Kevin Myers-Good Journalist or 'Person of Questionalbe Origin'?

[joeSoap]

And what mindset would that be, exactly?

Obviously the type that encourages welfare fraud, and neglect of children.

[patsh]

Obviously the type that encourages welfare fraud, and neglect of children.
Gee, you are some man. You can figure out that I'm a criminal child abuser from my posts, eh?

Now, I can make a fairly certain guess to the type of person you are, and intelligent debate certainly is not part of that type.

[Jim Smith]

If she was aware that she would have no state benefits for the child, then I doubt very much she'd put herself in the position in the first place, or consider termination.
And how would you deal with an accidental pregnancy where the mother was genuinely unable to provide? Take the child into care? Force a termination? Leave them to die?

[Macy]

And how would you deal with an accidental pregnancy where the mother was genuinely unable to provide? Take the child into care? Force a termination? Leave them to die?
I think it would be the best for the Church to set up "homes" for these women, make them work and give their baby up for adoption. At least we wouldn't have to see the selfish wenches and their bástard children would be brought up in a proper home.

[razor]

And what mindset would that be, exactly?
A tad delusionist if you think these people don't exist in Irish society today.
And I suppose there is the mindset fair play if they can get away with it but I can't say its mine.


must VERYBODY be judged on your hearsay?
Of course not, surely he can cite specific cases without saying everyones up to no good.

[patsh]

A tad delusionist if you think these people don't exist in Irish society today.
And I suppose there is the mindset fair play if they can get away with it but I can't say its mine.


Of course not, surely he can cite specific cases without saying everyones up to no good.
There is a lot of delusion around, but it belongs to the paranoics that believe that young girls get pregnant so they can get a few euro a week. It simply doesn't happen on the scale that some would believe. Anybody can point to an odd case here and there, but even then, it's only their impression about what is happening, they don't know the actual facts.
Just becuase a few people can cite one case, it doesn't mean it's rampant. Indeed, what facts do exist about Ireland, show that the opposite is happening. Births to teenager's have been dropping since the late 80's so that the total number of these births is under 3% now.
"Single" parents include in their statistics, women who are widows, divorced, those living with their partners but not married and 15% are single fathers.

So when somebody like Myers and Walsh come along and pretend that they are simply starting a debate, the first thing they might do is get what figures they can, and then come up with something sensible to say. Of course its very easy to just spew some bile around the place, because the people who want to believe that bullsh*t are numerous.

Ther are people who take advantage of whatever benefits they can get, but that happens in every walk of life. For instance, very, very rich people get away with paying no tax, but enjoy all the infrastructure services paid for by taxpayers. Why is Walsh not calling for an investigation and a debate about that? Land speculators are making enormous sums of money, which must be paid for by housebuyers, but why doesn't Myers rant about these people? (e.g a group of doctors, lawyers and others made €53 MILLION profit in 4 years on a piece of land in Dublin recently. This will add €200,000 to the asking price of every house)

These are 2 social issues that cost the state far more in term of money and social cohesion than the small number of women who may possibly think that getting pregnant will put them on the "gravy train". Why is there no ranting columns about this in the Times or lectures in UCC?

It is a MYTH that girls and young women are getting pregnant becuase it will mean the good life for them. Before anyone starts ranting on about the one case they have HEARD of, they should sit down, have a little think about what exactly it is they are claiming, do the maths, and have some serious reflection on this topic. There are always ways to improve every system, but lets have a sensible debate about this, not base everything on what you might have heard or been shown by someone else, or start calling people names because you can't come up with anything sensible to say yourself.

[razor]

Pat, All I was saying is that this does exist, I didn't say it was the biggest problem that exists in Ireland today, its far from it. But its the topic Myers chose to bring up, He could have done better by attacking the more pressing issues this viciously but he didn't.
There are people riding the State from all walks of life and every single one of them p*ss me off but if the government won't do anything about it....

[joeSoap]

It is a MYTH that girls and young women are getting pregnant becuase it will mean the good life for them. Before anyone starts ranting on about the one case they have HEARD of, they should sit down, have a little think about what exactly it is they are claiming, do the maths, and have some serious reflection on this topic. There are always ways to improve every system, but lets have a sensible debate about this, not base everything on what you might have heard or been shown by someone else, or start calling people names because you can't come up with anything sensible to say yourself.

Please stop taking the moral high ground with me, I am only stating my opinions here about a scenario told to me by one of my best friends, who I believe and trust totally. It is not something I 'HEARD' of as you put it, but something I was told by someone in authority who I believe, so if you want to imply that I am a liar, just have the balls to come out with it and call it to me, rather than glossing over it with your inane rhetoric.

On the maths side of it, if someone puts the majority of €168 a week into the credit union, you can borrow up to €4000 every three months, once you keep up the payments. In the case I am referring to this pays for holidays and fancy clothes, not nappies, school uniforms, schoolbooks,or other 'vitals' needed. Don't tell me thats not neglect of both the child and the welfare money she's getting to look after that child. Great economics, and no law breaker, but disgustingly immoral.

[patsh]

Pat, All I was saying is that this does exist, I didn't say it was the biggest problem that exists in Ireland today, its far from it. But its the topic Myers chose to bring up, He could have done better by attacking the more pressing issues this viciously but he didn't.
There are people riding the State from all walks of life and every single one of them p*ss me off but if the government won't do anything about it....
And I agree with you. It does exist, and I'm only poiniting out that getting reform in this area has made made even more difficult by the antics of Walsh and Myers. So I guess we really agree, just went the long way round to seeing that....;)