 21,600 less than your figures and I'm being generous.

Eire06

17/02/2005, 11:35 AM

I really can't decide which would be better..

Were having a great run of things at the moment, building up a top class record at landsdowne.. An whay change a good thing???

BUT the atmosphere is hard to get going.. and there is always a good atmosphere in croker,
BUT it'll be a very important match so there prob will be a great atmosphere in Lansdowne anyway...
BUT theres more room in Croker so more fans will get to watch the match live..
BUT the players aren't used to playin in Croker and it might put them off....

Oh I don't know

Lucky I'm not makin the decision... If it does come between goin to Eng or Scot for the match then Croker would be the best option IMO

cullenswood

17/02/2005, 11:39 AM

There will be no chance that Croker will be open for the French game. Even if the GAA vote in favour of opening it up (and that is a big IF given the 2/3 majority rule) I think the only motions that would have a chance are those that state it will be open when Lansdowne is being re-developed, and this is not happening for another year or so.

Cowboy

17/02/2005, 1:22 PM

Superhoops

18/02/2005, 7:10 AM

......Even if the GAA vote in favour of opening it (Croke Park) up (and that is a big IF given the 2/3 majority rule) I think the only motions that would have a chance are those that state it will be open when Lansdowne is being re-developed, and this is not happening for another year or so.
It's not going to happen. Strong opposition now from Munster, along with Ulster. Looks like Limerick will join Waterford, Tipperary and Cork all of whom are being mandated to block vote against any motion that supports opening up CP.

harps1954

18/02/2005, 9:27 AM

I've said this before but as far as I'm concerned, Hill 16 is far too steep for the type of seating used on the terraces in Lansdowne Road.

An alternative solution would need to be saught which could be very expensive if it is developed especially for Croke Park and can only be used a few times a year.

I don't know who your maths teacher was but they need to hang their head in shame.

When Croke Park is completed, the total capacity will be something like 82,500.
This includes Hill 16 which will account for almost 13,000 standing spectators.
82,500 - 13,000 = 69,500
Lets be optimistic and say that seating in Hill 16 would half its capacity.
Then we have 69,500 + 6,500 = 76,000
10% would have to go to the away Association which would mean about 68,400 home fans.
That's 21,600 less than your figures and I'm being generous.

Maybe my figures were a bit over the top. But what is the capacity of Lansdowne - 35,000 I think!

Take 10% of that for the French (3,500) and you have 31,500 home supporters. Your figures show that we would have more than twice that number at Croker.

Personally, I don't think it will be open for the French game (if it is even open at all), but from a supporters point of view, it would be better in Croker with more fans able to attend. And judging from newspaper reports yesterday, quite a few of the players said that they would love to play the french in Croke Park (i.e. Cunningham, Morrison, Given, & others).

I've never been to Croker in my life, and the only time I am likely to be there is for a soccer match!!

jbyrne

18/02/2005, 9:32 AM

It's not going to happen. Strong opposition now from Munster, along with Ulster. Looks like Limerick will join Waterford, Tipperary and Cork all of whom are being mandated to block vote against any motion that supports opening up CP.

i cant understand why do they go through the farce of debating the issue at congress if all the county delegates turn up already knowing which way they are going to vote?? :confused:

harps1954

18/02/2005, 11:16 AM

[QUOTE=pronane]and your from donegal!!! its 44,000 and a few more to be exact not 35,000[QUOTE]

Wrong :o - 44,000 for friendly games, 35,000 or less for competitive matches with the bucket seats.

Peadar

18/02/2005, 11:36 AM

Wrong :o - 44,000 for friendly games, 35,000 or less for competitive matches with the bucket seats.

Correct this time. ;)
For some reason, I don't think the visiting fans get 3,500 tickets though.
Perhaps they're offered that many but don't have the interest.

thejollyrodger

19/02/2005, 1:35 PM

There are lots of issues invovled in opening up Croke Park. It might throw a spanner in the works and result in Ireland loosing soccer matches:(

Regarding dimensions, this was discussed before either here or on boards.ie. The full width and length soccer dimensions that are acceptable by FIFA are just 5-10 meters shorter in length than a Croker. The only real problem would be can Ireland play in such a big pitch.

Moving to a new stadium could result in a flat atmosphere and a poor team performance. It took Brian Kerr ages to get a decent enough atmosphere going (like the booing of the portugese players) in lansdowne. It might take 5 -10 matches to do the same in Croker.

The fact that all of Hill 16 will be empty is a bit of a sickener.

Well its up the GAA to decide. They have to do whatever is best for the GAA. I can see why they dont want the FAI muppets in.

onenilgameover

20/02/2005, 8:05 PM

Its a long shot....But whats the chances of France not taking up their allocation of 3,500 thousand tickets for the game?

gspain

21/02/2005, 8:06 AM

Its a long shot....But whats the chances of France not taking up their allocation of 3,500 thousand tickets for the game?

Zero.

however if you are on the ball you might get one of them like the other Irish people in Paris or French people living here.

A French address or a French colleague/friend living here writing in French will help. Munster rugby fans have been on to this trick for years.

strangeirish

24/02/2005, 3:10 PM

Local newspaper in Kildare does a straw poll. Very interesting comments from some of the GAA clubs in the county. See here (http://www.kildare-nationalist.ie/news/story.asp?j=19413)

Metrostars

24/02/2005, 3:42 PM

If Croker is opened up....the drink will be flowing:

ALCOHOL will be available to all fans inside the gates of Croke Park come this summer's Championship, if the stadium is successful in its latest planning application.

http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=96&si=1346172&issue_id=12127

Peadar

24/02/2005, 3:46 PM

the drink will be flowing

The no drink at football games is a UEFA thing.
There's always beer at Lansdowne Road for the rugby but never for the football.
Manys the day I was toasted leaving Croker after a Hurling game.
There wont be alcoholic beer at football games, regardless of the venue.

Schumi

24/02/2005, 3:48 PM

There's always beer at Lansdowne Road for the rugby but never for the football.
At Lansdowne Road there is, but not in the game. There's a bar in a big tent behind the East Stand but you can't bring a pint into the stand.

Peadar

24/02/2005, 3:58 PM

you can't bring a pint into the stand.

You can't bring your pint to your seat in Croker either.
Usually end up watching the game out the window. ;)

onenilgameover

26/02/2005, 11:45 PM

gspain wrote

Zero.

however if you are on the ball you might get one of them like the other Irish people in Paris or French people living here.

A French address or a French colleague/friend living here writing in French will help. Munster rugby fans have been on to this trick for years

I've been thinkin along those lines myself gspain. I worked in a bar in paris for a couple of years and am only home recently. Its an option alright! Won't be shouting it from the rooftops all the same...