Republic of Ireland v. Wales - Friday, 24th March 2017 - World Cup 2018 Qualifier

[DeLorean]

Come off it. He's (Brady) a first team player and nobody would have batted an eyelid if he wasn't named in the squad when he's suspended for the most important game, I was surprised when he was.

It's impressive that he's in Dublin right now and part of the squad when he doesn't have to be.

I don't need to come off anything, he's fit, he's selected, he's probably playing. Who says he doesn't have to be there? Have you some sort of evidence that Martin O'Neill gave him the option of remaining in England? I think Brady would have come over even if he did, I believe he's just as committed as you're saying, but this particular situation doesn't emphasise that point.

If Martin O'Neill decided that there was no point in naming him in the squad then fair enough, but I'd find it strange if Brady initiated talks saying that there was no point in him travelling just for a friendly despite being fully fit. I don't see it as a massive display of commitment that he didn't initiate those kind of talks, just professional.

You call the McCarthy & Arter situations apples and oranges despite arguing that they both could have played for us at various times but didn't, that they would have played through the discomfort had they been clubs games, that they'll be back playing without a bother in a few days for their clubs.

The only distinction I can see was the bee in your bonnet about Everton Football Club and their manager putting pressure on McCarthy, but surely he should have been man enough to explain how much he wanted to play if he really was that committed and fitness wasn't really the issue?

How you can call those two situations apples & oranges but think the Brady/Arter thing is a reasonable comparison is truly astounding.

[backstothewall]

I think O'Neill might go with 3 nominally in the middle of the park, but with one of them instructed to man-mark Bale.

[Diggs246]

I don't think he will man mark Bale, but agreed I think he will go with McClean and Walters with mcgeady in the middle

[TrapAPony]

I don't think he will man mark Bale, but agreed I think he will go with McClean and Walters with mcgeady in the middle

He could go with Meyler Whelan and Hendrick in midfield. McGeady and McClean on the wings with Walters up front on his own. Long to be brought off the bench when the Welsh defence is tired.

[nigel-harps1954]

Randolph

Coleman O'Shea Keogh Ward

Walters Whelan Meyler Hendrick McClean

Long

Or

Randolph

Coleman O'Shea Keogh Ward

McGeady Whelan Hendrick McClean

Walters

Long

[liamoo11]

"I would imagine Glenn Whelan playing the role which closes any gaps for Bale. The players around him will provide him simple information to keep an eye on him, and the back four will be communicating 'left shoulder, right shoulder' whenever Bale moves. Whelan's spatial awareness will be vital to keep Wales and Bale away from our goal."

Intersting from Hunt, when a fellow player comes out with that, you have to take note really. Perhaps I've just completely misunderstood Whelan all these years.

It sounded like Skstu was questioning in the sense, who is kelly, not so much was he injured :D

Fair enough and whelan has had an amazing career. To my eyes when whelan plays we drop 10 yards back because whelan doesn't have the pace and mobility of McCarthy to cover the ground which makes it so difficult to get midfield support to our front players.the goal we gave up against Scotland at home is a clear example Of The myth that's gone around about whelans amazing positional sense which is supposed to outweigh all his limitations.no way we can play a high press which definitely suits us with glen anchoring that midfield

[geysir]

Ironic that it's Hunt who comes out with the expert opinion on the spatial awareness of the central midfielder, hard to forget his cameos in that position, I suppose one could say he had an usual approach to his positioning in that space.

[tricky_colour]

Wow with the number of injuries we have it looks like we will have to call off the fixture altogether.

[SkStu]

It sounded like Skstu was questioning in the sense, who is kelly, not so much was he injured :D

No - I've been following Kelly on here. Just wasn't sure if he was injured truly or just pulled out for nefarious reasons. I thought he was 2 or 3G but he seems to have nailed his colours to the mast.

[gastric]

Kelly like others not born in the Irish Republic (Arter, Clark and Elliott among them) really don't care about their adopted country and even have the audacity to go on trips to Dubai. Terrible!:rolleyes:

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

On brief examination it looks like "Towk" is taking issue with Everton and not McCarthy in fairness

Of course.


Which begs the question why Bournemouth are not the brunt of his disdain this time. But that's for another thread at another time. Let's get our focus back on our biggest game of the campaign (in my opinion).

Because Arter pulled out of games this time last year in dubious circumstances and has done so again this time IMO.

McCarthy is making himself available to objections from his club. Arter ruled himself out with a minor calf strain when there was still over a week to prove his fitness like McCarthy, Murphy and Hoolahan.


Kelly like others not born in the Irish Republic (Arter, Clark and Elliott among them) really don't care about their adopted country and even have the audacity to go on trips to Dubai. Terrible!http://foot.ie/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

Who said anything about Kelly, Clark or Elliot?

[DeLorean]

McCarthy is making himself available to objections from his club. Arter ruled himself out with a minor calf strain when there was still over a week to prove his fitness like McCarthy, Murphy and Hoolahan.

The comparison is not between Arter now and McCarthy now, it's obviously between Arter now and McCarthy back then (as that's when you used do all your ranting about McCarthy pulling out of squads despite not being really injured, the implication being that he was being controlled by his club and manager).

Btw... with regards the McCarthy of today, did Everton actually object this time? I only heard Koeman saying this:


I don't know. We know it will be another nine, 10 days (before the game) and the FIFA rule is that they have the possibility to call the player.If they call the player the player will go and they will see how his fitness is at that time.

Despite the war of words previously and Koeman believing McCarthy was overloaded last time he played for us, that's an acceptance, not an objection. Obviously he'd prefer if his player was wrapped in cotton wool but what objections from Everton/Koeman are you referring to this time?

Eddie Howe, on the other hand, said this about Arter's prospect of making the Wales game?


I would have thought there’s no way he’ll play

Far more dismissive of Arter's chances I'm sure even you'll agree?

[tetsujin1979]

ok, we're done with this, move the discussion to Arter's thread, its relevance to the upcoming qualifier is approaching zero

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Eddie Howe, on the other hand, said this about Arter's prospect of making the Wales game?




I would've thought there's no way he'll play

Harry Arter failed a late fitness test for the Swansea game on the 18th, which would suggest he isn't far off a first-team return. The Wales game is on the 24th. The Iceland game is on the 28th. That's a week to prove his fitness for the Wales game and a week and a half to prove his fitness for the Iceland game.

Analysing a player's fitness through scans etc. isn't a one shot deal. James McCarthy has had several scans and as of yesterday he was due to have at least one more.

Daryl Murphy is also carrying an injury but linked up with the squad.

Harry Arter flew to Dubai when he had every chance of at least proving his fitness for the Iceland game.

It's interesting to note that Arter was "desperate" to prove his fitness in the build-up to Euro 2016. Perhaps that's because of the aura of playing in an International tournament, perhaps not, but you can't pick and choose which games you play in or want to participate in.

Edit: Sorry just seen Tets comment now.

[jbyrne]

murphy confirmed out now as well

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

murphy confirmed out now as well

FFS..

I still think Kevin Doyle can do a job off the bench but Daryl has been immense for us since he came on in the Germany game (Belarus excepted).

I suppose this makes MON's job of selecting the first XI easier.

But there's still time for Keogh, O'Shea, Long, McClean or Hendrick to pick up an injury which would be near catastrophic.

[DannyInvincible]

McClean will be exempted from training on Thursday morning (http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/league-of-ireland/sleep-tight-big-man-may-god-bless-you-and-your-family-james-mcclean-on-warrior-ryan-mcbride-35545959.html) in order to attend the funeral of friend and former team-mate Ryan McBride in Derry. The FAI will also be organising a tribute for Ryan (http://www.derryjournal.com/sport/football/derry-city/fai-plan-tribute-to-ryan-mcbride-at-republic-of-ireland-s-world-cup-qualifier-against-wales-1-7873511) at the game on Friday night.

[DannyInvincible]

No - I've been following Kelly on here. Just wasn't sure if he was injured truly or just pulled out for nefarious reasons. I thought he was 2 or 3G but he seems to have nailed his colours to the mast.

Where is Kelly actually from? His Wikipedia says he was born in Ireland, but that's not right, is it? He sounds to have a London accent in this interview from a few years ago:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2m-Td5gVmcU

[Stuttgart88]

Murphy out, McCarthy still a doubt, others resting as precaution.

https://twitter.com/noriordan/status/844141220431609856

[tetsujin1979]

Where is Kelly actually from? His Wikipedia says he was born in Ireland, but that's not right, is it? He sounds to have a London accent in this interview from a few years ago:
He's English-born, according to the independent: http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/international-soccer/irish-messi-liam-kelly-feared-his-one-big-flaw-would-shatter-his-dreams-35527085.html

"I always knew there was a possibility that I could play for Ireland and it is something I was desperate to do,” stated English-born Kelly, who qualifies for Ireland via his Mayo-born grandfather Tony and his Leitrim-born grandmother Mary.

[CraftyToePoke]

Where is Kelly actually from? His Wikipedia says he was born in Ireland, but that's not right, is it? He sounds to have a London accent in this interview from a few years ago:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2m-Td5gVmcU

Look in his thread, I put a piece there lately covering it.

[shakermaker1982]

Our starting 11 on friday is gonna look like a Trap era team.

Randolph

Coleman Keogh O'Shea Ward

McGeady Whelan McCarthy McClean

Long Walters

[DannyInvincible]

An update (kind of) from Roy on McCarthy: https://www.balls.ie/football/irelands-injury-woes-get-even-worse-ahead-friday-nights-crunch-wales-game-361622


James McCarthy didn't train today. If he doesn't join in with the group tomorrow I would say he is very doubtful.

[Bungle]

Our starting 11 on friday is gonna look like a Trap era team.

Randolph

Coleman Keogh O'Shea Ward

McGeady Whelan McCarthy McClean

Long Walters

By and large that team names itself at this stage.

I wonder will he go with 5 in midfield and one up top. There has to be a place for Jeff Hendrick. With McCarthy out, I'd say Hourihane could get in. Walters to start and be a battering ram with Long coming on for the last half hour is a real option.

It's a funny one with our current team. We are missing some players that I like, but you wouldn't say the replacements are of a much poorer standard. I do think we will really miss Brady and I really rate Arter. I think he's a fine player. However, it isn't like the past when you were praying we wouldn't be missing our world class players.

It's actually a fascinating match up (if I wasn't so worried). They have the better starting line up by a little margin - the Bale effect, but we have the better squad. I'd wager that if you picked a mixed eleven, we would edge it 6-5. Even with our injuries, I think it will be fine margins between the teams. My head says a 1-1 draw.

If we do win and if Serbia could drop points in Georgia, then I think that we would want to go full knobhead to **** up going to Russia.

[DannyInvincible]

An update (kind of) from Roy on McCarthy: https://www.balls.ie/football/irelands-injury-woes-get-even-worse-ahead-friday-nights-crunch-wales-game-361622

RTÉ are quoting Roy slightly differently; he's been saying that McCarthy was to do some running (seemingly isolated) today: http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2017/0321/861417-keane-admits-mccarthy-looks-very-doubtful-to-face-wal/


"James didn't train today," the assistant boss said.

"I would say he is very doubtful. I think he is due to do some running today, but if he doesn't join in with the group tomorrow, it'll be very doubtful for him."

[paul_oshea]

Doyle to come on in the last 20 and get a winner, show Martin what he has been missing.

[Stuttgart88]

We are missing some players that I like, but you wouldn't say the replacements are of a much poorer standard. I do think we will really miss Brady and I really rate Arter.O’Shea and Keogh replacing Clark and Duffy is much of a muchness in my opinion. Our CBs were at fault for goals in Moldova, Serbia, Lyon, Bordeaux and Paris with different players being individually culpable. It’s a bit of a work-in-progress position for us so what’s coming in is arguably no worse than what’s going out.

Likewise McCarthy and Arter are good players but not indispensable when Hendrick and Meyler are around. Wes is quality but McGeady is on great form. I’m disappointed Murphy is out but Kevin Doyle is a similar player of a similar standard, maybe even better.

Brady is the guy we’ll really miss I think but the others’ absences deprive us of options and back-up rather than automatically depleting the starting XI, at least from open play. Where we are noticeably weaker is from set-pieces. Brady’s delivery and Clark/Duffy’s aerial threat won’t be easily replaced.

Also, if there’s a team to be missing players against it’s probably best that it’s Wales rather than Austria or Serbia. Not because they’re weak but because they are a British team whose players all of our XI will be used to playing.

[paul_oshea]

Great to hear Roy come out today and even though 9 players out and McCarthy looking doubtful, we are here to win. So refreshing, rarely have we heard it said from an Irish management team, let alone the 6 years or so previously. I love his attitude. Its the difference between winning out games and not.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Clark and Duffy are more of a handful than Keogh and O'Shea in the opposition box. Ward is a tank and has that natural striker's instinct of sticking a leg out in the box to get on the end of an errant ball. I'd be pressing his importance in that regard.

Randolph; Coleman, Keogh, O'Shea, Ward; McGeady, Hendrick, Whelan, McClean; Walters; Long

It's probably between two of Meyler, McGeady and Long.

[Stuttgart88]

I can see at least one of Christie, Pearse, Egan and Hourihane getting on the pitch at some point. I'm still a bit disappointed Doherty and Cunningham aren't in the squad.

Scratch that: I'd forgotten about Gibson (forgivable) and Horgan (much less forgivable).

[Stuttgart88]

Amid all the history research into James McCarthy I've failed to notice a final 23 man squad. Has it been cut yet?

[DeLorean]

Gibson was cut, no?

I can only see Christie getting game time if the unthinkable happens and Coleman hobbles off.

Agree totally on Doherty/Cunningham. We don't even have a proper back up for Ward? O'Shea's left back days are well and truly behind him. Would have definitely made more sense to bring at least one of them instead of a midfielder.

[Stuttgart88]

Answering my own question:

Goalkeepers: Darren Randolph, Keiren Westwood, Colin Doyle

Defenders: Seamus Coleman, Cyrus Christie, Richard Keogh, Alex Pearce, John O'Shea, Andy Boyle, John Egan, Stephen Ward

Midfielders: Aiden McGeady, Glenn Whelan, James McCarthy, Jeff Hendrick, Robbie Brady, Conor Hourihane, David Meyler, Eunan O'Kane, James McClean, Jonathan Hayes, Daryl Horgan, Callum O'Dowda

Forwards: Jonathan Walters, Shane Long, [Daryl Murphy], Kevin Doyle

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

I would've at least brought Doherty instead of Christie.

At least Doherty can cover the two positions.

That would've softened the blow of not calling up Cunny but the two of them being left out is bemusing in the extreme.

[Stuttgart88]

I think MON believes Christie can cover both as well?

[Diggs246]

Assuming McCarthy is out, I think it will be: Randy,
Coleman, O'Shea Keogh, Ward
Whelan Hendricks
Walters McClean
McGeady
Long

[DeLorean]

I'd like to see Meyler ahead of Whelan.

[Diggs246]

Yeah I would go with Meyler too ahead of Whelan, but I think if MON takes a chance on McGeady in the hole off the striker, he will go with the more experienced player in front of the four

[Stuttgart88]

Whelan is nailed on either way I reckon, especially if McCarthy misses out.

[DeLorean]

Whelan is nailed on either way I reckon, especially if McCarthy misses out.

You're probably right, although I'm not as sure if McCarthy makes it. I think McCarthy/Hendrick might be O'Neill's preferred pairing since the Euros, but he's only had one opportunity to play them together. McCarthy missed Belgrade and Vienna with injuries, Hendrick miss Chisinau through suspension. Meyler's accomplished performance against Austria is clouding things slightly in my mind also but, yeah, you'd have to assume O'Neill will go with Whelan in the circumstances.

[Olé Olé]

You're probably right, although I'm not as sure if McCarthy makes it. I think McCarthy/Hendrick might be O'Neill's preferred pairing since the Euros, but he's only had one opportunity to play them together. McCarthy missed Belgrade and Vienna with injuries, Hendrick miss Chisinau through suspension. Meyler's accomplished performance against Austria is clouding things slightly in my mind also but, yeah, you'd have to assume O'Neill will go with Whelan in the circumstances.

Do people think it's more likely we'll see two holding midfielders and Hendrick or one holding midfielder and Hendrick beside them? It's a tough one. Playing the latter allows us to start McGeady at 10, which also works if we have a midfield diamond but with Whelan at the base and Hendrick on the right I'm not sure who fits on the left. Playing the former means you have Whelan and (probably) Meyler at the base with McGeady or Walters on one wing, McClean on the other, Hendrick at 8 and a half and Long or Walters up front.

The more I think about it I'm predicting:
Randolph
Coleman O'Shea Keogh Ward
Meyler Whelan
Hendrick
McGeady McClean
Walters

[TrapAPony]

The more I think about it I'm predicting:
Randolph
Coleman O'Shea Keogh Ward
Meyler Whelan
Hendrick
McGeady McClean
Walters

That is exactly what I think. A 5 man midfield to make it difficult for Bale to do damage. Long, Horgan and/or O'Dowda to come on or Pearce if we need a defender. O'Kane will probably come on instead of Hourihane too if we need a change at midfield. Overall, we have enough options available to us to get a result.

[nigel-harps1954]

Horgan to come on and score a famous winner in the 85th minute.

I'd be happy enough with that.

Also, a lot of people talking about defensive problems, and while it would be a totally out of the blue choice, Andy Boyle is probably one of the strongest ball playing centre halves in the squad.

[DannyInvincible]

McClean will wear a number 5 jersey (http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2017/0321/861543-james-mcclean-to-pay-special-tribute-to-ryan-mcbride/) on Friday in tribute to Ryan McBride.

[backstothewall]

McClean will wear a number 5 jersey (http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2017/0321/861543-james-mcclean-to-pay-special-tribute-to-ryan-mcbride/) on Friday in tribute to Ryan McBride.

Anything special being planned by the singing section to mark this?

[DannyInvincible]

Anything special being planned by the singing section to mark this?

There's to be a minute of applause in the fifth minute.

[DannyInvincible]

Chris Coleman discusses his father's Dublin roots and his declining of an invite to represent Ireland during his playing days: https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2017/0321/861567-emotional-return-to-dublin-for-wales-boss-coleman/


Wales manager Chris Coleman's World Cup visit to Dublin will be full of emotion as he returns to the home city of his late father Paddy.

Vital points on the road to Russia 2018 will be at stake on Friday with third-placed Wales seeking to cut the four-point gap on Group D leaders the Republic of Ireland.

But the game also holds special significance for Coleman as, three years ago, he scattered his father's ashes in the River Liffey.... alongside a pint of Guinness.

"Throwing a pint of Guinness into the Liffey (with the ashes) is a done thing there, especially where he was from in the East Wall of Dublin," Coleman said.

"We did it next to the Brazen Head pub, which dates back to 1198, and is the oldest pub in Ireland.

"He always said make sure you do it there. It was his request. But if I'm honest I did have a little drop of Guinness first... it was eight euros a pint!

"My two sisters and Charlotte (Coleman's television presenter wife) were with me when we did it. It was incredibly poignant."

Coleman senior left Dublin and moved to Swansea at the age of 20, and it was there Chris was born and grew up.

...

But Coleman revealed he did attract Ireland's interest as a young player.

"There was talk about when Jackie Charlton was manager of the Republic and a tentative phone call came my way," Coleman said.

"But my dad always pushed me to play for Wales. I started playing football at the age of seven and he guided me, he never raised his voice.

"I've watched parents sometimes on the touchlines at youth games and they are screaming and shouting, which is not the way to go.

"But he was the opposite to that. He was always a quiet talker - he never lost his Dublin accent - but he was massive for me as a youngster."

Coleman's success with Wales is tinged with sadness as his father never saw him take the country to the European Championship in France.

And Coleman says his father would have been so proud to see him standing on the Aviva Stadium touch-line as the Wales manager.

"I used to take him back to Dublin most summers for a few days," Coleman said. "He would have a little roam around where he was brought up.

"He loved football and would have loved this - he would have been ecstatic."

[gastric]

Chris Coleman discusses his father's Dublin roots and his declining of an invite to represent Ireland during his playing days: https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2017/0321/861567-emotional-return-to-dublin-for-wales-boss-coleman/

Thanks Danny, love these anecdotes, another one who got away. A bit of a mean git though!

[Stuttgart88]

McClean will wear a number 5 jersey (http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2017/0321/861543-james-mcclean-to-pay-special-tribute-to-ryan-mcbride/) on Friday in tribute to Ryan McBride.

I can feel a red card coming on.

[Olé Olé]

Saw this in another article recently but the above is more poignant alright.

Had never realised his old man was Irish. I guess it's a lot harder to want to be an Irish international when you're from Swansea where there's less of an Irish community. Places like Liverpool, Glasgow, London and Manchester lend themselves more to parents living in an Irish community which means there's a stronger reminder or re-enforcement of identity.

That said, didn't Martin Keown say his father advised him to play for England too? To give back to the country that gave them so much? Could be a similar sentiment that of Coleman senior.