Keano to quit!

[sadloserkid]

ans slk as i have already stated many cork people dislike roy too, i'm not geographically racial mi amigo :rolleyes:

Yet you've already managed to throw jibes at Dublin and Kerry in this thread. Weird huh?

[Éanna]

brought about the resignation of one mick mccarthy. kerr is a much superior manager.
Has Kerr got us to a world cup finals? When he does, then maybe you can think of calling him a superior manager. McCarthy was probably the best manager the Republic of Ireland has had to date. I think Kerr will be better in the long run, but right now, he's proved nothing.

[martin_rules_ie]

...On that basis, Niall Quinn and Gary Kelly walk on water...

i was simply referring to the comment that roy is a 'horrible ambassador' for ireland. what a horrible man he is :rolleyes:

[martin_rules_ie]

Has Kerr got us to a world cup finals? When he does, then maybe you can think of calling him a superior manager. McCarthy was probably the best manager the Republic of Ireland has had to date. I think Kerr will be better in the long run, but right now, he's proved nothing.

women's intuition.. call it what you will! IMO kerr has proved he is a good manager and i feel, like you Eanna, that he indeed will be a great one. he is superior

[tiktok]

McCarthy was probably the best manager the Republic of Ireland has had to date.

It's funny that Saipan has created this Roy -v- Mick split where neither side dares to acknowledge the merits of the other. It's resulted in a load of people being of the impression that McCarthy was a poor manager, which he wasn't, he was fine, an improvement on Charlton anyway, though the man got us to major finals, we're still living with the tags of being a physical long ball side.

[Closed Account 2]

Dont think McCarthy was that great to be honest (ignoring the Saipan incident etc)... Getting to WC2002 was great, but missing out on France98, and Euro2000 were missed oppertunities. We were a better team, man for man, than the Belgians and probably as good as the Turks in 2000... we should have shut those games against Macedonia etc down, it was very sloppy that last minute corner in Skjope (or Titov Vales or where ever it was). Mick had 3 tournaments to qualify for :-

France 98.
----------

We had Romania, ourselves, Lithuania, Macedonia, Iceland and Litchenstein. Romania were a good side and had a 100% record till the last match except 1 draw. I'd still like to think our team of 96-97 could have matched them or at least won at home - but we finished 10 points behind them (28pts, we had 18pts). That was sloppy. We drew at home with Iceland (0-0), lost in Macedonia (3-2 the McAteer tackle game), lost in Romania (tricky fixture - fair enough), and then drew at home to Lithuania and Romania (should have picked up at least 4 points there, if not 6). We woefully underperformed for that tournament. I'd like to think with better performances we could have piped Romania - if not we could have picked up points against the lesser teams and taken the best European second place slot (which the Scots got) and gone to France that way.

Euro 2000
---------

The former Yugoslav group:-

Croatia, ourselves, Yugoslavia, Macedonia, the Maltese.

We had a decent start, beat the Croats 2-0, and the Maltese 5-0 (both home) - good results. Then went down 1-0 in Belgrade, but beat them 2-1 at LR. We then lost 1-0 in Croatia and just beat Macedonia 1-0 at LR, and again a narrow win (3-2) in Malta. The final match was vs Macedonia which we drew 1-1. Had we won that, which we should have - we would have gone thru in 1st place. But the truth was our away form was very poor, we lost against the 2 bigger teams and our performances in Valetta and Skjope were poor. The Croats and Yugoslavs drew their games against each other which meant they picked up only 2 points from those games - those were great results from our point of view and we should have exploited that and done better.

The net result was from post Usa94 to Wc2002 we were probably the best team not to qualify for a major tournament, 2/3rds of that was on Mick's watch - that was a poor showing.

Ironically the one Mick got us to, was the one where we had the hardest group (Us, Portugal, Dutch, Estonia, Cyprus and Andorra) - we did very well to get thru that group as on paper we were the 3rd strongest team, but we finished level on points with the Portuguese (who got 1st place) and 4 above the Dutch. I'd also say he should never have let Kilbane and Ratboy take the pens vs Spain, as sure as night follows day Ratboy was going to muck up that pen, he should have put Clinton on instead of Ratboy, and/or he should have got Duff (or forced Quinn) to take pens.

Also dont forget the results in Moscow and vs the Swiss at LR were poor imo.

[1MickCollins]

With that sort of 'clannish' parochial attitude :rolleyes: it's hardly a surprise!

As always you miss the point.

[Superhoops]

As always you miss the point.


Seems like you have an infantile and irrational dislike of all things Cork, even your location says "Not Cork (thank God"). Grow up kid and stop being a dick.


which is fair enough, i understand that.
but, my opinion is that your opinion is fuelled by your anti-cork attitude and/or black and white perspetive of things...


dont u just love misinformed muppets...!! i'm not pointing any fingers though ....kerr's tribe, you are talking rubbish


its actually physically painful reading your posts conor


thats not imaginative, thats down-right silly.. i'll leave the silliness to the kerry men

QUOTE=martin_rules_ie]on this page alone you can see that cosmo, macy and colinR are being totally level-headed and sensible in their approah to this topic, they don't seem to be anti-cork.[/QUOTE]

Cork has spoken! Super-intellects, what chance have the rest of us got?

[Metrostars]

Roy Keane may "unquit" after all: http://soccernet.espn.go.com/headlinenews?id=325008&cc=5739

Not unexpected.

[tricky_colour]

Roy Keane may "unquit" after all: http://soccernet.espn.go.com/headlinenews?id=325008&cc=5739

Not unexpected.

I guess there is a fine line between quitting and negotiating a new contract :D

Obviously he can't go on forever, but he does, like Man U, seem
to be going through a period of improved form.

[1MickCollins]

QUOTE=martin_rules_ie]on this page alone you can see that cosmo, macy and colinR are being totally level-headed and sensible in their approah to this topic, they don't seem to be anti-cork.

Cork has spoken! Super-intellects, what chance have the rest of us got?[/QUOTE]

This forum is dying if this is what you are going to sink to, stop bashing players and other posters and start being constructive.

[Macy]

Keane has done yet another about turn as, yet again, Uncle Alex has spoken and made up his mind for him.

Well, at least there's none of the usual rubbish about principles and back injuries.
He actually said as things stand this'll be his last contract. If his body is still in good shape, and he's still good enough for United then he may play on. Do you actually listen to him speak, or hear some gobshíte like Des Cahill say it so it must be true?

[Macy]

It's straight copy out of the Mirror! :confused:

Well, what he said (i.e. it was on the radio this morning of him actually speaking rather than a quote in a paper) is that he still sees it as his last contract, but if he feels up to it and the management team of Fergie, Queiroz and Phelan think he's still good enough he may reconsider. He was quite clear that he'd only stay on for United - so Davros won't see his dream of Keane in a Celtic shirt...

[Cowboy]

Has Kerr got us to a world cup finals? When he does, then maybe you can think of calling him a superior manager. McCarthy was probably the best manager the Republic of Ireland has had to date. I think Kerr will be better in the long run, but right now, he's proved nothing.


Rubbish, hes already proven that he can win championships and tournaments.

[Peadar]

McCarthy was probably the best manager the Republic of Ireland has had to date.

If McCarthy was a good "Manager" he would have handled the Saipan affair with some degree of professionalism.
There's more to football management than results on the pitch.

[martin_rules_ie]

...That would be only worth it,to annoy some of his small-minded EL neighbours on here.......

would you mind elaborating on that?

certain people on this forum are pessimistic armchair managers. they will not listen to anyones take on a certain issue and have a black and white perception of things. while it is unfair to say that mick was totally at fault for saipan (the FAI equally deserved blame).
kerr is a better manager than mccarthy
ireland are a different team with keane (and why should he play meaningless friendlies when we know what he is capable of. why should he cripple himself to wear the green shirt? roy loves his football and he can prolong his career by playing important games (ie qualifiers)
people love to stir the sh*t here by knocking keane no matter what he does. if he does sign a new contract with manu, so what??

[martin_rules_ie]

keane in his early days as a footballer had a bad temper which opponents used against him but that is no longer an issue. keane supposedly called mccarthy a w*nker (which he is) but should have not said it publicly.
the above IMO are his faults. he does NOT put club before country. he simply has a view that friendly games are taking years off his career. i'd rather he miss friendlies and be there for our big games that really count.

mccarthy has good points, he got us to WC2002. but he did not get us to WC98, euro2000 and destroyed our hopes of euro 2004. mccarthy was not great with man management. his biggest fault was innterogating keane in front of his fellow players.

kerr has not put a foot wrong so far. he cannot be blamed for the failure to qualify for euro 2004

[Macy]

I completely agree. 'Keane is great', 'McCarthy is bad', 'Kerr is great'. Don't you just hate it? No allowance that Keane may have faults, or McCarthy and Kerr have good and bad points...
LOL No allowance that Keane may have good points either though Conor? :D

[martin_rules_ie]

The red cards, the foul on Haaland, the drinking, the chasing refs around the place, the World Cup qualifier, the whole debacle surrounding his return to Kerr's team. Are they not faults?

red cards are down to his temper which is no longer a problem with him. i'd rather roy get red cards for being passionate and getting stuck in than someone like holland who gets lost in some games.
the foul on haaland was provoked. it was a nasty thing to do but we all make mistakes and i doubt roy thought the challenge was going to end his career. has roy's drinking which is over-hyped ever effected his playing performances?? NO
chasing refs? how many players sprint 30 yards on a pitch to give out to refs? thats not a fault, its part of the modern game unfortunately.
roy had to decide if changes had been made before he could return and also wether his body could take it.




Why not? It was in our hands with what should have been manageable games against Russia and Switzerland. The former was one of the most inept performances ever by an Irish team, the latter a disaster. He doesn't even have McCarthy's excuse of trying to change the players and game plan.


i'm not even going to argue with you about that.. :rolleyes:

[Cowboy]

How did we fare against Russia at home and Switzerland away then last time out?

I hope Kerr gets us there of course, but cannot simply forget how utterly crap some of the competitive performances have been.

it is truly ridiculous to judge him on these games. Fair judgement can only be made at the end of a qualifying campaign not two games. Brian Kerr has shown an outstanding ability to get the best from players in his charge evidenced in the trophies he has won to date

[martin_rules_ie]

He walked his dog while his colleagues and his country played football.

I'm sure dog lovers would find that extremely admirable...

;)


you are such a narrow minded individual
how does this prove your point?

[martin_rules_ie]

Ummm, hate to point out the obvious, but those two games came the end of the qualifying campaign... :rolleyes:

were you trying to be funny or was that a serious comment? either way you sounded like an ass.
i think cowboy meant after kerr has a full qualification campaign, judgement can be made fairly! :rolleyes:

[Macy]

Yes;If RMK was ever to wear the Hoops :o ...the one good thing it would do is shut-up his local supporters back in the Southern wilderness,who suffer from a great delusion that the world of soccer begins & ends with some mediocre EL team................ :p
He'd just be moving from one British team playing at the top of a good league to another British team playing at the top of an extremely average league. What that has to do with the eL is beyond me.

[martin_rules_ie]

Yes;If RMK was ever to wear the Hoops :o ...the one good thing it would do is shut-up his local supporters back in the Southern wilderness,who suffer from a great delusion that the world of soccer begins & ends with some mediocre EL team................ :p

sorry if i seem a bit stupid here, but i think i'm totally missing your point here. are you saying that if roy signed for celtic that would make his 'supporters' in cork back down in support for him? :confused:
and what would this have to do with CCFC?? :confused:

i love this board! comedy.... :D

[martin_rules_ie]

The abuse is getting stronger I see.

You may have your opinion on me, but at least I know the rules of the board. Check out that one about attacking the post not the poster etc. etc. Send me a PM if you want to get abusive.

i wouldnt waste my time PMing you mi amigo.
i didnt call you an ass, i said you sounded like one in a previous post.

ok let me rephrase it: your posts give off a narrow-minded attitude ;)

[Cowboy]

Ummm, hate to point out the obvious, but those two games came the end of the qualifying campaign... :rolleyes:

I'm not saying we should get bogged down in his failures. I hope Kerr does very well. But to simply forget or omit parts of his career to advance an argument is weak.

Yes of course they did but he was not in charge of the complete campaign nor did he have time to run a few friendlies before hand, I think you know this and are being mischievious. If we are to use your logic he should have been sacked after these games. To ignore the reality of the situation he found himself in is truly weak

Fact is he our most successful manager at underage level and I have no doubt he will go on to be our most successful at senior level.

[martin_rules_ie]

Fact is he our most successful manager at underage level and I have no doubt he will go on to be our most successful at senior level.

here here :cool:

[Cowboy]

I never said anything of the sort. I just didn't pretend those games never existed. Believe it or not, Kerr is not actually perfect.



Put the crystal ball aside. At the moment, in terms of wins per games played, who is our most successful senior manager?

I dont believe anyone here has pretended those games did not exist. I'm not using a crystal ball, my view is based on several factors among those being Brian Kerrs undoubted talent as a manager , his attention to preparation and detail and his man management skills.

Wins per games played at this point in his career is of little benefit to a balanced view, time will tell. I choose to await the outcome, it seems you choose to judge on selectively limited evidence.

[martin_rules_ie]

Leave you to work that one out......... :rolleyes:

ya you proved your point there..... :rolleyes:

[Éanna]

Keane has done yet another about turn as, yet again, Uncle Alex has spoken and made up his mind for him.

Well, at least there's none of the usual rubbish about principles and back injuries.
well said that man :) Why doesn't Keane just answer every question with "Ask Alex", he might as well

[Éanna]

Rubbish, hes already proven that he can win championships and tournaments.
not at this level. Like I said, I think Kerr has done a great job, and will leave a great legacy, but as yet, he has NOT done as well as McCarthy.


Fact is he our most successful manager at underage level and I have no doubt he will go on to be our most successful at senior level.
See, you even said it yourself. He will do, but he hasn't yet.


If McCarthy was a good "Manager" he would have handled the Saipan affair with some degree of professionalism.
There's more to football management than results on the pitch.
And if keane was a model professional, he wouldn't have thrown a hissy fit. IMO, the only way McCarthy could have been more professional about it was telling Keane to f*ck off when he had his tantrum and not given him a second chance. I never liked McCarthy- if you remember my posts on this and other forums, I was always a big critic, but its only fair to acknowledge how well he did.

[Cowboy]

Eanna

The logical extension to your way of thinking is that jack charlton was a better manager than Mc carthy since he got us to a WC 1/4 final . If we had the priveledge to ask national managers around Europe what they think of Brian kerr I think you will find he has little to prove in terms of his managerial talent.

Kerr was once asked to speak at a coaching conference entitled " The Irish Miracle" all about how he achieved so much at underage level.

[Éanna]

The logical extension to your way of thinking is that jack charlton was a better manager than Mc carthy since he got us to a WC 1/4 final . If we had the priveledge to ask national managers around Europe what they think of Brian kerr I think you will find he has little to prove in terms of his managerial talent.
You're either missing my point, or choosing to ignore it. I know how good a manager Kerr is. We all do. But he has not done as well with Ireland as McCarthy has, YET. I have little doubt that he will, but as yet, he hasn't. That clear enough for you?

[Cowboy]

Y That clear enough for you?

is condescension really necessary ?

[Cowboy]

but you forget to mention all his previous achievments, I gave the example of the coaching conference merely as an example of the high esteem he is held throughout europe.

However I think maybe our debate has run its course and perhaps we should review at the end of the world cup ( i hate to tempt fate by saying the qualifying campaign)



Don't want to be dismissive, but the phrase 'big deal' springs to mind.

In the annals of great managers, they won't have:-

Helenio Herrera - won everything with Inter Milan and Barcelona

Brian Clough - took a provincial team to the top in England, then took a different provincial team to the top in Europe

Bob Paisley - won everything at Liverpool

Brian Kerr - once asked to speak at a coaching conference entitled " The Irish Miracle" all about how he achieved so much at underage level...

It would be nice if, by the end of his career, they can stick 'managed Ireland to their first senior World Cup triumph', but I wouldn't start blowing the trumpet just yet.

[Éanna]

is condescension really necessary ?
You completely missed/ignored my point, so I spelt it out.

[Cowboy]

You completely missed/ignored my point, so I spelt it out.


I did neither but I think theres little point debating you further if you consider condescension and insult to be polite and reasoned debate.

[Éanna]

I did neither but I think theres little point debating you further if you consider condescension and insult to be polite and reasoned debate.
You did one or the other, because I made a point, and you replied to my post completely misinterpreting the point I made.

[tiktok]

'ManU' your favourite club then Martin?

What's your point Conor, that Manchester United fans can't take a step back and offer an objective view?
I suppose Leeds fans hatred of all thing Fergie-related leaves them as perfectly detached observers ;) :p

[Macy]

Back to the McCarthy v Kerr debate.

Regardless as poor the performance was against in the final game of the last qualifying campaign, it simply cannot be compared to the defeat (and subsequent draw) with Macedonia.

The Anti McCarthy people are always branded with it being all about Keane. McCarthy was a crap manager long before Saipan, his continued picking of favourites who were out of form etc.

Anyone think that Kerr wouldn't have spotted Spain were down to 10 men, the way McCarthy didn't?

[Junior]

Anyone think that Kerr wouldn't have spotted Spain were down to 10 men, the way McCarthy didn't?

Out of interest did McCarthy ever admit to not spotting that Spain were down to 10 men or is this just an assumption made as he didn't change the team formation as a result?

[Macy]

Out of interest did McCarthy ever admit to not spotting that Spain were down to 10 men or is this just an assumption made as he didn't change the team formation as a result?
He was asked straight after the match was it disappointing not to beat 10 men in extra time, and his answer was something like "were they?" or something similar. I'll try and find the exact question and answer if I get the chance today. Was definitely in one of the papers around the time, could've been Paul Howard (Turbine) thinking about it.

[tricky_colour]

I will hold my hand up and say I didn't spot it either, but then I am
not the manager.

[Éanna]

The Anti McCarthy people are always branded with it being all about Keane. McCarthy was a crap manager long before Saipan, his continued picking of favourites who were out of form etc.

and the anti-keane people are always branded with it being all about McCarthy.

[Junior]

I will hold my hand up and say I didn't spot it either, but then I am
not the manager.

Me too, I was at the game but didn't realise until I'd read the match reports etc. Neither did the 3 lads that were with me. If he didn't realise then it is a high profile mistake however in all honesty with the tension of the occasion I do have some sympathy with him (Im probably too soft though!)

[martin_rules_ie]

...and maybe i am biased for roy...

as is seen above, i never denied being bias

because i support manu, i'm not allowed give an opinion? your bias is what formulates opinions!

you have a bias against roy,
i have a bias for roy! ;)

[NeilMcD]

Roy sheds a little light on charity effort
Tom Humphries reports



SOCCER: The theme of the day was shades, but the star attraction needed no movie star props with which to wow the crowd. For hours on end he was meeted and greeted, handled and gladhanded, fondled and ferried.

He was quizzed and questioned. He petted puppy dogs and kissed babies. He made jokes with the media. He small-talked the Taoiseach. He came, he saw, he stayed for the reception.

Roy Keane, immortalised on stage and in screen, hit the genteel southside of Dublin yesterday. Bam! The occasion was the launch of an Irish Guide Dogs funding and awareness campaign which over the next few weeks will encourage the public to sport miniature sunglasses on their lapels, having first made a donation of €2 to get the shades.

Specsavers, a visit to whose premises Keane has suggested to many referees over the years, are behind the campaign, but Roy Keane is the main enforcer.

Good cause, but nevertheless the questions came in an odd ratio. One about the charity, 36 or 37 about football.

Football first. Rumours of Roy's retirement are greatly exaggerated. Alex Ferguson told him so on Saturday.

"In fairness, I just said that I thought my last contract would be just that, the last big contract I would have at United.

"I didn't actually mean to announce retirement, but I suppose when you use the words I used you can't expect it to be taken up any other way.

"Anyway, on Saturday at the training ground the gaffer told me that he would decide who retired and when. That's fair enough."

The hips? Those hips that an entire nation has fretted about? They're fine, better than ever.

"I think this year I've got the balance right between playing and rest. I used to always want to do everything. Now I take my rest properly, I do yoga a couple of times a week - not the meditation sort of stuff (disappointment on the faces of all those who wanted to ask what mantra Keane softly chants), but a version that stretches you a lot. I do it, Ryan Giggs does it and David Bellion does it. It really works for us."

What next? The Roy Keane Diet and Workout Video? Don't rule it out. Apart from the outbreak of civil unrest in the Highbury tunnel, which it seems meant far less to Roy than it did to the rest of the world, Keane is the picture of contentment these days.

The business of his return to the Irish team, his reassimilation, his hopes for the future - or, more particularly - for the summer of 2006, were all brushed aside politely.

"I've moved on with my life," he said with a smile, before outlining the precise gradient of the mountain Ireland have yet to climb before talk of fond farewells in Germany.

Of the I, Keano phenomenon he had heard good things, but wouldn't be sampling the smell of the crowd and the roar of the greasepaint in the near future.

"I haven't time, to be honest. I've enough going on."

If they obliged and brought the production to Manchester? Keano en famille in a box for a Royal Command Performance.

"Well, maybe if I got a free ticket."

It should be.

It dawned on us slowly that he wasn't going to be rising to any bait on this crisp Monday afternoon. The man has his offdays on the controversy front.

Back to more straightforward stuff. Tell us the future, Roy. Will the unfinished business of your last World Cup be driving and inspiring you over the next few months?

"My last World Cup?" he mused with a grin. "1994?"

And that was it. He wouldn't insult Celtic or the Scottish League by announcing that when he was well and truly old and crocked he'd go and play there. To Martin O'Neill's opinion that Keane would never leave United, Keane replied, "Martin is a clever man."

And of the possibility of ever managing Ireland? Well, let's just say that the FAI might be more of a hindrance than a help in recruitment terms.

Finally, the charity. It was a struggle staying on message, but why guide dogs?

"They approached me about three years ago to give a little time and I was delighted. I know there's a lot of good charities out there, but this one appealed to me. I'd like to give more time than I do. Maybe in the future."

That's one side. Why choose Roy Keane as your front man? Well, any other soccer star would have been the bland leading the blind

[Cowboy]

That's fair enough. But it seems such a long time to bite my tongue... ;)

But don't leave Eanna off the hook so easily!!



please wade in at any time between now and then :)

Eanna takes all the good out of the debate when he resorts to insults so takes the fun out of it and i lose interest :)

[martin_rules_ie]

...."My last World Cup?" he mused with a grin. "1994?"....

comic genious :D

[Cowboy]

comic genious :D

yes but his comic talent pales in comparison to the clowns in the FAI :)