Republic of Ireland v Iceland - Tuesday, 28th March 2017 - Friendly 2017

[DannyInvincible]

If it's any consolation, the brass band (who were thankfully denied access to the PA system tonight) got booed (https://www.balls.ie/football/fai-bras-band-362056) every time the trumpet started playing, so hopefully the FAI will have taken note and that will be the last of that!

[Nugget]

That booing was largely sarcastic. Thought the crowd mostly enjoyed it during a pretty drab game.

As a positive to the game I thought O'Kane was superb when he came on.

[tricky_colour]

It's all that fish they eat.

[tetsujin1979]

Haven't read the whole thread yet, are there any guesses on when we last started with only two players in the top division in England?
Even extending it to four players in their respective top divisions would be going back a way

[tricky_colour]

Only a simpleton like me would think the answer is to get more shots on goal. And yet....

Sometimes simple solutions are the best.

There is an old saying in football, of you don't shoot, you don't score.

[tricky_colour]

highlights (ie icelandic free kick)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-nwAsveQMY

[KrisLetang]

There is an old saying in football, of you don't shoot, you don't score.

Gretzky says that in his book "You miss 100% of the shots you don't take."
This time last week even the crustiest relics on here seemed quite full of hope, what an underwhelming two matches.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Westwood - 5: Caught flat footed for the goal. Looked ropey throughout
Christie - 6: Few decent moments
Egan - 6: Didn't have a lot to do
Pearce - 6: See Egan
Brady - 7: Obviously the best player on the park
McGeady - 4: Awful and predictably awful.
Hourihane - 6: A few good moments but struggled to impose himself
Hendrick - 6: Didn't look interested
Hayes - 6: Never really noticed him tbh
McClean 7: Gives you the same no matter where he plays. Always a handful but more effective in midfield
Doyle - 5: I'm not sure he's still up to this level anymore

So it wasn't just me who noticed about Westwood? Thought I was going crazy.

[geysir]

Although this was just a meaningless contest in the truer sense of the word, the Irish performance was shockingly bad and no excuse for dragging down the Icelanders to defend against that nullifying game in the 2nd half. The blonde kid who scored is on the Bristol City subs bench when they're hard up. This is a makey up team who scraped by Malta 1 nil in a similar friendly conditions after a wc qualifier. I thought the best player on the park was the very impressive Sverrir Ingason, a young center half with Granada.


Though it probably means that the more certifiably deluded of posters here will continue to find excuses for claiming that Iceland are still a small team running their luck (for over 4 years now), playing a simple game against teams who are having an off-day,
and will be found out eventually when they play a real team like Germany/France/Spain :D

[Charlie Darwin]

Though it probably means that the more certifiably deluded of posters here will continue to find excuses for claiming that Iceland are still a small team running their luck (for over 4 years now), playing a simple game against teams who are having an off-day,
and will be found out eventually when they play a real team like Germany/France/Spain :D
I don't think anybody here even remotely suggested anything like that.

[SkStu]

I don't think anybody here even remotely suggested anything like that.

I think Geysirs hit the Brennivín and whale blubber a bit hard in celebration.

[KrisLetang]

Not a very nice thing to say about his girlfriend Stu!

[tricky_colour]

The icelandic defence was pretty solid, mind you ours was too apart from the free kick.

I think we should have had a man on the line for the free kick, we should have done better, it was not a great free kick it was way to easy, one side
of the goal was wide open.

[jbyrne]

If it's any consolation, the brass band (who were thankfully denied access to the PA system tonight) got booed (https://www.balls.ie/football/fai-bras-band-362056) every time the trumpet started playing, so hopefully the FAI will have taken note and that will be the last of that!

it was over the PA I am afraid. definitely where I was sitting anyway

[paul_oshea]

I think Geysirs hit the Brennivín and whale blubber a bit hard in celebration.

Whale blubber, he doesn't drink. I don't know what sort of amnesia he suffers from, which board he thinks he is posting on.

Iceland are very well organised and very well coached. Kind of says a lot really. They also have been playing and learning to control the ball in tight positions from a young age, technically far sounder than we are.

Look semantics lads, i think some of those shots and mccleans first werent going on target from where i was standing behind the goal for example. We created SFA in 270 minutes if you include Georgia, bar colemans run and some pretty poor defending. It's very worrying, regardless of who plays we still aren't creating anything. Thats the biggest worry, not sure what O'Neill and keane have them doing in training but they need to rectify it before Austria, these 2 games could well be a god-send before the june 12th game.

[DeLorean]

We created SFA in 270 minutes if you include Georgia, bar colemans run and some pretty poor defending. It's very worrying, regardless of who plays we still aren't creating anything.

I'm not disagreeing but it should be noted that Hoolahan played exactly zero of those 270 minutes. It's well established that he's our go to guy when it comes to making us tick in the final third. We really were crying out for him last night when it was obvious that any amount of crosses or long balls wasn't going to work. I think those three games have highlighted how reliant on him we have become, which is a major worry in itself.

[DannyInvincible]

Some bits from Martin O'Neill's post-match press conference:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rq2ZdaaQNw

[DeLorean]

So it wasn't just me who noticed about Westwood? Thought I was going crazy.

I think it may have been BTTW that had an uncharacteristic hissy fit when some of us had the audacity to opine their preference for Westwood over Randolph at one stage, so I've a feeling, like yourself, there could be some biased motivation at play here.


Hayes - 6: Never really noticed him tbh

I had little interest in seeing Hayes in the squad, let alone the starting XI, but I thought he was clearly one of our better performers. He worked tirelessly and forced his way into the game and even came across a decent amount of possession. It would have been difficult not to notice him I think.


Westwood - 5: Caught flat footed for the goal. Looked ropey throughout

Did he even have enough to do to look ropey throughout? He had pretty much no saves to make, no crosses to gather and he got got a lot of distance with his kicking. To really nit pick you could maybe argue that he ran a small risk of taking the extra touch before making his clearances, allowing the forwards to close in on him.

As for the goal, if a player ducks then the keeper is not going to see it until it's too late and it was right in the corner. The wall (Hourihane) simply hung him out to dry I think. Even Randolph (who would have saved it apparently) knows exactly how that feels.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ac_c9k6M62M

[Stuttgart88]

I've joined the thread late and haven't had time to read (yet) what everyone has said, but in my opinion, regardless of whether the wall ducked or not I think Westwood should have done better. He wasn't obscured by the wall at all. He clearly saw it early, picked the flight and direction of the ball, reacted by shifting his weight but then just stopped. OK, so maybe experience led him to recognise that by completing the dive he'd have been exposed to a deflection, but I think just assuming a ball hit well at head height won't make it through the wall was a bad assumption. I think he should have completed his dive myself.

I'm not going as far as blaming him but, since micro-scrutiny of everything our keepers do is the norm for this forum, that's my own micro-scrutiny. Wall didn't do it's job, but KW could have done better too.

Otherwise he did fine. Both keepers had so little to do you couldn't make a judgment.

[Stuttgart88]

I'm not disagreeing but it should be noted that Hoolahan played exactly zero of those 270 minutes. It's well established that he's our go to guy when it comes to making us tick in the final third. We really were crying out for him last night when it was obvious that any amount of crosses or long balls wasn't going to work. I think those three games have highlighted how reliant on him we have become, which is a major worry in itself.
Desperately crying out for him.

However I'd be critical of O'Neill for two things:

Brady can't influence play from left-back as well as he can from LM. Ward or Cunningham should have been picked at LB to allow Brady to play LM and to link with Hendrick.
Everyone can see McGeady has been enjoying a more central role at Preston. This is where he should have started in my opinion.

Failing that Brady should have been given license to play further forward.

[DeLorean]

He wasn't obscured by the wall at all.

Well he was clearly obscured by the wall until the point that it was past the wall. By then it was too late. Completely blameless in my opinion. Strange thing is, if he just didn't move at all it'd probably have looked like he had even less chance of reaching it.

[Stuttgart88]

I don't agree at all! He saw it really early. He moved really early.

[DeLorean]

Desperately crying out for him.

However I'd be critical of O'Neill for two things:

Brady can't influence play from left-back as well as he can from LM. Ward or Cunningham should have been picked at LB to allow Brady to play LM and to link with Hendrick.
Everyone can see McGeady has been enjoying a more central role at Preston. This is where he should have started in my opinion.

Failing that Brady should have been given license to play further forward.

Agree with all of that for sure. McGeady should be able to contribute more from the right but it's clear at this stage that he just doesn't. Even in his more orthodox winger days he was always far more productive on the left cutting in. It was a total waste of an opportunity. McClean running around like a headless chicken doesn't serve much purpose up front either, pointless experiment in my opinion. He's just not a striker.

Back to Hoolahan briefly, I'm not sure if it's been mentioned but the shortlist for our goal of the year spoke volumes. Hoolahan to the fore of all three - his brilliantly taken goal against Sweden, his inch perfect cross for Brady and pass for McClean. I shudder to think what kind of a year we would have had without him.

[DeLorean]

I don't agree at all!

Sure that's what it's all about.

At least we know it's what you actually believe, and not just opportunistic or agenda based.

[DeLorean]

He moved really early.

Looking at Danny's pictures on page five, he does make a movement to his left before it reaches the wall. He's anticipating where it's going. I just don't think he can fully commit as it looks like it's going to hit the wall, which it should have, and therefore he'd have to be prepared for a deflection or whatever.

[Stuttgart88]

Yeah, for me the only mitigant is that he instinctively recognised a deflection risk.

On the plus side, he dealt with a dangerous in-swinger very well in the second half, not getting tempted to anticipate a touch and letting the ball make its way into his arms. Randolph made the mistake of anticipating a touch against Leicester. There was no touch and the ball went straight into the middle of the goal. It's not easy to call those situations right but it's one thing I always notice.

[Stuttgart88]

Just for the sake of mischief: was the ball that exposed Egan the kind of ball that Whelan mops up every match (before failing to carry it forward into a wide open space and playing a slow conservative pass to a CB!)?

[DeLorean]

Very possibly. But I'd say any one of Whelan, McCarthy or even Meyler might have offered more protection. Hendrick and Hourihane were always unlikely to be as defensively assured.

[DeLorean]

As a positive to the game I thought O'Kane was superb when he came on.

It was a brilliant cameo. He did everything we've been crying out for our more established midfielders to do. Simply put, make yourself available for a pass and use the ball constructively.

[paul_oshea]

McGeady did play more central in the 2nd half, and he contributed even less. He looked tired again. I really dont see what we get from him, and his purple patch for Preston is probably more to do with the level he is playing at than anything else otherwise its just one of those weird enigmas why he can't transfer any club form to International.

I think there is justification in being critical of O'Neill at this stage. Going on the last two performances we will end up drawing all our remaining world cup games and/or losing 1-0/0-1.

I read an article recently about wingers not really looking up or aiming when they cross teh majority of the time, I think it was hunts article I referred to a few sundays ago, well hunts delivery was ok. At the moment it doesn't seem to be working at all, so is it all down to the poor positioning of our players? Surely you look up the odd time and nail it on the head? Either way its scary, ball after ball over the last two games never looked like going on anyones head.

I was flabbergasted the last day when Christie came on that with all the long balls we never had anyone the near side of the post to flick on, and the ball landed short for a welsh clearance, it happened a couple of times again last night. We clearly haven't been practising these set pieces, if O'Neills emphasis is so much on set-pieces etc we have an awful lot to work on, and why have we not thus far?

If there is anything we can learn from Iceland, its that when you take your chance, like a set-piece, you defend resolutely and stay organised, closing out the game and holding your lead, without much fuss. They showed that against us last night and against England. I think their system suits playing british and Irish teams, but less so proper passing continental teams.

[DeLorean]

I wouldn't really judge our set pieces on the last two games. We were without most of our heavy hitters in that regard and playing two teams who were never going to be bullied in that department anyway. My criticism would be that we hadn't anything else planned to compensate.

[paul_oshea]

It was a brilliant cameo. He did everything we've been crying out for our more established midfielders to do. Simply put, make yourself available for a pass and use the ball constructively.

I thought Gleeson started the better actually. I thought he looked far more composed on the ball than hourihane. And to think some were calling for him the last day :rolleyes: I've always thought Gleeson was a tidy football good at keeping momentum going anytime I've watched him.

[paul_oshea]

I wouldn't really judge our set pieces on the last two games. We were without most of our heavy hitters in that regard and playing two teams who were never going to be bullied in that department anyway. My criticism would be that we hadn't anything else planned to compensate.

It doesn't matter, our game plan was to throw the long ball and cross cross cross, we did both abjectly. If thats our plan then we should have some plays and some organisation. We had nothing and these/this were clearly our "plan" as you call it.

[Stuttgart88]

I got an email slagging Christie for his aimless long throws on Friday. I thought it was more Walters and Long's fault for not being in a place to get a flick. They clearly hadn't been practiced.

As for O'Kane, his composure on the ball encouraged others to move ahead of him. That type of play holds things together and makes a team look like a team with a purpose. From my seat in the East Upper you can see a good team on the ball. Germany advanced as a unit. Even Wales did on Friday. When our midfielders get the ball our full backs often stay put in expectation of being the first option hit, before chipping the ball "into the channels". A good ball playing midfielder gives CBs the confidence to hold a high line and full backs to advance and it was only when O'Kane and Gleeson came on did it look to me like we were a coherent attacking eleven.

Ronnie Whelan wrote before the Euros that we'd miss O'Kane (was he injured or just culled?). I saw his point at the time and see it now too.

[DeLorean]

I thought Gleeson started the better actually. I thought he looked far more composed on the ball than hourihane. And to think some were calling for him the last day :rolleyes: I've always thought Gleeson was a tidy football good at keeping momentum going anytime I've watched him.

You don't think Hourihane's form at club level entitled him to an opportunity?

Gleeson played well too but he pass selection was far more cautious than O'Kane's.

[DeLorean]

It doesn't matter, our game plan was to throw the long ball and cross cross cross, we did both abjectly. If thats our plan then we should have some plays and some organisation. We had nothing and these/this were clearly our "plan" as you call it.

Wouldn't disagree with that. Just think we'd be a bigger threat from set pieces with the likes of Duffy and Clark aggressively attacking Brady's deliveries.

[CraftyToePoke]

You don't think Hourihane's form at club level entitled him to an opportunity?

He might mean vs Wales, TOWK was wanting him thrown in against Wales untested, which looking at last night, MON got spot on.

[DeLorean]

Ah yes, fair point I guess. And very unlike Paul to use the benefit of hindsight. :)

[paul_oshea]

You don't think Hourihane's form at club level entitled him to an opportunity?

Gleeson played well too but he pass selection was far more cautious than O'Kane's.

Funny thing is people complained about O'Dowda getting included, and he is the only one who has looked like a premiership capable player when he has come on. MON and Keane can obviously spot this as you'd expect.

I've watched both, and I've always felt out of all midfielders never to get a chance Gleeson has been the best I've spotted and always felt he could probably move up the ladder again, for whatever reason like others before he just hasn't been lucky enough to be in a championship promotion winning team a mon avis.

I've learnt not to get carried away with cameos and/or first couple of appearances, cos the players have something to prove and generally they are in less important games, then when regulars theyir performance levels drop, just look at hendrick and heaslip in the rugby, its more apparent in rugby though.

I also don't think anyone really staked a claim last night, horgan was good, odowda was ok in patches, hayes made himself busy, but nothing none of the regular first teamers don't give us. We really need a decent striker, or one that can at least position himself well. The following move where o'dowda anticapated the tackle and bent his left foot to touch the ball on the outside and slip it by the icelandic defender was also quality. These are the things mon and keane must spot and look out for when deciding who gets preference and is closer to first team.

[paul_oshea]

He might mean vs Wales, TOWK was wanting him thrown in against Wales untested, which looking at last night, MON got spot on.

and bttw. and mark678910 and a couple of others too. Its funny when i see certain players i can generally see when they will fit in well but i didnt think so much with hourihane. Still time to be hopefully proven wrong. He is very small too, doesn't suit playing that deep should have been further forward, but on the ball he didnt show much.

That one through pass to o'dowda from o'kane top of boot was lovely. Its so simple, not really just looks it, and works so effectively.

[DeLorean]

Small in height or build? In height I would have thought he was average enough, not as tall as McCarthy, Hendrick or Meyler but definitely taller than Whelan, Gleeson and probably O'Kane.

[DeLorean]

There is something about O'Dowda I agree, and have always done. Not overly encouraging that he hasn't taken the Championship by storm but hopefully he can kick on. He definitely has a bit of quality about him.

Gleeson looks run of the mill any time I see him, more of what we have already, but I really haven't seen enough to write him in or out. O'Kane just looks to have something a bit different.

[Stuttgart88]

Who complained about O'Dowda being in the squad?

No complaints from me for MON picking Hourihane. His club form merited it but I think he fluffed the audition. He'll get another chance I'm sure.

I still think MON could have played a better hand last night with the cards he was dealt (or failed to pick up). But in each game we were so far from full strength that it's clear we shouldn't draw too many conclusions. In the context of the group and our injury situation a draw with Wales was perfectly decent.

[DannyInvincible]

Everyone can see McGeady has been enjoying a more central role at Preston. This is where he should have started in my opinion.

Balls.ie did an interesting write-up on this very issue: https://www.balls.ie/football/aiden-mcgeady-4-362064


The problem with McGeady is that he's a fundamentally poor crosser of the ball; notable exceptions (Estonia playoff, Croatia at Euro 2012) aside, his technique when swinging the ball from wide is frankly horrendous for a player of his considerable ability in other facets of the game.

The fact of the matter is that he's likely not a winger at all, but such are his assets - pace and decent footwork - he's been shoe-horned wide for the majority of his 13-year career, and certainly all of his Ireland career.

It should also be said that he's infinitely more effective wandering inwards from the left flank than he is charging down the right, where he was deployed tonight.

It was from the left where he produced his definitive moment in an Irish jersey, rescuing his side with two goals in Tbilisi in 2014 - his last minute winner born of what the EA Sports FIFA video game series some years ago labelled 'The McGeady Spin', an inside-out 'roulette' of sorts - as Ireland beat Georgia 2-1 in Martin O'Neill's first competitive game in charge.

Often forgotten, however, was his dazzling display versus the same opposition at Croke Park five years prior. Similar position, same result.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVg35nOpSHg

Compare the above compilation from 2009 with his displays for Preston this season, and you'll notice a distinct pattern.

[backstothewall]

I think it may have been BTTW that had an uncharacteristic hissy fit when some of us had the audacity to opine their preference for Westwood over Randolph at one stage, so I've a feeling, like yourself, there could be some biased motivation at play here.



I had little interest in seeing Hayes in the squad, let alone the starting XI, but I thought he was clearly one of our better performers. He worked tirelessly and forced his way into the game and even came across a decent amount of possession. It would have been difficult not to notice him I think.



Did he even have enough to do to look ropey throughout? He had pretty much no saves to make, no crosses to gather and he got got a lot of distance with his kicking. To really nit pick you could maybe argue that he ran a small risk of taking the extra touch before making his clearances, allowing the forwards to close in on him.

As for the goal, if a player ducks then the keeper is not going to see it until it's too late and it was right in the corner. The wall (Hourihane) simply hung him out to dry I think. Even Randolph (who would have saved it apparently) knows exactly how that feels.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ac_c9k6M62M

I wouldn't describe it as a hissy fit, but i remember the conversation :p

I didn't and still don't believe Randolph has done anything for either club or country that justifies making a change, but i was very pleased Westwood got his chance yesterday.

I've not had time to watch it back, so bar the goal I've only seen the game live. On the goal, while the wall was awful, i thought Westwood has to take a fair bit of the blame. The free kick was right in the corner, but there wasn't much pace on it. It goes past Westwood at a difficult height for a goalkeeper but it wasn't a case of Magnusson hitting a great freekick that went over the wall at speed and then dipped in the air. It went through the wall at head height at a fairly pedestrian ace and then dropped. It was only that lack of pace that allowed it to end up in the bottom corner.

The wall could and probably should have stopped it. But whose job is it the organise the wall? Westwood seemed to be giving instructions to Brady about how it should set up. Half of them jumping and half of them not bothering suggests either he wasn't clear, Brady cocked up the instruction, or that nobody said whether they should jump or not.

After it goes past the wall I'd expect my keeper to get something on it. On the replay i watched both his feet were planted as Magnusson struck the ball. By the time he gets his feet sorted it is already in. He never dives. Once it goes in his body language is pretty sheepy. I don't think he was terrible happy with his own efforts.

He hadn't had much to do up until then but he had looked fine up until that happened. After that i thought he looked nervy. He came out of his box a lot, and tends to ponder on the ball until someone is almost on top of him.

The coming out of his box is a mixed blessing. He cleaned up a potentially dangerous situation very well at one point, and he is quick off his line. However he just didn't look confident to me. I'll concede that that's maybe me unconsciously projecting my own bias onto him.

Similarly the delaying his clearances forces a member of the opposition to close him down and potentially creates a bit more space in midfield (and you are right about the distance he was getting).

But the combination of the two has the potential for disaster in my opinion.

If everyone is fit and i was picking 3 goalkeepers for a major tournament he would certainly make my squad though. For that reason I think it's important that he gets more game time in friendlies etc. But Randolph is the obvious first choice goalkeeper for me.

[Stuttgart88]

Yep, I agree that KW himself felt he could have done better. I saw it in his body language too. He started going the right way but just stopped - but maybe in anticipation of a deflection. Had he continued he'd have made a decent save.

I was at Pats v Rovers on Saturday. Rovers' keeper (Cencinsky?) saved a similar shot that got through the wall. That shot actually had more pace.

I don't think a keeper can micro-organise his wall though. It's his job to line them up but after that it's up to the players to jump and get in the way.

Funny thing is, I probably prefer KW as a keeper but Randolph continues to do well. He made a hash of a punch on Friday but was very alert and dealt with Bale's free kick easily. He dealt with an under-hit back pass well too.

I'd be much happier if we were nitpicking over which forwards to pick!

[OwlsFan]

On Westwood, I was watching him needless to say behind the goal. He had the wall organised but then it was moved back about 3 yards to the line the ref had drawn and he shouted a few instructions but no one listened and he gave up. They did move a taller player to the middle of the wall and a smaller one to the left I think. Much and all as I hate to admit it, he was flatfooted when it nestled in the net. I was surprised he didn't save it. On the positive side his distribution was better than Randolph and he fed the ball out to the full backs far more often than Randolph.

As to the game itself, we had a team which never played together before so I am neither shocked at the result nor at the performance. I was pleasantly surprised at the size of the crowd.

What did we learn, if we can learn anything from one game:

- (a) McGeady, who many wanted to start against Wales, is still the McGeady we love and who frustrates us. The standard in the Championship is dire (trust me) and a series of good games for Preston does not mean he is a new man. That said, he is one of the few Irish players who get us on our feet, only to sit down again. I still think he can produce that bit of magic so worth a squad place.
- (b) Hourihane - very reluctant to judge him on one game but did not have a great game and always took the easy option. Maybe with more experience, more confidence will come. Possible blame in the goal. Worth a squad place.
- (c) Doyle: it told us that he is not the player he once was and alas that injury he got playing for us really knocked him back. Not worth a squad place.
+ (d) Horgan put in some excellent crosses but with no natural striker they were wasted.
+ (e) Continued tactic of pretending to take a short corner which draws two defenders away for our one man. Surprised everyone doesn't do this.
- (f) A lot of people were attending an international for the first time. You can imagine their thoughts on what they saw.
+ (g) Austria only drew at home to Finland. No world beaters either.
- (h) McLean was ineffective in the role given to him. + You have to admire his energy and determination.
- (i) Looks like we have to rely on a 34 year old playing in the second tier of English football for our inspiration and whom the management were originally ambivalent about.
- (j) What has happened to the Jeff Hendrick of the Euros ?

+++ We're joint top of the group with our main competitors still to come to us. We need to practice big time on set pieces because with the retirement of Robbie chances from open play will be at a premium.

[CraftyToePoke]

I'd be much happier if we were nitpicking over which forwards to pick!

Ah yeah, but at least the days of that bluffer Robbie Keane being in the squad are behind us.

[KrisLetang]

Looks like your lunch mates pretty much ended up being right, Owls.

[backstothewall]

The strikers issue is a problem. The consensus seems to be that Doyle should have been named in his last squad, but who on earth should we be picking in his place? Maybe time to try setting up cups of coffee with Patrick Bamford, Will Keane and Scott Hogan again!