Trump

[SkStu]

Found this today while browsing. Kind of challenges the popular narrative.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/article/2614043?platform=hootsuite


Now, it turns out Robart might not know as much as he let on. Last summer, the Senate Judiciary Subcommittee on Immigration and the National Interest analyzed public sources of information, seeking to learn more about people convicted of terror-related offenses. The Justice Department provided the subcommittee with a list of 580 people who were convicted — not just arrested, but tried and convicted — of terror-related offenses between Sept. 11, 2001 and Dec. 31, 2014.

The subcommittee investigated further and found that at least 380 of the 580 were foreign-born and that an additional 129 were of unknown origin. Of the 380, there were representatives — at least 60 — from all of the countries on the Trump executive order list. And with 129 unknowns, there might be more, as well.

In addition, since the Senate list was compiled, there have been others involved in terrorism in the United States from the seven countries. One highly-publicized example was the case of Abdul Artan, a Somali refugee who last November wounded 11 people with a machete during an attack on the campus of Ohio State University. In fairness to Judge Robart, Artan was shot and killed by police — not arrested — so perhaps the judge didn't count him.

[Real ale Madrid]

60 convictions over the course of 13 years,and no American killed at the hands of terror related activity in that time from the 7 banned countries.

So the justification for a ban is zero deaths and an average of 4.6 convictions per year.

On the face of it US Immigration did a good job keeping Americans safe over that period - I wonder how 4.6 convictions per year for those 7 countries stands up v convictions of Irish people, Canadian etc.

I don't know about you - but that seems a bit heavy handed to me, kind of confirms the popular narrative also - the judge was incorrect in his assertion mind you.

[SkStu]

Typical liberal loony thinking! ^^

Many media sites publishing info on the many terrorist attacks that have been carried out over the last number of years. It's surprising how easy it has been for Trump to get the media to defeat their own narrative.

[geysir]

Something is different about Trump than previous incumbents that inspires such unprecedented protests. It's as if he embodies deep troublesome echoes of Nazism, the McCarthy witchhunt era and the civil rights era of KKK like generated fear against Black Americans having their civil rights and having them protected.
And anyone who objects to Trump is labelled a "lefty", they obviously haven't met our Joe Higgins:D
"Left" must be the most abused term in american english.

So far Trump has adopted positions he loudly mocked his "crooked" political rivals about and done an about turn.
He's stocked his cabinet with six top donors,
tapped 2 ex Goldman Sachs employees to lead the economic policy,
family business overlapping,
and didn't prosecute crooked Hilary.

Generally free market economy calls for a centralised state system to maintain order and it follows there's a huge shift called the "great moving right show" to develop the repressive apparatus.
For example in Thatcher's time it was the
POTA - the first big instrument to normalise the politics of repression in Britain.
The Contempt of Court Act 1981(reporting ban on trials - in the national interest )
The Employment Acts 1980/2 (trade union repression)
etc etc. the list just goes on and on

In the US, the catch all is the Patriot Act, literally quote national security (no case need be argued or scrutinised) and it's off to the isolation tank, indefinitely. The president can quote national security as justification for any order. Then there is the Dept of Homeland Security with 240,000 employees and a budget of >$40bn p/a.
In the US, the bathroom holds an infinitely greater threat of lethal terror than the refugee does.

[Real ale Madrid]

Think being labelled a "lefty liberal" is quite the opposite of an insult tbh. Most like the tag. A vast array of Americans in general have a deep irrational fear of anything "left", as if its the first step to communism.

[geysir]

I was more referring to an abuse of the term "left" when being used to label a democrat, than the democrat being abused by being labelled a lefty :)

The "lefty liberal" tag is another tag altogether, Only in America!

[geysir]

I had never watched this Sat Night Live (http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/february-4-kristen-stewart/3462405) thing on US tv station NBC but since Trump came along I never miss it. The program's available on their website, open viewing.
In the beginning I thought it was all SNL content but then somebody told me they had adverts about every 15 minutes. In my defense, I find it difficult to separate the real content from the parody in certain parts of the world.

edit, I see that SNL is geoblocked if you don't use some method to de-geoblock.

[geysir]

60 convictions over the course of 13 years,and no American killed at the hands of terror related activity in that time from the 7 banned countries.

So the justification for a ban is zero deaths and an average of 4.6 convictions per year.

On the face of it US Immigration did a good job keeping Americans safe over that period - I wonder how 4.6 convictions per year for those 7 countries stands up v convictions of Irish people, Canadian etc.

I don't know about you - but that seems a bit heavy handed to me, kind of confirms the popular narrative also - the judge was incorrect in his assertion mind you.
You're shooting fish in a barrel when it comes to challenging a Trump belch with considered facts.
That Washington Examiner rag couldn't even challenge a flat earth National Enquirer headline.
Apparently, that there's a one in 4 billion chance of a real real American getting a toenail broken by a "muslim terrorist" is a false news item propagated by really really bad people, according to Trump. In an explanation to his electorate, Trump stated
“radical Islamic” terrorist attacks are “not even being reported” by the “very, very dishonest press.”

In an Irish political landscape, Trump would probably tick most of the boxes of the creationist DUP, considering the depth of paranoia/fear/suspicion and conspiracy theories, being such a large part of their political appeal.

[Real ale Madrid]

Court upholds stay on Muslim Ban.

Trump responds with - "see you in court". :confused:

[osarusan]

Court upholds stay on Muslim Ban.

Trump responds with - "see you in court...and buy my daughter's clothes". :confused:

Fixed that for you.

[dahamsta]

I had never watched this Sat Night Live (http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/february-4-kristen-stewart/3462405) thing on US tv station NBC but since Trump came along I never miss it. The program's available on their website, open viewing.

SNL was on a major downward spiral the last few years, Trump is a gift to them.

Alec Balwin's Trump (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZOF9q5fzfs) is brilliant, and Melissa McCarthy's Sean Spicer (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWuc18xISwI) is the funniest thing I've seen on there in years. Rosie O'Donnell is now angling for a slot as Steve Bannon, egged on by users from Reddit, have a look at her profile pic on Twitter (https://twitter.com/Rosie?) today. (O'Donnell has feuded with Trump for years now.)

Baldwin is hosting SNL this week, it's likely to be a corker.

[Eminence Grise]

Court upholds stay on Muslim Ban.

Trump responds with - "see you in court". :confused:

'Oh no, not court,' say judges.:cool:

[SkStu]

Honestly, how is this in anyway productive? The tactics being employed by the left and the Dems are far more worrying and damaging to the country than anything Trump has done so far. Left wing extremism is as vile as it's right wing equivalent.

https://twitter.com/abc7news/status/830078974889959429

[Real ale Madrid]

Honestly, how is this in anyway productive? The tactics being employed by the left and the Dems are far more worrying and damaging to the country than anything Trump has done so far. Left wing extremism is as vile as it's right wing equivalent.

https://twitter.com/abc7news/status/830078974889959429
In fairness it's about as productive as giving De Vos that job in the first place.

You'd wonder why people feel so strongly about the likes of De Vos wouldn't you?

[Real ale Madrid]

Trump refers to Sen. Warren as Pocahontas during a Senators meeting. Disgusting.

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/02/trump-voter-fraud-senators-meeting-234909

[SkStu]

Trump refers to Sen. Warren as Pocahontas during a Senators meeting. Disgusting.

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/02/trump-voter-fraud-senators-meeting-234909

Damn right - it's Fauxcahontas. He needs to get this stuff right.

[Wolfman]

Why the pro-Frump rhetoric?

[SkStu]

In fairness it's about as productive as giving De Vos that job in the first place.

You'd wonder why people feel so strongly about the likes of De Vos wouldn't you?

I think it will be far less harmful than Obama picking Clinton as his Secretary of State.

[SkStu]

Why the pro-Frump rhetoric?

This is why:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-cqIo6-TCBHE/VLqzfFqm_UI/AAAAAAAAvIQ/KcDqESDUM8A/s1600/1.png

[Real ale Madrid]

Why the pro-Frump rhetoric?

SkSku is having understandable trouble forgiving the Obama administration for the Fraggle Rock Massacre.

[mark12345]

Thank you

[Wolfman]

This is why:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-cqIo6-TCBHE/VLqzfFqm_UI/AAAAAAAAvIQ/KcDqESDUM8A/s1600/1.png

Yeah, so what? What's that got to do with Frump being an assh*le?

[SkStu]

So what? Really? Do you not see any problems or have an issue with having 95% of your news controlled by very few people?

I'm not saying Trump isn't an ******* (show me a politician that isn't) but there is a balance to the reporting that is sorely missing. Admittedly he makes it easy as he is ridiculously public, forthright and vocal with his opinions. But give me that any day over the clandestine garbage we tolerate as acceptable from our leaders.

Also, I have few issues with almost all of his major policy positions.

[Wolfman]

That has happened regardless. What is Frump going to do? Nothing...

[SkStu]

No it hasn't. Our news, as recently as the 90's, was far more diverse and decentralized. In fact, it was night and day.

Trump has already done more in a month than previous administrations did in a term. You mightn't like it all (or any) and that's fine too.

[Real ale Madrid]

Trump has already done more in a month than previous administrations did in a term. You mightn't like it all (or any) and that's fine too.

Interesting article here : (you will rubbish the source) http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/02/every-terrifying-thing-that-donald-trump-has-done.html

So... what has Trump done since elected.....

As President
Week 6 2017
• Declared the “court system” a threat to national security.
• Then, he framed the existence of judicial review as a sign of national decline.
• Insisted that his Supreme Court pick had no problem with attacks on the judiciary, in the face of blatant evidence to the contrary.
• Trashed New START during a call with Putin — after putting the phone aside to ask his advisers what that (nuclear-arms treaty) was.
• Publicly condemned a private company for dropping his daughter’s (increasingly unpopular) fashion line.
• Suggested that publicly criticizing his military decisions is tantamount to aiding “the enemy.”
• Got angry at his press secretary for being impersonated by a woman.

Week 5 2017
• Used the executive branch’s immense authority over border control to inflict arbitrary cruelty on thousands of Muslim immigrants, create chaos at airports all across America, and sour diplomatic relations with the rest of the world.
• Violated court orders against his travel ban.
• Created a diplomatic crisis with Australia — and threatened to invade Mexico.
• Allowed his press secretary to falsely claim that Iran had committed an act of war against the United States.
• Retained the author of a reactionary screed that likened the 2016 election to Flight 93 as a national-security staffer.
• Suggested that Frederick Douglass is still alive in speech on Black History Month.

Week 4 2017
• Told a demonstrable lie about the size of the crowd at his inauguration — and predicted that the media would “pay a big price” for refusing to repeat it.
• Told congressional leaders at a private meeting that he only lost the popular vote because undocumented immigrants cast millions of ballots against him.
• Suggested America might once again have the opportunity to confiscate Iraq’s oil.
• Allowed his company to leverage the cachet of his election into a massive expansion of its hotel empire.
• Ordered the Department of Homeland Security to issue a weekly list of crimes (allegedly) committed by undocumented immigrants in sanctuary cities.
• Prepared to radically reduce American funding to the United Nations.
• Signed a bevy of executive orders that were drafted by the White House’s Breitbart wing — and no one else.
• Stood by as his top advisers leaked like a sieve.
• Declared that his election had restored American democracy, in an angry, authoritarian inaugural address.
• Replaced the White House website’s page on climate change with a vow to drill for oil on federal lands.
• Defamed a hero of the civil-rights movement in a series of racist tweets.
• Suggested that America’s intelligence agencies might be turning the United States into something akin to Nazi Germany.
• Allowed his secretary of State nominee to pledge that America would block China’s access to its disputed islands in the South China Sea — a promise that, if kept, would almost certainly mean war.
• Named his son-in-law a senior White House adviser, in defiance of norms (and, very likely, laws) against nepotism.
• Called NATO obsolete.

As President Elect

• Repeatedly denigrated America’s intelligence agencies, then leaked plans to downsize them.
• Trump then falsely claimed that his intelligence briefing on Russian hacking had been delayed — and suggested that this was because the CIA needed more time to fabricate “intelligence.”
• Declared his openness to reviving a nuclear arms race.
• Disparaged the sitting American president, while praising a hostile foreign autocrat.
• Named a billionaire investor — with an enormous, personal financial interest in deregulating certain sectors of the economy — as his special adviser on regulatory reform.
• Declared the American intelligence community to be inherently untrustworthy, after it produced information that he did not like.
• Said he would continue skipping daily intelligence briefings when he becomes president because he’s smart enough to get by without them.
• Said he doesn’t know why he should be bound by the One China Policy.
• Invited his adult sons — who are slated to run the Trump Organization— to a policy meeting with the leading lights of Silicon Valley.
• Picked a man who once tried to call for the abolition of the Energy Department — but couldn’t remember the department’s name — as secretary of Energy.
• Named his bankruptcy lawyer — who thinks liberal Jews are “worse” than Nazi collaborators — as his pick for ambassador to Israel.
• Provoked heightened diplomatic tensions with two nuclear-armed states.
• Defended the propriety of mass murder as an anti-drug policy.
• Handed the Environmental Protection Agency to a climate denialist.
• Attacked a local labor leader for calling attention to his lies.
• Handed the Labor Department to a serial violator of labor law.
• Baselessly accused a private company of ripping off the government, shortly after the CEO of that company criticized his trade policies.
• Questioned the legitimacy of the election he just won.
• Appointed Ben Carson secretary of Housing and Urban Development — despite the fact that Carson has no relevant experience and recently declared himself unqualified for any cabinet position.
• Allowed his D.C. hotel to actively court the patronage of foreign diplomats.
• Invited the manager of his blind trust onto a phone call with the president of Argentina.
• Met with Indian business partners who have publicly declared their intention to capitalize on his status as president-elect.
• Tried to coerce Britain into appointing a right-wing extremist as its ambassador to the United States.
• Berated the media at a closed-door meeting for publishing unflattering photos of his double chin.
• Criticized the cast of a Broadway musical for asking the vice-president to work on behalf of all Americans.
• The president-elect decided that the case against his defunct “university” was strong enough for him to accept a $25 million settlement.
• Admitted that his charity was guilty of self-dealing.
• Derided protestors as paid professionals whose acts of free speech are fundamentally “unfair.”
• Invited the manager of his “blind trust” to a meeting with the prime minister of Japan.
• Assembled a team of racists to lead his White House.
• Took credit for the fact that Ford will not be relocating a plant to Mexico (which they never had any intention of relocating to Mexico).
• Declared America’s leading newspaper a “failing” institution.
• Took calls from foreign leaders on unsecured phone lines, without consulting the State Department.
• Referred to his White House transition as though it were the next season of The Apprentice.

[SkStu]

Ok. Ignoring the obvious hyperbole and hysteria in the perspective above, are you interested in and do you pursue other perspectives on what he has done? Or are you only interested in snippets that will confirm your bias? Sincerely.

As I've said before I held very negative opinions of Trump (certainly as a person and quite a lot as a policy maker) up until last summer and I started digging into Wikileaks and discovered other media and blogger perspectives. Wikileaks exposed the corruption and collusion that is prevalent in Washington that none of us should be willing to tolerate - even as outsiders. The destruction of Sanders, the hypocrisy of the Democratic Party and its "values" and the worrying conduct of the Clinton Foundation. It really opened my eyes. It caused me to question what I was reading and watching that portrayed the left (my left) as angels and Trump and the Republican Party as the devil incarnate. With that lens, I sought out more information. Some garbage and some good.

As policies, there's not a whole lot wrong with what Trump is pushing forward. Security, safety and borders are worthwhile discussions and debates for US citizens to have. The rise of Islamic extremism in Europe and North America is worthy of discussing and debating. I don't think open borders are a good thing and I think that extreme vetting from terrorist producing nations is reasonable if done correctly. However, it is the behaviour of the left and the screeching and wailing of bitter losers and the demonstrations that are orchestrated and funded by those with a globalist agenda that really makes me think that they (the big "they") have another reason to fear Trump. I find the prospects of globalism and open borders to be quite frightening.

[Wolfman]

No it hasn't. Our news, as recently as the 90's, was far more diverse and decentralized. In fact, it was night and day.

Trump has already done more in a month than previous administrations did in a term. You mightn't like it all (or any) and that's fine too.

Like what, acting like a complete tool?

[SkStu]

Are you actually going to post anything that doesn't just amount to Trump being a big meany?

[Wolfman]

In the unlikely event of him not being a moron, I'll say so!!

[SkStu]

Deal!

[Real ale Madrid]

Ok. Ignoring the obvious hyperbole and hysteria in the perspective above, are you interested in and do you pursue other perspectives on what he has done? Or are you only interested in snippets that will confirm your bias? Sincerely.


I could accuse you of the same in fairness Stu - you rubbish basically every source on here except your own.



As I've said before I held very negative opinions of Trump (certainly as a person and quite a lot as a policy maker) up until last summer and I started digging into Wikileaks and discovered other media and blogger perspectives. Wikileaks exposed the corruption and collusion that is prevalent in Washington that none of us should be willing to tolerate - even as outsiders. The destruction of Sanders, the hypocrisy of the Democratic Party and its "values" and the worrying conduct of the Clinton Foundation. It really opened my eyes. It caused me to question what I was reading and watching that portrayed the left (my left) as angels and Trump and the Republican Party as the devil incarnate. With that lens, I sought out more information. Some garbage and some good.


Don't 100% agree with you but I'm with you until this point. Understandable point of view.



As policies, there's not a whole lot wrong with what Trump is pushing forward. Security, safety and borders are worthwhile discussions and debates for US citizens to have. The rise of Islamic extremism in Europe and North America is worthy of discussing and debating. I don't think open borders are a good thing and I think that extreme vetting from terrorist producing nations is reasonable if done correctly.

Fundamentally disagree with everything here apart from the bit in bold- it is worth a discussion - discussion / debate fine, but there is little evidence to suggest the risk is so extreme that closed borders are required given that the US is virtually the most difficult country in the world at this stage to pass through the refugee process anyway. Again to re-emphasise this is merely Trump playing to his kind of people. The worry is if, God forbid, there is a major incident in the US - weather it is perpetrated by an immigrant or just another radicalized US citizen- it will be used as an excuse to give Trump the type of power he is looking for through these EO's. That would be a disaster.


However, it is the behavior of the left and the screeching and wailing of bitter losers and the demonstrations that are orchestrated and funded by those with a globalist agenda that really makes me think that they (the big "they") have another reason to fear Trump. I find the prospects of globalism and open borders to be quite frightening.

"They" are not out to get you SkStu - well its only 1 person and its not who you think? I'm not really sure why this behavior irks you so much - surely its reactionary wailing to Trump himself. He's not so much as looking for common ground on anything so far. Maybe there would be less wailing if he wasn't insulting everyone who disagrees with him.

[SkStu]

"They" are not out to get you SkStu - well its only 1 person and its not who you think? I'm not really sure why this behavior irks you so much - surely its reactionary wailing to Trump himself. He's not so much as looking for common ground on anything so far. Maybe there would be less wailing if he wasn't insulting everyone who disagrees with him.

Haha class all round in that paragraph RAM! Touché!

I'll respond to the rest of your post later as I'm supposed to be working - I appreciate your thoughts.

[DannyInvincible]

As I've said before I held very negative opinions of Trump (certainly as a person and quite a lot as a policy maker) up until last summer and I started digging into Wikileaks and discovered other media and blogger perspectives. Wikileaks exposed the corruption and collusion that is prevalent in Washington that none of us should be willing to tolerate - even as outsiders. The destruction of Sanders, the hypocrisy of the Democratic Party and its "values" and the worrying conduct of the Clinton Foundation. It really opened my eyes. It caused me to question what I was reading and watching that portrayed the left (my left) as angels and Trump and the Republican Party as the devil incarnate. With that lens, I sought out more information. Some garbage and some good.

One can harbour critical or negative feelings for both Trump and the Washington establishment at the same time.


I don't think open borders are a good thing and I think that extreme vetting from terrorist producing nations is reasonable if done correctly.

What would you classify as a "terrorist-producing nation"?

[SkStu]

One can harbour critical or negative feelings for both Trump and the Washington establishment at the same time.



What would you classify as a "terrorist-producing nation"?

1) correct. However you must also make the connection that a lot of what is being fed to us is through the Washington establishment and the establishment in general. Therefore the criticisms of the likes of Schumer, Warren, McCain and Graham - amongst many others - that is funnelled through the beholden establishment media carries very little weight. Or it should at least be taken with a cellar of salt or viewed with skepticism. I have seen enough from Trump to conclude that he is a buffoon and ignorant on a few policy issues but not convinced that he or his agenda poses the threat to democracy, society and existence that we are being asked to believe is the case. This is far from doomsday and the most contentious issues he has advanced are issues that are important to a significant number of people in the States and as evidenced in Europe too and certainly warrants fulsome debate.

2) loose with language there I suppose. I think there are many nations capable of producing terrorists however individuals coming from countries whose governance systems are dysfunctional or broken and/or whose actions demonstrate a broad anti-West sentiment should be subject to satisfactory screening the extent of which is the right of any sovereign nation to determine.

[Wolfman]

Even though the Americans created that climate.
If only they could hit the right targets, they deserve all that's coming to them!

As for Frump, as long as he speaks like a person with learning difficulties, he's worthy of being ignored as much as possible!

[DannyInvincible]

2) loose with language there I suppose. I think there are many nations capable of producing terrorists however individuals coming from countries whose governance systems are dysfunctional or broken and/or whose actions demonstrate a broad anti-West sentiment should be subject to satisfactory screening the extent of which is the right of any sovereign nation to determine.

In effect, you're saying it is tolerable that all individuals who might happen to originate from or hold citizenship of a particular state that is deemed to have demonstrated (through what sort of actions exactly?) anti-Western sentiment in some way ought to be uniquely prejudiced in their appeals for entry/refuge/asylum?

And you'd presumably exclude, say, Belgium, France or the UK from the list of "terrorist-producing nations", despite these societies evidently producing within their confines obvious threats to the security of their own countries and other Western countries? Anti-Western sentiment, social discontent/exclusion and anger/frustration over official Western policy (that finds intimate refuge and sanctuary in the appeals of profoundly reactionary ideologies) isn't exclusive to non-Western or even suspected anti-Western states. These phenomena also exist and indeed flourish within the West itself.

An interesting and relevant piece here that was written for Salvage in the aftermath of the Paris Bataclan attack: http://salvage.zone/online-exclusive/paris-daesh/


Amid the mainstream jabbering about psychopaths and madness, truly to weaken Daesh, we must understand it. The organisation consists of three main elements. First, the fragments of the Iraqi Ba’athist security state sutured to Sunni ultra-chauvinists in the fight against the US occupation after 2003. It is simple fact this part would not exist without that invasion – carried out, you may recall, to stop terrorist atrocities from occurring again. The second element is the Takfiri Islamists released by the Assad regime in 2011 in a largely successful attempt to undermine the Syrian revolution and win international legitimacy. That bourgeois dictatorship, and its imperialist and sub-imperialist backers Russia and Iran bear no small measure of paternity of the monster. The third element is the international adventurers, colonialists and war fantasists who have taken over large parts of Syria. The Paris attackers seem to come from this group. They are not a product of Islamic society: they are exports from decrepit, anomic Euro-capitalism to the unfortunate people of Syria. Few of them have much knowledge of the Islamic religion – not that that should matter, except it does, when all Muslims are violently conflated with Daesh. In Scotland, Islamic centres are being torched and Muslims advised ‘not to go out alone’. When the ‘centrist’ candidates for the Republican presidential nomination and Rupert Murdoch, the most powerful press baron in history, suggest that only Christian refugees be admitted; when the governors of more than half the US states announce they will exclude Syrian refugees – fleeing from the very regime of institutionalised barbarism that has claimed responsibility for Paris – from entry; when the incoming Europe minister in Poland flatly refuses to honour the EU’s refugee plan, this is the kind of fire with which they play.

More bombing, more ‘anti-radicalisation strategies’? Maybe that will work, for a while. It did, somewhat, with Al-Qaeda and look what followed them. What do you want to be grieving in 2028?

[SkStu]

No I didn't say that.

[DannyInvincible]

I'm cringing listening to Trump cluelessly waffle on about a potential solution to the conflict in the Middle East here (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-38987028):


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPNoZDzYjp8


So I'm looking at two-state and one-state and I like the one that both parties like. I'm very happy with the one that both parties like. I can live with either one. I thought for a while that two-state looked like it may be the easier of the two. But honestly, if Bibi [Netanyahu] and if the Palestinians - if Israel and the Palestinians are happy - I'm happy with the one they like the best.

What a spoofer. Way out of his depth. Even Netenyahu laughs before ducking his head out of embarrassment for Trump. Desperate stuff that must be utterly terrifying for Palestinians to be hearing. Hard to believe it's real.

[Wolfman]

There's going to be similar every day he's in office, how long before they send for the men in white coats or take out this simpleton?

[geysir]

I see Trump claimed that he can bring down the price of the wall/fence after news broke that it would cost something >US$20bn.
It's good that Trump is thinking to reduce costs for the USA taxpayer.
Oopps...... is that the US taxpayer or the Mexican taxpayer is going to reap the benefit of Trump's resolve to bring the cost down to something less than twice as much as previous costed?
In another worrying development, Trump has announced in a recent lengthy press conference that he has some more original and innovative ideas up his sleeve to reduce costs, as part of the crackdown on illegals he resolves to strip illegal emigrants from Mexico and elsewhere of their valuables, such as extra clothes, suitcases, jewelry, including gold fillings and hair. That's the information that was given.

[Charlie Darwin]

Trump seems to be satisfying his base so far, which I suspect is all that really matters for now. The real test for Trump won't be talking gibberish in every press conference but when he has an actual issue of international importance to deal with and there is some sort of consequence to what he does for the people that elected him.

[Real ale Madrid]

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/832555987299082242

[Real ale Madrid]

Say what you want about Trump – but President Pence is going to be difficult enough to say repeatedly. President Pence preaches party politics as preposterous.

[geysir]

Trump seems to be satisfying his base so far, which I suspect is all that really matters for now. The real test for Trump won't be talking gibberish in every press conference but when he has an actual issue of international importance to deal with and there is some sort of consequence to what he does for the people that elected him.
I'd say it's more that Trump's behavior does not disturb his base, but he has more on his agenda than just to satisfy them. The motivation for his actions at present are not with the purpose of satisfying his base.
The goal at present is more to avoid press scrutiny questions altogether, avoid having to do it, humiliate the press with new terms of abuse and repeat them ad nauseum.
About the only valid checks and balances existing on White House actions are with the media and the courts, the White House now shout and scream abuse at them, that's a precursor to diminishing the press' ability to scrutinise and the legitimacy of the courts to judge the president's actions.
The present state of affairs can't go on indefinitely.
How many time can Trump reply when caught out on a blatant lie, "that was the information I was given at the time" "now lets move on and stop being hysterical"
The first step Goebbels took after the German Nazi party pushed themselves into power was to exert control over the news media. Trump can't do the same but he can do it differently and can achieve a similar effect.

[Charlie Darwin]

I'd say it's more that Trump's behavior does not disturb his base, but he has more on his agenda than just to satisfy them. The motivation for his actions at present are not with the purpose of satisfying his base.
The goal at present is more to avoid press scrutiny questions altogether, avoid having to do it, humiliate the press with new terms of abuse and repeat them ad nauseum.
About the only valid checks and balances existing on White House actions are with the media and the courts, the White House now shout and scream abuse at them, that's a precursor to diminishing the press' ability to scrutinise and the legitimacy of the courts to judge the president's actions.
The present state of affairs can't go on indefinitely.
How many time can Trump reply when caught out on a blatant lie, "that was the information I was given at the time" "now lets move on and stop being hysterical"
The first step Goebbels took after the German Nazi party pushed themselves into power was to exert control over the news media. Trump can't do the same but he can do it differently and can achieve a similar effect.
He's now collecting donations to fund a battle with the media: https://twitter.com/DonBeababy/status/832607404332244992

[geysir]

Hitler in his speeches and Mein Kampf, carefully and with great deliberation plagiarised whole lines/passages from Henrik Ibsen's dramas, including Dr.Thomas Stockmann in An Enemy of the People (http://ibsen.nb.no/id/495.0), the same lines Trump is now using.


Ibsen and Hitler: The Playwright, The Plagiarist,
(http://njjewishnews.com/njjn.com/101206/ltAssertingHitlers.html)
While the author goes overboard with some of his wilder theories, nevertheless 'his exhaustive research has discovered that over decades Hitler copied passages, phrases, metaphors, and themes from Ibsen’s writings and incorporated them into his speeches, his politics, and his personal life.'

Stockmann who was branded an enemy of the people had warned local people that 'germs were contaminating the water supply thus threatening the town's tourist trade'
In Hitler's speeches the Jews were the germs threatening the health of the German nation
or Goebbels "Each Jew is a sworn enemy of the German people"

The Stalin era accusation being branded an "enemy of the people" was a death sentence or 'gulaged' for life.

Trump "The fake news media .....is the enemy of the people"

[Eminence Grise]

Trump references last Friday's terror attack in Sweden. (Nope, me neither.)
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/feb/19/sweden-trump-cites-non-existent-terror-attack

I thought this was in The New Yorker's humour section. Now I'm not so sure.
http://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/putin-starting-to-wonder-if-his-puppets-are-smart-enough-to-pull-this-off

[geysir]

I echo Gary Lineker's tweeted sentiments,
"thoughts are all with everyone in Sweden at this difficult time"

[geysir]

In a radical new development

Trump accuses 'dishonest media' of fake news at campaign rally