Come to Cork this March 17

[razor]

Republicans see red over Orange invitation to parade
SINN FEIN has reacted angrily to a decision by St Patrick's Day parade organisers in Cork to invite members of the Orange Order to take part in this year's event.

The Order has been asked to participate in the parade as part of the "Lagan to the Lee" cross-border initiative between Belfast and Cork. The programme aims to promote greater harmony in north-south relations.

However, Jonathan O'Brien, Sinn Fein councillor in Cork city, yesterday slammed the move by parade organisers to invite the Orange order to the city, saying it was a "bizarre" act which could harm rather than help the peace process.

"I do have concerns about inviting the Orange Order to the parade in Cork's year as Capital of Culture. The organisers say the initiative is about inclusiveness but there is nothing inclusive about the Orange Order. They are a sectarian organisation. Catholics aren't even allowed to join. What is inclusive about that?"

He plans to discuss the issue at Sinn Fein's party meeting in Cork this evening and says he has contacted his colleagues in the north to discuss the matter.

A vote will also take place tonight at Belfast City Council on whether funding will be provided for the trip.

[pete]

Seems like good idea to me. When you get people from different backgrounds mixing its how breakdown prejudices.

Orange Order is pretty much a religious organisation so is kinda like criticising the Roman Catholic Chruch cos won't allow Jews join.

[tiktok]

Jesus, old men wearing Miss World Sashes and bowler hats walking down Pana and a knee-jerk reaction from the republicans.
You're not going to get any kind of agreement if people can't even walk down the street with each other. Well done to the Parade committee for taking a chance.

[patsh]

I would have to support the invitation, and it is a positive move, but I can understand the reservations of a lot of people, not just Shinners.
The Orange Order is an anti-Catholic sectarian organisation, whose leaders, in particular, number some of the most bitter bigots on the island.
I welcome it for the "bridge-building" aspect of things, but I hope it's not seen as somehow legitimising their bigotry. At the moment, the self same Order is actively demanding that President MacAleese not visit the Shankhill road.

[liam88]

Digusting to be honest....and I'm not being secaterian and I am fed up with Sinn Feinn and the IRA but I would take this line even if SF didn't.......who can you invite these biggots to a predominantly Catholic city which has a proud place in history with great mean like Michael Collins and Kevin Barry. That's not just dragging up the past but the oo are a real problem and while they insist on marching on Dumcree/Shortstrand etc. and intimidating people why should they be INVITED to march on our city.
Seems to me a lot of Cork folk have lost pride in their City'd history and place in Ireland.

[BobbyHans]

"Kevin Barry" - Sorry don't you mean Tom Barry?? I thought Kevin Barry was from Dublin?

[liam88]

"Kevin Barry" - Sorry don't you mean Tom Barry?? I thought Kevin Barry was from Dublin?
Ooops :o
However if I remember Kevin did fight in Cork at some point....

[A face]

Lads, these guys have been marching all over the place in catholic countries, Italy, Germany, Poland, Iceland .. The States. They were in the Paddys day parade in New York aswell. It is not a rub your noses in it type thing ... there have been several documentary / magazine type programs about them and others being invited and inviting other etc. and they have been well receivied in most places. Why do the shinners sit up now all of a sudden, why weren't they giving out before.

This is a great gesture IMO. And it is a perfect opportunity for all the shinners to show how they want to bury the hatchet and appreciate other cultures/religions/people and that they accept other people (on this occasion another group in a parade) for who they are on face value and not stigma and that they are part of modern Ireland and are forward looking.

I suppose we'll just have to wait and see if the shinners show what some would say are their "true colours". The only thing is though, half of Europe will be watching, being the day that is in it. Also, if you have any anti-OO stuff going on, the shinners will get blamed and you'll also have the general public saying "will you look at that, what a disgrace ... sure why are we suprised, sure didn't they do that bank job aswell"

The ball may well be in the shinners court !!
The general public would welcome them down.

[GavinZac]

The general public would welcome them down.

im in no way a republican, barely a catholic and only irish because i was born here (i dont get the pride thing).

but to invite an organisation that marches as a form of intimidation, provokation and celebration of a bloody battle that let to many more bloody battles, is ludicrous.
maybe there weill be a few apathists that dont mind seeing silly dresed men talking a walk, but from pre-teen pikey celtic fans to conditioned, proud old ladies, the general public will not be welcoming

[thecorner]

The ball may well be in the shinners court !!
The general public would welcome them down.


think u could be a part of a minority there, a face

[patsh]

Did a straw pole amongst a bunch of fairly politically apathetic friends of mine last night, and a few "older" citizens. All 9 people were fairly luke warm about the idea, and the older people totally against it. They didn't see why a group opposed to their religion and who are anti-pope should be allowed march in "our" parade. A lot of people think of Paisley who has spread nothing but hatred against us and our country, so they really don't want them here.

I'm not sure that too many people will welcome them, A Face.

[lopez]

...They were in the Paddys day parade in New York aswell...Are you sure about that? St Pat's Parade NY is run by the Catholic version of marching bigots, the Ancient Order of Hibernians. They don't like dem goddam faggots marching with them. Can't see them allowing the OO.

As for this visit, couldn't care less. In my opinion whenever they march in the Republic it sort of eliminates their 'triumphalism' and it turns into either farcical or entertaining 'culture'. And unlike the Garvaghy Road, they've been invited this time. Regarding religious bigotry, see the AOH for a Catholic version of that and it still didn't stop me watching the St Pat's parade in NY.

[Éanna]

I've long been of the opinion that people should adopt a different approach to dealing with this lot. Instead of protesting against them, stand at the side of the road, and when they walk past, just point and laugh. Ridicule them instead of giving them the satisfaction of annoying people- easier said than done I know.

As for this case, I really don't know. I would consider myself a nationalist, but in no way a catholic. That said, this group are sectarian and provocative as GavinZac said. I'd have no problem having any unionist/loyalist/protestant group involved in the parade, once they were not actively promoting discrimination, as this lot do. FFS, give the Shankill Rd Rangers Supporters Club their own float, but not this lot of dinosaurs.

[Lionel Ritchie]

Ah yes we Limerock folks have been having orange bands down for years (we knew our Corkonian brothers and sisters would catch up eventually ;) )...loyalist flute bands too ...and they always got nought but a hearty round of applause and a good day out. Bloody good bands too by all accounts. A key issue is though that they're invited to march rather than presuming to.

I don't feel their participation in celebrating the patron saint of their islands day in any way condones contentious marches in N.I.
There's usually a couple of letters of objection in the Leader and that's it -usually from the Republican Sinn Fein Loo-laas. The same ones who refer to "their Friend" Nelson Mandela, demand meetings with American Ambassadors to discuss their proposals for the peace process and who recieve less than seventy votes in an election. :rolleyes:

[dancinpants]

Lads, these guys have been marching all over the place in catholic countries, Italy, Germany, Poland, Iceland .. The States.

And the 26 counties EVERY summer!!!. Sure don't the have a wee parade in Rossknowlagh Co. Donegal every 12th July? And if memory serves me correct they have marched in Cavan and possibly Monaghan aswell!!!

[liam88]

Ah yes we Limerock folks have been having orange bands down for years (we knew our Corkonian brothers and sisters would catch up eventually ;) )...loyalist flute bands too ...and they always got nought but a hearty round of applause and a good day out. Bloody good bands too by all accounts.
I really do not understand......call me a bigot or whatever but I can't get my head round this.....the Limerick council or whoever invite loyalist flute bands the come and play songs like the sash and build my gallows etc. and everyone turns out to watch them....... :confused: what's going on?

Again; no being a bigot but surely it's just a bit strange.....I mean if I marched my mates down Guildford high street playing Kevin Barry, Merry Ploughboy and I took a s*at on the Union Jack I'm sure everyone round here would have something to say about it! (admittidly I've sung the first two in many public places and down many streets but at nothing organised!)

[Eire06]

Michael Collins is turning in his grave as we speak....

It is the worst Idea I've ever heard....

We were considering going to Cork for Paddy's day but think I'll stay where i am

[liam88]

Michael Collins is turning in his grave as we speak....

It is the worst Idea I've ever heard....

We were considering going to Cork for Paddy's day but think I'll stay where i am

Finally-someone speaking some sense!

They'll be laying a reef on bil*y w*ights grave next "from the people of Cork"; I'm just glad those dinasours arn't coming anywhere near Cobh

[liam88]

Are you sure about that? St Pat's Parade NY is run by the Catholic version of marching bigots, the Ancient Order of Hibernians. They don't like dem goddam faggots marching with them. Can't see them allowing the OO.

As for this visit, couldn't care less. In my opinion whenever they march in the Republic it sort of eliminates their 'triumphalism' and it turns into either farcical or entertaining 'culture'. And unlike the Garvaghy Road, they've been invited this time. Regarding religious bigotry, see the AOH for a Catholic version of that and it still didn't stop me watching the St Pat's parade in NY.

Have nothing against the AOH maself-they started up to protect Catholic Priests from c*omwells men and went on to protect Catholic Irish immigrants from religious persecution in America. They have built monuments for those perished in the famine and help one another out-they have recently raised a lot of money for the Tsunami relief :)

[liam88]

http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/4275523.stm :D

[patsh]

I have to say that I'm a little disappointed they are not coming, but maybe it's not the right time as I can see the Shinners making a big deal of it and mounting a protest against them and spoiling the whole thing.

Did anyone catch the discussion on the Last Word about this last night? The Sinn Fein "representative", unfortunately from my own area, was a disgrace. A blathering ignoramus with nothing to say, as usual.....:rolleyes:

[razor]

Did anyone catch the discussion on the Last Word about this last night? The Sinn Fein "representative", unfortunately from my own area, was a disgrace. A blathering ignoramus with nothing to say, as usual.....:rolleyes:Heard the first piece with the Orange guy, saying he was looking forward to it and that he had family in West Cork.
I guess if they are not given the chance then nothing will change but maybe its gone too far for that already.
Who was the SF rep?

[razor]

march where they are welcome,not where they demand...... They received a letter from the Lord Mayor inviting them down.

[lopez]

Heard the first piece with the Orange guy, saying he was looking forward to it and that he had family in West Cork.Not surprised they have relatives in the uO26C. It's where they all go to retire as they can get free electricity. :eek:

[SÓC]

OO & it's Oberfhurer I.K.Paisley

Paisley isnt involved in it, he has his own indepdent lodge who wear a kinda wine instead of orange.

Good old Paisley, he has his own political party, his own religion, his own village people-esque marching band, all he's sort is his own counrty

[lopez]

Dont think IKP would allow anything amounting to hard liquor eg.wine,into his world.........but it is true......he does live an archaic'unionist theme-park' bubble! :eek:Ever watch that very distressing programme about p*******on in the US. :mad: Horrific scenes of a a woman smashing up a bar in Kansas. Anyway, some eejit on there reckoned that Jesus never partook in wine but had grape juice 'just like you get in the grocer store.' FFS :rolleyes:

[Eire06]

St Patrick's day is a day to celebrate the life and works of St.Patrick our patron saint..
The OO march to celibrate beating the irish in battle...
Any one can celibrate and take part in St.Patricks day festivities..
Only Prodestants can take part in a OO march

Think the 2 should be seperate..
They should not have been invited to join...

And at that I heard that Sinn Fein never put in an official objection (not sayin they didn't complain about it) that it was the people of cork objected and wrote letters to the Mayor and the Gardai

[Eire06]

The Republicans really did blow up kids, round these parts they beat up people and ran guns. Fact. And for them to dictate who has the moral right to march in a parade would be funny if they didn't take it so seriously themselves.

Some soccer fans are hooigans does that mean that all soccer fans are hooligans??

[patsh]

The point here is that we all know the OO is a bigoted sectarian group. However, we must be the "bigger man" here, and take the first steps, as they won't. When they realise that we don't eat our children, hate all things British and are not anti-Protestant, some of their more ludicrous claims & myths will get harder and harder to sustain. Eventually, even the most hardened bigots would realise that an annual trip to Cork for the Parade would be an enjoyable break for a good time, and their anti-Irish positions would become untenable.

Somebody has to make the first move, I would prefer if it to be us.

[liam88]

To me, they both have scum aspects and they're perfectly placed beside each other in a parade.

Yeah just not in my County!

I ljust got to say here fair paly to Eire06 who has been making some qaulity posts around the forum :D

[SÓC]

Somebody has to make the first move, I would prefer if it to be us.


Hear Hear

Can you imagne the boys coming back to Belfast and tell all the other lads at the Lodge "Guess what lads ye wont believe this but...Taigs DONT actually eat their young at all"

[Eire06]

Yeah just not in my County!

I ljust got to say here fair paly to Eire06 who has been making some qaulity posts around the forum :D

Why thank you, I do try my best...

[Lionel Ritchie]

Yeah just not in my County!


So Liam are you comfortable with the idea the rule of law can't hold sway in "your" county? (thought you lived in London ;) ) and that these people -whatever you think of them, had to pull out coz their safety couldn't be guaranteed if the shinners started throwing their toys out of the pram?

[liam88]

So Liam are you comfortable with the idea the rule of law can't hold sway in "your" county? (thought you lived in London ;) ) and that these people -whatever you think of them, had to pull out coz their safety couldn't be guaranteed if the shinners started throwing their toys out of the pram?
Nah I actually live in Guildford ;) but as my Irish side is half Cork, half Tipp I have a right to say "my" with reference to Cork :D In fact I have a right to say my in reference to Akeab, Rangoon, Guildford, Tipp or Cork so there we go :D
Right now we've cleared that one up........no I'm not pleased that they had to pull out because of safety but I am pleased that they are pulling out. I'm fed up with the IRA/Sinn Fein and ma family once suffered because of them but I'm equally fed up with the Orange Order. They spend all their lives proclaiming that they arn't Irish then want to come to "The Rebel County" for St. Patricks day. In my opinion they are as little a part of our culture as the IRA are and I would be unhappy to see IRA, Sinnn Fein or the Orange order marching about on St. Patricks day. It's not meant to be political it's meant to be a celebration of St. Patrick and of our culture, we should have the local schools, sport clubs, churches , society's and clubs in the parade :)

[Éanna]

The point here is that we all know the OO is a bigoted sectarian group. However, we must be the "bigger man" here, and take the first steps, as they won't. When they realise that we don't eat our children, hate all things British and are not anti-Protestant, some of their more ludicrous claims & myths will get harder and harder to sustain. Eventually, even the most hardened bigots would realise that an annual trip to Cork for the Parade would be an enjoyable break for a good time, and their anti-Irish positions would become untenable.

Somebody has to make the first move, I would prefer if it to be us.


couldn't agree more. I remember hearing an interview with a youth group from the Shankill who were on some exchange trip in Kerry (helping rebuild that famine boat I think) and one of them said he was shocked when he came down- he expected the place to be full of priests and nuns! The only way to change opinions is to educate.


And how DARE Sinn Féin have the nerve to tell anyone what to do. Just who the f*ck do they represent? How many TDs or councillors do they have in Cork? there's a reason they don't get any votes, and thats the same reason they have no right to dictate what the people of Cork want.

[Andyh]

It's not meant to be political it's meant to be a celebration of our culture, we should have the local schools, sport clubs, churches , society's and clubs in the parade :)

I thought it was a celebration of the patron saint of Ireland, who brought christianity to the country. Can't really see where culture comes into it....

[Andyh]

Aye but coming from CarrickF.,I'm sure you're familiar with the 'popular' local concensus,that,er,they don't want to be Irish :rolleyes: by definition or culture! They prefer to save themselves for some day in July. :o

I'm sure there's plenty of people from towns like Carrickfergus celebrate Saint Patricks day in their own way, possibly not on floats in Belfast City Centre waving tricolours, and getting ****ed, but still. Maybe they'll go to Downpatrick and visit his grave at the local Church of Ireland.

[liam88]

I thought it was a celebration of the patron saint of Ireland, who brought christianity to the country. Can't really see where culture comes into it....
Sorry; of course it is, just me being stupid. I mean it is a day to celebrate our heritage and our country-all that St. Patrick represents :D

[lopez]

I thought it was a celebration of the patron saint of Ireland, who brought christianity to the country. Can't really see where culture comes into it....Long time no hear, Andy. One question: What would you define as culture?

[Andyh]

I know what you're trying to get at, and i suppose it could be seen as a cultural event in a way. But it should be religious culture, ie Christianity, rather than the celebration of nationality which, it has become. You know, kiss me I'm Irish hats, green beer, it's pretty much an americanised perversion of what the day was supposed to be.

[liam88]

I know what you're trying to get at, and i suppose it could be seen as a cultural event in a way. But it should be religious culture, ie Christianity, rather than the celebration of nationality which, it has become. You know, kiss me I'm Irish hats, green beer, it's pretty much an americanised perversion of what the day was supposed to be.
Very very good poitn Andy.
Guess over internationally it's a day when people recognise Irishness-i put culture as I took it as read that it is a primarily Christian ceromony; good point raised! :)

[lopez]

I know what you're trying to get at, and i suppose it could be seen as a cultural event in a way. But it should be religious culture, ie Christianity, rather than the celebration of nationality which, it has become. You know, kiss me I'm Irish hats, green beer, it's pretty much an americanised perversion of what the day was supposed to be.Strictly from a Christian point of view, St Patrick wouldn't get much of a fan base amongst dissenters. Only the RC and the CofI believe in saints. The point about Irish-Americanism is valid. In fact there are some Irish Americans that see this event as denigrating their community with what is considered a day of unadulterated boozing. Once again, The Simpsons got it right, when it parodied the Springfield St Patrick's Day Parade. Sidestepping slightly, in Christian (or rather Catholic) terms, St Patrick's Day is not solely an Irish event. The day is listed on Spanish calenders (a saint for nearly every day) and he is honoured in Murcia as there was a battle against the Moors won on that day and so the victory was granted by St Patrick's blessed intervention.

[Troy.McClure]

Any one can celibrate and take part in St.Patricks day festivities..
Only Prodestants can take part in a OO march

Think the 2 should be seperate..



Look up the meaning of hypocrisy :o

[razor]

The point here is that we all know the OO is a bigoted sectarian group.No more so than the GAA and surely they can march. :confused:

[Soko]

couldn't agree more. I remember hearing an interview with a youth group from the Shankill who were on some exchange trip in Kerry (helping rebuild that famine boat I think) and one of them said he was shocked when he came down- he expected the place to be full of priests and nuns! The only way to change opinions is to educate.





They must have right thick *******s so. This invitation was a disaster from the beginning and thankfully the OO have decommited from their trip down south. If I never talk to a person from the North again or have to go there again I'll die a happy man. Scum filled,sectarian cess pool of hate, they can leave all up there for all I care, whatever side they are on.

[patsh]

No more so than the GAA and surely they can march. :confused:
There is an ocean of difference between the two organisations, and it's that kind of lazy comparison which do no good at all and just make the situation worse.
If you think for even one minute that the two organisations are similar, then you know nothing about either of them.

[Éanna]

No more so than the GAA and surely they can march. :confused:
I can't stand the GAA, but that is well wide of the mark IMO. The OO is absolutely and utterly sectarian in its intentions- i.e. only Protestants can join. Thats not the case with the GAA.

[Andyh]

If I never talk to a person from the North again or have to go there again I'll die a happy man. Scum filled,sectarian cess pool of hate, they can leave all up there for all I care, whatever side they are on.

We love you too.......... :eek:

[Green Tribe]

Soko, how can u be so general about people from Northern Ireland? The only way you can come to a valid conclusion IMO is to spend some time there, actually live there, get to know the people. Yes , there are some bitter nasty people, but u get that everywhere. I don't know where you have encountered these type of people or when, but for me i only encountered sectarianism and anti-irish/catholic sentiments when i came to scotland a few years ago. in nearly 20 years in northern ireland i experienced no personal sectarianism. as for the shankhill group who came to help build the famine boat and were shocked not to find the country filled with priests and nuns, they were probably having a laugh. i knew one girl from dublin who did not know who the OO were! but i don't assume everyone from Ireland is so misinformed. WHy don't u try to come here with an open mind? i hate discussions about northern ireland, young people from there are fed up with it(sure andyh will agree), but i couldn't sit back and let soko spout his nastiness about my people. hello davros, good to see u are back alive and well, if not unhappy..... :rolleyes:

[Green Tribe]

:d :d :d :d